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SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
First off I would like to raise a valid point I think everyone can agree on, STO is lacking massive chunks of content, right? Now, going back to what the people at Cryptic SAID would be included at launch (in many interviews, we all know the 2 factions issue), there is obviously some back-peddling going on here.

Zinc himself stated that the fabled "45" day patch would include a "big injection of content" (his words), however, having been onto Tribble, I can see nothing but fluff/bug fixes, and the tiniest addition for Klingons (Star clusters and the chance to do Fleet actions /yawn). Now, when this patch was revealed by Zinc many speculated that it would indeed contain SOME sort of content to bring Klingons in line with the Federation faction, this has sadly not been the case.

Why do Cryptic keep overstating/overhyping things? Do they think that the constant let downs and back peddling is ignored? I read in a post today that they are blaming WoW for the critical response to STO....WTF? Anyone with half a mind can see STO had blatant lack of content AND was was nearly a whole faction short on release plus it was missing the crafting which they intended.

All I can say to the devs who worked on this product, you only have yourselves to blame, dont cry because people rightly condemn a half finished game. YOU get paid, you dont do this job for free. We, as paying customers should be delivered a working as advertised, fun, and polished product as per the interviews and ads.

All I can see in the upcoming "patches" is stuff that SHOULD have been included at launch, and we are expected to thank them for this and praise them for delivering content that we have indeed already paid for (if the interviews were to be believed)? I wont go into the obvious cash-grab mechanics of Cryptics business model as that type of tactic is beneath contempt, either make STO FTP or include free content for paying customers.

When all is said and done, Cryptic have failed to deliver on what they said they could and we are all paying for that lack of honesty/foresight. Literally.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I must have missed it, is there anything constructive in the OP? Seriously, not trolling, I want to know if I missed something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think they did a good job and I personally really enjoy this game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I am just amused that they blame WoW for STO' reception, I really laughed at that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Every mmo developer says things they can't meet, you shouldn't take what they say 100% guranteed and just learn to roll with the punches.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kee-Bhor wrote: »
    I am just amused that they blame WoW for STO' reception, I really laughed at that.

    To be perfectly honest, I can see why they would say that. Other companies are starting to say the same thing. Wow set a standard now, one that most companies won't be able to meet. When WOW first came out it was not that much different from the other MMOs. MMOs were just really starting to hit mainstream at the time WOW launched.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    I must have missed it, is there anything constructive in the OP? Seriously, not trolling, I want to know if I missed something.

    Basically what he is saying is that Cryotic did not deliver what they said they would at launch and they are not deliverying what they said they would on the big upcoming patch. I hope that clears it up for you. Now you can go back to drinking your special Cool Aid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Every mmo developer says things they can't meet, you shouldn't take what they say 100% guranteed and just learn to roll with the punches.


    It does not make it right.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kee-Bhor wrote: »
    First off I would like to raise a valid point I think everyone can agree on, STO is lacking massive chunks of content, right? Now, going back to what the people at Cryptic SAID would be included at launch (in many interviews, we all know the 2 factions issue), there is obviously some back-peddling going on here.

    Zinc himself stated that the fabled "45" day patch would include a "big injection of content" (his words), however, having been onto Tribble, I can see nothing but fluff/bug fixes, and the tiniest addition for Klingons (Star clusters and the chance to do Fleet actions /yawn). Now, when this patch was revealed by Zinc many speculated that it would indeed contain SOME sort of content to bring Klingons in line with the Federation faction, this has sadly not been the case.

    Why do Cryptic keep overstating/overhyping things? Do they think that the constant let downs and back peddling is ignored? I read in a post today that they are blaming WoW for the critical response to STO....WTF? Anyone with half a mind can see STO had blatant lack of content AND was was nearly a whole faction short on release plus it was missing the crafting which they intended.

    All I can say to the devs who worked on this product, you only have yourselves to blame, dont cry because people rightly condemn a half finished game. YOU get paid, you dont do this job for free. We, as paying customers should be delivered a working as advertised, fun, and polished product as per the interviews and ads.

    All I can see in the upcoming "patches" is stuff that SHOULD have been included at launch, and we are expected to thank them for this and praise them for delivering content that we have indeed already paid for (if the interviews were to be believed)? I wont go into the obvious cash-grab mechanics of Cryptics business model as that type of tactic is beneath contempt, either make STO FTP or include free content for paying customers.

    When all is said and done, Cryptic have failed to deliver on what they said they could and we are all paying for that lack of honesty/foresight. Literally.

    So anyway. back to the topic at hand.

    Your stuff.

    Who gets it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    To be perfectly honest, I can see why they would say that. Other companies are starting to say the same thing. Wow set a standard now, one that most companies won't be able to meet. When WOW first came out it was not that much different from the other MMOs. MMOs were just really starting to hit mainstream at the time WOW launched.


    Ok so then WoW should start producing an inferior product to match all the rest of the MMO TRIBBLE out there? That makes no sense. I got an idea maybe the other MMO's should try to produce a better more polished product instead of half finished garbage that seems to be the norm these days.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ok so then WoW should start producing an inferior product to match all the rest of the MMO TRIBBLE out there? That makes no sense. I got an idea maybe the other MMO's should try to produce a better more polished product instead of half finished garbage that seems to be the norm these days.

    Nobody said wow should create inferior products. You're right that would make no sense. So, tell me.. how do you compare a 5 or 6 year old MMO that has had all that time to be polished with patches and expansions to one that just came out? Even ignore STO for the moment. There are other MMOs that have recently launched or soon will. So how do you compare them. It's apples and oranges.

    You illustrate the point well. You can't compare them but people do. People expect the same level of complexity and design for new MMOs as they do because of WOW. Unless you create something so innovative as to be completely shocking people are going to attempt to compare wow to almost every MMO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    To be perfectly honest, I can see why they would say that. Other companies are starting to say the same thing. Wow set a standard now, one that most companies won't be able to meet.

    I agree with this as I've seen it mentioned elsewhere on sites like MMORPG.com etc. Companies like Atari/NCSoft/Bioware etc. all want to see WoW level subscription numbers when they launch a new MMO. It's an unrealistic goal if you ask me. No new MMO is going to be able to compete with games like WoW that have had several years to mature.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The update on the test server is very light on content. We get essentially one more mission for Rear Admirals.

    Not only that, but this "45 day patch" is already a week late.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    I must have missed it, is there anything constructive in the OP? Seriously, not trolling, I want to know if I missed something.

    Nope you didn't miss anything. The OP is merely upset. If tribble is anyhting like closed beta testing then the player/testers will only see a small amount of the new content before it is released. I remember in CB that we were still testing the low levels while the Dev's were already walking around the bridges and had been doing so for a month or more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    Nobody said wow should create inferior products. You're right that would make no sense. So, tell me.. how do you compare a 5 or 6 year old MMO that has had all that time to be polished with patches and expansions to one that just came out? Even ignore STO for the moment. There are other MMOs that have recently launched or soon will. So how do you compare them. It's apples and oranges.

    You illustrate the point well. You can't compare them but people do. People expect the same level of complexity and design for new MMOs as they do because of WOW. Unless you create something so innovative as to be completely shocking people are going to attempt to compare wow to almost every MMO.

    It's pretty easy. They don't need the amount of content WoW has. But you can score points with interesting new ideas. Copy really good features (WoW does the same) and bring in your own ideas.

    The most important thing is: TAKE YOUR TIME! DON'T RUSH THINGS!

    No one will remember how long it takes to release a game. The only thing that will be remembered is how good it was.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kee-Bhor wrote: »
    First off I would like to raise a valid point I think everyone can agree on, STO is lacking massive chunks of content, right? Now, going back to what the people at Cryptic SAID would be included at launch (in many interviews, we all know the 2 factions issue), there is obviously some back-peddling going on here.

    Zinc himself stated that the fabled "45" day patch would include a "big injection of content" (his words), however, having been onto Tribble, I can see nothing but fluff/bug fixes, and the tiniest addition for Klingons (Star clusters and the chance to do Fleet actions /yawn). Now, when this patch was revealed by Zinc many speculated that it would indeed contain SOME sort of content to bring Klingons in line with the Federation faction, this has sadly not been the case.

    Why do Cryptic keep overstating/overhyping things? Do they think that the constant let downs and back peddling is ignored? I read in a post today that they are blaming WoW for the critical response to STO....WTF? Anyone with half a mind can see STO had blatant lack of content AND was was nearly a whole faction short on release plus it was missing the crafting which they intended.

    All I can say to the devs who worked on this product, you only have yourselves to blame, dont cry because people rightly condemn a half finished game. YOU get paid, you dont do this job for free. We, as paying customers should be delivered a working as advertised, fun, and polished product as per the interviews and ads.

    All I can see in the upcoming "patches" is stuff that SHOULD have been included at launch, and we are expected to thank them for this and praise them for delivering content that we have indeed already paid for (if the interviews were to be believed)? I wont go into the obvious cash-grab mechanics of Cryptics business model as that type of tactic is beneath contempt, either make STO FTP or include free content for paying customers.

    When all is said and done, Cryptic have failed to deliver on what they said they could and we are all paying for that lack of honesty/foresight. Literally.

    FTP maybe if lifers get a refund, game lacks in so many areas but fluff its sad, 45 day patch is a "slap in the face". The cap is a "slap in the face". The crafting is a "slap in the face". the fact its the same game at lvl 1 to lvl 45 with only a few missions that differ is a HUGE "slap in the face". There only answer is, "we listen to our community" then they turn around and close threads left and right
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hombold wrote:
    It's pretty easy. They don't need the amount of content WoW has. But you can score points with interesting new ideas. Copy really good features (WoW does the same) and bring in your own ideas.

    The most important thing is: TAKE YOUR TIME! DON'T RUSH THINGS!

    No one will remember how long it takes to release a game. The only thing that will be remembered is how good it was.

    It's not just content that people compare, though. It's server stability. General polish. Types of content. Size of the community. The list goes on.

    While I don't think it's WoW's fault personally, I can agree that there is some merit to the assertion that WoW set a standard nobody can meet. Remember six months ago, people were saying that if this game doesn't get 5 million subs at launch this game will fail? How is that realistic?

    And don't tell me that expectation by some members of the community was a result of anything other than the success WoW is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I agree with this as I've seen it mentioned elsewhere on sites like MMORPG.com etc. Companies like Atari/NCSoft/Bioware etc. all want to see WoW level subscription numbers when they launch a new MMO. It's an unrealistic goal if you ask me. No new MMO is going to be able to compete with games like WoW that have had several years to mature.

    I think the point is:

    1. Blizzard and WoW have raised the bar for what a popular and successful mmo is from the corporate pov.
    2. Blizzard and WoW have raised the bar for what a polished, "ready to ship" mmo is from the consumer's pov.

    That's what they're up against. WoW has redefined success and polish. It's a tough act to follow. If you can't figure that out, stop posting.
    No one will remember how long it takes to release a game. The only thing that will be remembered is how good it was.

    Daikatana? DNF?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Its like a broken record with these posts... Dude why are you still here??? thats what the people that like the game are asking... Can you answer that for us since we respond about 10 times a day to these kind of post? if the game sucks so bad for you why do you play?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Personally I tend to think direct comparisons with other MMO's is a bit pointless, particularly with something like STO, which has the distinct potential to attract and appeal to many many people outside the 'norm' for MMO subscribers.

    I do think that there is a distinct lack of content and general 'polish' to STO.

    This I think has more to do with the fact that Cryptic made a bold statement a while back along the lines of:

    "We will generate a generic MMO engine that will allow us to churn out new MMO's within a 2 year pre-release development period."

    The then tried to do it.

    Frankly, there is a reason most good games (nor just MMO's) that have stood the test of time take 3+ years to develop - they need that time to put enough varied and polished content in to satisfy.

    If you try and have a 'generic' engine, you end up padding out content with awfully repetitive and boring stuff (EG - go find and scan 5 objects and call it a mission)

    I'd say, give STO another 12-18 months at the same development rate we are currently seeing. If it lasts that long (which it might, really depends on Atari), then we will probably be seeing a really awsome game (my opinion that it isn't yet but does have potential- I know others already think it is).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    People seem to forget that WoW lacked a large amount of content when it first game up, it only had three or four instances, no end game, no pvp. It just seems people have joined WoW after it's already implemented three expansions and then insist every mmo that comes afterwards has to have the same level that WoW now has.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hombold wrote:
    It's pretty easy. They don't need the amount of content WoW has. But you can score points with interesting new ideas. Copy really good features (WoW does the same) and bring in your own ideas.

    The most important thing is: TAKE YOUR TIME! DON'T RUSH THINGS!

    No one will remember how long it takes to release a game. The only thing that will be remembered is how good it was.

    One fundamental problem is - development costs money. There is only so much money and debt you can risk and afford before you either go online with what you have, or fail. (Not that it's mutually exclusive :| ).

    In almost any type of enterprise we want more time to really polish things up. Car manufacurers, software developers, thesis writers. But - there are deadlines. Sure, some are set randomly or because they look nice on paper. But most are not. Some are optimistc. Some are simply required to make the whole enterprise worthwhile.

    Remember Duke Nukem Forever? You know their problem? They wanted to get it right. They really did. But - the world moved on, new technology came out. They wanted to use it. They reworked their game. The technology moved on, new technology came out. They wanted to use it. And at some point in this cycle the large amounts of money they had thanks to their initial success was used up. The cycle ended. The result was not an unpolished game. It was no game at all. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    I must have missed it, is there anything constructive in the OP? Seriously, not trolling, I want to know if I missed something.

    Not at all. Just another [edit] who thinks MMOs are like console games and should be "finished" when they ship. Too few people these days understand that MMOs are continually developed.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Seadgir
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Every mmo developer says things they can't meet, you shouldn't take what they say 100% guranteed and just learn to roll with the punches.

    Honestly? Take what they say about a product they're selling using statements as an enticement to buy, then not be annoyed when they don't deliver? That's the message?

    If I make a promise to a client and don't deliver, not only do I not have that client any more, but I can also get sued for a very large amount of money for breach of contract.

    Now, what I do is significantly different to producing a video game, but the concept of professionalism is still the same: Don't pay lipservice to your customers when you know you're not going to deliver. You wind up with angry people who used to be your customers.

    If you truly believe that it's okay to promise something and then not deliver to you but you still pay and just "roll with the punches," then I want to come work for you. It'd be nice to get paid to not do what I promised.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=94013

    For someone who was "Uninstalling this POS and cancelling" almost two months ago, you sure are keen on paying them to troll their boards.

    What's wrong, buddy? Couldn't deliver on your promises either? Can you open a forum so I can scream about your broken promises and failed expectations incessantly? Make sure I have to pay to access it as well so I can moan about how you're *forcing* me to buy a bad product...that's pretty key to my indignation.


    Yes, everyone agrees that the game needs work. Now kindly STFU if you've got nothing constructive to say.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kee-Bhor wrote: »
    First off I would like to raise a valid point I think everyone can agree on, STO is lacking massive chunks of content, right? Now, going back to what the people at Cryptic SAID would be included at launch (in many interviews, we all know the 2 factions issue), there is obviously some back-peddling going on here.

    Zinc himself stated that the fabled "45" day patch would include a "big injection of content" (his words), however, having been onto Tribble, I can see nothing but fluff/bug fixes, and the tiniest addition for Klingons (Star clusters and the chance to do Fleet actions /yawn). Now, when this patch was revealed by Zinc many speculated that it would indeed contain SOME sort of content to bring Klingons in line with the Federation faction, this has sadly not been the case.

    Why do Cryptic keep overstating/overhyping things? Do they think that the constant let downs and back peddling is ignored? I read in a post today that they are blaming WoW for the critical response to STO....WTF? Anyone with half a mind can see STO had blatant lack of content AND was was nearly a whole faction short on release plus it was missing the crafting which they intended.

    All I can say to the devs who worked on this product, you only have yourselves to blame, dont cry because people rightly condemn a half finished game. YOU get paid, you dont do this job for free. We, as paying customers should be delivered a working as advertised, fun, and polished product as per the interviews and ads.

    All I can see in the upcoming "patches" is stuff that SHOULD have been included at launch, and we are expected to thank them for this and praise them for delivering content that we have indeed already paid for (if the interviews were to be believed)? I wont go into the obvious cash-grab mechanics of Cryptics business model as that type of tactic is beneath contempt, either make STO FTP or include free content for paying customers.

    When all is said and done, Cryptic have failed to deliver on what they said they could and we are all paying for that lack of honesty/foresight. Literally.

    lol op nothing ypou say on these forums will ever make them even consider FTP. that being said more work went into the klingon starcluster missions than I think most people realize, not that it shpuldn't have been there at launch but you know they're different right? new locations new objectives ect. plus season 2 is specificly klink episodes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kee-Bhor wrote: »
    I am just amused that they blame WoW for STO' reception, I really laughed at that.
    This.

    The logic is staggering, "We can't compete because another car maker offers airbags, and now everyone expects airbags, and we don't know how to make them :(".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I agree with the OP 110%. Well written post mate. Ignore the Fanboi and Cryptic stealthed employees. They just don't want to admit to themselves that there beloved ship is sinking!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    TUX426 wrote: »
    Not at all. Just another whiner who thinks MMOs are like console games and should be "finished" when they ship. Too few people these days understand that MMOs are continually developed.

    LMFAO is this guy for real? There is a BIG difference between ready for launch and NOT ready, which is what I was sayin. I kniow MMo's have content added later but come on, you cant be that blind as to think STO has all it should at launch? That excuse just doesnt cut it, /fail.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Stelakh wrote: »
    Honestly? Take what they say about a product they're selling using statements as an enticement to buy, then not be annoyed when they don't deliver? That's the message?

    If I make a promise to a client and don't deliver, not only do I not have that client any more, but I can also get sued for a very large amount of money for breach of contract.

    Now, what I do is significantly different to producing a video game, but the concept of professionalism is still the same: Don't pay lipservice to your customers when you know you're not going to deliver. You wind up with angry people who used to be your customers.

    If you truly believe that it's okay to promise something and then not deliver to you but you still pay and just "roll with the punches," then I want to come work for you. It'd be nice to get paid to not do what I promised.

    All i'm saying is all MMOs claim to be planning something or including something etc and half the time they never deliver, its not just STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Basically what he is saying is that Cryotic did not deliver what they said they would at launch and they are not deliverying what they said they would on the big upcoming patch. I hope that clears it up for you. Now you can go back to drinking your special Cool Aid.

    Um.. Cryptic has been saying since Launch that the Content Update will be in June.. ala the Season 2 update..

    Don't know why everyone is expecting the Content Package in Season 1 when Cryptic stated Season 1 is to fix game issues (bugs / expolits) and Season 2 is for Content.

    Devs have stated it several times.. guess people just /fail when looking at dev posts and information or just skip over what is really said and assume what they want in the dev's response.
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