My system is energy credit based. Its a give and take credit approach. The first death would be free. Then I would suggest that the DP starts out at the LT level costing 1000 energy credits for the second death within a mission, 2000 for the third and so forth, adding 1000 more with every death and if you die without sufficient credits, then it kicks you out of the mission to the main sector. Increase the starting amount for death by 1000 credits for each rank until it costs 5000 for the second Rear Admiral death, 10000 for the third and so forth. There would be no DP at Ensign level.
There You have a DP and a reason to have lots of cash at the endgame level. The fact is there isn't much to spend cash on once you get up high enough and lower down, a DP like this would make you go out and do more side missions to get you some extra credits. What it doesn't do is hurt your team or make you have to spend years traveling to bases to buy crew or some other such thing and it especially doesn't require a ton of extra coding to implement. Its simple and to the point and while I didn't want a DP, this is one I could get behind as it would make energy credits actually worth something even after you've already bought nearly everything you wanted and still have many millions sitting around.
Add to this system, a reward for not dying as well. Give people a positive for staying alive as well as a penalty for dying. Have completing the mission in one shot worth a few thousand. If you die once, there is no reward and no penalty but the second death starts costing. If you want to stay and try to finish the mission, then you might end up paying the price in credits. However, you could always just quit the mission and start over again. Perhaps even throw in an accolade for number of missions completed without a death.
Not a bad idea, definitely. Conceptually you could call it a "repair/medical fee" or something along those lines. I see a few problems though.
First, if a player buys from the exchange at all, he or she might not have any significant amounts of money at any given time. Then what happens when you run out of credits? You start getting booted out of maps that you might not be able to get back in to, since the map system works about 50% of the time if you're on a team.
Second, this will actually give credit farmers a market. As it stands right now, Cryptic hasn't seemed to find a way to keep the farmers and spammers out, but other than the exchange, there's pretty much nothing to spend credits on and therefore relatively minimal demand for in-game currency. A credit-linked death penalty would change this dramatically.
Finally, if the death penalty is to be credit-linked, credits must be a mission reward or be rewarded for killing enemies and destroying ships. This would help solve the farmer problem simply by making credits easier to obtain. Of course, it devalues the credit, and would cut against its effectiveness as a death penalty... Vicious cycle.
So there are some issues with implementation. This idea would be best used in tandem with another penalty - reduction in combat effectiveness or something along these lines.
Id prefer it if when we died it showed on our ships. There is already a damage mechanic in the game.
Die once and your ship looks a bit burnt. Die twice and your ship looks pretty chewed up. Die three times and your ship looks awful as well as getting a -25% to shields and weapon damage. Die four times and and shields and weapons go offline, permanent like.
Returning to star base and docking will fix the damage immediately.
On the ground? Well dying on the ground works fine too me. You have to start back at the beginning of the map and hike your way back to where you were. So I think the DP for ground already works fine as is.
Actually if they make a DP pretty harsh, they need to fix DSE. Otherwise you'll die a lot simply because you'll warp in on top of about nine ships that'll blow you to bits.
Actually if they make a DP pretty harsh, they need to fix DSE. Otherwise you'll die a lot simply because you'll warp in on top of about nine ships that'll blow you to bits.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. Its also an idea to have every death make a 5% chance roll to perm kill 90% of your crew requiring a trip to Spacedock to get more. I concur that money farming would be an issue with a credit based DP system, but if you made it small enough, say reduce my idea by a factor of 10 and incorporate my above idea, you would have an effective yet not too damaging DP option. The best part is that it doesn't penalize the team and while some think the DP should penalize the team to help enforce better teamwork, I think if needing to win doesn't already do that, a DP penalization won't make much of difference.
Actually if they make a DP pretty harsh, they need to fix DSE. Otherwise you'll die a lot simply because you'll warp in on top of about nine ships that'll blow you to bits.
If they have a DP at all they need to fix that. Seriously.
Heck.....they just plain need to fix it anyways. And on a related subject Im sick and tired of enemy contacts chasing me all over the sector map when I have absolutely NO INTEREST in doing a defend sector mission at the moment. Comon!!!!
or how about you simply have Durability on all your items, each time you die it goes down 10%, when it gets to 0% it breaks and becomes unusable until you repair at a starbase for a moderate fee.
or how about you simply have Durability on all your items, each time you die it goes down 10%, when it gets to 0% it breaks and becomes unusable until you repair at a starbase for a moderate fee.
simple, easy, not too harsh.
no need to thank me cryptic.
You guys keep insisting something that sends us back to the Starbase. Do you guys not get enough of returning to Base?
I personally dislike having to go back to a Starbase. Our ship's replicators at one time gave full credits for things. I hate not getting full price so it's constantly back to base to sell. It's not bad with transwarp but getting back to a system or star cluster is a pain.
And Cryptic already scrapped the idea of your ship's performance tanking because of battle damage. They didn't consider it fun for space combat. I don't think that will be it.
You guys keep insisting something that sends us back to the Starbase. Do you guys not get enough of returning to Base?
The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of a directly resource-based death penalty. The crew member concept (when crew members die, they're gone until you replace them at a Starbase) definitely has merit, but it would require the current crewmen mechanic to be reworked.
For this to work at all, dead crewmen can't regenerate. And they never should have done this from the start. As it stands now, a ship can go from having five crewmen alive to fully-staffed in a matter of seconds - a tiny fraction of the time it takes the ship's shields to regenerate. This was absurd to begin with.
Crewmen would also need to die a LOT less often. A torpedo hitting my ship's shields can kill crewmen by the handfulls, which is pretty ridiculous. While shields are up, crewmen should pretty much never die. And if crewmen are to be the death penalty, the odds of them dying in combat - even with shields down - should be pretty minimal, even in the event of torpedo hits. This could be mitigated by increasing the rate at which they get injured, or decreasing the rate at which injured crewmen recover. In the event of death, the player would lose a significant chunk of his crew - call it 5-10% of his current alive crew.
Additionally, crewmen would need to have more of an effect on your ships operations. As it stands, they do little if anything other than determine repair rate. Your percentage of alive crew would need to be linked much more heavily to combat effectiveness: damage, damage resistance, power generation, maneuverability... there are plenty of options, pick some.
Finally, to address the return-to-Starbase concern, a mechanic by which new crewmen are delivered to you could be impemented. Let's say that if you return to a Starbase, your ship is automatically re-staffed for free. But the player could have the option to hail Starfleet and request new crew members, at which point a starship would deliver them, at a hefty cost in credits. This way, you don't have to return to the Starbase if you don't want to, in which case the DP is costing you credits. But if you're broke, you don't get booted from your mission.
The more I think about it, the more I think this game just needs to scrap the idea of implementing a death penalty and just give relative rewards for completing challenging objectives.
Actually if they make a DP pretty harsh, they need to fix DSE. Otherwise you'll die a lot simply because you'll warp in on top of about nine ships that'll blow you to bits.
Pretty much this, as I said somewhere else, I can't tell you how many times I warped in only to get attacked by camping enemies. Half of the time with the enemy flagship being there.
I fail to see why there has to be a DP instead of a reward for not dieing? It would be just as good for making people try harder to stay alive if this is really the issue though I have not seen it much and it would not be harsh on the casual players.
I think rewards for dying are much better.
however, there are too many people pushing to make the game more annoying by making death a suck fest and so I'm trying to offer one that wouldn't suck so much.
I think the "it gives gold spammers a market" thing is both true and complete BS. As it stands, the energy credit thing is pointless. If they let you sell fully loaded ships on the market or any item and not have things bound on pick up and such then maybe there would be a descent reason for having endless cash at endgame but as of now there is nothing to spend it on. I'm sure that Everyone would like to have something to spend those millions on later but fixing the system at any time and for any reason would always create a market for spammers.
Cryptic will handle the spammers as they always have and we'll ignore them as we always have, its that simple.
Will it make you grind? Sure it will. Hell, grinding is what keeps most MMO's going. There is only so much content at any one time anyways. When you have nothing to grind for and right now, theree isn't much other than the Daily, you lose intrest and after you have the best of everything offered in the daily, you won't even grind for that anymore. A money based DP keeps you constantly playing to keep a good budget for when you do die. Throw a positive rewards system along side that so you are rewarded when you don't die and its fun for all. The only time you would really die a lot is when you're taking risks or occasional crapfest and you could always just leave the mission and come back to start over the count, that way only the most ardent and never say die folks would end up accumulating large penalties.
Not everyone wants a DP. I have hated DP in all the MMO's i have played in the past.
Die and you have lost exp (i worked my butt off to get with the very little time i have to play) and you have to make a corpse run Naked to the place you died and have no way to really defend yourself against the stuff that killed you the first time.
Die and Lose exp (again a lot of work)
Die still have your stuff but be just a bit weaker for some time... Yeah im going to get killed by something then "Oh your going to go try again well hey your not quiet as good as you where before good luck"
Now you want me to lose money. That would suck to get killed like i did 2 nights ago when your fleet takes you somewhere and every time you enter the damn instance 7 ships open fire on you and before you can hit the throttle button your dead. Who would incure the credit cost of that? Me of course.
I have played a LOT of MMO's and you know what i actually like the "NO DP!" so quit trying to TRIBBLE me.
the current DP does use credits. You use them to but the components and w/e the avatar things are called. you can also have an engineer and a doctor fix you up at a SB.
Not everyone wants a DP. I have hated DP in all the MMO's i have played in the past.
Die and you have lost exp (i worked my butt off to get with the very little time i have to play) and you have to make a corpse run Naked to the place you died and have no way to really defend yourself against the stuff that killed you the first time.
Die and Lose exp (again a lot of work)
Die still have your stuff but be just a bit weaker for some time... Yeah im going to get killed by something then "Oh your going to go try again well hey your not quiet as good as you where before good luck"
Now you want me to lose money. That would suck to get killed like i did 2 nights ago when your fleet takes you somewhere and every time you enter the damn instance 7 ships open fire on you and before you can hit the throttle button your dead. Who would incure the credit cost of that? Me of course.
I have played a LOT of MMO's and you know what i actually like the "NO DP!" so quit trying to TRIBBLE me.
Comments
First, if a player buys from the exchange at all, he or she might not have any significant amounts of money at any given time. Then what happens when you run out of credits? You start getting booted out of maps that you might not be able to get back in to, since the map system works about 50% of the time if you're on a team.
Second, this will actually give credit farmers a market. As it stands right now, Cryptic hasn't seemed to find a way to keep the farmers and spammers out, but other than the exchange, there's pretty much nothing to spend credits on and therefore relatively minimal demand for in-game currency. A credit-linked death penalty would change this dramatically.
Finally, if the death penalty is to be credit-linked, credits must be a mission reward or be rewarded for killing enemies and destroying ships. This would help solve the farmer problem simply by making credits easier to obtain. Of course, it devalues the credit, and would cut against its effectiveness as a death penalty... Vicious cycle.
So there are some issues with implementation. This idea would be best used in tandem with another penalty - reduction in combat effectiveness or something along these lines.
Id prefer it if when we died it showed on our ships. There is already a damage mechanic in the game.
Die once and your ship looks a bit burnt. Die twice and your ship looks pretty chewed up. Die three times and your ship looks awful as well as getting a -25% to shields and weapon damage. Die four times and and shields and weapons go offline, permanent like.
Returning to star base and docking will fix the damage immediately.
On the ground? Well dying on the ground works fine too me. You have to start back at the beginning of the map and hike your way back to where you were. So I think the DP for ground already works fine as is.
And those are my ideas.......
Thats way harsher really. Credits are much easier to attain than merits.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. Its also an idea to have every death make a 5% chance roll to perm kill 90% of your crew requiring a trip to Spacedock to get more. I concur that money farming would be an issue with a credit based DP system, but if you made it small enough, say reduce my idea by a factor of 10 and incorporate my above idea, you would have an effective yet not too damaging DP option. The best part is that it doesn't penalize the team and while some think the DP should penalize the team to help enforce better teamwork, I think if needing to win doesn't already do that, a DP penalization won't make much of difference.
If they have a DP at all they need to fix that. Seriously.
Heck.....they just plain need to fix it anyways. And on a related subject Im sick and tired of enemy contacts chasing me all over the sector map when I have absolutely NO INTEREST in doing a defend sector mission at the moment. Comon!!!!
Both of these things need fixing pronto.
simple, easy, not too harsh.
no need to thank me cryptic.
You guys keep insisting something that sends us back to the Starbase. Do you guys not get enough of returning to Base?
And Cryptic already scrapped the idea of your ship's performance tanking because of battle damage. They didn't consider it fun for space combat. I don't think that will be it.
This is a good idiea.
The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of a directly resource-based death penalty. The crew member concept (when crew members die, they're gone until you replace them at a Starbase) definitely has merit, but it would require the current crewmen mechanic to be reworked.
For this to work at all, dead crewmen can't regenerate. And they never should have done this from the start. As it stands now, a ship can go from having five crewmen alive to fully-staffed in a matter of seconds - a tiny fraction of the time it takes the ship's shields to regenerate. This was absurd to begin with.
Crewmen would also need to die a LOT less often. A torpedo hitting my ship's shields can kill crewmen by the handfulls, which is pretty ridiculous. While shields are up, crewmen should pretty much never die. And if crewmen are to be the death penalty, the odds of them dying in combat - even with shields down - should be pretty minimal, even in the event of torpedo hits. This could be mitigated by increasing the rate at which they get injured, or decreasing the rate at which injured crewmen recover. In the event of death, the player would lose a significant chunk of his crew - call it 5-10% of his current alive crew.
Additionally, crewmen would need to have more of an effect on your ships operations. As it stands, they do little if anything other than determine repair rate. Your percentage of alive crew would need to be linked much more heavily to combat effectiveness: damage, damage resistance, power generation, maneuverability... there are plenty of options, pick some.
Finally, to address the return-to-Starbase concern, a mechanic by which new crewmen are delivered to you could be impemented. Let's say that if you return to a Starbase, your ship is automatically re-staffed for free. But the player could have the option to hail Starfleet and request new crew members, at which point a starship would deliver them, at a hefty cost in credits. This way, you don't have to return to the Starbase if you don't want to, in which case the DP is costing you credits. But if you're broke, you don't get booted from your mission.
Ex: Complete mission without dying = bonus
Pretty much this, as I said somewhere else, I can't tell you how many times I warped in only to get attacked by camping enemies. Half of the time with the enemy flagship being there.
however, there are too many people pushing to make the game more annoying by making death a suck fest and so I'm trying to offer one that wouldn't suck so much.
I think the "it gives gold spammers a market" thing is both true and complete BS. As it stands, the energy credit thing is pointless. If they let you sell fully loaded ships on the market or any item and not have things bound on pick up and such then maybe there would be a descent reason for having endless cash at endgame but as of now there is nothing to spend it on. I'm sure that Everyone would like to have something to spend those millions on later but fixing the system at any time and for any reason would always create a market for spammers.
Cryptic will handle the spammers as they always have and we'll ignore them as we always have, its that simple.
Will it make you grind? Sure it will. Hell, grinding is what keeps most MMO's going. There is only so much content at any one time anyways. When you have nothing to grind for and right now, theree isn't much other than the Daily, you lose intrest and after you have the best of everything offered in the daily, you won't even grind for that anymore. A money based DP keeps you constantly playing to keep a good budget for when you do die. Throw a positive rewards system along side that so you are rewarded when you don't die and its fun for all. The only time you would really die a lot is when you're taking risks or occasional crapfest and you could always just leave the mission and come back to start over the count, that way only the most ardent and never say die folks would end up accumulating large penalties.
Die and you have lost exp (i worked my butt off to get with the very little time i have to play) and you have to make a corpse run Naked to the place you died and have no way to really defend yourself against the stuff that killed you the first time.
Die and Lose exp (again a lot of work)
Die still have your stuff but be just a bit weaker for some time... Yeah im going to get killed by something then "Oh your going to go try again well hey your not quiet as good as you where before good luck"
Now you want me to lose money. That would suck to get killed like i did 2 nights ago when your fleet takes you somewhere and every time you enter the damn instance 7 ships open fire on you and before you can hit the throttle button your dead. Who would incure the credit cost of that? Me of course.
I have played a LOT of MMO's and you know what i actually like the "NO DP!" so quit trying to TRIBBLE me.
Geez, go take a chill pill.