Why do the Klingons have a "Defense Force"? Don't they realize that no military has ever won a war with a "Defense Force"? Also, isn't the term "Defense Force" a bit advanced or civilized for them? I thought Klingons were a retconed race based on attack and honor, basically aggression. Klingons and Defense seem like an oxymoron. Please don't tell me that it was named as such to appease the politically correct or pacifist segment of the player base :rolleyes:
Why do the Klingons have a "Defense Force"? Don't they realize that no military has ever won a war with a "Defense Force"? Also, isn't the term "Defense Force" a bit advanced or civilized for them? I thought Klingons were a retconed race based on attack and honor, basically aggression. Klingons and Defense seem like an oxymoron. Please don't tell me that it was named as such to appease the politically correct or pacifist segment of the player base :rolleyes:
What about the Israeli Defense Force? They won I believe 4 different wars.
Don't they realize that no military has ever won a war with a "Defense Force"? Please don't tell me that it was named as such to appease the politically correct or pacifist segment of the player base :rolleyes:
There is a major difference between winning a war and winning battles. Winning a war means that the other side is so beaten that they cannot rise again... as in Carthage vs Rome. Since WW2, nobody has won a war, they have won battles, however, the other side is still standing. The example above about Israel forgets that their forces never went so far as to take a capital, chase the governments of those contries into some form of exile or hang the leaders or dictate terms with a foot on the chest of an enemy soldier, nor have they so beaten the general public that they were afraid to take to the streets for fear of their lives. Perhaps the closest thing to winning a war, based on the past, was the latest one with Iraq.
If the KDF was a true "defense force", then, who attacked them? Doesn't the story say that they are taking advantage of the Romulan exit from power? Nothing very defensive about that.
There is a major difference between winning a war and winning battles. Winning a war means that the other side is so beaten that they cannot rise again... as in Carthage vs Rome. Since WW2, nobody has won a war, they have won battles, however, the other side is still standing. The example above about Israel forgets that their forces never went so far as to take a capital, chase the governments of those contries into some form of exile or hang the leaders or dictate terms with a foot on the chest of an enemy soldier, nor have they so beaten the general public that they were afraid to take to the streets for fear of their lives. Perhaps the closest thing to winning a war, based on the past, was the latest one with Iraq.
If the KDF was a true "defense force", then, who attacked them? Doesn't the story say that they are taking advantage of the Romulan exit from power? Nothing very defensive about that.
Well I dont know what history book you read but Israel took the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the west bank from Jordan and the golan heights from Syria. I dont think you can say just because they didnt obliterate the other side that it was not a real war. They fought off 7 invasions and created a state where palestine used to be. Moving all the people who used to live there into refugee camps. So while they didnt completely wipe the palestinians off the map they did take all their lands and put them in these small camps they control all access in and out of.
Also I think someone once said "The best defense is a good offense.".
The point I am talking about is the KDF, where did that name come from. Suggesting that it is canon, as above, leaves me questioning... correct me, but I do not recall that term used before this game. Canon for Star Trek, I thought, was reserved for the Star Trek series/movies only. Books and games are discounted.
The point I am talking about is the KDF, where did that name come from. Suggesting that it is canon, as above, leaves me questioning... correct me, but I do not recall that term used before this game. Canon for Star Trek, I thought, was reserved for the Star Trek series/movies only. Books and games are discounted.
Sorry but are you saying you have never heard of the KDF before STO came out?
if you look he joined the forum a couple of days before release. not only are you wrong, about a lot of things, OP, but you're kinda late wanting to get involved with game design.
My general understanding is the rename from Klingon Imperial Fleet to Klingon Defense Force was never really explained, but KDF is the canon term for the time period of STO.
The Klingon Defense Force (KDF) is makes up the great majority of the Imperial Military. The KDF is comprised of the Imperial Fleet, the Imperial Marine Corps and the Klingon Security Force. Ship, starbase, and planetary defense and security within the Imperial Borders are the prime concern of the KDF.
I think you say technically Israel was invaded once. In 1973 during the Yom Kippur War Egyptian and Syrian forces crossed into the Golan Heights territory which Israel had captured, claimed, and occupied since the Six Day War in 1967.
Well, I never claimed to be a ST repository of knowledge, I only thought to ask about what appeared to be an oxymoron to me. As to the other implied insult Duke, careful, some of us have actually written/published/taught military history and were it allowed I would post my website on tanks which is calculated as the largest in the world and consulted by museums and both military and non military schools.
Well, I never claimed to be a ST repository of knowledge, I only thought to ask about what appeared to be an oxymoron to me. As to the other implied insult Duke, careful, some of us have actually written/published/taught military history and were it allowed I would post my website on tanks which is calculated as the largest in the world and consulted by museums and both military and non military schools.
You taught military history and run the largest history website in the world and you said noone with defense force in their name ever won a war? Also you can post your website alot of people put websites in their sig. I have a you tube link in mine.
Well, I never claimed to be a ST repository of knowledge, I only thought to ask about what appeared to be an oxymoron to me. As to the other implied insult Duke, careful, some of us have actually written/published/taught military history and were it allowed I would post my website on tanks which is calculated as the largest in the world and consulted by museums and both military and non military schools.
and some of us can take 1.4 secs and google something before we put our foot (both in your case) in our mouths.
EDIT: the insult to your intelligence wasn't implied, i tried to make it very, very clear...
The violent confrontations which appear in this list were recognized as wars by the Defense Minister of Israel:
1948 War of Independence (November 1947 - July 1949), that started by a 6 months of civil war between Jewish and Arab militias at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine and that turned into a regular war after the declaration of independence of Israel and the intervention of several Arab armies. In its conclusion, a set of agreements were signed between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria called the 1949 Armistice Agreements which established the armistice lines between Israel and the West Bank, also known as the Green Line.
The Sinai War (October 1956) - a military attack on Egypt by Britain, France, and Israel beginning on 29 October 1956 with the intention to occupy the Sinai Peninsula and to take over the Suez Canal. The attack followed Egypt's decision of 26 July 1956 to nationalize the Suez Canal after the withdrawal of an offer by Britain and the United States to fund the building of the Aswan Dam.
Six-Day War (June 1967) - fought between Israel and Arab neighbors Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. The nations of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Algeria also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces. Following the war the territory held by Israel expanded significantly ("The Purple Line") : The West Bank, Golan Heights and Sinai were occupied from Jordan, Syria and Egypt, respectively.
War of Attrition (1968-1970) - a limited war fought between the Israeli military and forces of the Egyptian Republic, the USSR and the Palestine Liberation Organization from 1967 to 1970. It was initiated by the Egyptians as a way of recapturing the Sinai from the Israelis, who had been in control of the territory since the mid-1967 Six-Day War. The hostilities ended with a ceasefire signed between the countries in 1970 with frontiers remaining in the same place as when the war began.
Yom Kippur War (October 1973) - fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973 by a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel as a way of recapturing part of the territories which they lost to the Israelis back in the Six-Day War. The war began with a surprise joint attack by Egypt and Syria on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Egypt and Syria crossed the cease-fire lines in the Sinai and Golan Heights, respectively, which had been captured by Israel in 1967 during the Six-Day War.
First Lebanon War (1982) - began in 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon. The Government of Israel ordered the invasion as a response to the assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Shlomo Argov by the Abu Nidal Organization and due to the constant terror attacks on northern Israel made by the terrorist organizations which resided in Lebanon. See also Operation Litani.
Second Lebanon War (summer 2006) - began as military operation in response to the abduction of two Israeli reserve soldiers by the Hezbollah. The operation gradually strengthened, to become a wider confrontation. The principal parties were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israeli military. The conflict started on 12 July 2006, and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect on 14 August 2006, though it formally ended on 8 September 2006 when Israel lifted its naval blockade of Lebanon.
He doesnt need to google anything about history he runs the largest history website in the world. I am a history buff so I am honestly curious what site it is.
No no, you misunderstand me. MY defination of winning a war is like "carved in stone" and winning a battle as "carved in sand". One can win almost every battle and still lose a war (an example of that would be Viet Nam). One can lose almost every battle and still win the war. The best example of a battle loser who won a war was George Washington. If you care to visit my site go to tankhistory.com
He doesnt need to google anything about history he runs the largest history website in the world. I am a history buff so I am honestly curious what site it is.
and supposedly published. Surely any author would list the name of their book in a public setting in hopes of selling a couple copies...?
MAJOR EDIT
I can't help but notice the 2nd link off your site that google pops up when you search for "tankhistory.com" on their engine...
No no, you misunderstand me. MY defination of winning a war is like "carved in stone" and winning a battle as "carved in sand". One can win almost every battle and still lose a war (an example of that would be Viet Nam). One can lose almost every battle and still win the war. The best example of a battle loser who won a war was George Washington. If you care to visit my site go to tankhistory.com
Well I mean Isreal did take someone else's lands. Then took even more lands from the surrounding areas. The enemy was shoved into refugee camps where Isreal controls all trade even down to the food they eat. They also control access in and out of the west bank. I would consider this set in stone. Also we did not win all the battles in vietnam.
Are you sure you put in that website right? I mean this website while nice is hardly the largest in the world.
you're telling me that 2 words in this link don't jump out at you? lmao
I dont see that on any links on his site. Maybe thats some google error? I dont know for sure. Ah well hes gone anyways no sense talking about it anymore.
I dont see that on any links on his site. Maybe thats some google error? I dont know for sure. Ah well hes gone anyways no sense talking about it anymore.
like i said, google "tankhistory.com" and look at the 2 links to his site that google put up. granted he's gone, but now i'm thoroughly amused by his blustering.
Comments
What about the Israeli Defense Force? They won I believe 4 different wars.
Or within the realm of anime, you had the Japanese Tactical Self Defense Force which pretty much made swiss cheese of NERV...
I think that one was FTW.
If the KDF was a true "defense force", then, who attacked them? Doesn't the story say that they are taking advantage of the Romulan exit from power? Nothing very defensive about that.
Well I dont know what history book you read but Israel took the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the west bank from Jordan and the golan heights from Syria. I dont think you can say just because they didnt obliterate the other side that it was not a real war. They fought off 7 invasions and created a state where palestine used to be. Moving all the people who used to live there into refugee camps. So while they didnt completely wipe the palestinians off the map they did take all their lands and put them in these small camps they control all access in and out of.
Also I think someone once said "The best defense is a good offense.".
The point I am talking about is the KDF, where did that name come from. Suggesting that it is canon, as above, leaves me questioning... correct me, but I do not recall that term used before this game. Canon for Star Trek, I thought, was reserved for the Star Trek series/movies only. Books and games are discounted.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Klingon_Defense_Force
Read away.
/thread
Sorry but are you saying you have never heard of the KDF before STO came out?
This is what I get off the "lore" website.
You taught military history and run the largest history website in the world and you said noone with defense force in their name ever won a war? Also you can post your website alot of people put websites in their sig. I have a you tube link in mine.
and some of us can take 1.4 secs and google something before we put our foot (both in your case) in our mouths.
EDIT: the insult to your intelligence wasn't implied, i tried to make it very, very clear...
The violent confrontations which appear in this list were recognized as wars by the Defense Minister of Israel:
1948 War of Independence (November 1947 - July 1949), that started by a 6 months of civil war between Jewish and Arab militias at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine and that turned into a regular war after the declaration of independence of Israel and the intervention of several Arab armies. In its conclusion, a set of agreements were signed between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria called the 1949 Armistice Agreements which established the armistice lines between Israel and the West Bank, also known as the Green Line.
The Sinai War (October 1956) - a military attack on Egypt by Britain, France, and Israel beginning on 29 October 1956 with the intention to occupy the Sinai Peninsula and to take over the Suez Canal. The attack followed Egypt's decision of 26 July 1956 to nationalize the Suez Canal after the withdrawal of an offer by Britain and the United States to fund the building of the Aswan Dam.
Six-Day War (June 1967) - fought between Israel and Arab neighbors Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. The nations of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Algeria also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces. Following the war the territory held by Israel expanded significantly ("The Purple Line") : The West Bank, Golan Heights and Sinai were occupied from Jordan, Syria and Egypt, respectively.
War of Attrition (1968-1970) - a limited war fought between the Israeli military and forces of the Egyptian Republic, the USSR and the Palestine Liberation Organization from 1967 to 1970. It was initiated by the Egyptians as a way of recapturing the Sinai from the Israelis, who had been in control of the territory since the mid-1967 Six-Day War. The hostilities ended with a ceasefire signed between the countries in 1970 with frontiers remaining in the same place as when the war began.
Yom Kippur War (October 1973) - fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973 by a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel as a way of recapturing part of the territories which they lost to the Israelis back in the Six-Day War. The war began with a surprise joint attack by Egypt and Syria on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Egypt and Syria crossed the cease-fire lines in the Sinai and Golan Heights, respectively, which had been captured by Israel in 1967 during the Six-Day War.
First Lebanon War (1982) - began in 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon. The Government of Israel ordered the invasion as a response to the assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Shlomo Argov by the Abu Nidal Organization and due to the constant terror attacks on northern Israel made by the terrorist organizations which resided in Lebanon. See also Operation Litani.
Second Lebanon War (summer 2006) - began as military operation in response to the abduction of two Israeli reserve soldiers by the Hezbollah. The operation gradually strengthened, to become a wider confrontation. The principal parties were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israeli military. The conflict started on 12 July 2006, and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect on 14 August 2006, though it formally ended on 8 September 2006 when Israel lifted its naval blockade of Lebanon.
He doesnt need to google anything about history he runs the largest history website in the world. I am a history buff so I am honestly curious what site it is.
and supposedly published. Surely any author would list the name of their book in a public setting in hopes of selling a couple copies...?
MAJOR EDIT
I can't help but notice the 2nd link off your site that google pops up when you search for "tankhistory.com" on their engine...
Well I mean Isreal did take someone else's lands. Then took even more lands from the surrounding areas. The enemy was shoved into refugee camps where Isreal controls all trade even down to the food they eat. They also control access in and out of the west bank. I would consider this set in stone. Also we did not win all the battles in vietnam.
Are you sure you put in that website right? I mean this website while nice is hardly the largest in the world.
Site looks legit to me I didnt click any of the links though.
EDIT: definately a major website, he gets a whole 230 visitors a day on average...
http://www.statinternet.com/domain/tankhistory.com
I dont see that on any links on his site. Maybe thats some google error? I dont know for sure. Ah well hes gone anyways no sense talking about it anymore.
like i said, google "tankhistory.com" and look at the 2 links to his site that google put up. granted he's gone, but now i'm thoroughly amused by his blustering.