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The development of ground combat is hindering the development of space combat

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
hey guys,

this is just my opinion, but I believe that space combat in this game, is most of the reason why most of us play. Although the idea of ground combat was good on paper, the game play is lack luster, boring, and mostly not fun at all. In fact, it feels like an alpha version of Tabula Rasa..... Common Ground seems like a decent update, but it focuses on bringing more ground elements to the game than space. Why not focus on improving the pvp system, making more admiral 5 fleet actions, space raids (with lots of people cause this is supposed to be an mmo) and making ships more customizable.

Not to say that I don't care about ground combat... but its almost like cryptic tried to make 2 smaller games and combined them. The result, not enough time to develop either of them.... and both of them being less than what people expected.

So, I mainly want to ask Cryptic to focus on what works in the now..... Space is much more polished than ground in every way. Focus on space for the players, and develop ground in the background. You may have the lifers in the game, but what happens after 2 years of this game (if it manages to make that time). You will still need regular subscribers to fund more development. I myself will always be a monthly subscriber, because I believe in playing games in which the development focuses on improving the game. So if you wanna keep the non lifers.... focus on the part of the game that is fun right now.... and not the part of the game where it isn't. More ground missions are not gonna make it more fun, changing the dynamics and smoothening the gameplay will.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ground combat might be funnier if we had more points to spend in that skill tree
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ground combat is one of the things least liked in the game and space combat is one of the things most liked about the game. It stands to reason they'd put more into developing the least liked part in an attempt to bring it up on par with the space combat. Why mess with something that the majority like the most when you can fix the thing least liked?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Space combat is very good, don't change it.
    The rest of the game is very, VERY lacking, let's work on it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Talaxia wrote:
    Ground combat is one of the things least liked in the game and space combat is one of the things most liked about the game. It stands to reason they'd put more into developing the least liked part in an attempt to bring it up on par with the space combat. Why mess with something that the majority like the most when you can fix the thing least liked?

    space combat needs many improvements as I have stated. But the point is, that the mmo market for a starting game is quite volatile. Within the first couple of months in release, the mass base of players decide whether the game is worth investing in or not. Granted more people do try the game later, but the base populations of any game always forms in the beginning of the game. People are reaching RA5 and realizing that theres nothing to do but daily missions and making more characters. 'Infected' is not even fun after doing it more than twice. If you want to attach people into staying in the game, you gotta improve its best aspect cause thats what keeps players. Asian mmo's make this mistake alot when they localize there games in NA, because asian gamers are willing to wait way longer periods of time for development to move along. NA's are not so patient.... look at how AION is doing atm, pvp was supposed to be endgame, but the devs have taken so long that NA is bleeding accounts daily now. Yet the asian market is sitll booming

    Not the mention, they are not really improving how ground combat works... They are adding more content for a sub par system as is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Talaxia wrote:
    Ground combat is one of the things least liked in the game and space combat is one of the things most liked about the game. It stands to reason they'd put more into developing the least liked part in an attempt to bring it up on par with the space combat. Why mess with something that the majority like the most when you can fix the thing least liked?

    /\ding!

    Besides, I like a lot of the core ideas of ground combat. They just need to change the rythm some (faster using normal attacks, less dominance of expose/exploit would be my suggestion) and work on things like the rifle-butt spam and resulting holds/stuns (and I'm just talking about PvE - it drives me nuts that entering melee range means either me or the enemy will have a few seconds of drunken swaying soon)

    I also like a lot of the core ideas of space combat, but all I think it needs PvE-wise are proper accomodation of the Z-axis (fine, you don't want us pitching full-up - Give Z Thrust!)

    PvP is a never-ending scramble of players toward emergent unbalanced tactics and devs struggling to plug them, and that applies to both space and ground. Though a lot of PvEers complain about this, many situationally OP discoveries brought forth by the competition of PvP are even more excessively brutal against NPCs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    40 000 players answered to Cryptic's survey and said what they want to see added next : I suggest we do what the community wants.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Delazure wrote: »
    40 000 players answered to Cryptic's survey and said what they want to see added next : I suggest we do what the community wants.

    did they post the results of the survey? is there a link?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I would like to see the skill points for both space and ground seprated. That way people wouldn't feel like they need to choose one or the other.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    did they post the results of the survey? is there a link?

    http://www.startrekonline.com/survey_one_results
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Desired Gameplay Features

    18% = Ship Interiors
    17% = Bridge Functionality
    17% = First Contact Missions
    15% = Diplomacy System
    12% = Persistent PvE Zone
    11% = More Dialog Options
    10% = PvP Territory Endgame

    thanks delazure for the link, so what i found most important from the survey, was desired gameplay features. But what I'm seeing here, is that none of these things involve ground combat. The top 3 things people want in the game, is more to do with aesthetics. People might want to explore there own ship, or use the bridge like 'bridge commander' but none of these suggestions say that more ground combat is wanted
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    40K players want these 3 things above all :
    • 18% = Ship Interiors
    • 17% = Bridge Functionality
    • 17% = First Contact Missions

    I just say : let's give them these 3 things before changing something that everyone likes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    hey guys,

    this is just my opinion, but I believe that space combat in this game, is most of the reason why most of us play. Although the idea of ground combat was good on paper, the game play is lack luster, boring, and mostly not fun at all. In fact, it feels like an alpha version of Tabula Rasa..... Common Ground seems like a decent update, but it focuses on bringing more ground elements to the game than space. Why not focus on improving the pvp system, making more admiral 5 fleet actions, space raids (with lots of people cause this is supposed to be an mmo) and making ships more customizable.

    Not to say that I don't care about ground combat... but its almost like cryptic tried to make 2 smaller games and combined them. The result, not enough time to develop either of them.... and both of them being less than what people expected.

    So, I mainly want to ask Cryptic to focus on what works in the now..... Space is much more polished than ground in every way. Focus on space for the players, and develop ground in the background. You may have the lifers in the game, but what happens after 2 years of this game (if it manages to make that time). You will still need regular subscribers to fund more development. I myself will always be a monthly subscriber, because I believe in playing games in which the development focuses on improving the game. So if you wanna keep the non lifers.... focus on the part of the game that is fun right now.... and not the part of the game where it isn't. More ground missions are not gonna make it more fun, changing the dynamics and smoothening the gameplay will.

    I disagree.

    If you had a game that was really fun, let's say Starcraft 2 or something. If your game was just like Starcraft 2 but for every hour of SC2 that you played you had to grind through an hour of poke the bunny well... not so much. First thing, ditch the poke the bunny section or make it fun. I don't think ditching ground combat is an option and I wouldn't want it to be so we need to make it better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Top three least liked things:

    34% = Crafting / Memory Alpha
    20% = Ground Combat
    18% = Something Else

    That says to me that while getting the most desired in is a no brainer, so is shoring up where people find the game lacking. So a better/redone/??? Crafting system and Ground Combat that is more 'fun' should definatly be on the menu. :) Space combat is the top dog on what people love so little to no change is needed there. That;s not to say it can't be improved, just that improving it is going to provide less bang than if ground combat could be made as 'fun'.

    And by pie, I can't wait for First Contact missions. ^^. Especially if they involve pre-warp societies. =^_^= And being able to do stuff from meh bridge ala Bridge Commander would be dope. Exploring my ship is more 'meh' in my eyes. <.< ... >.>
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Delazure wrote: »
    40K players want these 3 things above all :
    • 18% = Ship Interiors
    • 17% = Bridge Functionality
    • 17% = First Contact Missions

    I just say : let's give them these 3 things before changing something that everyone likes.

    Where did I say in my post that we should change something that everyone like? All my suggestions were for making space combat more fun. And my post simply is about combat ie fighting. The three things u quoted have nothing to do with combat
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tundara wrote: »
    Top three least liked things:

    34% = Crafting / Memory Alpha
    20% = Ground Combat
    18% = Something Else

    That says to me that while getting the most desired in is a no brainer, so is shoring up where people find the game lacking. So a better/redone/??? Crafting system and Ground Combat that is more 'fun' should definatly be on the menu. :) Space combat is the top dog on what people love so little to no change is needed there. That;s not to say it can't be improved, just that improving it is going to provide less bang than if ground combat could be made as 'fun'.

    And by pie, I can't wait for First Contact missions. ^^. Especially if they involve pre-warp societies. =^_^= And being able to do stuff from meh bridge ala Bridge Commander would be dope. Exploring my ship is more 'meh' in my eyes. <.< ... >.>

    Adding more of the same combat doesn't make something more fun. The largest update in comon ground is another ground based STF
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I disagree.

    If you had a game that was really fun, let's say Starcraft 2 or something. If your game was just like Starcraft 2 but for every hour of SC2 that you played you had to grind through an hour of poke the bunny well... not so much. First thing, ditch the poke the bunny section or make it fun. I don't think ditching ground combat is an option and I wouldn't want it to be so we need to make it better.

    I never said to ditch it. In fact I rcommend they develop it in the background. The space content may seem vast if u are not RA5 but once u spend a week there, u get a sense that space endgame needs dev time. On a positive note I hope fvf pvp lessens queu time for player but I hope t doesn't kill fvk pvp cause I love it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Adding more of the same combat doesn't make something more fun. The largest update in comon ground is another ground based STF

    It may be true that in the upcoming update that ground changes may be limited to the addition of a few maps or missions. But the next MAY have a much larger change. What I am getting at is that it is better to get Ground in line with Space in terms of 'fun' before working on space. Though that doesn't mean space needs to be ignored either.

    =. .=
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I never said to ditch it. In fact I rcommend they develop it in the background. The space content may seem vast if u are not RA5 but once u spend a week there, u get a sense that space endgame needs dev time. On a positive note I hope fvf pvp lessens queu time for player but I hope t doesn't kill fvk pvp cause I love it.

    Oh I see, you were saying to stop developing ground content but keep developing the system. I'd go for that yeah. Just as long as they didn't cut ground combat from special task forces because those would feel really empty and, forgive the pun, ungrounded without ground combat. Somehow fighting the Borg queen in space only wouldn't feel right to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rumbleskin wrote: »
    ground combat might be funnier if we had more points to spend in that skill tree

    Enough said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Oh I see, you were saying to stop developing ground content but keep developing the system. I'd go for that yeah. Just as long as they didn't cut ground combat from special task forces because those would feel really empty and, forgive the pun, ungrounded without ground combat. Somehow fighting the Borg queen in space only wouldn't feel right to me.

    Does five people killing Rebecca simmons feel right to you?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The more days go on, the more someone thinks they know how Cryptic runs their development teams.

    And they're just like Soong.. often wrong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Shayde wrote: »
    The more days go on, the more someone thinks they know how Cryptic runs their development teams.

    And they're just like Soong.. often wrong.

    Sigh, I never said I understood how cryptic works, this:D is just from my observation of patches. You know what I,d like to see, the federation carrier at omega group being usable. I think we all want that
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Does five people killing Rebecca simmons feel right to you?

    I havn't done infected yet but yeah it probably would. Voyager had the most confrontations with the borg and whenever they beamed aboard a cube or a sphere to do something they didn't give every able bodied crewman a phaser rifle and storm the place, it was always a little strike team. Not to mention that the only times she was killed in the show it was by just one or two people.

    Plus the only other option would be to make her a fleet action which doesn't feel right to me since a fleet action couldn't have a long dungeon beforehand. Being a part of 40 people taking down the borg queen would also make me feel like of useless, because I know 39 people could do it just fine I'm just one more gun, a non fleet action I feel important.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Where did I say in my post that we should change something that everyone like? All my suggestions were for making space combat more fun. And my post simply is about combat ie fighting. The three things u quoted have nothing to do with combat

    i believe the point was that 59% (by far the most) indicated they LIKED space combat. so changing space combat would not be on a hitlist where 0% people liked crafting, only 2% liked pvp and 20% actively disliked ground combat? those 3 items are fairly integral to MMO's. especially this one (crafting less so i suppose)

    never mind the 3 items that folks actually indicated 'they wanted next'.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I havn't done infected yet but yeah it probably would. Voyager had the most confrontations with the borg and whenever they beamed aboard a cube or a sphere to do something they didn't give every able bodied crewman a phaser rifle and storm the place, it was always a little strike team. Not to mention that the only times she was killed in the show it was by just one or two people.

    Plus the only other option would be to make her a fleet action which doesn't feel right to me since a fleet action couldn't have a long dungeon beforehand. Being a part of 40 people taking down the borg queen would also make me feel like of useless, because I know 39 people could do it just fine I'm just one more gun, a non fleet action I feel important.

    There were only 2 ocassionS I which a queen was killed. One on the enterprise my warp plasma and the se ond in voyager with a super virus. And phasers in the show have the ability to vaporize in a single shot, not to mention stun
    and ko someone for a long period of time. The Borg are a super threat and r u suppose to be the ultimate enemy, killing a queen by focusing rifles doesn't seem logical , not to mention that never happens in the show and real Borg adapt after 2 shots
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    lordbeany wrote: »
    i believe the point was that 59% (by far the most) indicated they LIKED space combat. so changing space combat would not be on a hitlist where 0% people liked crafting, only 2% liked pvp and 20% actively disliked ground combat? those 3 items are fairly integral to MMO's. especially this one (crafting less so i suppose)

    never mind the 3 items that folks actually indicated 'they wanted next'.

    59 percent is success to us a C - not to me it isn't and I'm only saying this cause u guys love ur numbers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    There were only 2 ocassionS I which a queen was killed. One on the enterprise my warp plasma and the se ond in voyager with a super virus. And phasers in the show have the ability to vaporize in a single shot, not to mention stun
    and ko someone for a long period of time. The Borg are a super threat and r u suppose to be the ultimate enemy, killing a queen by focusing rifles doesn't seem logical , not to mention that never happens in the show and real Borg adapt after 2 shots

    Oh you mean defeat her in space as opposed to ground? Maybe...but it would lost a lot of the impact for me to just see her cube explode and go "well she's probably dead". It would be much better I think to beam aboard, fight borg on your way to the queen, set off some kind of special EM bomb that prevented shield adaptations and then fight her face to face somehow. It doesn't have to be a straight fight, and in fact shouldn't be. It shoudl be something like fight her until her shields go down and then when she moves into an alcove to recharge go and overload the power cables leading to that alcove so that her body gets supercharged and explodes or something.

    Of course the space battle to get to her should be epic too, fighting off borg ships to get to her little diamond thing, disableing it's shields, beaming aboard to kill her, and then a big escape fight at the end where you have to fight through disorganized but deadly borg as you get away.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    59 percent is success to us a C - not to me it isn't and I'm only saying this cause u guys love ur numbers

    59 here isn't a grade for how good space combat is, it's a grade for how many people like it the best. Getting space combat so that it's everyone's favorite thing isn't the best goal I don't think. Not to mention that space combat is really good as is and I can't think of any improvements off hand apart from making it fully 3-d or something else that would make a lot of people angry.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Talaxia wrote:
    Ground combat is one of the things least liked in the game and space combat is one of the things most liked about the game. It stands to reason they'd put more into developing the least liked part in an attempt to bring it up on par with the space combat. Why mess with something that the majority like the most when you can fix the thing least liked?

    this makes way more sense, ground combat is lacking I don't know what it is exactly but something dose need to change...so it stands to reason that thats where majority of the Dev's time should be spent?
    make ground combat as fun as space and the whole game rises to greatness!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Delazure wrote: »
    Space combat is very good, don't change it.
    The rest of the game is very, VERY lacking, let's work on it.

    YES THISSssss
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