I play a klink, and if you are frustrated with suicide newbs ruining your fun just to end a round, please read on. Also, if you are from cryptic I plead with you to invoke something to get rid of these suicide newbs that do this just to end a round ruining it for the rest trying to win, or at least fight well.
Has anyone (especially klingon side) been in a PvP match where it was just two or three of you against a whole roster of feds, be it space or ground? Seems since I hit T5 ten days after the headstart I have been running into alot of this and I am wondering if it has any hope of changing. It would not be so bad if the feds would realize this and not sit in one big ball waiting for us klinks that are outnumbered by a large amount to attack. I just got out of a 15v4 match that started as a 15v1 match for a daily of mine. I managed to kill 6 and die only twice before more showed up to help me, but the end score was 15 kills for feds and 9 kills for us klinks.
The persons name in question is Zena, and they were letting themself get farmed, and they died nearly all 15 times just to end the map. This behavior has to stop, and hopefully crytic sees this as a problem and does something worthwhile to change this. I love PvP as a klink, but I hate it when a fedbear rolls klink just to TRIBBLE with our dailies. This person was not fighting, and when I said to them to wait for backup and attack as a group they got hostile on me and put me on ignore. Please cryptic, give people that do this a death penalty of longer respawns at the very least, and make them carry over from round to round to help delay their ignorance and give us trying more time to attempt to at least try and win.
There is nothing to do for us at T5, I played on every map 100s of times to get to BG so what is the point of doing it again ? We get no substantial rewards for doing it, aside from the daily mission. And que numbers tell me I am not the only person who thinks this way.
I don't get any prizes for winning a round of Team Fortress 2.
I don't get purple loot for winning a match of Starcraft.
If it's fun, you'll play it regardless of rewards.
If it not fun, you shouldn't play it just because you get some purple piece of loot.
Rewards can be nice and they do help provide a sense of investment but if that's the main reason you play these games then I think you need to step back and re-examine your entertainment options.
Maybe this is where the MMORPG industry is failing. They need to understand that the purpose of rewards is to provide a sense of investment to people who are already enjoying the game. If loot is being used as a substitute for good gameplay, then the game is only going to last as long as the loot keeps coming.
Personally I have thousands of T5 PvP medals. I have no use for them. I never cared about the daily rewards (my skill points are all in Disruptors, so the purple loots don't do much for me). I still played tons of matches just because it was fun. Apparently I am one of the few people who actually enjoys STO gameplay because I don't care about the loot and I play anyway.
So the real question is not, "where are the rewards".
The real question is, "why isn't the gameplay good enough that people will just play for fun?" What makes gameplay so dull that people are only playing it for the purple loots?
So the real question is not, "where are the rewards".
The real question is, "why isn't the gameplay good enough that people will just play for fun?" What makes gameplay so dull that people are only playing it for the purple loots?
I agree with you 125%. Somewhere along the line, people started confusing the dessert with the main course.
We do get rewards, but the thing is that the loser gets the consolation prize as well. But the thing is, losing is still losing.
1) The Queue is baddly broken.
2) Klingon ships are indeed superior to that of Federation ships. (I play both and I can safely say this).
3) Due to the STO's mechanics, Federation players don't know about Teamwork and easily get trumped by Klingon players all the time. With their only saving grace is Fed Balls (space) or Hedgehogging (ground PvP in hiding behind layers of Fabrications).
4) Drastic imbalance of BO skills.
And on top of it, the new Crit system they are testing on Tribble thats drastically overpowered and will make Escorts the "Now" ship, making Cruisers sitting ducks.
Honestly, I'm convinced that Cryptic has absolutely 0 ideas about PvP mechanics.
Yes, there are two big problems with Cryptic's PvP design:
1) Broken queues that result in 5v1 or worse, quite frequently
2) Broken reward systems that result in suiciders
The first just really annoys me, I have been getting a lot of 5vs1 fights (on both sides) and yes sometimes I ill just suicide myself in to one of them just to see how long I last though I never stay to the end and just warp out after (eg no reward).
imho the problem with queues is two fold.
- First of all I am sure a lot of people are like me and queue up for 3 zones, and then we are in one and we forget about the others but the game thinks we are still wanting to get into them. So I think that once we enter a pvp area they should remove us from all other queues and make it impossible to join one untill we are back in 'normal space'
- Second I think we get to much time to join, bring the countdown for joining down to 10-15 seconds, with the snooze option not to reserve a place in the current map, but to keep you on top of the pile for the next batch of invites.
Also it might be good to add a 'this instance is unbalanced' feature that will freeze us at the beginning and forces us to wait a maximum of 2 minutes to let the instance even out, if it is not even after that it should just terminate the instance.
Personally I have thousands of T5 PvP medals. I have no use for them. I never cared about the daily rewards (my skill points are all in Disruptors, so the purple loots don't do much for me). I still played tons of matches just because it was fun. Apparently I am one of the few people who actually enjoys STO gameplay because I don't care about the loot and I play anyway.
I'm with you on this 100%. I PvP because it is fun. This is the same reason I played Quake, Quakeworld, HL, all thier mods, etc. before MMOS. Fun.
Sadly MMOs attract too many Achievers who do not care about playing for the fun of it.
rofl, thats awesome, you can ignore a player in game, and it completely ignores them on these forums...SO SWEEET. I only say this because a poster on this thread is on my TRIBBLE list for 1 reason or another.
I don't get any prizes for winning a round of Team Fortress 2.
I don't get purple loot for winning a match of Starcraft.
If it's fun, you'll play it regardless of rewards.
If it not fun, you shouldn't play it just because you get some purple piece of loot.
Rewards can be nice and they do help provide a sense of investment but if that's the main reason you play these games then I think you need to step back and re-examine your entertainment options.
Maybe this is where the MMORPG industry is failing. They need to understand that the purpose of rewards is to provide a sense of investment to people who are already enjoying the game. If loot is being used as a substitute for good gameplay, then the game is only going to last as long as the loot keeps coming.
Personally I have thousands of T5 PvP medals. I have no use for them. I never cared about the daily rewards (my skill points are all in Disruptors, so the purple loots don't do much for me). I still played tons of matches just because it was fun. Apparently I am one of the few people who actually enjoys STO gameplay because I don't care about the loot and I play anyway.
So the real question is not, "where are the rewards".
The real question is, "why isn't the gameplay good enough that people will just play for fun?" What makes gameplay so dull that people are only playing it for the purple loots?
Ask Blizzard :P
That being said, I agree wit you completelly, but I am afraid we maybe in a minority here. Most people are simply Reward Driven, and many more have been made in to being that way with "habits" instilled to them by that "other" game, or simply by society itself "What is in it for me?" is a question almost everyone asks in everything they do in life, the problem is that in this case the answer should be "fun", and that "other" game has replaced it with its own answer "Epics".
It is sad to see as a behavior in a game, it is even more sad to see games focusing on rewards as a replacement for fun.
The queue system is def. broken because most games I have been in any tier not just admiral have one side with a major numbers advantage over the other for long enough that there is no winning for the other side. And yes oddly enough at admiral rank I am usually getting into a game 1-3 fed(my team) vs 5-7 klingons for a long enough time that there is no hope for the feds. I refuse to believe it is people hitting snooze or just not noticing or being afk when it happens so much and there are so many people in the queue.
Another problem I see is federation players just fighting in the area right in front of the star base...... and the game ends rather quickly.
Don't go to ra5 then start to pvp....make a new guy and mess around with him in pvp for a while....learn the basics because apparently you arent just making your own team mates mad but the few klingons who actually want a fight
In fact I was just in a game, right when I joined so did 4 other feds. 5 federation ships vs 1 klingon but heres the good part. Somehow this klingon had this game to themselves long enough that they capped all 5 bases and had the score 1200 to 800 by the time the 5 of us joined.
PvP Ques are most definatly borked. I play PvP for fun, dont care about rewards (tho i do like to see my name at the top of the charts :P ) but thats just about winning rather than rewards.
The unbalanced teams thing really bugs me aswell, i like a good fight. Not outnumbering some poor Klink who is on his own agaisnt 5 feds. That is not fun to me, and i feel so sorry for the poor buggers who get gang TRIBBLE like that. That being said, kudos to the klinks who stick to and fight till the end, balls of solid rock
The best games are when its so close all the way to the end of the match that its anybodies guess as to who is going to win, those are the games i play for!
I don't get any prizes for winning a round of Team Fortress 2.
I don't get purple loot for winning a match of Starcraft.
If it's fun, you'll play it regardless of rewards.
If it not fun, you shouldn't play it just because you get some purple piece of loot.
Rewards can be nice and they do help provide a sense of investment but if that's the main reason you play these games then I think you need to step back and re-examine your entertainment options.
Maybe this is where the MMORPG industry is failing. They need to understand that the purpose of rewards is to provide a sense of investment to people who are already enjoying the game. If loot is being used as a substitute for good gameplay, then the game is only going to last as long as the loot keeps coming.
Personally I have thousands of T5 PvP medals. I have no use for them. I never cared about the daily rewards (my skill points are all in Disruptors, so the purple loots don't do much for me). I still played tons of matches just because it was fun. Apparently I am one of the few people who actually enjoys STO gameplay because I don't care about the loot and I play anyway.
So the real question is not, "where are the rewards".
The real question is, "why isn't the gameplay good enough that people will just play for fun?" What makes gameplay so dull that people are only playing it for the purple loots?
Well if you like FPS most then its understandable. Team Fortress, Quake etc. are surely great games, for people who like that type of game. For me the most entertaining games are RPGs, that means leveling up, getting better items, having some story etc. - of course combat is important to me as well, but its not the only thing I expect. So when I play MMO I want it to be RPG mainly, this means also having rewards for actions. So I like leveling up for example much more than playing endgame character without getting anything. Thats why I made second char after reaching RA5 with first one - because simply there was nothing more to achieve with RA5 (if you dont count dailies that last only for a while). Its all about what people like and most MMOs are not FPS multiplayer really.
So gameplay is fun, but different people can have different opinion on what is good gameplay.
I havent really been playing the past few days due to the work schedule at work. But, I did get some time to read the forums a bit and noticed one that stuck out to me. It was a 1v1 thread that made alot of sense to me. Granted I dont think it would happen, but maybe a faction 1v1 option where its fed vs fed 1v1 and klink vs klink 1v1 with a very small reward system that scales to it. I think its 23 medals for a regular 5v5, so maybe 2 medals for a 1v1 to help limit how many people do this. It could work, but at the same time probably wont.
On a side note I would like to ask everyone that is in a match not to let themselves get farmed. Fight, because that is the only way you will get experience and learn how to do something when the time comes.
Comments
1) Broken queues that result in 5v1 or worse, quite frequently
2) Broken reward systems that result in suiciders
I don't get any prizes for winning a round of Team Fortress 2.
I don't get purple loot for winning a match of Starcraft.
If it's fun, you'll play it regardless of rewards.
If it not fun, you shouldn't play it just because you get some purple piece of loot.
Rewards can be nice and they do help provide a sense of investment but if that's the main reason you play these games then I think you need to step back and re-examine your entertainment options.
Maybe this is where the MMORPG industry is failing. They need to understand that the purpose of rewards is to provide a sense of investment to people who are already enjoying the game. If loot is being used as a substitute for good gameplay, then the game is only going to last as long as the loot keeps coming.
Personally I have thousands of T5 PvP medals. I have no use for them. I never cared about the daily rewards (my skill points are all in Disruptors, so the purple loots don't do much for me). I still played tons of matches just because it was fun. Apparently I am one of the few people who actually enjoys STO gameplay because I don't care about the loot and I play anyway.
So the real question is not, "where are the rewards".
The real question is, "why isn't the gameplay good enough that people will just play for fun?" What makes gameplay so dull that people are only playing it for the purple loots?
I agree with you 125%. Somewhere along the line, people started confusing the dessert with the main course.
As for people needing purples to go do things... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect
1) The Queue is baddly broken.
2) Klingon ships are indeed superior to that of Federation ships. (I play both and I can safely say this).
3) Due to the STO's mechanics, Federation players don't know about Teamwork and easily get trumped by Klingon players all the time. With their only saving grace is Fed Balls (space) or Hedgehogging (ground PvP in hiding behind layers of Fabrications).
4) Drastic imbalance of BO skills.
And on top of it, the new Crit system they are testing on Tribble thats drastically overpowered and will make Escorts the "Now" ship, making Cruisers sitting ducks.
Honestly, I'm convinced that Cryptic has absolutely 0 ideas about PvP mechanics.
The first just really annoys me, I have been getting a lot of 5vs1 fights (on both sides) and yes sometimes I ill just suicide myself in to one of them just to see how long I last though I never stay to the end and just warp out after (eg no reward).
imho the problem with queues is two fold.
- First of all I am sure a lot of people are like me and queue up for 3 zones, and then we are in one and we forget about the others but the game thinks we are still wanting to get into them. So I think that once we enter a pvp area they should remove us from all other queues and make it impossible to join one untill we are back in 'normal space'
- Second I think we get to much time to join, bring the countdown for joining down to 10-15 seconds, with the snooze option not to reserve a place in the current map, but to keep you on top of the pile for the next batch of invites.
Also it might be good to add a 'this instance is unbalanced' feature that will freeze us at the beginning and forces us to wait a maximum of 2 minutes to let the instance even out, if it is not even after that it should just terminate the instance.
If you know you're about to be called, you would drop what you are doing and wait. Instead of waiting for an hour for a chance for it to appear.
I'm with you on this 100%. I PvP because it is fun. This is the same reason I played Quake, Quakeworld, HL, all thier mods, etc. before MMOS. Fun.
Sadly MMOs attract too many Achievers who do not care about playing for the fun of it.
Ask Blizzard :P
That being said, I agree wit you completelly, but I am afraid we maybe in a minority here. Most people are simply Reward Driven, and many more have been made in to being that way with "habits" instilled to them by that "other" game, or simply by society itself "What is in it for me?" is a question almost everyone asks in everything they do in life, the problem is that in this case the answer should be "fun", and that "other" game has replaced it with its own answer "Epics".
It is sad to see as a behavior in a game, it is even more sad to see games focusing on rewards as a replacement for fun.
Another problem I see is federation players just fighting in the area right in front of the star base...... and the game ends rather quickly.
Don't go to ra5 then start to pvp....make a new guy and mess around with him in pvp for a while....learn the basics because apparently you arent just making your own team mates mad but the few klingons who actually want a fight
In fact I was just in a game, right when I joined so did 4 other feds. 5 federation ships vs 1 klingon but heres the good part. Somehow this klingon had this game to themselves long enough that they capped all 5 bases and had the score 1200 to 800 by the time the 5 of us joined.
The unbalanced teams thing really bugs me aswell, i like a good fight. Not outnumbering some poor Klink who is on his own agaisnt 5 feds. That is not fun to me, and i feel so sorry for the poor buggers who get gang TRIBBLE like that. That being said, kudos to the klinks who stick to and fight till the end, balls of solid rock
The best games are when its so close all the way to the end of the match that its anybodies guess as to who is going to win, those are the games i play for!
Well if you like FPS most then its understandable. Team Fortress, Quake etc. are surely great games, for people who like that type of game. For me the most entertaining games are RPGs, that means leveling up, getting better items, having some story etc. - of course combat is important to me as well, but its not the only thing I expect. So when I play MMO I want it to be RPG mainly, this means also having rewards for actions. So I like leveling up for example much more than playing endgame character without getting anything. Thats why I made second char after reaching RA5 with first one - because simply there was nothing more to achieve with RA5 (if you dont count dailies that last only for a while). Its all about what people like and most MMOs are not FPS multiplayer really.
So gameplay is fun, but different people can have different opinion on what is good gameplay.
On a side note I would like to ask everyone that is in a match not to let themselves get farmed. Fight, because that is the only way you will get experience and learn how to do something when the time comes.