I believe that open PvP sections should be implemented. In DAoC it was called RvR or Realm vs. Realm. I saw how three or more factions could work well in this arena. You could have Starbases that could be taken over that would give that faction a bonus in PvE. This would tie the PvEers and PvPers together into a more close-knit community. We always thanked the PvPers for getting the bonuses. The bonuses are just a suggestion, but I do believe that open PvP areas with the introduction of more factions will increase the amount of people that want to PvP and could reinforce the loyalty of present customers.
I would suggest that you take a long look at what has worked and not worked for other MMOs. DAoC had my loyalty for many years, and I can tell you this, if they had not gone to making gear matter over skill, I would have stayed for the PvP and RvR alone. They tied gear to huge raids, and I was never able to enter these raids due to time restrictions. I would say that you have balanced gear and skills sublimely. I enjoy my time in PvP and PvE equally. I rarely ever get bored, because I can switch between the two easily.
I agree though Cryptic wouldnt have to wait for the 3rd race. It should be added ASAP. You are right that was what made DAoC a classic and popular game.It doesnt need to be stunningly beutiful, Just give us a place we can kill the other faction or be killed. Give us star bases and planets to take over both ground based and space based combat. DAoC and SWG both had huge numbers within the same area on dial up, so their has to be a way to implement it.
This is going to be more complicated in the current STO model.
For starters, they'll need a new galactic map -- or at least some new map that represents a very large non-instanced area.
STO is unlike most MMORPGs in that they instance everything. You log into Sol #86, zone out to the #71 instance of the sector map, zone into the #236 instance of Starbase 24, etc.
In this kind of environment, "fighting for control of a base" doesn't work because your team would both own it and not own it depending on which instance it was in.
And then there's team balance to deal with. DAOC had 3 roughly equal teams. As long as no one team outnumbered the combination of the other two teams, you could get an approximation of balance. In STO, Feds must by something like 97% of the population? Granted more players would play Klingon if there was more/better PvP to engage in but I think Feds will more than outnumber Klingons + Romulans.
And also, it seems like Cryptic has engineered their game around handling no more than, what, 40 players or so per instance? So whatever they do for RvR is going to have tight population controls.
Not to say these problems can't be solved with a good PvP design, just that it's not going to be easy or simple. And frankly, I have doubts that Cryptic is able to or interested in rising to this task.
Don't forget that demand for RvR-style confilct is not universal. Given that there are only 2-3 factions to choose from in the entire game (and only one game shard in STO), what happens if I simply don't want to be on your team? RvR is a form of forced grouping, and that can get pretty old pretty fast.
Don't forget that demand for RvR-style confilct is not universal. Given that there are only 2-3 factions to choose from in the entire game (and only one game shard in STO), what happens if I simply don't want to be on your team? RvR is a form of forced grouping, and that can get pretty old pretty fast.
You're already in a forced group: Fed or Klingon!
What you're talking about sounds more like guild based gameplay, which will simply never work within Star Trek. Anything you do in this game is going to put you into some big faction.
I agree with Slamz on this but I want something else added.
Imagine this.....A non instanced map where anyone that entered it no matter what rank had RA5/BG5 weapons etc.....Meaning if you are a LT in a miranda once you enter the map your damage etc...scales up. You don't get the additional BO slots but the equipment auto tiers.
With some sort of system like this we could have some Major TRIBBLE battles with ships of all Types and it would be open to everyone. Wouldn't it be cool to see a squadron of Mirandas supporting a mixed T5 group?
Granted without the BO slots it could be a tad rough but man would it be Star Trek and cool.
What you're talking about sounds more like guild based gameplay, which will simply never work within Star Trek. Anything you do in this game is going to put you into some big faction.
Well, the situation as I see it is:
Currently a player can pick 4 friends and play 5v5 without having to worry about suiciders, afkers, laggers, or morons except to the extent that they choose to group with such players. They control the games they play, the times they play, and the outcomes of their games through how well they play. Everybody's degree of competence or incompetence is his own business.
If RvR becomes the lay of the land, forced teaming takes away their ability to choose their own company. It essentially forces PUGing. Their success becomes directly dependent on people whose competency and motives they have no control over, nor hand in selecting. Furthermore, they lose control of even the TIMES they play - 3am raids and 8-hour back-and-forth zergs aren't everybody's idea of fun. Add on top of that the population imbalance that will either force Feds to queue or Klingons to fight 10v1, and... what's the advantage of this system, again?
Well, the situation as I see it is:
Currently a player can pick 4 friends and play 5v5 without having to worry about suiciders, afkers, laggers, or morons except to the extent that they choose to group with such players. They control the games they play, the times they play, and the outcomes of their games through how well they play. Everybody's degree of competence or incompetence is his own business.
If RvR becomes the lay of the land, forced teaming takes away their ability to choose their own company. It essentially forces PUGing. Their success becomes directly dependent on people whose competency and motives they have no control over, nor hand in selecting. Furthermore, they lose control of even the TIMES they play - 3am raids and 8-hour back-and-forth zergs aren't everybody's idea of fun. Add on top of that the population imbalance that will either force Feds to queue or Klingons to fight 10v1, and... what's the advantage of this system, again?
You wont be forced to group with anyone, you just wont be able to attack the people of the same faction. You can still go into mini's and you wont be forced to go into the RvR if you choose not to.
Well, the situation as I see it is:
Currently a player can pick 4 friends and play 5v5 without having to worry about suiciders, afkers, laggers, or morons except to the extent that they choose to group with such players. They control the games they play, the times they play, and the outcomes of their games through how well they play. Everybody's degree of competence or incompetence is his own business.
If RvR becomes the lay of the land, forced teaming takes away their ability to choose their own company. It essentially forces PUGing. Their success becomes directly dependent on people whose competency and motives they have no control over, nor hand in selecting. Furthermore, they lose control of even the TIMES they play - 3am raids and 8-hour back-and-forth zergs aren't everybody's idea of fun. Add on top of that the population imbalance that will either force Feds to queue or Klingons to fight 10v1, and... what's the advantage of this system, again?
Yes -- it would become a real massively multiplayer game.
What you're talking about is something Cryptic has been doing and I don't think it's doing well for them -- breaking a massively multiplayer game into non-massive portions and expecting people to pay for it as if it was massive.
Currently, there is almost nothing about STO that requires it to be "massive". 5v5? 10v10? 40 people in a zone? You could run this thing on Steam using desktop computers as servers.
If they want to justify their $15/month, they need to deliver a "massive" experience. Hundreds of people in a zone, thousands of people across a wide area. That's what massively multiplayer gaming used to be about.
So the advantage is that STO would finally live up to the "MMORPG" classification. As it stands, it's merely an "ORPG".
So the advantage is that STO would finally live up to the "MMORPG" classification. As it stands, it's merely an "ORPG".
That's it? You'd take on all the disadvantages of a poorly-scaling forced teaming system so you can justify two letters in an arbitrary genre categorization?
Comments
For starters, they'll need a new galactic map -- or at least some new map that represents a very large non-instanced area.
STO is unlike most MMORPGs in that they instance everything. You log into Sol #86, zone out to the #71 instance of the sector map, zone into the #236 instance of Starbase 24, etc.
In this kind of environment, "fighting for control of a base" doesn't work because your team would both own it and not own it depending on which instance it was in.
And then there's team balance to deal with. DAOC had 3 roughly equal teams. As long as no one team outnumbered the combination of the other two teams, you could get an approximation of balance. In STO, Feds must by something like 97% of the population? Granted more players would play Klingon if there was more/better PvP to engage in but I think Feds will more than outnumber Klingons + Romulans.
And also, it seems like Cryptic has engineered their game around handling no more than, what, 40 players or so per instance? So whatever they do for RvR is going to have tight population controls.
Not to say these problems can't be solved with a good PvP design, just that it's not going to be easy or simple. And frankly, I have doubts that Cryptic is able to or interested in rising to this task.
You're already in a forced group: Fed or Klingon!
What you're talking about sounds more like guild based gameplay, which will simply never work within Star Trek. Anything you do in this game is going to put you into some big faction.
Imagine this.....A non instanced map where anyone that entered it no matter what rank had RA5/BG5 weapons etc.....Meaning if you are a LT in a miranda once you enter the map your damage etc...scales up. You don't get the additional BO slots but the equipment auto tiers.
With some sort of system like this we could have some Major TRIBBLE battles with ships of all Types and it would be open to everyone. Wouldn't it be cool to see a squadron of Mirandas supporting a mixed T5 group?
Granted without the BO slots it could be a tad rough but man would it be Star Trek and cool.
Well, the situation as I see it is:
Currently a player can pick 4 friends and play 5v5 without having to worry about suiciders, afkers, laggers, or morons except to the extent that they choose to group with such players. They control the games they play, the times they play, and the outcomes of their games through how well they play. Everybody's degree of competence or incompetence is his own business.
If RvR becomes the lay of the land, forced teaming takes away their ability to choose their own company. It essentially forces PUGing. Their success becomes directly dependent on people whose competency and motives they have no control over, nor hand in selecting. Furthermore, they lose control of even the TIMES they play - 3am raids and 8-hour back-and-forth zergs aren't everybody's idea of fun. Add on top of that the population imbalance that will either force Feds to queue or Klingons to fight 10v1, and... what's the advantage of this system, again?
You wont be forced to group with anyone, you just wont be able to attack the people of the same faction. You can still go into mini's and you wont be forced to go into the RvR if you choose not to.
Yes -- it would become a real massively multiplayer game.
What you're talking about is something Cryptic has been doing and I don't think it's doing well for them -- breaking a massively multiplayer game into non-massive portions and expecting people to pay for it as if it was massive.
Currently, there is almost nothing about STO that requires it to be "massive". 5v5? 10v10? 40 people in a zone? You could run this thing on Steam using desktop computers as servers.
If they want to justify their $15/month, they need to deliver a "massive" experience. Hundreds of people in a zone, thousands of people across a wide area. That's what massively multiplayer gaming used to be about.
So the advantage is that STO would finally live up to the "MMORPG" classification. As it stands, it's merely an "ORPG".
That's it? You'd take on all the disadvantages of a poorly-scaling forced teaming system so you can justify two letters in an arbitrary genre categorization?
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=135434