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What's stopping Federation from developing Cloak?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Weren't the khitomer accords the reason the Feds didn't have cloak? Curious, I won't even remotely claim to know the full details... but with no more accords, why the limitation?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Klingon players will whine that it takes their advantage and thus no cloak for the Federation.

    That simple really.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The treathy forbidding the Federation to research or own a cloaking device had nothing to do with Klingons. Its an agreement with the Romulans.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The Treaty of Algeron
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Though in theory Klingons, and Romulans if they become playable, should be able to have some chance to uncover a fed cloaked vessel, as they've had lots of experience with such vessels for a long time.

    Just an idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think it will be fun to see what happens when Romulans can be played in PvP...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    They have developed cloaks........the Tactical class uses a personal version......but for some reason it's very faulty and is slowly becoming less effective. Interesting I thought tech should progress.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Edge wrote:
    Weren't the khitomer accords the reason the Feds didn't have cloak? Curious, I won't even remotely claim to know the full details... but with no more accords, why the limitation?

    Stuff cannon. Its tor gameplay reasons... ie. to maintain some kind of "uniqueness" with the Klingon faction.

    And I for one welcome our new Cloaking Overlords.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tannagra wrote: »
    Though in theory Klingons, and Romulans if they become playable, should be able to have some chance to uncover a fed cloaked vessel, as they've had lots of experience with such vessels for a long time.

    Just an idea.

    Klingons got their cloaking technology from the Romulans. The Romulans designed it in such a way that they could always detect a cloaked Klingon ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Since we're now in opwn war with the Klingons, and damn near on the brink with the Romulans, I don't see why Starfleet has to stick with the Algeron treaty.

    Although it would potentially cause massive backlash with CBS and Paramount.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    nixboox wrote: »
    Klingons got their cloaking technology from the Romulans. The Romulans designed it in such a way that they could always detect a cloaked Klingon ship.

    Feds are still new at cloaking tech though, Klingons and Romulans use it everyday, see its eccentricities etc. and know what to look for when checking for a cloaked vessel.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tannagra wrote: »
    Feds are still new at cloaking tech though, Klingons and Romulans use it everyday, see its eccentricities etc. and know what to look for when checking for a cloaked vessel.

    Actually, they had been developing it in secret for decades...and, naturally, theirs was WAY better (Phasecloak: TNG)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    nixboox wrote: »
    Actually, they had been developing it in secret for decades...and, naturally, theirs was WAY better (Phasecloak: TNG)

    I'm aware of the Pegasus, though as I remember it didn't end too good the first time around.

    Using it in secret and actuallly using it operationally are two completely different things, abit like theory and practice.

    Abit like designing an MMO, and then actually running it with 1000's of wailing players.

    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Serondar wrote:
    The Treaty of Algeron

    I don't think that what exists as "The Romulan Empire" in the time period of the game has anything in common with the Romulan Empire that signed those treaties. So no real political reason left for the federation not to use cloak. On the technical side, federation cloaking prototypes shown in TNG were far more advanced that the competition even if they weren't very reliable. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tannagra wrote: »
    I'm aware of the Pegasus, though as I remember it didn't end too good the first time around.

    Using it in secret and actuallly using it operationally are two completely different things, abit like theory and practice.

    Abit like designing an MMO, and then actually running it with 1000's of wailing players.

    :)

    Well spotted. But when the Enterprise D found the phasecloak device and installed it they were able to make it work perfectly - I think 10 years had passed in the interim between when it was lost inside the asteroid. However, it was still a better design...though they struggled for centuries trying to get transwarp to work, so clearly the Federation is hit and miss when it comes to their collective science intelligence.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    although it is logical that the federation should have cloaking devices by now, I think it just feels better that they don't. make up some kind of reason for it in the story, I don't care, I just don't want feds to get cloaking! give them other things that separates them from the others. like for example fed escorts should get multi-vector assault mode, improve science ships subsystem targeting etc. dunno what cruisers could get.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    nixboox wrote: »
    Well spotted. But when the Enterprise D found the phasecloak device and installed it they were able to make it work perfectly - I think 10 years had passed in the interim between when it was lost inside the asteroid. However, it was still a better design...though they struggled for centuries trying to get transwarp to work, so clearly the Federation is hit and miss when it comes to their collective science intelligence.

    The Enterprise-D was lucky, anyway they had to survive to next week..

    Seriously though, they didn't have a choice, stay marooned in that asteroid or risk being phased out of normal existence?? not really a choice there.

    Maybe the feds can get working, operationally speaking, cloaking tech, but once the genie is out of the bottle putting it back may be very hard.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    J-Sheridan wrote:
    Klingon players will whine that it takes their advantage and thus no cloak for the Federation.

    That simple really.
    Stuff cannon. Its tor gameplay reasons... ie. to maintain some kind of "uniqueness" with the Klingon faction.

    And I for one welcome our new Cloaking Overlords.

    Have MMOs dropped the RPG part so far away that so many are no longer capable of identifying and, at least, respecting a role playing event? :rolleyes:

    *************************************************
    Is it a man? Is it a plane? NO! It's the O'RLY bird!

    Watch it fly away! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tannagra wrote: »
    The Enterprise-D was lucky, anyway they had to survive to next week..

    Seriously though, they didn't have a choice, stay marooned in that asteroid or risk being phased out of normal existence?? not really a choice there.

    Maybe the feds can get working, operationally speaking, cloaking tech, but once the genie is out of the bottle putting it back may be very hard.

    Honestly, I don't care one way or another if everyone has cloak, I just want Cryptic to give me back the ability to warp away or full-impulse out of battle when the need arises. That's the most ridiculous and arbitrary thing ever to take away my ability NOT to fight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Doctorfun wrote: »




    Have MMOs dropped the RPG part so far away that so many are no longer capable of identifying and, at least, respecting a role playing event? :rolleyes:

    Casual gamers "don't"...R-P-G... They never have and never will.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    nixboox wrote: »
    Honestly, I don't care one way or another if everyone has cloak, I just want Cryptic to give me back the ability to warp away or full-impulse out of battle when the need arises. That's the most ridiculous and arbitrary thing ever to take away my ability NOT to fight.

    I agree with you, personally I couldn't reallly care who has cloaking tech in this game as long as we keep getting content and improvements.

    I'm actually starting to warm to this game now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    nixboox wrote: »
    Casual gamers "don't"...R-P-G... They never have and never will.

    Although I strongly disagree with the above statement, since it goes against my own experience, I will not discuss it.
    Casual players may or may not RP, RP has always been a consensual activity. But they should respect it. Unfortunately, STO doesn't provide us with a RP server so one more reason for the idea of respecting RP and RPers to be spread. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    nixboox wrote: »
    I think it will be fun to see what happens when Romulans can be played in PvP...
    It will be like everyone being a pitch black room. All you have is a flashlight and handgun. Your safe as long as you dont turn on that flashlight, but as soon as you do the bullets fly and its mass hysteria till the light goes out. Then its back to that start.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Same reason klingons dont have science ships. This game is based of star trek the series/movies maybe you've heared of them.

    Also giving feds cloak would mean giving klingons science ships and carriers to feds (which is gonna happen sooner or later) Federation has a massive secret weapon that would even get borg nerfed. Emergency power to whine at full power will own this game and burn it to the ground. In a year we'll have 2 identical sides with nothing but cosmetic differences.

    Feds will still get owned in pvp simply because they will still concentrate on pve. Then the emergency power to whine will strike again and cryptic will make pve weapons more powerfull than anything you can get in pvp. Klingon faction will shrink even more. Starcraft 2 gets released by then so it's not all that bad.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    icedeamon wrote:
    Same reason klingons dont have science ships. This game is based of star trek the series/movies maybe you've heared of them...

    Considering the OP tried to open a coherent IC debate on the cloaking issue, which took into account not only the existing lore but also the game's time specificity, I would easily bet on him/her having a far deeper knowledge of the ST universe than you, who might barely have heared of it :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Simplest solution is to make a Mask Energy Signature alternative an innate skill learned by Federation officers when they reach the appropriate rank.

    The Treaty prevents the Federation developing cloaking devices, not developing other forms of stealth technology A.K.A Harder to detect emissions, ECM, Decoys and stealth ships.

    Personnally, I would take all of these over a stealth system that drops my shields and leaves me completely shafted if I get seen however I dont PVP nor will I so oh well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    QUOTE=gx4th;2372525]Since we're now in opwn war with the Klingons, and damn near on the brink with the Romulans, I don't see why Starfleet has to stick with the Algeron treaty.

    Although it would potentially cause massive backlash with CBS and Paramount.[/QUOTE]

    This is actually a valid point.

    Did the Federation continue to recognize the Khitomer accords after the attack by the Klingons? I doubt it.

    The Treaty of Algeron was in place as a threat of war against the Federation should the cloaking technology active in the Defiant was manufactured into other Starfleet ships. Seeing as we are at the brink of war (to the point we send a secret mission to the new Romulan capitol) I saw damn the treaty and equip our tactical ships with a cloaking ability!

    And antiproton cannons. We’ve defeated TWO Doomsday devices.. surely we’ve managed to salvage something.

    [
    Doctorfun wrote: »


    Although I strongly disagree with the above statement, since it goes against my own experience, I will not discuss it.
    Casual players may or may not RP, RP has always been a consensual activity. But they should respect it. Unfortunately, STO doesn't provide us with a RP server so one more reason for the idea of respecting RP and RPers to be spread. :D

    Not to mention, if one is not on a strict RP only server and has no control over the interactions of the ‘casual gamers’, RPing is simply not sustainable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    J-Sheridan wrote:
    Simplest solution is to make a Mask Energy Signature alternative an innate skill learned by Federation officers when they reach the appropriate rank.

    The Treaty prevents the Federation developing cloaking devices, not developing other forms of stealth technology A.K.A Harder to detect emissions, ECM, Decoys and stealth ships.

    Personnally, I would take all of these over a stealth system that drops my shields and leaves me completely shafted if I get seen however I dont PVP nor will I so oh well.

    All the Fed skills in this vein are really awful. Mask Energy Signature doesn't even work against NPCs and certainly not against players. It should reduce the distance weapons can target the ship to about 25%... Also, the Photonic fleet skill is just SO underpowered given its 15min cool down. At the very least, a PDL would be nice for dealing with incoming ordinance automatically instead of having to target it manually, fire, then target something else. And all the temporal mechanics of this game are ridiculous...its online, you can't create a weapon that can anticipate lag. If I see the little purple blob of Viral Matrix racing toward me my ship shouldn't already be suffering FROM it...ridiculous nonsense.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    For one thing, MES actually does work... to an extent.

    It's effective to about 5km. So you can get 5-6km from people before they notice you.

    However, it does the same as Cloaking, in that it lowers your shields while active.


    I had the same thought about the Treaty. It prohibits developing "Cloaks", but it says nothing about Stealth technology.

    That's apparently why we can have MES, which does -almost- the same thing.

    And that's why in 2404 (when we're playing in 2409), Admiral Janeway's shuttle was equipped with a "Stealth Generator" which for all intents and purposes cloaked the ship. Now given how close she was parked to the Borg complex, I'd say this 5km limit on MES is either uncalled for, or she was using something better.

    I'd heard during Beta, that MES basically was a Fed Cloak. But KDF cried big fat pink pepto bismol tears until Cryptic nerfed it.

    +1 Vote for Fed Cloaks
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Doctorfun wrote: »


    Considering the OP tried to open a coherent IC debate on the cloaking issue, which took into account not only the existing lore but also the game's time specificity, I would easily bet on him/her having a far deeper knowledge of the ST universe than you, who might barely have heared of it :)

    I'm sorry...I'm a bit confused here. What does RolePlaying have to do with a thread about the Federation and cloaking? I don't think the OP was roleplaying in their post and if they were, the general discussion forum really isn't the place for that, so calling out people for not responding 'IC' when the majority of us don't even have an 'in character' to begin with could be considered rude.

    However, in the end it's a debate on whether Cryptic/CBS/Paramount would allow canon to be altered for the game given the current situations in the game's version of the Star Trek universe. I don't think they would.

    I don't think the feds need it anyway. Sure it would be neat I guess, but I love mask energy signature and I'm happy with it for now. It's canon and serves the same purpose...plus I like the way most any of my ships look when I use it :)
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