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Why oh why

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I realise that I am probably in the minority with the following but what the hell, we all have the right to an opinion right?

I am a little dissapointed to see cryptic following so slavishly the form of other MMOs. Tac ships = DPS, cruisers = Tank, science vessels = buff/debuff. It just seems unimaginative to me. I can live with this though, it was pretty much expected after all.

What is more disappointing is the combat. It feels like World of Warcraft in space. Most battles are decided not by weapons but by boring abilities that shut down ships or render players temporarily invulnerable etc.
Combat was pretty good earlier in the development. Most abilities gave players minor buffs or enemies minor debuffs, battles were decided by the careful use of these abilites coupled with tactical positioning of your ship etc.

As is also done in almost every other MMO, defensive abilities almost always far exceed offensive abilities in effectiveness. This has reached silly proportions in my opinion. Tactical escorts are the kinds of vessels that just can't take all that much punishment, especially when piloted by a tac officer player. When an opposing vessel can render itself essentially invulnerable for a while (Reverse shield polarity) for instance - possibly one of the silliest abilities in the game - then the tac ship loses a lot of its initial advantage. A skilled engineer flying a cruiser should always be able to defeat a skilled tac officer in an escort, possibly two tac officers in two escorts. This kind of disparity in perforance quickly errodes the fun in flying an escort vessel, or at least with a tac officer.
It seems that the price you pay to deal extra damage is simply too high. You ships survivability is terrible and the defences of other ships are simply dispropotionately strong. Where it was a case that the tac officer in his escort is essentially trying to kill the enemy very fast to negate the comparative fragility of his ship, that is rarely possible anymore. Defencive options are too strong and too many.

It would be nice if some equipment could negate abilites. As it stands, science team is required to overcome a host of debuffs, very powerful debuffs at that. Too many it seems.

All in all, the game has increasingly slid down the conformity slope to the point where it will soon be a clone of every other MMO out there. Shame. It showed some potential in the beginning.

Ground combat in STO is even worse in my opinion. When you are not "Held", which is fairly rare, you are being effected by innumerable other debuffs etc. When you target someone your controls go haywire. It seems that forward, back, left, right become slaved, not to your target, but to the direction you were facing when you targetted them.....bizarre. There isn't even an option to turn off this wierdness.
It always seemed a cop-out to me when games resort to simply removing control of your character. If abilities like this are to be included they should be extremely rare. It just strikes as a lack of imagination. A better and more skillful system could not be created so this very boring mechanic was inserted.

VM countered by SCi team, MES countered by sci-team.......The game is rapidly becoming a flashy version of paper, scissors, rock.

I realise that this game is fairly new but all indications are that it is heading in the wrong direction, following the same formula as other MMO's. How wonderful it would be if there were entirely different concepts underlying the game than we have seen before. A game where "Tank" and "DPS" didn't have any real meaning. A lot to ask for I suppose....
I also realise that hardcore geeks who practically converse in three letter ackronyms will hate this post. Side benefit :P
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    wow...
    Its a big text...
    very big...
    maybe one day...
    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Could I get that opinion in a one word sentence man, a coles notes version. It's late and i am not about to read it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I skimmed it. Same old complaints.

    Not that they're necessarily unvalid. Its just Im not gonna spend even 30 seconds reading the same stuff Ive read a hundred times before. Sorry OP.

    People have been saying the same stuff for awhile now.

    Next time make it a little shorter and sweeter maybe.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I skimmed it. Same old complaints.

    Not that they're necessarily unvalid. Its just Im not gonna spend even 30 seconds reading the same stuff Ive read a hundred times before. Sorry OP.

    People have been saying the same stuff for awhile now.

    Next time make it a little shorter and sweeter maybe.

    This, right here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    This, right here.


    Man, I hate this :)



    I agree :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I read it.

    Just complaining that he can't control his avatar well, that min-maxing is practiced by others, and that we have abilities that have counters.

    There is an option to change how your camera works in ground combat so that it doesn't lock on targets. Actually there are lots of options that allow you to control your camera and select targets the way you want to. You just have to go into the options and try them out.

    You complain about the trinity and say that it's shallow. The thing is that players will make characters that specialize even if you make a system where all is open and total hybridization is possible. Sure not everyone will specialize but many will. And even in a system like the one we have where there are a few broad classes with clearly defined base roles some will be hybridized. The point is that you are complaining about player behavior not game design. The only way to avoid a system where tanks, dps, and healers exist is to make a game that doesn't have healing or damage.

    As far as rock, paper, scissors gameplay, it's expected and enjoyed by many. What alternative to it is there? Just make one type of ability. Rock, rock, rock. Otherwise it is natural that some abilities will counteract one another.

    So that's a summary and response. Tried to keep it shorter than the op.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    F-Prime wrote:
    I read it.

    Just complaining that he can't control his avatar well, that min-maxing is practiced by others, and that we have abilities that have counters.

    There is an option to change how your camera works in ground combat so that it doesn't lock on targets. Actually there are lots of options that allow you to control your camera and select targets the way you want to. You just have to go into the options and try them out.

    You complain about the trinity and say that it's shallow. The thing is that players will make characters that specialize even if you make a system where all is open and total hybridization is possible. Sure not everyone will specialize but many will. And even in a system like the one we have where there are a few broad classes with clearly defined base roles some will be hybridized. The point is that you are complaining about player behavior not game design. The only way to avoid a system where tanks, dps, and healers exist is to make a game that doesn't have healing or damage.

    As far as rock, paper, scissors gameplay, it's expected and enjoyed by many. What alternative to it is there? Just make one type of ability. Rock, rock, rock. Otherwise it is natural that some abilities will counteract one another.

    So that's a summary and response. Tried to keep it shorter than the op.

    Yeah. Not reading this either. Could you shorten it up a little?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Staran wrote: »
    Yeah. Not reading this either. Could you shorten it up a little?

    ye no kthxbai? :o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Staran wrote: »
    Yeah. Not reading this either. Could you shorten it up a little?

    Basically, the trinity is impossible to avoid, even if the game was programmed without it, as players naturally would progress to such.

    Better?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Basically, the trinity is impossible to avoid, even if the game was programmed without it, as players naturally would progress to such.

    Better?

    Could you put that in two words?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Could you put that in two words?

    OP: Trinity bad.

    Responder: Trinity normal.

    I'm sorry, but I really can't get any better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You can't imagine a different system, so no different system is possible. lol

    As to the "Its too long" squad.

    If you don't want to read it; don't. Is there something inherent in MMOs that attract all the ADHD cases out there? Short attention spans are the order of the day! :P

    Trinity? Jesus, it's so ubiquitous there is a special term for it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    Man, I hate this :)



    I agree :eek:

    I've found myself in that same boat a couple times now.

    ....

    i feel unclean.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    i find he has a point about the holds i find that holds should take atleast tiwice as long to recharge as they hold for i.e. a 2 second hold should take 4-5 seconds to recharge.... i find that in alot of ground pvp 1v1 i get spam held to death
    hold - shoot - hold - shot - hold - shoot, i'm lucky to get 1-2 hits off, or if i'm really lucky a knockback that gives me a chance to get out of hold range =/
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Paper, rock, scissors is far superior to band-aid, chainsaw, helmet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Could you put that in two words?

    I could, but then I'd get banned ....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    If there were no healer/DPS/Tank archetypes in the game, there would be thousands of posts, each 10x longer than the OP, complaining of how "that's how an MMO should be" and "why can't I just have a tank build", etc..
    Geesh.....lighten up. It's a game. Play it or don't. Same complaints as every other MMO forum I've been on, just replace phaser with sword and shields with armor. FYI....I'm having a TON of fun in-game and I suck!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Maybe I'm more enamored with this game b/c I have been a fan of Star Trek since the 70's. I'm not so worried about perfect mechanics, I'm just enjoying flying around pew pew-ing Klingons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    STO, the game, IS a flashy version of paper, scissors, rock.

    Here's the TLDR version for folks reading that don't want to bother reading the entire post. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I played a sci/sci all the way to captain and never once healed or buffed anyone.

    right now I am leveling a tac/cruiser, with the engineers outfitted to do more damage and destroy shields, I do great damage but cannot tank as well as other cruisers


    You do not have to assume a traditional role if you do not wish to, you are limited only by your own imagination.
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