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Cannons are grossly over powered

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I have Q'd up for PVP 6 or 7 times tonight and lost every match. I fly a recon science vessel. What ive found is that cannons are grossly over powered.

Escorts fly in, pummel you till your destroyed (which isnt long as cannons are so quick to recharge, or rapid fire etc). You have little time to react. you have nothing to fight back with. Viral matrix only works from a narrow front arc so you cant stun them to get away. Ive just started taking my hands off the keyboard, because, frankly, whats the point?

Then you respawn fly back in and it happens again. Now cryptic Whats the point of having different ship types and weapon types if cannons can **** you up in seconds?

If anyone has some tactics for defence against cannons i welcome it. But i really wont be playing PVP again.

I think a system needs to be created, that checks and balances each weapon. Sorry for the childish reference, but like in pokemon! If you send out a water type against and electric type it would end badly. But if you choose ground you'd be fine.

So something like, A shield type that is 50% resistant to cannon fire, but is 50% susceptible to beams.

A science buff that takes some of the wallop out of a cannon. etc.

Or something to balance out beams, something akin to rapid fire. Because beam overload and fire at will dont cut it!

Just my whinge for the day. Ta Ta
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mike_86 wrote:
    I have Q'd up for PVP 6 or 7 times tonight and lost every match. I fly a recon science vessel. What ive found is that cannons are grossly over powered.

    Escorts fly in, pummel you till your destroyed (which isnt long as cannons are so quick to recharge, or rapid fire etc). You have little time to react. you have nothing to fight back with. Viral matrix only works from a narrow front arc so you cant stun them to get away. Ive just started taking my hands off the keyboard, because, frankly, whats the point?

    Then you respawn fly back in and it happens again. Now cryptic Whats the point of having different ship types and weapon types if cannons can **** you up in seconds?

    If anyone has some tactics for defence against cannons i welcome it. But i really wont be playing PVP again.

    I think a system needs to be created, that checks and balances each weapon. Sorry for the childish reference, but like in pokemon! If you send out a water type against and electric type it would end badly. But if you choose ground you'd be fine.

    So something like, A shield type that is 50% resistant to cannon fire, but is 50% susceptible to beams.

    A science buff that takes some of the wallop out of a cannon. etc.

    Or something to balance out beams, something akin to rapid fire. Because beam overload and fire at will dont cut it!

    Just my whinge for the day. Ta Ta

    Just use some cannons yourself ;)

    Tractor beam them, sub-target their weapon systems or engines or Aux...use your abilities...

    If you solely rely on VM then you will continue to lose.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mike_86 wrote:
    Itears

    Take this teddy bear and show us where the big bad tactical officer touched you.....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Escorts have weak shields though. If you're getting pounded by them, try something else. Like getting rid of their shields or something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    novafluxx wrote: »
    Just use some cannons yourself ;)

    Tractor beam them, sub-target their weapon systems or engines or Aux...use your abilities...

    If you solely rely on VM then you will continue to lose.

    I dont want to use cannons, and i shouldnt have too!! Especially since i cant use the HC OR DHC only the normal cannons.

    I do use my abilities, targetting shields and weapons etc. Ive never relied on VM its just something that comes in handy like the rest of the skills.

    After playing PVP, i actually think i prefer starfleet commands fight style. More like a naval engagement rather that a dog fight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mikotren wrote:
    Take this teddy bear and show us where the big bad tactical officer touched you.....

    Funniest post ever!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mike_86 wrote:
    I have Q'd up for PVP 6 or 7 times tonight and lost every match. I fly a recon science vessel. What ive found is that cannons are grossly over powered.

    Escorts fly in, pummel you till your destroyed (which isnt long as cannons are so quick to recharge, or rapid fire etc). You have little time to react. you have nothing to fight back with. Viral matrix only works from a narrow front arc so you cant stun them to get away. Ive just started taking my hands off the keyboard, because, frankly, whats the point?

    Then you respawn fly back in and it happens again. Now cryptic Whats the point of having different ship types and weapon types if cannons can **** you up in seconds?

    If anyone has some tactics for defence against cannons i welcome it. But i really wont be playing PVP again.

    I think a system needs to be created, that checks and balances each weapon. Sorry for the childish reference, but like in pokemon! If you send out a water type against and electric type it would end badly. But if you choose ground you'd be fine.

    So something like, A shield type that is 50% resistant to cannon fire, but is 50% susceptible to beams.

    A science buff that takes some of the wallop out of a cannon. etc.

    Or something to balance out beams, something akin to rapid fire. Because beam overload and fire at will dont cut it!

    Just my whinge for the day. Ta Ta

    Someone else who can't be bothered to l2p.

    Vitral Matrix isn't the only thing you can hit them with, you know. There's other skills at lower ranks quite as effective, and NOT limited by frontal arc...

    Jam Sensors and Scramble Sensors, for example. They can't pound on what they can't target..when they use Science Team for one, hit 'em with the other. THEN:

    Target Subsystem: Weapons while they can't target ytou, and pound away yourself. Couple of HYUT 3 spreads later and he's toast.

    Take ir from a RA5 Escort captain - there's all sorts of ways to mess with Escorts - if you think outside of Viral Matrix.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ...your...a science...ship and you lost to that?

    Im sorry but...what?

    Have you never heard of disabling engines? weapons? Maybe you targetted shields?

    No?

    ...okay then.

    But in all seriousness a science ship should be able to take out anything that comes at it. You have strong shields, you have abilitys which can effectively render the enemy unable to move...

    Cannons are a closer range weapon to do damage. You simply broadside with target engines/weapons, and disable subsystems one by one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Callasan wrote: »
    Someone else who can't be bothered to l2p.

    Im going to ignore that you arrogant f*(kwit.

    Oh look, Someone else who cant learn basic manors.
    Kitsunami wrote: »
    ...your...a science...ship and you lost to that?

    Im sorry but...what?

    Have you never heard of disabling engines? weapons? Maybe you targetted shields?

    No?

    ...okay then.

    But in all seriousness a science ship should be able to take out anything that comes at it. You have strong shields, you have abilitys which can effectively render the enemy unable to move...

    Cannons are a closer range weapon to do damage. You simply broadside with target engines/weapons, and disable subsystems one by one.

    One on one it would be fine, but in a situation where you have 2 fleet escorts on you, both pummelling you, its had to respond in anymeaningfull way for the 15 seconds that your left standing before you pop.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mike_86 wrote:
    Im going to ignore that you arrogant f*(kwit.

    Oh look, Someone else who cant learn basic manors.



    One on one it would be fine, but in a situation where you have 2 fleet escorts on you, both pummelling you, its had to respond in anymeaningfull way for the 15 seconds that your left standing before you pop.

    LOL
    You think since you science you should be able to take on 2 tac's at once?

    I laugh in your general direction, sir.

    and I dont even play the game anymore haha

    also it's" manners"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OoOOoOoOoOoo... moar "Fight Club for Nerdz*™" RAGE!

    Let's see if I can remember the quote correctly -

    "Cryptic, this is Rock, nerf paper please, scissors is fine." ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mikotren wrote:
    LOL
    You think since you science you should be able to take on 2 tac's at once?

    I laugh in your general direction, sir.

    and I dont even play the game anymore haha

    also it's" manners"

    No Im not saying i want to take them on, blah blah blah. What im saying is i dont want to go pop withing 15 seconds of being set upon.

    Perhaps a 1v1 pvp system should be introduced....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    As a fleet escort captain myself, I have to agree with the others that are basically telling you not to rely too heavily upon a single skill.

    We have weak shields but a decent turning rate. But guess what? Most of us don’t use beam arrays, so we can’t broadside. Sure, we have turrets but those never do any major damage – just constant damage. That’s one reason I keep at least one torp in the aft… to keep some sort of damage up while I turn my bloody nose away from you.

    We do have one thing that you may not be aware of… Attack Pattern Omega III. Not only does it raise our attack power, etc. AND can be stacked onto Attack Pattern Alpha III, but it keeps us from falling victim to immobilization powers other than… meh, I can’t remember the name of it (someone will fill it in).

    Even better? It can be activated even AFTER you freeze me. I’ll just shake it off and keep coming.

    Your job, if you want to survive a one on one with an escort is simple: keep me from targeting you. Jam sensors, scramble, etc but don’t let me get a lock on you because I’ll hit you with Jam Sensors, Fire on my Mark, one or both attack patterns, rapid fire and a single torp… by the time your shields fail I’ve let loose a High Yield torp salvo (4 torps) and maybe even scatter volley for additional damage. By the time jam sensors II wears off you’re either dead or down below 10% hull strength.

    MY job is to make that happen. YOUR job is to keep that from happening. As you can see, I use 6-7 skills.. more if I need to get away and throw in evasive maneuvers or ramming speed to gain distance from you. If I relied only on a single skill, you’d probably kill me every damned time.

    As a science ship you have some impressive powers. Train your BOs. Learn these skills. Practice in PvP – yes, you will die. We all do. But if you get to the point you can take down 2-3 escorts before you go down, you’re doing something right!

    Good luck.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    As an escort captain - I was getting pwned by cruiser and science vessels in space PVP on Tribble during the play with the dev's last friday and I was using all purple gear! Sure I killed quite a few - but I died just as many times as I tallied a kill.

    In any event - the powers team will be continually adjusting - so if you think things are out of whack - please continue to bring this stuff up - especially in the Tribble Test Server forums.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mike_86 wrote:
    Im going to ignore that you arrogant <redacted due to violation of Cryptic board policy>

    Oh look, Someone else who cant learn basic manners.

    Fixed it for ya.

    And, given what you mentioned in a later message, that you're trying to take on TWO T5 escorts with a science ship....

    Ya, you need to l2p.

    You're buffs/debuffs, they're set up for DPS. UNLESS YOU DEBUFF THEM, they are going to eat you alive. And since you can only really debuff one at a time, in that situation you have no hope of winning. Even if it was two cruisers you'd have no hope, because of that "one ship at a time" limitation. Viral Matrix isn't going to help you - NOTHING WILL in a 2v1 like that.

    I also notice how you ignore what you were told - how you can beat a escort 1v1 WITHOUT Viral Matrix - and just triggered on one comment. Well, sorry you feel that way (not really) - your response says loads about you, NONE of which I'm going in to here.

    To sum up: I'm not gonna waste my time ianswering you anymore - you have shown for the world to see how "highstrung" you are. (to put it politely).

    Good day to you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Preirin wrote:
    As a fleet escort captain myself, I have to agree with the others that are basically telling you not to rely too heavily upon a single skill.

    We have weak shields but a decent turning rate. But guess what? Most of us don’t use beam arrays, so we can’t broadside. Sure, we have turrets but those never do any major damage – just constant damage. That’s one reason I keep at least one torp in the aft… to keep some sort of damage up while I turn my bloody nose away from you.

    We do have one thing that you may not be aware of… Attack Pattern Omega III. Not only does it raise our attack power, etc. AND can be stacked onto Attack Pattern Alpha III, but it keeps us from falling victim to immobilization powers other than… meh, I can’t remember the name of it (someone will fill it in).

    Even better? It can be activated even AFTER you freeze me. I’ll just shake it off and keep coming.

    Your job, if you want to survive a one on one with an escort is simple: keep me from targeting you. Jam sensors, scramble, etc but don’t let me get a lock on you because I’ll hit you with Jam Sensors, Fire on my Mark, one or both attack patterns, rapid fire and a single torp… by the time your shields fail I’ve let loose a High Yield torp salvo (4 torps) and maybe even scatter volley for additional damage. By the time jam sensors II wears off you’re either dead or down below 10% hull strength.

    MY job is to make that happen. YOUR job is to keep that from happening. As you can see, I use 6-7 skills.. more if I need to get away and throw in evasive maneuvers or ramming speed to gain distance from you. If I relied only on a single skill, you’d probably kill me every damned time.

    As a science ship you have some impressive powers. Train your BOs. Learn these skills. Practice in PvP – yes, you will die. We all do. But if you get to the point you can take down 2-3 escorts before you go down, you’re doing something right!

    Good luck.


    Oooh Constructive :D Thank you very much! I will have a look :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You mention VM once and everyone assumes its the only skill you use *rolls eyes*
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OT: "Career Officer" title for lifers is a FORUM PERK too?

    Lucky....

    EDIT: Subnuclonic beam.. SNB.. ort something like that. That's the power I was thinking of that we can't shake.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mike_86 wrote:
    Im going to ignore that you arrogant f*(kwit.

    Oh look, Someone else who cant learn basic manors.



    One on one it would be fine, but in a situation where you have 2 fleet escorts on you, both pummelling you, its had to respond in anymeaningfull way for the 15 seconds that your left standing before you pop.

    I am not even going to bother with the rest of this thread. You lost any chance of a reasonable responce with this. Do you honestly think that ANYONE should be able to stand up to 2 ships who's entire purpose is to pour out damage?

    /sigh

    It is a team game. If you team mates are not doing their part in healing you or pulling the target off you then get new team mates. Cannons might be a little OP, I have not had a chance to check them to deeply yet, but I do know they have some big limitations as well. I also know that it is very likely that the over vast majority of the posts claiming this and that is way to OP is due to poor teamwork and a lack of understanding.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    As an escort captain - I was getting pwned by cruiser and science vessels in space PVP on Tribble during the play with the dev's last friday and I was using all purple gear! Sure I killed quite a few - but I died just as many times as I tallied a kill.

    In any event - the powers team will be continually adjusting - so if you think things are out of whack - please continue to bring this stuff up - especially in the Tribble Test Server forums.

    With the way people stack skills, they might as well label the cannon button as "drop target shields", it will most of the time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Simple counter it's called q up beam disable weapons and their pretty helpless.

    Sub nuc is also annoying,

    So is vm

    Their is also rsp

    theirs also mines with attack pattern beta. If I see 20 mines drop in front of me no way I'm gonna smash into them.
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