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STO - An Objective Look

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
1. Level Based Games - They Almost Never Last the Test of Time

It is an issue of character development, I should not be able to look at a player and instantly know if I can beat them or not. I think that Ultima online and EVE really have something to add here. Star Trek has a TON of skills, abilities, and techno-babble, which can be used in an EVE / UO style system. Plus, the spirit of Star Trek is such that an Ensign can be an expert on shield harmonics, or boosting phaser power. They likely won't have all the tricks of an Admiral, but some people don't want to be an Admiral. Some people want to do like all the great Captains, and stay in their Chair for a very long time.

My character could train in the holodeck when I am offline. Wives around the world would rejoice if systems like this were more common, and they would not feel like they want to get dinner over with so they can go back and grind some more. More homework would get done if the learning rate when logged off was faster than logged on. Many parents would be happy and keep paying monthlies because their kids grades didn't sink.

Let me train up my skills, gain certifications, become an expert in some areas, and if I meet the minimum requirements, let me request that my record be considered for promotion. A Cap can be used to ensure people tweak custom builds to suit their roles and ships as opposed to being "perfect" players. UO had a nice skill capping system, or people could use the EVE system where it would take several years to have a "maxxed" charactar - though new skills could always be added to prevent this.

Currently the feeling is that in level based MMOs the game does not begin until you max level, and THEN they convert into a skill based game. It's like paying a penance before the REAL game starts.

2. Many People Don't Like Being Forced to Team Repetitive Content - The Everquest Flaw

There are ways to add difficulty which don't include adding monsters or making them 5x as powerful. Giving them better tactics, abilities, defensive moves, letting them use space objects as cover or as a gravity assisted escape or planetary atmospheres as sensor cover would be good examples. The "difficulty slider bar" could be used to affect the drop change of good gear.

3. Ground Combat is a Clickfest

I am pretty sure most of us played Call of Duty MWF2, and would like some real ground action that does not involve tribbles - but where some real squad based maneuvering could be fun. I personally refuse to do any and all STO ground missions, as they are a time vampire of click-through dialogues where no decisions need to be made. Some MassEffect2 style mini-games to reroute power would be a LOT more interesting than watching my character wave a tricorder around 5 consoles and hear from my ops officer that everything is a-ok. First person options please! No auto-aiming, or at least a damage bonus for choosing not to use auto-aim!

4. Ship Loadout

There are a lot more components to a starship than just weapons and impulse engines. 10 Slots just does not cut it. You can't have a ship without an EPS system, it makes no sense. There should be a slot for EVERY primary and secondary system that is common to a starship. Those slots could have standard equipment in the base ship with possibly some empty "enhancer" slots, but there should be many upgrades - not confined to a particular MK rating that could be used on a ship. I should be able to buy an enhanced warp core to upgrade as well, or at least parts to boost its performance like new plasma injectors or enhanced deuterium injectors. Of course, each ship should have a tonnage maximum for certain system mounts, but I should care about my ship at least as much as my characters skills.

Again, I think EVE has the crown here. Calculating weight and power and CPU cycles of a given item to gauge whether using it is worth it - and using the market to search for gear, was actually the most fun I had playing. What I definitely disliked was losing my ship, but I don't think that is needed in STO.

There is no reason that FvF and KvK cannot be explained as Holomatches or low weapon power combat simulations - where upon death you warp to a start point on the map.

For PvE and FvK matches, I think skills could be used to avoid ship destruction. When death is close or imminent, pop-up boxes could do the following:

Full Impulse to nearby in-zone star/planet/nebula/asteroid where a ship could orbit or land and complete repairs at an accelerated rate and then have a option to rejoin combat. Anyone who watches Star Trek knows that escaping is an art, and possibly a simple power routing mini-game could be used to get harder when more damage is taken and determine if you really manage to escape and repair.

Upon actual death due to engines being offline or if you are stuck in a tractor beam, then you could re-emerge at Spacedock and have an option to take a one-way Transwarp gate to the map where you died. Voyager used one of these to go 5000 light years - they can be aimed. This would take a little longer than if you had managed to escape, you would still have your ship as it was configured. Possibly 45 seconds out of the match while in Transwarp to the start location.

5. Crafting

STO has a great amount of particles and minerals, but engineers, tactical and science officers could be used to make components which could eventually result in warp cores and enhanced weapons, or shields with custom attributes. If we allow particles to stack in more than 50 and allow scanning to "mine" more than a few particles at a time and use them as a resource, we could actually use the exchange in a real economy.

SWG had a decent crafting system, so did Ultima Online. I think the Daystrum Institute could be a great place for players to gather, create and share blueprints for custom gear, and trade. A holodeck could be used to "simulate" crafting to see what properties new materials have, and to see if they would work when used as say, warp core containment shielding, or ablative hull armor. Simply list the primary components in each part, specify if they are a metal, gas, liquid, plasma, etc, and let people mix and match to see what happens, and if they stumble upon a good combination, they can create a blueprint and try a manufacturing run. This would create competition for player made goods.

6. Quests

There are like 1500 episodes in the Trek Universe, I would like to see an "Epic Arc" that lets me do the missions of the series. DS9 for a 180 quest chain where I actually race through jefferies tubes and have to remodulate the shield array! Mini-games really shine to complete objectives, as does first person interaction with my environment. I would like to have to run from my bridge to Stabilize the warp core.

How about a Voyager Epic Arc, in my Star Cruiser! A holodeck could be used, and bonus skill training speed, epic blueprints, special minerals or unique weapons and devices could be given. Possibly new abilities and tactics that are learned in the delta quadrant which could be used in PvP only by those who have completed the epic arc.

I think a SDK for the community to submit content for consideration would crowd-source the power of the Trek followers and speed development.

7. Skills

Skills aren't very clear, and advanced skills should have prerequisites. People should know all systems and effects that are enhanced by a skill, and what advanced skills it might lead to. Also, some items that replace standard federation parts like Delta Quadrant Tetryon Enhanced EPS Conduits, could require a skill to use - and provide enhanced power to weapon grids but reduced power to the warp drive.

We could also have new, universal learned abilities like the Picard maneuver which could be obtained through epic quest arcs. A character could have several in their characters ability, but only a few loaded into the computer for use with a special protocol module and database pad on the captains chair. Special Borg shield modulations or phaser enhancements could be loaded if people know their going to face that particular threat.

8. Speed

I should not be able to make dual Admirals within 30 days. Please add content so that leveling is not the only goal, let people enjoy their ship. Let them buff it, customize it, know all the ins and outs, and continue to use it when they make the next rank. Let them craft, and possibly just be the best T2 ship that is possible.

Also, ships need to be more resilient and not pop at the first sign of trouble, if people have alternate methods to escape and repair and even Transwarp back after death, people would be a lot more wary of death instead of just doing constant kamikaze runs.

Lastly, I should be able to Warp out of combat. This is done constantly in the Universe, and it makes no sense to prevent it. This is the kind of thing that makes people not value the loss of their ship and results in constant Kamikaze runs. People need escape vectors, and pursuit options - if we are to liven combat up. I should be able to target a tractor emitter and try to escape, a pop-up option could be used when the ship is snared.




I wanted to make a note about the scope of the game - which I think is the main issue. It seems so much effort was spent on a finishing what is basically a very simple game of leveling 1 to 45, that scope was narrowed. Now it seems like future development is being aimed at taking that narrowed scope, and just stretching it longer. I think the scope should be widened instead. I know that's not easy or cheap, but people need more to do than just PvP or McQuests. A real economy, crafting, ship system tweaking, advanced power routing (not 3 slider bars), skill based advancement, would prevent gameplay from becoming stale.

MMOs that survive have good balance, and if they dont make big changes to core pieces that are flawed, they will stagnate. After time, it will be harder to change things that people knew weren't perfect from the beginning. The game is visually stunning, and I like the audio, but the mechanics needs to be built up and the scope expanded if it is going to be around as long as Warcraft. People STILL play Ultima Online - 13 years later. I would like to see STO the same way, but it's never going to happen if STO just turns into a slightly complicated Space arcade fighter game with no other real dimension of complexity or interest.

I know the developers are doing the best they can, and they may be limited by management in the scope they can do, but they should remind the financiers that unless short term profit is all they want, you can't sustain a game without adding depth and re-playability.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'm not here to refute your assessment. It is your perception and opinion, which is as valid as your ability to breath (which is as about as valid as you can get). I just want to point out that "objectivity" is not a valorizing concept. Strictly speaking it is a condition that does not exist. We cannot ever be objective. It is a myth.

    I do want to commend you on the care and thought you put into your post. It is nice to see decent writing show up on any forum. Good show!

    I agree with the level based progression system being archaic. This needs to be corrected in the general scope of the genre. STO cannot change in this way at this point. That mistake has been made once with tragic results. It is a design direction that really should not be taken.

    I like your take on crafting. There is some potentual there.

    I can see where people have problems with the speed of leveling as you do. this can be problematic. I have a RA5 and a couple of alts I poke with. still, the jury is still out for me on the speed. I'm not sure what I think about it yet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The refutation of your basic premise is many fold, and like your basic premise, a matter of opinion.

    I disagree that the real game in MMORPGs begins at the level cap. In several MMORPGs leveling up IS the game, reading the story is what you are paying for entertainment wise. And when you reach the level cap in some MMORPGs the entire purpose is to roll another combination that you would find entertaining and run through the game with your friends (or different friends) again. Because communities are why people stay in MMOs. Fighting with and against friends, beating and being beaten by your pals, adventuring with them in a variety of circumstances, getting creative when the devs get creative or when the game/mission glitches out on you.

    And while I do not like the endless click-throughs of the ground missions I do very much enjoy the story lines that necessitates them. I'm open to alternative means of delivering said story.

    As for removing the level cap, the skill generation system would have to be 90% rewritten. Each skill currently has a cap, in addition to the overall cap on the number of skill points you get. If you just let people continue to accrue skills above RA5 then everyone will simply max out every skill. How bland, no real choices to be made other than WHEN to acquire a given skill.

    Don't misunderstand me, I agree that more needs to be added to the game. Several more skill trees and hopefully ranks of Commodore, RA, Vice Admiral, Admiral, and Fleet Admiral. Adding the missing starting rank of Lt. JG (Junior Grade) wouldn't hurt either.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    A level cap itself isn't always a bad thing, what the devs of STO failed to provide was a way to progress a character once the level cap was achieved.

    I am not a big fan of faction grinding. But even that would be better then the empty plate presented to players once you reach maximum level.

    It's not always about gear, enhancing a character can come in a variety of ways. STO should have looked more closely at Star Trek and said to themselves, what have we got here to work with that fits the genre.

    Well Starfleet loves to explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations. Why not have a way to allow a character to improve by unlocking new skills, specialized bridge officers, and adapting alien technology by progressing through exploration.

    Starfleet has some trouble borders. Progressing a character via patrol missions in the neutral zone could unlock new combat strategies, new skills, renown (fame) etc.

    Starfleet has 3 exciting branches of service. How could we expand on these? Could Engineers get better overtime unlocking higher bonus powerlevels to their ships. Could Science expand on proven technologies making them better. Could Tactical master the art of space and ground combat.

    Character Progression. Its not something you can place on the back burner.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I appreciate the well considered responses, insofar as it being impossible to be objective I have to agree to the philosophical point but I don't think that should stop people from trying to aspire to it.

    I'm mostly interested in sparking debate and thinking on the subject of design. It is possible to make major changes, it just takes courage to admit there might be a better design method and then use the test server to test it.

    I see so much potential for the game to grow, but I think my central thesis that the games scope needs to be widened holds true. When I think about how I spend my time on my Admiral and General - it's just PvP. The added content is sort of like adding a chapter to the end of a book, one at a time. I will always be able to read it faster than someone else can write and produce it. Instead, I think some type of open ended aspects need to be added to the game so that I can spend "down" time doing something to improve my performance when I am actually doing PvP or PvE. Here are some of the things that were "meaningful" expenditures of time in previous games:

    Resource Gathering
    Item Crafting
    Camping / Hunting for Rare Spawns with Special Items
    Open PvP Hunting
    Dungeon Romps with Random Drops

    I also feel as though the "Epic" Items aren't very Epic. Having 200 Shield Cap over a blue item is not epic when the whole value is 6000. It seems like everyone has the same gear in their respective professions, and there is little variability in use. Even Tachyon and Polaron and Anti-Proton aren't used in most cases because people don't want to waste the "points" so they are effectively priced out of use in terms of skill tier points. There is not enough incentive to use these skills, such as most people not having ground skills because they arent used most of the time.

    What if "Ground" skills were a totally different selection - so people could pick the space and ground skills independently of each other. I for one am not going to spend points on ground skills if it hurts my space game, because space is where I spend 90% of my time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The OP wrote a very good post, though it also has a glaring flaw.

    You are looking for a deep, rich, fulfilling game. Unfortunately, this one was produced by Cryptic. Have a look at their history with MMOs, you will not find such a game among their offerings. Cryptic doesn't do 'deep' games, they never have. I'm not even sure they have the talent or experience necessary on staff to do so. They do quick, and simple games. If you are truly looking for more, you will have better luck looking elsewhere, as it just isn't in the cards here.
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