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Tac Officer not so Hidden NERF?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
So, with the new respec and 3 new skills you have decided to nerf tac officers. All 3 of the new skills need to be taken by tactical officers. The other two classes it is a totally an optional situation. Tactical officers must take them to retain thier previous abilities. Since you did not see fit to increase the allocated skill points with this patch, you are effectively nerfing tactical officers. By requiring us to spend points in those new skills, we have to give up skills in other areas. My guess is we will now give up half our tree in admiral abilities, and ground combat abilites will suffer. Was this an over sight, or did you intend to reduce tactical officer skills in other areas?

Before you tell me that all classes need them, I can only say BS. I have both a sci/sci support and a eng/cruiser tank. My sci ship is a support ship, it doens tneed to turn better, it doesnt need to hit harder, it is their to support others. none of those abilites will help with that. My cruiser is a true tank. 15% increase in turn rate is usless, Nor does it need to hit harder or get an extra crit. It tanks, if the dps is not smart enough to let me go in first, collect agro and pull off the mobs from me one at a time. me being able to hit harder is not going to get that agro back against a couple dps escort ships.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    If I re-spec my tac officer, I'll have PLENTY of points to max out these new skills. I can think of at least 4 useless skills I have maxed out now that can be re-directed. So I'm not worried about it. (They're only Tier 1, remember.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    That would be your opinion Engi/Sci's don't need the skills.

    Some people may disagree.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hardly a nerf. The new skills are a better investment than the old Escort Captain line, and a better investment over ground skills.

    Did you even test these on Tribble?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Escorts on Tribble were just as or even more ridiculous than before. Don't worry so much. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hardly a nerf. The new skills are a better investment than the old Escort Captain line, and a better investment over ground skills.

    Did you even test these on Tribble?


    why do you assume I havnt? I gave up points exactly where I said. And 25% percent increase to my ships stats per escort skill is quite a bit. Why would you even consider giving thast up?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hardly a nerf. The new skills are a better investment than the old Escort Captain line, and a better investment over ground skills.

    Did you even test these on Tribble?

    You do know that the STFs are mostly ground missions right? it makes no sense to not put points in ground.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You do know that the STFs are mostly ground missions right? it makes no sense to not put points in ground.

    Blasphemy!!!!

    lol :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    why do you assume I havnt? I gave up points exactly where I said. And 25% percent increase to my ships stats per escort skill is quite a bit. Why would you even consider giving thast up?

    Because the points were negligible, even at 25%. Minor hull gain, very minor turn rate gain versus improved crit stats, better turn rate gains, maxed attack pattern alpha, omega and fire on my mark, better defense and innate resists.

    I didn't touch my Admiral skills. I only "gave up" Quantum skill to max out the new skills. Huge boon for all ship types.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well I have a tactical captain in a sci ship. Previously I would have had to invest in escort ships skills (which offer me no benefit) to improve certain tactical skills.

    Now I can spend points in the new skills, which does benefit me and improve tactical skills.

    I like this change
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    That would be your opinion Engi/Sci's don't need the skills.

    Some people may disagree.

    Once you reach admiral you need to be able to do your job as best you can. I'm sure others do disagree, but i will take a sci/sci with maxed support skills anyday in a group over any other combo possible. If you think a eng/sci can match teh support capabilities of a sci/sci you would be mistaken. If your trying to make a sci a tank, an engineer /Cruiser can do a much better job.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You do know that the STFs are mostly ground missions right? it makes no sense to not put points in ground.

    Pfft. They can be done without ground skills. I cut my ground skills in half and I still do just fine on the ground.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    veigst wrote: »
    Well I have a tactical captain in a sci ship. Previously I would have had to invest in escort ships skills (which offer me no benefit) to improve certain tactical skills.

    That's the key point - in that sense it's the opposite of a nerf for tac officers who didn't fly escorts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Pfft. They can be done without ground skills. I cut my ground skills in half and I still do just fine on the ground.

    Your right, in the first one you can, but you forget that cryptic has said they are going to get more complicated, what is true on infected may not be so true on the cure.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    why do you assume I havnt? I gave up points exactly where I said. And 25% percent increase to my ships stats per escort skill is quite a bit. Why would you even consider giving thast up?

    Now convince me that the points spent in ground really make that much of a difference.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    So, with the new respec and 3 new skills you have decided to nerf tac officers. All 3 of the new skills need to be taken by tactical officers. The other two classes it is a totally an optional situation. Tactical officers must take them to retain thier previous abilities. Since you did not see fit to increase the allocated skill points with this patch, you are effectively nerfing tactical officers. By requiring us to spend points in those new skills, we have to give up skills in other areas. My guess is we will now give up half our tree in admiral abilities, and ground combat abilites will suffer. Was this an over sight, or did you intend to reduce tactical officer skills in other areas?

    Before you tell me that all classes need them, I can only say BS. I have both a sci/sci support and a eng/cruiser tank. My sci ship is a support ship, it doens tneed to turn better, it doesnt need to hit harder, it is their to support others. none of those abilites will help with that. My cruiser is a true tank. 15% increase in turn rate is usless, Nor does it need to hit harder or get an extra crit. It tanks, if the dps is not smart enough to let me go in first, collect agro and pull off the mobs from me one at a time. me being able to hit harder is not going to get that agro back against a couple dps escort ships.

    It's not a nerf, it's an improvement. Yes, if you want to boost your tactical skills you have to put points in the new skills, but, before the change, if you wanted to boost your tactical skills you HAD to put your points in completely worthless ship skills -- worthless skills, because once you moved out of that tier of ship, your points were wasted. This was even worse if you were a Tac in a Sci/Cruiser ship as you don't even fly an Escort ship.

    Also, Sci/Eng are in the same boat as Tacs when wanting to boost their captain skills... they have to invest in certain skills, the skills are just different than the Tac skills you have to take.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Now convince me that the points spent in ground really make that much of a difference.

    and yet the fed players whine about klingons in pvp being op. You think maybe a klingon who has chosen to level his toon in ground pvp might just have have all those points stacked, thus being able to own you time over time? you dont pvp at all, thats fine, but dont kid yourself that cryptic is not going to mkae end game ground mission harder as they release them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    and yet the fed players whine about klingons in pvp being op. You think maybe a klingon who has chosen to level his toon in ground pvp might just have have all those points stacked, thus being able to own you time over time? you dont pvp at all, thats fine, but dont kid yourself that cryptic is not going to mkae end game ground mission harder as they release them.

    I did ground PvP as KDF, all tiers, with no ground skills at all. Still won. Still got called OP. Some people just play better than others.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Galtrovan wrote: »
    It's not a nerf, it's an improvement. Yes, if you want to boost your tactical skill you have to put points in the new skills, but, before the change, if you wanted to boost your tactical skills you HAD to put your points in completely worthless ship skills -- worthless skills, because once you moved out of that tier of ship, your points were wasted. This was even worse if you were a Tac in a Sci/Cruiser ship as you don't even fly an Escort ship.

    Also, Sci/Eng are in the same boat as Tacs when wanting to boost their captain skills... they have to invest in certain skills, the skills are just different than the Tac skills you have to take.

    yes, under old system the escorts skill were useless after you went to the next tier ship, you took for the tact powers. But now remember, you retain 25% of those abilites to the next level, so in effect, you are gaining quite abit of hull str, shield str, and turn now by using them. May not be overwhelming, but worth as much as the generic skills you took early in your leveling.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I did ground PvP as KDF, all tiers, with no ground skills at all. Still won. Still got called OP. Some people just play better than others.

    well, no one in their right mind would even begin to argue that point:)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Now convince me that the points spent in ground really make that much of a difference.

    I'm still waiting for someone to convince me that points spent in any skill really make that much of a difference...

    I'm not saying they don't, I'm just not sure what they really do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    uhm yeah since you no longer have to put points into any other tier ships other then the commander the main type (excort or whatever you want end game) and then tier 4 and tier 5 (tier 4 is optional) you will have pleanty of points to put in those other three abilities. the only real thing they should fix are the kits at this point some of them have weird combinations.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mirai wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for someone to convince me that points spent in any skill really make that much of a difference...

    I'm not saying they don't, I'm just not sure what they really do.

    Heh, fair enough.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    the did for my science and engineer toons i cant imagine why they wouldnt for the tactical as well. the science one and the engineer in certain trees were a huge help.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    and yet the fed players whine about klingons in pvp being op. You think maybe a klingon who has chosen to level his toon in ground pvp might just have have all those points stacked, thus being able to own you time over time? you dont pvp at all, thats fine, but dont kid yourself that cryptic is not going to mkae end game ground mission harder as they release them.

    In Ground PVP no side is OP it is the only PVP in the game that is balanced between the two factions. And yes I have tested it and the ground abilities do make a difference in goround combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    why do you assume I havnt? I gave up points exactly where I said. And 25% percent increase to my ships stats per escort skill is quite a bit. Why would you even consider giving thast up?

    Boo hoo.

    Tac/Escort captains used to benefit the most from the double dip on the Escort and Heavy Escort skills with the Attack Patterns. Now it evens out for all combinations.
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