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hang on a sec... yes, the skillsystem again

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Please, folks, keep it civil this time. There's no need to diss each other if we can't be brought to agree with an opposing opinion.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2424262&postcount=617
Phoxe wrote:
The Skill Cap is an integral part of the core mechanic for this game.
So literally 5 minutes before STO went life it was decided that the skill cap is going to be a core mechanic? Isn't that a bit rushed? Because, you know, it was still an open system during beta, and all playtesting occured based on this open system. What was that game mechanic that made it work openly during the beta, and that changed so drastically that the skill system had to be capped? These are the questions I'd really like to get an answer for.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    These are the questions I'd really like to get an answer for.

    The answers are spread all over the board in tons of "remove cap" threads. Either you are too lazy to use the search function or you just want to stir the pot. In both cases your behaviour is annoying. Play EVE if you want a game without skill cap and have fun there while maxing all your skills in the next 17 years (the time you need to do that).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Please, folks, keep it civil this time. There's no need to diss each other if we can't be brought to agree with an opposing opinion.

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2424262&postcount=617


    So literally 5 minutes before STO went life it was decided that the skill cap is going to be a core mechanic? Isn't that a bit rushed? Because, you know, it was still an open system during beta, and all playtesting occured based on this open system. What was that game mechanic that made it work openly during the beta, and that changed so drastically that the skill system had to be capped? These are the questions I'd really like to get an answer for.

    Game balance was harped by tons of people in Open Beta - anecdotally, everyone I knew preferred specialization versus feeling the same because we have the exact same, maxed out stats.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Please, folks, keep it civil this time. There's no need to diss each other if we can't be brought to agree with an opposing opinion.

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2424262&postcount=617


    So literally 5 minutes before STO went life it was decided that the skill cap is going to be a core mechanic? Isn't that a bit rushed? Because, you know, it was still an open system during beta, and all playtesting occured based on this open system. What was that game mechanic that made it work openly during the beta, and that changed so drastically that the skill system had to be capped? These are the questions I'd really like to get an answer for.

    Its easy. The game was tested without a skill-cap. Tests concluded that a skill-cap actually was required in order for STO to be able to deliver future content and character progression in the way the devs envisioned. In essence a future-content strategy was developed that made the concept of the skill-cap a core mechanic.

    What do you want here? An explanation of the last-minute nature of the design change? Thats simply what happens in MMOs sometimes (in fact, often). Many things change during testing - sometimes fundamental things change. Sometimes things change at the last minute.

    My suggestion? Let it die. Accept it and move on, because it not changing.

    You also need to look up the definition of the word "literally". I do believe that this was in fact changed more than 300 seconds before the game launched :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Druuna wrote:
    The answers are spread all over the board in tons of "remove cap" threads. Either you are too lazy to use the search function or you just want to stir the pot. In both cases your behaviour is annoying. Play EVE if you want a game without skill cap and have fun there while maxing all your skills in the next 17 years (the time you need to do that).

    I fully agree with this, why keep dragging up such a pointless argument.

    You do however win, the double face palm thread award of the day :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The game is already stupidly easy WITH the skill cap. How much easier do you need it to be?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The game is already stupidly easy WITH the skill cap. How much easier do you need it to be?

    Spaceballs fans might want it to be LUDICROUSLY easy....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Why do we need *another* thread about the cap? It's not being removed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Because you got this gem in your Signature
    YES to 180 degree Z-Axis! I want to be able to shoot my cannons at targets above and below me!

    I would like for the cap to be removed, because what would be bad that you need 17years to get max at every skill?
    (Not an eve player, mind you)

    What i really didn't like was the sentence "It will never be removed" in a time where Cryptic said "We do everything the majority of our customers says we should do"
    The cap isn't integral, i understand the reasons why Crypticv might not want to remove it, but noone should say "It will never be removed"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Zerodime wrote: »
    Because you got this gem in your Signature


    I would like for the cap to be removed, because what would be bad that you need 17years to get max at every skill?
    (Not an eve player, mind you)

    What i really didn't like was the sentence "It will never be removed" in a time where Cryptic said "We do everything the majority of our customers says we should do"
    The cap isn't integral, i understand the reasons why Crypticv might not want to remove it, but noone should say "It will never be removed"

    And yet - that is what has been said. Sorry :o

    And noone has proven to me that the majority of players do want the skill cap removed.

    I count a handful of posters that just spam threads on the same subject over and over and at least an equal number of people arguing the other side. And the only reason people are still going on about it is because they have been around long enough to remember that for a time in BETA there was no cap.

    But over time there will be fewer and fewer players that care or even notice the skill cap - because for new players joining STO, the concept of capped skills progression is considered the norm and is common in most other MMOs.

    Let it die. Accept it and move on. Its not changing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    But if it's such a fundamental change, why was this brought in during the last minute? Fundamental changes need further testing, because if not, you get strange results, like happened with the weapon skills. I think we all agree these are kinda misplaced.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I support removing the skill point cap. It's never going to happen and I'm done even trying. Who Dat?!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I support the skill cap. I think it is a great idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    But if it's such a fundamental change, why was this brought in during the last minute? Fundamental changes need further testing, because if not, you get strange results, like happened with the weapon skills. I think we all agree these are kinda misplaced.

    In which case, campaigning for changes to the skills tree is more productive than campaigning for removal of the cap.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Zerodime wrote: »
    Because you got this gem in your Signature


    I would like for the cap to be removed, because what would be bad that you need 17years to get max at every skill?
    (Not an eve player, mind you)

    What i really didn't like was the sentence "It will never be removed" in a time where Cryptic said "We do everything the majority of our customers says we should do"
    The cap isn't integral, i understand the reasons why Crypticv might not want to remove it, but noone should say "It will never be removed"

    Wow, you point out a *real* fundamental flaw in the system that I have in my sig and compare it to a *perceived* flaw in the system?

    The game works perfectly fine with the skill cap in place.

    The arbitrary limitations on z axis actually affect an entire class of characters (cannon escort officers) and makes them less effective at their jobs (doing damage) because they have to waste time maneuvering while everyone else (beam-using ships) sits still and shoots.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    its called everyone was OP and there were admirals like three days into the game who stayed up all those hours doing nothing but leveling eating drinking and peeing in 2 liter bottles just to make admiral as fast as possible. when they did get there they had unlimited everything so their damage defense and ground abilities were all crazy insane.

    now i do propose that the only skill system to continue beyond the point limitation they have now is the ground abilities i think this would help out tremendously. allowing more points (not unlimited but more) to be places into the ground tree would be nice simply because i feel the ground is way too limited right now. but i wouldnt change anything else at this time when it comes to their point system for space abilities because you do need limitations.

    DEV's if you are listening i would propose reworking the ground trees to have more points or if thats not possible then moving max tier back one so as to have only up to tier 4 abilities on the officer type talent tree (ie science officer tree) this would cut down on the cost a tad and allow more points to be placed in the ground abilities to enhance the ground abilities of everyone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I could say your sig is just a perceived flaw...BUT I would love to have 360° movement too!
    I just made a comparision.
    This thread exists because some people think the cap must be gone, your sig stands because you (and some other) people think 360/180° movement should be done.
    I'm for a not-capped and 360° degrees, and i'm a sience captain.

    My opinion is, that the devs (Phoxe was it) said "The cap will never be lifted" would we just let it stand where he said it, we will NEVER have 180° OR a capless system OR ship-interiors....oh wait, the last one we'll get, you remember why? because enough people made a fuss over it, now we're getting it and it'll be awesome!!

    Fazit:
    One should not say "You'll never get it" others should not say "stop posting threads" because sometimes enough people want soemthing else than some other people and if these are in the majority, well they get what they want, sometimes.
    Wow, you point out a *real* fundamental flaw in the system that I have in my sig and compare it to a *perceived* flaw in the system?

    The game works perfectly fine with the skill cap in place.

    The arbitrary limitations on z axis actually affect an entire class of characters (cannon escort officers) and makes them less effective at their jobs (doing damage) because they have to waste time maneuvering while everyone else (beam-using ships) sits still and shoots.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Zerodime wrote: »
    I could say your sig is just a perceived flaw...BUT I would love to have 360° movement too!
    I just made a comparision.
    This thread exists because some people think the cap must be gone, your sig stands because you (and some other) people think 360/180° movement should be done.
    I'm for a not-capped and 360° degrees, and i'm a sience captain.

    My opinion is, that the devs (Phoxe was it) said "The cap will never be lifted" would we just let it stand where he said it, we will NEVER have 180° OR a capless system OR ship-interiors....oh wait, the last one we'll get, you remember why? because enough people made a fuss over it, now we're getting it and it'll be awesome!!
    .

    Right - but the problem is; noone has ever said we wouldn't be getting Ship interiors. In fact we have always been told, since BETA that they are planned but would not be ready for launch. And then bridges were pushed for launch as a bone to players whilst the rest were worked on.

    So this is not such a good example of "continue fighting and theyll budge eventually"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Druuna wrote:
    The answers are spread all over the board in tons of "remove cap" threads. Either you are too lazy to use the search function or you just want to stir the pot. In both cases your behaviour is annoying. Play EVE if you want a game without skill cap and have fun there while maxing all your skills in the next 17 years (the time you need to do that).

    hahaha 17 wtf lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    THE SKILL CAP IS GOING NOWHERE!

    The post link is in my signature!

    They are raising the cap "as soon as Season 2" WHY DO WE CONTINUE THIS FOOLISH DISCUSSION!!
    Furthermore, understand that every. single. time. I ever see these discussions, they always devolve into name calling, harrasment, and flaming, and I'm tired of it.

    In before lock!
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