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tlhIngan neH Qu'!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The title is written in Klingon to symbolize that it does not matter what language we speak, no one is listening. From the last estimate I've read they won't be adding Klingon content beyond it's current pre-beta state until the patch FOLLOWING the 45(52?)(60?)(90??) Day patch. Fail.

I want all of the devs working on Klingon content. I want food and Red Bull brought to them. As a matter of fact, I want plumbers brought in to remove the devs chairs and have toilets installed instead so that they don't have to get up for anything. If five servers go down and there is switch right behind a dev that could turn them back on, I don't want him to move from his sparkling new chair (toilet) to flip that switch!

G E T
T H I S
F I N I S H E D ! ! !
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I want them to remove the Klingon faction entirely so that they have time to make more content for the federation side. You think either of us is going to get what we want?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yes, Cryptic should immediately stop working on the faction the vast majority of the players want to play, and divert all their focus to a small fraction of the audience. Because that's the secret of success!

    Reminder on the comparative numbers in the canon:

    Seasons of Federation shows: 28
    Seasons of Klingon shows: 0

    Federation movies: 11
    Klingon movies: 0

    You keep on tilting at those windmills, Don Quixote; one of 'em's bound to be a dragon eventually.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    syberghost wrote: »
    Yes, Cryptic should immediately stop working on the faction the vast majority of the players want to play, and divert all their focus to a small fraction of the audience.

    This is due to the pre-beta state of the Klingon faction at present. If it were completed the odds would be much more even if not higher on the Klingon side.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OpenSorce wrote: »
    This is due to the pre-beta state of the Klingon faction at present. If it were completed the odds would be much more even if not higher on the Klingon side.

    Despite the fact that a majority of people play Fed it is logical to assume that is because many of us are waiting for the content first.... in fact my Main (Vox) is lvl 7 and waiting for content before I progress, my alt (Faerin) is RA.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OpenSorce wrote: »
    This is due to the pre-beta state of the Klingon faction at present. If it were completed the odds would be much more even if not higher on the Klingon side.

    That's not what the research both Perpetual and Cryptic did indicates. Not to mention Paramount and CBS's conclusions, and Pocket Books. Klingon fans are a small minority of the fanbase, and have been for 43 years. STO hasn't changed that, and won't change it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    syberghost wrote: »
    That's not what the research both Perpetual and Cryptic did indicates. Not to mention Paramount and CBS's conclusions, and Pocket Books. Klingon fans are a small minority of the fanbase, and have been for 43 years. STO hasn't changed that, and won't change it.

    There is a huge difference between fans of the Klingons and people who would play them. I've read that Blizzard did similar research and expected only 20 or so percent of the WoW population would ever play Horde. Anyone who plays or has played WoW can tell you those results were misleading.

    As a matter of fact, my all time favorite Trek characters are Spock, Picard, Data and Worf. In that order. All SF officers. I play Klingon exclusively. See the point?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    syberghost wrote: »
    Yes, Cryptic should immediately stop working on the faction the vast majority of the players want to play, and divert all their focus to a small fraction of the audience. Because that's the secret of success!

    Reminder on the comparative numbers in the canon:

    Seasons of Federation shows: 28
    Seasons of Klingon shows: 0

    Federation movies: 11
    Klingon movies: 0

    You keep on tilting at those windmills, Don Quixote; one of 'em's bound to be a dragon eventually.

    This isnt a TV show or a movie, its an MMO that is supposed to have 2 factions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    This isnt a TV show or a movie, its an MMO that is supposed to have 2 factions.

    ^^This

    Yeah, that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OpenSorce wrote: »
    There is a huge difference between fans of the Klingons and people who would play them. I've read that Blizzard did similar research and expected only 20 or so percent of the WoW population would ever play Horde. Anyone who plays or has played WoW can tell you those results were misleading.

    As a matter of fact, my all time favorite Trek characters are Spock, Picard, Data and Worf. In that order. All SF officers. I play Klingon exclusively. See the point?

    I always wondered who decided the Horde was the bad guys. They didnt kill any more defensless animals than the Alliance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    This isnt a TV show or a movie, its an MMO that is supposed to have 2 factions.
    The word in red is the key to your sentence. This game's supposed to have a lot of things. It doesn't. One supposed doesn't mean more then another. Do you allocate resources to where the majority of fans are or to the minority side? Assuming a fixed number of devs Cryptic is always going to be under-supporting somewhere. Every Klingon pve mission written, designed, and tested means one less Federation pve mission that could be in the game. Cryptic has the data. They know where most of their fans are playing. The smart move is to shore-up the majority side first. Of course Cryptic's probably going to try and do both, which means both sides are going to be dissatisfied with the long waits and dribbles of content put in over the next year. In the long run they'll probably lose more fans due to the slow implementation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Riprow wrote:
    The word in red is the key to your sentence.

    Of course it is, since we DONT actually have two factions(we have 1.5), but thank you for stating the obvious.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    wrote:
    Of course it is, since we DONT actually have two factions(we have 1.5), but thank you for stating the obvious.
    Well sometimes you must state the obivious to some people.

    As I said above, the game was supposed to have had a lot of things if you followed all the dev statements for the last couple of years. Most of those things didn't make it in. The fact that you want to focus on this one and make it more important then all the other things left out is just stupid. As you said in another thread earlier today. The game is what it is. What it was 'supposed' to be is pointless now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Riprow wrote:
    Well sometimes you must state the obivious to some people.

    As I said above, the game was supposed to have had a lot of things if you followed all the dev statements for the last couple of years. Most of those things didn't make it in. The fact that you want to focus on this one and make it more important then all the other things left out is just stupid. As you said in another thread earlier today. The game is what it is. What it was 'supposed' to be is pointless now.

    Actually... no. It isn't pointless, see in multiple interviews, on the box cover, in their advertising, etc. Cryptic and Atari stated that these things would be the way STO would be. Failure to deliver at this point is misrepresentation and possibly leaving Cryptic/Atari in a very actionable position, legally speaking. Beyond this, I have not completely lost my faith in either companies' respective ability to keep their word. That said... INSTALL THE TOILETS!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Riprow wrote:
    Do you allocate resources to where the majority of fans are or to the minority side?
    Players aren't playing Klingon due to lack of content.
    You feel new content should go to the faction most players are playing.
    Do you see the circular logic here?

    Fact is, a number of players aren't playing at all due to lack of Klingon content, and some of us are holding on to see if Cryptic will deliver. Yes, I'm playing Fed now, but if I don't see meaningful commitment to the Klingon faction soon, I'm not long for this game. I suspect I'm not alone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    This isnt a TV show or a movie, its an MMO that is supposed to have 2 factions.

    that really needs four factions. Klingon, Federation, Cardassian and Romulan need to be represented though I would expect that the Cardassians would be under represented and the Romulans would probably be a force to be reckoned with even with their flighty ideas of honor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    This isnt a TV show or a movie, its an MMO that is supposed to have 2 factions.

    So was City of Heroes. It took a year and a half to get the second faction. They could have chosen to give you NOTHING until they had EVERYTHING, but they chose to be nice and give what they had. You folks have done a very good job making them regret that gift.

    Klingon faction isn't a necessity. Remember, Klingons weren't even popular until they were the Federation's allies; they could have just left them that way. Probably should have, since there's been so much whining. This totally justifies Roddenberry's stance against having a Klingon on TNG in the first place. It's fortunate for you guys that when talked into having one, he changed the whole background to make Klingons the honorable race and Romulans the sneaky backstabbers; in TOS it was the other way around.

    Based on the folks on these forums, he probably should have made Ferengi the honorable race and Klingons the whiny little selfish one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kolikos wrote:
    Players aren't playing Klingon due to lack of content.
    You feel new content should go to the faction most players are playing.
    Do you see the circular logic here?
    The circular logic is the fact that you don't understand that Cryptic has hard data. They know exactly how many Klingon characters are made versus how many Federation. I'm not even talking about playing. I'm talking about actual character percentage. That's something you and I can only guess at but I feel it's probably much lower for Klingons then you imagine.

    I completely understand that you want more Klingon content. I hope you can understand that I want more Federation content. Are you going to be happy with 15 new STFs a year? Am I? There's never going to be enough content put out to keep both of us happy for the next year and because of that Cryptic's probably going to lose us both.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I love the fanbois....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    syberghost wrote: »
    So was City of Heroes. It took a year and a half to get the second faction.

    The difference is, COH didnt launched with a half finished faction to be mocked by players and reviewers alike. STO did, so now Cryptic has to fix their mistake.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Riprow wrote:
    The circular logic is the fact that you don't understand that Cryptic has hard data. They know exactly how many Klingon characters are made versus how many Federation. I'm not even talking about playing. I'm talking about actual character percentage. That's something you and I can only guess at but I feel it's probably much lower for Klingons then you imagine.

    I completely understand that you want more Klingon content. I hope you can understand that I want more Federation content. Are you going to be happy with 15 new STFs a year? Am I? There's never going to be enough content put out to keep both of us happy for the next year and because of that Cryptic's probably going to lose us both.

    I will be happy when my content is just as equal to yours as my monthly subscription fee is. Now, I'm not bagging on you for asking for more content. I just want them to finish building the east side of the house before you work on redecorating the west side :-)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Riprow wrote:
    The circular logic is the fact that you don't understand that Cryptic has hard data. They know exactly how many Klingon characters are made versus how many Federation.

    Heh. Too bad players can't make a Klingon without rolling a Fed first.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Heh. Too bad players can't make a Klingon without rolling a Fed first.

    Not to mention the fact that one of the major reasons there are so few Klingons compared to Feds is the total lack of a PvE game. If Klingons actually had a real game to play, you can bet they would have twice as many people playing them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Riprow wrote:
    The circular logic is the fact that you don't understand that Cryptic has hard data.
    No, Cryptic has a marketing study. That's about as far from "hard data" as you can get and still be legal.
    I completely understand that you want more Klingon content. I hope you can understand that I want more Federation content.
    I hope you can understand that a well-developed Klingon faction might actually create content that Fed players can enjoy. Cross-faction rivalry; cross-faction guilds; more cooperative or competitive PvE; PvP that doesn't rely on queues, meaningless arena matches, or illusory wargames - heck, a developed Klink faction could even just give you something to try out when you just don't feel like playing your Fed on a given night.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Riprow wrote:
    I completely understand that you want more Klingon content. I hope you can understand that I want more Federation content.

    I actually want BOTH because I care about the game as a whole more than just the faction I play(Fed).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    wrote:
    I will be happy when my content is just as equal to yours as my monthly subscription fee is. Now, I'm not bagging on you for asking for more content. I just want them to finish building the east side of the house before you work on redecorating the west side :-)
    As I've said twice now. Cryptic doesn't seem to have the manpower to create enough content quickly enough to keep either of us happy. While they're writing Klingon content to please 20-40% of their fans the 60-80% are dropping out due to having nothing new to do. Right now STO on the fed side has no replay. You need to do every mission and multiple exploration missions just to get to RA5. After you go through the game once most of the thrill's gone. There's no more mystery in finding new episodes and hidden gems. In a game that only takes around 75 hours to reach level cap replay's a must-have. Without it STO's dead to many of us in 3 months.

    The smart move in any business is to please your majority. The smart move for Cryptic would be to spend the next year pumping material into the federation side to more then double the current content. Then, next year, come out with a huge Klingon faction expansion. Then follow that up Ronulans or whomever. let's be real. You're not going to be satisfied with 20 pve missions, which is about 1 every 2.5 weeks. And you know they can't hold that pace anyway.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kolikos wrote:
    No, Cryptic has a marketing study. That's about as far from "hard data" as you can get and still be legal.
    You do understand that Cryptic's computers track data every minute of every day? They know exactly how many people are playing at any given minute. They know exactly how many characters have been made and how many accounts there are: active and inactive. We're not talking about any type of guessing here. They know to the actual person who's doing what every minute of every day.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Riprow wrote:
    The smart move in any business is to please your majority. The smart move for Cryptic would be to spend the next year pumping material into the federation side to more then double the current content. Then, next year, come out with a huge Klingon faction expansion. Then follow that up Ronulans or whomever. let's be real. You're not going to be satisfied with 20 pve missions, which is about 1 every 2.5 weeks. And you know they can't hold that pace anyway.

    Unfortunately the "please the majority" logic essentially means the minority NEVER gets anything. Dont get me wrong, I read what you said up there about after a year of focusing on the Feds then they could focus on others. However, that is one of those things that sounds good on paper but doesnt actually work. The reason is beacuse a year of development = about a month of gameplay; two at most.

    If you want proof of that, just see how many people were max level a week after this game launched. And guess what happens after people burn through that content that took a year to make? They'll want more. So then you either have to ignore your majority to focus on the minority like you had planned to do, or you ignore the minority again and spend another year working on the majority.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    And now, a word from our sponsor (Developer):

    STO.nl: Just last week it was announced that the Klingons are more of an additional advancement path for players looking for PvP combat and that they will not have access to any robust PvE content. Can you explain why this decision was made?

    Craig: There are tough decisions that have to be made when you get close to launch. We felt that other parts of the game would have lacked if we tried to hurry along the PvE portion for Klingons. If the community really wants more PvE content for Klingons then it is something we will definitely look at adding in after launch. That is the nice thing about MMOs is that they are constant work in progress and you can add things in that you couldn’t fit in at launch.

    yes I know, link or it didn't happen:
    http://www.startrekonline.nl/sto-nl-interview-met-craig-zinkievich-klingons/
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OpenSorce wrote: »
    I will be happy when my content is just as equal to yours as my monthly subscription fee is. Now, I'm not bagging on you for asking for more content. I just want them to finish building the east side of the house before you work on redecorating the west side :-)

    I'm a Fed, and I'll probably remain a Fed, because I don't like Klingons. I can think of a handfull of times when I've seen Klingons who were actually interesting and developed characters, but the race itself totally bores me and breaks my suspension of disbelief. On the show, they're a one-note race of complete morons who are too busy drinking and grunting and headbutting each other to have ever seriously managed to master space travel. How exactly do these animalistic savages compete with the combined resources of every single Federation race? It's a tremendous plot hole.

    But when it comes to STO, I want Klings to have all the stuff we have as well. The game does not belong to one faction, and will only benefit from a fully-realized Klingon side.

    Look, we know that the game was rushed out early, with a lot of stuff not yet complete.

    The first patch is probably stuff that was half-complete already at the time of the launch, or stuff that can be completed very, very quickly (star clusters), and most of it probably dates back to before they had much response from the playerbase.

    They're not focusing on the Feds. They're adding whatever they already had partly done and can add after only a month. Everything else is going to have to wait. Not because the Devs don't want to make it, but because it's going to take time. The Klingons were rushed out half-finished to met the demands of people who are now demanding that they rush out more half-finished content.

    The only thing I can possibly see you complaining legitimately about are the new races, which are silly and unnecessary and a waste of money and manpower that could probably be working towards some sweet custom models and such for Klingon missions.

    Aside from that, the fact that we're getting a whole new campaign FOR FREE is pretty awesome to me, even if the realities of game-publishing means that we have to wait a while longer. And hey, maybe when the time comes, I'll even roll up a member of a more interesting race (like an Orion or Gorn), and check it out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    If you want proof of that, just see how many people were max level a week after this game launched. And guess what happens after people burn through that content that took a year to make? They'll want more. So then you either have to ignore your majority to focus on the minority like you had planned to do, or you ignore the minority again and spend another year working on the majority.
    You're making my point for me, though. Let's say Cryptic can write, develop, test, and implement 20 new episodes a year, which is about 1 every 2.5 weeks (and you and I both know they can't do it that quickly). If they give 10 to Klingon and 10 to Federation players neither of us is going to be satisfied. We're both going to end up quitting in frustration. I know I'm not going to stick around if all I have to look forward to is less then 1 new Episode a month.

    What Cryptic needs to do is find a way to keep the majority of players around long enough to gain enough steady money to expand their operation. Without company expansion there's no hope for either side. When you have 60 devs and 10 are working on bugs, 25 are working on phase 1, 15 are working on phase 2, and 10 are working on phase 3 projects you never get ahead by trying to feed two hungry babies. More money means more potential personnel. Less money means the opposite.
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