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Indefinite Cloak As A Strategy?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
I know some people are unhappy about Cloak and unfair advantages and whatnot. As someone who is consistently ground into paste by only a couple of well organized Klingons I can honestly say that I'm not one of them. I love the strategy of it and the feel of searching them out. One day I swear I'll get lucky and Vent Warp Plasma + Evasive Maneuvers will net one for me! That being said, there comes a point where indefinite cloaking needs to be addressed.

I guess what I'm wondering is, do we have any options that could be implemented to get things moving along in under 45 minutes? I don't want a time limit to matches because then what, we just run around in circles until it expires? The maps are too massive for the cloak detection abilities that we have at our disposal. All these guys have to do is run to a corner, sit, and watch. Who could blame them? Shouldn't the game be forcing them to do something more?

Case in point: Solar Wind. Klingons are interfering with evacuation and what not. Well, if they are sitting cloaked out of range for 45 minutes then just how much interference did the Klingons run? Maybe give Feds a goal to eliminate the threat OR transport civilians/supplies/whatever to a safer spot? I don't know. I'm sure there are loads of people here with better more balanced ideas.

I don't want a free win and I certainly don't want to see cloaking devices gimped. If/when you get the drop on me I'll take my lumps. I just don't want to join PvP that allows people to waste everyone's time like this.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    There shouldn't be any FvK space deathmatches. That's the real solution.

    FvK in space should always be objective based, so that there is good reason to not waste too much time in cloak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Or just add a timer. And have the Feds win ties.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I have to admit that even as a mainly Klingon player I liked the bug where cloaked ships showed up on the minimap. This way at least the afk-Klingons could be killed, any aware Klingon was able to evade an incoming science/other ship with charged particle burst anyway.

    But this was and is no solution, the same with limited cloaks. Why? Because for minimap icons simply switch on full impulse, head a direction and go afk again. Or simply sit still 15-30k above/below the main horizontal axis.
    With limited cloak sit on the edge of the screen (go there with cloak on). Anything above 30k distance can't be spotted and the maps are vast (they expand greatly around the modelled part of the map).


    I understand the annoyance when the enemy simply doesn't show up. But I don't think there is a real workaround in changing cloaking, you have to change the PvP to be objective based like Slamz said. Enemy Mine is a good example, you can finish it with beaming down assault teams, or by destroying enemies, or both. It also gives players the opportunity to attack even outnumbered because the enemy maybe doesn't recognizes it right away or is vulnerable (dropped shields because he beams down an assault team, busy with NPCs).
    I would wish more of this maps, just with proper NPCs (not lvl1) and not bugged (losing team doesn't receive rewards)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Naevius wrote:
    Or just add a timer. And have the Feds win ties.
    Klingons get ahead by 1 and cloak the remainder of the match.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I personally am not a big fan of implementing time limits in matches. Imagine working your opponents down and then swooping in for the kill only to be robbed of a hard fought victory by the buzzer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    They just need to do two things:

    1. Make the sensor scan function that points to the nearest scannable object also point to the nearest enemy, cloaked or not.
    2. Disable full impulse while cloaked.

    Then it would acctually be possible to hunt for cloaked ships, or avoid cloaked ships. Cloaking would still have plenty of advantages, because you could only spot one ship at a time, so a good team can use that to confuse opponents, but it wouldn't be this idiotic current situation where federation just gets to sit around waiting to be attacked without being able to do anything useful.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I believe this to be a bug, but last night in PvP, Cracked Planetiod, I was circling around the respawn point. No one was around (visible) and i started taking cannon fire. Looking around trying to get a target lock, I say the point of where the fire was commming from. NO VISIBLE SHIP.

    "A Burd-a-prey canna fire while shez cloaked" - Scotty, Star Trek VI: The undiscovered Country

    Evasive manuvers and Emergency power to sheilds got me out of danger, but never did see the ship, and no one else on the Fed side saw it either.



    If this is a new Klingon Tech, please let us know.

    If it is a Bug, Cryptic, please fix it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Slamz wrote:
    There shouldn't be any FvK space deathmatches. That's the real solution.

    FvK in space should always be objective based, so that there is good reason to not waste too much time in cloak.

    Bingo...its not the cloak...its the poor PvP that failed to recognize the importance of objectives to draw us out. We cant achieve an objective while cloaked. the more you have, the less time we spend cloak.

    Unfortunalty, too many people totally miss how farremoved war and its tactics are from a teamdeath match. The only thing they have in common is that someone is defeated.

    FvK Teamdeath match is only good for consentual Duels/Fleet Duels...not war. Klingon vessels, especially because of the cloak, are war machines...not dueling machines.

    The Cloak, and thus the Klingon and Romulan factions, are only viable in an actual objective based, open and dynamic war environment without queues. You get a horribly incompatiable experience if you put us into any other cross-faction PvP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DES_SNIPER wrote: »
    I believe this to be a bug, but last night in PvP, Cracked Planetiod, I was circling around the respawn point. No one was around (visible) and i started taking cannon fire. Looking around trying to get a target lock, I say the point of where the fire was commming from. NO VISIBLE SHIP.

    [...]

    If this is a new Klingon Tech, please let us know.

    If it is a Bug, Cryptic, please fix it.

    bug. there's no klingon ability that I know of that allows you to do anything like that except Jam Sensors, but Jam Sensors only makes you invisible to one person, not the whole enemy team.

    i've never seen this kind of thing happen in a space map myself, but invisible players do appear (erm, or should I say they "fail to appear") from time to time on ground maps. but in that case you can still tab-target them.

    -ken
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    make all maps have reinforcement points, and 1 or 2 points as areas to hold slow down the reinforcement from dropping.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Slamz wrote:
    There shouldn't be any FvK space deathmatches. That's the real solution.

    FvK in space should always be objective based, so that there is good reason to not waste too much time in cloak.

    This is a wonderful idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    One of the major issues with the pvp maps is you don't know for certain who is and who is not in the match anymore. The report show all people that showed up but not who is still in.

    Dev's spent a great deal with queues and issues in the Tribble section so maybe we will see improvements soon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Slamz wrote:
    There shouldn't be any FvK space deathmatches. That's the real solution.

    FvK in space should always be objective based, so that there is good reason to not waste too much time in cloak.

    I completely agree. Changing the game mechanics to fix the cloaking problem just causes players to whine, what should happen is that in PvP Klingons need some kind of imperative to be aggressive. Just a little tweak like that should be enough to change the dynamics, just look t the capture and hold maps.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Snowreap wrote:
    bug. there's no klingon ability that I know of that allows you to do anything like that except Jam Sensors, but Jam Sensors only makes you invisible to one person, not the whole enemy team.

    i've never seen this kind of thing happen in a space map myself, but invisible players do appear (erm, or should I say they "fail to appear") from time to time on ground maps. but in that case you can still tab-target them.

    -ken

    High-AUX/JAM Sensors/MASK Energy Signature - Very easy to do with synergy skill sets to a tight formation. Most folks go for scramble so opponents shoot each other however.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    1 skill: sensor jamming... but only 1 target and not a team. i think it was a bug.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mask energy signature is a joke.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Speaking as someone with a fair amount of pvp experience, most Klingons don't stay cloaked just to **** you off. If you can't find us and we're not attacking, chances are good that there's only a couple of us, and suiciding into a 5ship fedball with two BoPs is generally a bad idea.

    We want to pvp, too - but the queue system is causing the problems, not cloak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Actually, I didn't realize that the Report option wasn't updated to reflect if someone was still in the zone or not. I suppose it's entirely likely that the Klingons really did just leave the battle all together. Obviously its not their fault that the system is screwed up, but it's not fair to fellow players that they just disappear either.

    I've had to be the one to suicide on several occasions (I tried of course, but there is only so much one ship can do against 4+). Short of being obnoxious and Full Impulsing to the outskirts of the map I don't have the option (as a Fed anyway) to hide and wait for reinforcements. I'm just saying, if the que is TRIBBLE us for an extended period of time it's not going to kill you, so to speak, to take a few lumps. It beats wasting everyone's time.
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