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Really Real Raids?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I dont feel the STF's really count as a raid for anyone who has played a MMO before. Anyone know if STO will always be made for super casual players and the rest of us who enjoy team work and a challenge should just look some place else?

I enjoy raiding (20+ atlest) for the challenge and team work, I dont raid for LOOT its just a bonues

anyways not a troll just wondering if anyone knows the score?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    All depends
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think you might be looking for Fleet Actions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    I think you might be looking for Fleet Actions.

    fleet actions in STO are a zerg fest.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    20+ isnt really team work its more like /auto-attack /afk but I do agree with you Rumble, 5 mans (though pretty challenging considering) don't really feel Raid-like. I would love if Cryptic would add a 10 man Raid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I can appreciate someone wanting 20+ raids. And maybe STO will have them at some point.

    But.....I hate them. Trying to get 20 people together can take an hour or longer. On top of that once you start, it depends on those 20 people doing their jobs correctly. Which half the time doesnt work out.

    Loot is barely ever divided up correctly. Its a big ol mess usually.

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The STF reminds me of SWG's heroic instances, I'm cool with them being for just 5 people as long as they are fun. I don't want to go through the hassle of trying to get 20 people together. My time is limited as I am sure others is as well, so its better that we don't have to take as long to get a group formed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I can appreciate someone wanting 20+ raids. And maybe STO will have them at some point.

    But.....I hate them. Trying to get 20 people together can take an hour or longer. On top of that once you start, it depends on those 20 people doing their jobs correctly. Which half the time doesnt work out.

    Loot is barely ever divided up correctly. Its a big ol mess usually.


    we had 80 man raids in EQ, everyone did there jobs and we had dif ways of spliting the loot, we had set raid days and people who joined knew what days that was so they showed up, It was a raid guild, you joined if you wanted to raid, Casual people joined Happy Family guilds and did what ever it was they did.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OP do you ever have anything nice to say about STO? If so, please point me in the right direction.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OP do you ever have anything nice to say about STO? If so, please point me in the right direction.

    Yea he used to say LOTS of good things about it. In fact, thats all he talked about. How awesome and good STO was.

    The novelty wore off apparently and he became disenchanted. I cant really blame him.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    OP do you ever have anything nice to say about STO? If so, please point me in the right direction.

    how is this a attack on STO? ohh wait i get it, i said i feel somthing could be added to the game..... so you auto think am attacking star trek, kk i get it
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rumbleskin wrote: »
    we had 80 man raids in EQ, everyone did there jobs and we had dif ways of spliting the loot, we had set raid days and people who joined knew what days that was so they showed up, It was a raid guild, you joined if you wanted to raid, Casual people joined Happy Family guilds and did what ever it was they did.

    Remember when WoW had 40 man raids? You know why they stopped making them?

    They were too stressful on the players. It's difficult getting 40 players willing to sacrifice hours of their day on it. Especially since initially a 40-man raid could take days to accomplish, with players putting forth 12+ hours of playtime for the raid.

    Large raids look cool and all, but they're extremely taxing on players. I suppose yes, if you build a Fleet just for them it works out but then there's a problem. You again divide the hardcore and the casual - those who can invest 12+ hours of a day playing STO will acquire better loot then those who cannot.

    Really I find it wouldn't matter, except for PvP. There would be so much PvP BAW, not to mention PVPers tend to have this "eltist" attitude that if you can't get what they have, you shouldn't be playing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Maybe they could do two variations of the STFs? One for the smaller five man teams and one for a larger team?

    I haven't done the STFs yet myself but from what I've seen on the forums most people seem to enjoy them, so perhaps they should leave them as they are to appease the people that like them, but at larger scale ones in as an alternative for people looking for a more challenging experience.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    paddoxx wrote: »
    Maybe they could do two variations of the STFs? One for the smaller five man teams and one for a larger team?

    I haven't done the STFs yet myself but from what I've seen on the forums most people seem to enjoy them, so perhaps they should leave them as they are to appease the people that like them, but at larger scale ones in as an alternative for people looking for a more challenging experience.

    This is an interesting idea. Are you thinking the same mission just one requires more people to complete or just an independent set of STFs geared towards larger groups?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    krisslanza wrote: »
    Remember when WoW had 40 man raids? You know why they stopped making them?

    They were too stressful on the players. It's difficult getting 40 players willing to sacrifice hours of their day on it. Especially since initially a 40-man raid could take days to accomplish, with players putting forth 12+ hours of playtime for the raid.

    Large raids look cool and all, but they're extremely taxing on players. I suppose yes, if you build a Fleet just for them it works out but then there's a problem. You again divide the hardcore and the casual - those who can invest 12+ hours of a day playing STO will acquire better loot then those who cannot.

    Really I find it wouldn't matter, except for PvP. There would be so much PvP BAW, not to mention PVPers tend to have this "eltist" attitude that if you can't get what they have, you shouldn't be playing.

    mate casuals and hardcores have always been divided. good programming and planning can allow you to make both groups happy,
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rumbleskin wrote: »
    how is this a attack on STO? ohh wait i get it, i said i feel somthing could be added to the game..... so you auto think am attacking star trek, kk i get it

    no its that every time you mention something about star trek you take jabs at it while talking about improving it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rumbleskin wrote: »
    mate casuals and hardcores have always been divided. good programming and planning can allow you to make both groups happy,

    I can't see it happening. The two sides hate each other, and you can't please one side without angering the other.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rumbleskin wrote: »
    we had 80 man raids in EQ, everyone did there jobs and we had dif ways of spliting the loot, we had set raid days and people who joined knew what days that was so they showed up, It was a raid guild, you joined if you wanted to raid, Casual people joined Happy Family guilds and did what ever it was they did.

    EQ is this way

    <

    Have fun!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    no its that every time you mention something about star trek you take jabs at it while talking about improving it.

    sorry no i would defend star trek with my dying breath, So far STO isnt star trek
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Telum wrote: »
    This is an interesting idea. Are you thinking the same mission just one requires more people to complete or just an independent set of STFs geared towards larger groups?

    Use the same mission, just have one require a larger group to complete.

    That way, people looking to do it in a small group can stick to doing it in the group of five people and anyone looking for something a bit more challenging could team up with 10, 20 or more people, depending on how many the mission requires.

    It wouldn't be alienating anyone since its the same mission. So people who don't want to do something in a group that large wouldn't be missing out on a new mission while those looking to group up in larger numbers still get what they want.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    paddoxx wrote: »
    Use the same mission, just have one require a larger group to complete.

    That way, people looking to do it in a small group can stick to doing it in the group of five people and anyone looking for something a bit more challenging could team up with 10, 20 or more people, depending on how many the mission requires.

    It wouldn't be alienating anyone since its the same mission. So people who don't want to do something in a group that large wouldn't be missing out on a new mission while those looking to group up in larger numbers still get what they want.

    I like this idea a lot.

    /endorse
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    paddoxx wrote: »
    Use the same mission, just have one require a larger group to complete.

    That way, people looking to do it in a small group can stick to doing it in the group of five people and anyone looking for something a bit more challenging could team up with 10, 20 or more people, depending on how many the mission requires.

    It wouldn't be alienating anyone since its the same mission. So people who don't want to do something in a group that large wouldn't be missing out on a new mission while those looking to group up in larger numbers still get what they want.

    they could tweak the raid instance of the STF to better make room for 20+ people. Make the last boss harder, good idea i think, atlest a start :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rumbleskin wrote: »
    they could tweak the raid instance of the STF to better make room for 20+ people. Make the last boss harder, good idea i think, atlest a start :)

    Increase the room size, say, double the number of drones and tweak their health and shields. For Infected add an extra shield generator into the room to take down so it needs 4 people or 5.

    Some little tweaks would be needed to the map for a larger group but it would be workable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    paddoxx wrote: »
    Increase the room size, say, double the number of drones and tweak their health and shields. For Infected add an extra shield generator into the room to take down so it needs 4 people or 5.

    Some little tweaks would be needed to the map for a larger group but it would be workable.

    shouldent be to much work to do it, need a form raid option aswell
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Its a good idea, definitely worth a look at. I wouldn't mind doing the STFs if we can do them in a larger group, makes them more interesting.

    Plus, they could do this for a few missions around the map, turn them into large group raids. It would open up some of the content to larger groups and give those at higher levels a little more to do too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rumbleskin wrote: »
    sorry no i would defend star trek with my dying breath, So far STO isnt star trek

    QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I would like to see STFs designed to be played by 5-man teams WITH the 20 BOs that those captains bring with them. Currently all points after RA5 are going to BOs, right? But the missions designed for RAs to play don't allow them to bring their BOs? Does that make sense?

    I would also like to at least be able to attempt to "solo" a 5-man raid with my BOs instead of human players. (Yes, I'm anti-social, no I don't care about the M's in MMO.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    STO is too simple to have "proper" raids like WoW does, it's a dumbed-down arcade style game, if you are playing hoping it's going to turn into something deep and meaningful like raiding Icecrown on WoW then you are going to be sorely disappointed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'd rather not have the big 25 mans to tell you the truth. 10 man maybe but I find that when it gets to 25 either it's far too easy and when you have 25 people you just breeze through it or it's far too hard where if one person in the 25 steps out of line just once at any stage the whole party wipes and you have to start over.

    Not to mention that the guilds I join aren't generally heavy raiding guilds and it would really suck to have to spam the chat for a few hours until we get a tactical captain in a science ship and an engineer in an escort or whatever it would require.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rumbleskin wrote: »
    fleet actions in STO are a zerg fest.

    Which doesn't mean they're not intended to be what you want. I think it's perfectly fine to have end game content that only requires the regular team size. In CoX, the Task Forces, which are very challenging and take planning and preparation, can be done with the basic 8 man team, same as everything else in the game. There are also various raids and giant monsters which require more people, much like the Fleet Actions.

    I think what would really solve this problem is a way to take a chosen team into a Fleet Action. Whether it's enabling Fleet Specific instances or allowing people to create private instances, that would allow a large-team oriented raiding type experience.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    There's nothing hardcore about larger number raids. You look at the box of a room where the tank and spank will happen and the strat is staring you in the face. The only hard part is for the few people who know their class holding the hands of the rest of the idiots and sleepers who are just waiting for a box to open. That's not challenging, it's a waste of time. I've lead large raids and have burned out on them, not for the difficulty, but for baby sitting 20-40 adults.

    I wouldn't mind a raid in sto that requires ten people, that would be fun if it weren't follow the yellow brick road, just have the objectives and leave the design open for multiple styles of progression, having the challenge be in AI reaction, maneuvering, and skill use.
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