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Oh No We Will Never Get The Screen Cap Raised!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/246/star-trek-onlines-craig-zinkievich


Zinkie says they will not raise the cap because of all us RA 5's that would immediately level up cause, "It's the journey not the destination."

Bad Zinkie!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The introduction of the skill cap was quite a controversial change during the beta. Is there any chance that it may be reconsidered as more players reach end game?

    Anything can happen, but I wouldn’t expect the skill cap to go away. This is mostly due to the way players gain ranks in-game. Right now, the max “level” is Admiral Rank 5. If players were able to max out every skill in the game, if we raised it to Admiral Rank 10, players with maxed skills would instantly rank up to that rank, meaning they’d just bypass any of the new content we’d created for people to advance. And in STO, much like Star Trek itself, the journey is part of the reward.

    The journey is much more satisfying when you can level up... the 30k+ BO points i've accumulated aren't thrilling me...

    EDIT: correction, I have 66,623 unspent BO points. the definition of useless.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I agree, his reasoning is flawed.

    If he is the motivating force behind the changes or lack thereof, he needs to be approached and educated.

    BAD Zinkie!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    gee..kinda like getting 5 levels removed because of someones 'vision' guess since i hit cap i should be thankful i have all that grinding for..for..for..umm..what is there again?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kind of taken out of context, I understand the skill cap vs a future increase in level cap. But Cryptic, if you don't provide a way for players to increase their character PROGRESSION cap you won't need to worry about the day you raise the level cap.

    Another poster talked about the mega stock piles of bridge officer skill points. Hey, here is a free idea for you. how about a merchant that sells very rare bridge officers for BO points. Maybe have some of the captain only trainable skills on these guys, like engineer team 3. You can even make the skills hidden til purchase. Anything would be nice because right now those tens of thousands of BO points are a waste.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Let's "respect" the "screen cap"!

    :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes:

    "Skill cap" and "respec", darn it! Write it down. Correctly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Let's "respect" the "screen cap"!

    :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes:

    "Skill cap" and "respec", darn it! Write it down. Correctly.

    I donno, Im kinda liking this "screen cap" I think you may be on to something...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I spent a ton of points on 7 very rare BOs upon reaching RA. So there was a use for the points for a while. They are now however accumulating quite rapidly. I like the idea of buying rare BOs with them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The problem is that their system is flawed. Skill points, which are spent to unlock or improve abilities, are also the mechanism by which your rank and grade increase. What he means (and given the current mechanism, he's correct) is that removing the skill cap would guarantee that if they ever increased the level cap beyond RA5 most players would instantly gain however many levels were available.

    Their leveling system is broken. They can't let you spend more skillpoints because you'd immediately rank up as soon as the rank restriction was removed. If I had to guess, I suspect that they're aware of the issue (well, really, who isn't), and are trying to find an elegant way to fix it. Probably the respec system is a part of this, since they have to find a way for you to refund all of your skill points without regressing back to LT1.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Thrax73 wrote:
    how about a merchant that sells very rare bridge officers for BO points.
    I really like the Idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The problem is that their system is flawed. Skill points, which are spent to unlock or improve abilities, are also the mechanism by which your rank and grade increase. What he means (and given the current mechanism, he's correct) is that removing the skill cap would guarantee that if they ever increased the level cap beyond RA5 most players would instantly gain however many levels were available.

    And that's still only half of the issue.

    It's not a good idea to have every captain able to pilot every type of starship to its fullest, know each and every science system inside and out, be a specialist in 3 different types of ground combat, etc etc...

    It doesn't make sense from a gameplay standpoint or from an in-character point of view.

    In a universe all about bringing together so many different peoples, why must everyone be the same?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Cost wrote: »
    ...It's not a good idea to have every captain able to pilot every type of starship to its fullest, know each and every science system inside and out, be a specialist in 3 different types of ground combat, etc etc...

    It doesn't make sense from a gameplay standpoint or from an in-character point of view.

    In a universe all about bringing together so many different peoples, why must everyone be the same?


    I only disagree with the part commanding various ship classes since Picard or Kirk or Sisko or Janeway are able to Captain any kind of ship. As far as being specialized into engineering/science/tactical I totally agree. Picard/Janeway were scientists. Sisko was an engineer. Kirk was the soldier. None of them could "do it all".

    Your last sentence is spot on and I totally agree. There is no reason to have no skill cap and max out everything. It's a ridiculous idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I only disagree with the part commanding various ship classes since Picard or Kirk or Sisko or Janeway are able to Captain any kind of ship. As far as being specialized into engineering/science/tactical I totally agree. Picard/Janeway were scientists. Sisko was an engineer. Kirk was the soldier. None of them could "do it all".

    Your last sentence is spot on and I totally agree. There is no reason to have no skill cap and max out everything. It's a ridiculous idea.

    Mm, maybe. I'm not that well versed. I'd think, however, that Picard is more at home and confident in a Galaxy than say, a Defiant... Which could be equated to skills in the Cruiser line in-game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Cost wrote: »
    And that's still only half of the issue.

    It's not a good idea to have every captain able to pilot every type of starship to its fullest, know each and every science system inside and out, be a specialist in 3 different types of ground combat, etc etc...

    It doesn't make sense from a gameplay standpoint or from an in-character point of view.

    In a universe all about bringing together so many different peoples, why must everyone be the same?

    Just because everyone has the same spec does not mean they will play the same way. Character customization is not seen from skill choices, its seen from gear choices. Just because everyone can do everything does not mean they will do everything. Not to mention you can still only captain one ship at a time.

    2 max skilled tactical captains will still be unique in their equipment choices. A cruiser with phaser banks and quantum torps is very different from an escort with disruptor cannons and transphasic torps. Just that the second may have a science vessel sitting in Earth space dock he could switch to if a healer is needed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Can't remember specific episode titles and such, but Picard was always known to be an archaelogist of sorts, Janeway served as a science officer and Sisko helped design the Defiant.

    I think each of them would be able to command any kind of ship effectively. They do have officers specialized in various disciplines to help. :) Sisko may be the exception with the Defiant since he helped design it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Gouv wrote:
    I really like the Idea.

    I'll take the very rare captain's yeoman
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    WLMF wrote:
    2 max skilled tactical captains will still be unique in their equipment choices. A cruiser with phaser banks and quantum torps is very different from an escort with disruptor cannons and transphasic torps. Just that the second may have a science vessel sitting in Earth space dock he could switch to if a healer is needed.

    What you are looking for is for 1 character to be a "Jack of all trades and master of everything". This is like wanting my Martial Arts/Regeneration scrapper in CoX to be able to tank, heal, damage, crowd control, buff/debuff etc. whenever the situation calls for it. That's not how it works. This is why there are different classes in MMOs.

    Again, if you can max out every available skill, then there is no reason to have a skill tree to begin with. One person may use phasers instead of disruptors, but ultimately everyone is the same.

    I'd also disagree with the statement that "character customization is not seen from skill choices". Of course it is. Watch the TNG Episode "Tapestry" sometime. That's a good example of how career (skillpoint) choices developed Picard into the Captain he became.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    WLMF wrote:
    Just because everyone has the same spec does not mean they will play the same way. Character customization is not seen from skill choices, its seen from gear choices. Just because everyone can do everything does not mean they will do everything. Not to mention you can still only captain one ship at a time.

    2 max skilled tactical captains will still be unique in their equipment choices. A cruiser with phaser banks and quantum torps is very different from an escort with disruptor cannons and transphasic torps. Just that the second may have a science vessel sitting in Earth space dock he could switch to if a healer is needed.
    I see what you're saying, but here's what I see: Now, we can customize our Captain's Skills and their Gear for more specialized roles or damage types. You want to take away the skill boosts and make it reliant only on gear. Effectively halving our options for customization.

    Because really, when everyone has everything... Isn't that the same as everyone having nothing? The same numbers, with a higher value. Everyone deals 10 damage instead of 3.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think a large part of the problem in this game is the leveling curve. It's inverted.

    It took me longer to get from the start to Lt. Commander than it did to get from Captain to RA5. That's completely backward.

    Low levels should be quick... and leveling should slow down the higher you get.

    That's basic RPG structure.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Thlaylie wrote: »
    [
    Zinkie says they will not raise the cap because of all us RA 5's that would immediately level up cause, "It's the journey not the destination."

    Does he not think before he speaks?

    Journey? Isn't that WHAT IS MISSING?????

    The Journey = Content (right?)

    So he is saying, we have a cap because we need to be able to enjoy content which doesn't (and wont till April) exist. Of all the ignorant statements I have seen in my time, that one takes the cake!

    "Yeah, um we can't have a capless system because you won't enjoy 'the journey'"

    HOW ABOUT ADDING THE DAMN JOURNEY at least?!?!?!?!?!

    Jeeeeesus
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    omg wait so when we have done everything and maxed our level he says he doesn't want to raise the cap, wtf are we supposed to keep on doing?

    It ain't like this is Everquest and we didn't explore some content, we've done everything!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Does he not think before he speaks?

    Journey? Isn't that WHAT IS MISSING?????

    The Journey = Content (right?)

    So he is saying, we have a cap because we need to be able to enjoy content which doesn't (and wont till April) exist. Of all the ignorant statements I have seen in my time, that one takes the cake!

    "Yeah, um we can't have a capless system because you won't enjoy 'the journey'"

    HOW ABOUT ADDING THE DAMN JOURNEY at least?!?!?!?!?!

    Jeeeeesus

    LOL, and yes I agree with you :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    In the end they would not be that rare because everyone would have them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    HOW ABOUT ADDING THE DAMN JOURNEY at least?!?!?!?!?!

    I'd love to know how you got to RA 5 without doing a single mission. There is a "journey" in the game. Obviously it isn't a sufficient one for you, but it is there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yep there is a journey, I seen it, and it replays over, and over and over and over and over and over again.

    This journey you speak of is the same thing from E1 - RA5.

    Kill everything that stands in the Federation's path. Oh wait there are exploration missions, but, you have to kill more groups of something or other.

    Yeah nice journey they speak of.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'd love to know how you got to RA 5 without doing a single mission. There is a "journey" in the game. Obviously it isn't a sufficient one for you, but it is there.

    Have yet to get a toon to RA 5 (I have a strict DP, die = remake)

    I have been playing since open beta.

    Every mission is the same:

    "Kill 5 (or 6) squadrons"
    "Scan 3 to 5 anomalies (planet/space/cargo crates/flowers/old base computers)"
    "Kill 5 (or 6) groups of bad guys"

    There may be one or two types I am missing. Needless to say I have done a single mission, the only mission there is:

    "Do 3 to 6 of something"

    Wash, rinse, repeat.

    (EDIT To Add: )
    I figured the topic would veer to "Get a RA5 then you can talk." BS. So in preperation, read this before making that comment:
    Ignoratio elenchi (also known as irrelevant conclusion or irrelevant thesis) is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question. "Ignoratio elenchi" can be roughly translated by ignorance of refutation, that is, ignorance of what a refutation could logically be; "elenchi" (genitive singular of the Latin elenchus) is from the Greek ἔλεγχος, meaning an argument of disproof or refutation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

    More specifically:
    The genetic fallacy is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context.

    The fallacy therefore fails to assess the claim on its merit. The first criterion of a good argument is that the premises must have bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim in question. Genetic accounts of an issue may be true, and they may help illuminate the reasons why the issue has assumed its present form, but they are irrelevant to its merits.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Thlaylie wrote: »
    http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/246/star-trek-onlines-craig-zinkievich


    Zinkie says they will not raise the cap because of all us RA 5's that would immediately level up cause, "It's the journey not the destination."

    Bad Zinkie!

    Thats not what Zinc is saying, he is trying to explain that if all players were allowed to max out all skills in the skill tree, before they add any further Grades (Levels), players would instantly increase in Grades (Levels) and bypass content when new Grades (Levels) are added.

    This is instant jump would be due to Grades (Levels) being achieved / unlocked due to the amount of XP earned and the amount of skills the player has trained in before having the Grades (Levels) available to them.

    What he's saying is that they need to add more Grades (Levels) or more Ranks before they increase or even remove the skill cap.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yep there is a journey, I seen it, and it replays over, and over and over and over and over and over again.

    You're describing every MMO. Sooner or later, they become repetitive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You're describing every MMO. Sooner or later, they become repetitive.

    Yeah you are right, except this game became repetitive after the first few missions is the problem.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yeah you are right, except this game became repetitive after the first few missions is the problem.

    After the FIRST MISSION.

    Sorry wanted to correct that for you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    After the FIRST MISSION.

    Sorry wanted to correct that for you.

    SHHHHH I was trying to be nice. :p
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