This weekend I was several times blamed for cheating. This is unfair and totally incorrect. I have a science klingon toon called Tigerpfoetchen and I wear only stuff what you can get from PvP medals.
I started klingon side as soon as I was able to do this (lvl6) and because of there is (nearly) no PvE content for klingons I've been in ground battles over and over again. And it was successfull in 90% at all.
I am almost happy with ground pvp. Just two small often discussed issues I would change.
1. fix the map at Cruiser near the bridge where you always run into a black hole
2. remove the possibility to permanent stunt/hold over and over again.
But this is not the content for this thread. I just wanna tell everybody, that I am not cheating. I even not know how to. We did very well this weekend. I am very proud especially on two situations. One on saturday where 4 Klingon survived a spawn camping of 5 Feds (all feds had to push on "Respawn" none of us) and the other one on sunday where me and another science (Acoy I believe) won against 5 Feds 40:18. Again: 2:5 and 40:18 ! That was a crasy run, I loved it. To my shame I didn't took a screen shot.
So the main reason in my oppinion is: Klingons aren't overpowered. Feds just dont know how to play PvP. They hang around doing PvE and think PvP is as easy as killing NPCs. And this is totally wrong. If you want to succeed in PvP you have to know at least some circumstances:
Know your map: Don't run directly into the enemy and start firing until you or your opponent is down. Know the sideways (especially in Ghostship) use flanking bonus as often as possible.
Regroup but not to much: If your party is spreaded come together and stay close. But if you run into the enemy, spread out to avoid AOE effects. We often run into Fed groups which all knee at the same spot, easy targets for AOE. We split up right flank, left flank and they go down in once.
I dont wanna disclose all my secret of success, but I want to have some good fights again. There were a few runs 5:5 or 4:5 which were really tough and took long time. If Feds are playing together and know what to do, than they are as good as klingons are. So it is not a matter of imbalance, it's just a matter of teamplay.
Like in primitive cultures; when something happens that can't be explained it's either:
- God
- Spirits
- Aliens
- whatever silly thing; but NOT something normal that people can't understand yet.
In PvP if they can't explain it:
- you're OP
- you cheat
- whatever silly thing; but NOT their lack of understanding of the game mechanics, or basic counters...
Or if we take chess... a newb will say:
- White is OP... they have an unfair advantage; they play first!
- Grandmaster X cheats! Look he moves two pieces! I can only move one! ... just a castling 0-0-0
In the end; no one admits their own shortcomings; we all have too much ego to even consider we might not know everything; or understand everything; or that we are just plain noobs.
I know that cases well enough; cheater, exploiter, glitcher, ..., spawncamper, Ganker. One of my favorits was a fight against two enemies. They pushed me hard, because they were not bad, but at least i kicked their asses several times. One of them accept this and the other blame me for anything. Then their team full his rankes and the first zone commend of this guy was "He was spawncamping the whole time!". That was funny indeed. An interessting way to explain the stats.
Before playing sto i did not know the most of this insults, so i used google to find out what they mean. I've got several reports, players leaving the map and so on. At least i take it with humor and i recommend you to do the same. You can't change those people. They can not understand how you can beat them so often or so easely. They do not know that there is always a better one and losing is part of a game.
@hivewasp:
As I said already I'm very angry about myself not taking a screenshot about our 2:5 (40:18) run.
Meanwhile I read your thread about OrganizedPvP and Ive got a question: Is this only space or do you also manage Ground PvP?
If Ground is also on your duty, then I like to join and test it.
CU Folks
Tigerpfoetchen
Well we discuss a bit of everything; as for private matches at the moment its a bit quite... strange since we now have 400 members; was a lot more active with only 50. But maybe it's just people burnt out... or trying to complete other stuff (infected, dailies). The channel's about all PvP; so ground is also include, even though i'm not particularly fan of ground pvp.
This weekend I saw a fed player in the Captain bracket of ground PvP who had no idea you could crouch (aim). He kept asking why we could "kneel down" and he couldn't.
Still in the same bracket, I saw a Fed Officier telling her buddies to focus fire on one of my team mates because he was "a one-shoter", when I exposed and vaporised her later, she then said that our "whole team were one-shoters", called us "cheaters", and left. How the hell do you get to Captain without knowing about the expose/exploit mechanic ?
Then you have the usual players calling you a cheater when you play a science officier with a mass expose kit (like Geophysicist or Bioresearcher), I don't really blame those because I find it overpowered myself even when I'm the one playing it.
How the hell do you get to Captain without knowing about the expose/exploit mechanic ?
PvE. My first char was admiral befor i started a new one and tried some PvP. Ground combat at pve is different and i never cared about expose and exploits. Everything starts with pvp and you become aware of all the possibilities.
I did a couple of ground PvP last week and got my head handed to me. The Feds are just not as well organize as the Klingons in Ground PvP. Plus, it takes to long to activate our powers.
I would like to know how some players seem to get 100% expose...Even my science characters can't manage what I see in some games.
That and getting an expose when they completely miss.
Or better yet, get an expose without ever doing any actions.
Ground PvP is buggy toward the Klink's advantage imho. I don't think anyone is attempting to cheat, just that they don't realize what's happening fully.
I would like to know how some players seem to get 100% expose...Even my science characters can't manage what I see in some games.
This has been something I've thought was fishy for a while.
I think there are things in the game that get a higher than 10% expose chance. A while back someone did a limited test with a particular stun pistol and got about a 30% expose rate. Granted to really test it you'd need to fire it hundreds of times but he apparently fired a few dozen times and got exposed about 1 in every 3 shots if I recall correctly (there's a youtube video of this somewhere).
I would very much like to see a developer take a pass through the code and verify that nothing in the game is getting more than 10% expose rates, and that any talents that increase expose rates ("Lucky") are working properly.
I think there are things in the game that get a higher than 10% expose chance.
I don't believe that there is a math problem with this 10% but....
I only can speak of a Science: I ve got two kit abilities with a expose chance of 10% := 20%
I ve got a weapon with expose chance and this weapon gives me a rifle butt := 20%
So if I use all abilities and the enemy is rooted, snared or even hold, then it is only a matter of short time to get one of these exposes to exploid. Meanwhile you get your opponent down enough to one-shoot him...
I found one way to get an expose without even shooting at the enemy.
Engineer ability: Recharge shield. (lvl 5 I think) 10% chance to expose enemy every time THEY fire at you.
Once I saw this in action, I just spammed shield recharge even if it was full. Get 2-3 people shooting at you during the recharge cycle and I almost always got an expose proc.
Good side. It procs well esp if they use rapid fire on you.
Bad side. You have to be under fire so if someone melee's you it never procs.
I found one way to get an expose without even shooting at the enemy.
Engineer ability: Recharge shield. (lvl 5 I think) 10% chance to expose enemy every time THEY fire at you.
Once I saw this in action, I just spammed shield recharge even if it was full. Get 2-3 people shooting at you during the recharge cycle and I almost always got an expose proc.
Good side. It procs well esp if they use rapid fire on you.
Bad side. You have to be under fire so if someone melee's you it never procs.
Not sure if it stacks with the Engineer ability, but Overwatch (Tactical officer Kit ability) has an Expose chance which works in the same way, and that covers all allies nearby plus gives a small resist bonus to them.
Exposes and crowd control are definitely a controversial issue (I could go on for hours, but no wish to bore anyone, lol!). I have seen a number of different players achieving a virtually 100% Expose rate over the course of several consecutive games, so *something* is a little buggy there, and crowd control spam can be annoying when you get more than half the opposing team with heavy crowd control builds.
On the other hand, unless there is a known bug someone is exploiting with a weapon for that higher Expose chance, I see almost no ways to cheat. Bad behaviour? Yes, certainly. Cheating? No - most of what people see as 'cheating' is simply the application of the current game mechanics.
For example, mashing button 3 to keep people held until you Expose them, or Exposing > Exploiting someone may seem like cheating to those who do not PvP often, as will many other playstyles (I see complaints about one-shot kills from Expose > Exploit about two or three times a week, so there are still a few people who do not understand the mechanic well yet).
As a Tactical officer who invests purely in ground Traits and skills and takes a pair of split beam weapons (yes, I know those are about to get rebalanced - about time) I regularly do somewhere between double and quadruple the damage of the next highest person in the ground PvP match. I'm sure some people think I am cheating when they look at the final scoreboard after a match, but you can not really compare someone who prepares for PvP and does almost nothing else to up to others who PvE most of the time and gear/skill up for space combat instead, and I think this accounts for a lot of the accusations of cheating that some people get.
there was a time when I played my Fed Science toon, and most times ran into Klingon Science toon, we had the same kit, same 2 weapons. This player in 1 skill combo can get an expose, and exploit. In turn if I had the chance to do the same skill combo, I could not get the expose, not after 4-5 tries. Where as the player, with the same kit could get the expose 1-2 attempts. My toon is an Vulcan, the opponent was Alien, Stasis field kit (CPT bracket) All I could think of, it was the racial traits chosen at the character creation that gave this player the edge to get an expose early. "luck?" nah...
there was a time when I played my Fed Science toon, and most times ran into Klingon Science toon, we had the same kit, same 2 weapons. This player in 1 skill combo can get an expose, and exploit. In turn if I had the chance to do the same skill combo, I could not get the expose, not after 4-5 tries. Where as the player, with the same kit could get the expose 1-2 attempts. My toon is an Vulcan, the opponent was Alien, Stasis field kit (CPT bracket) All I could think of, it was the racial traits chosen at the character creation that gave this player the edge to get an expose early. "luck?" nah...
The Telepathic Trait gives an extra 1.5% chance to Expose, which brings a 10% chance up to 11.5%.
Just as a rough guide, these are the chances you will have Exposed someone by your nth ability, going from 1 to 5 Expose attempts, with (and without) the Telepathic Trait :
Numbers are rounded to 1 decimal for ease of use, base 10% Expose chance assumed for all abilities.
Note that this still means you have a better than 50% chance to have used 5 abilities and not Exposed them, even with Telepathic. That said, for a Science officer with the right Kit, Exposes are fairly common.
Edit for poor typing. Also note that if a Science officer kicks off with Statis Field, unless someone breaks the hold with damage you should be able to use all your other Expose abilities and an Exploit attack before Stasis Field ends (that's 'should' in the sense that you have sufficient time, not 'should' in the sense that I think this is appropriate).
PvE. My first char was admiral befor i started a new one and tried some PvP. Ground combat at pve is different and i never cared about expose and exploits. Everything starts with pvp and you become aware of all the possibilities.
Well no offense meant but the expose/exploit mechanic is fully explained in the tutorial.
I would like to know how some players seem to get 100% expose...Even my science characters can't manage what I see in some games.
I can tell you one thing for sure, exploit chance on science abilities seems far greater than 10%. I have an Orion science captain I PvP with and it's pretty stupid how easy it is to get an expose on multiple people with him.
Get the Bioresearcher kit, use Stasis Field on your target, if he's not exposed yet then use Tricoder Scan, if no one is exposed yet use Tachyon Harmonics, if he's still not exposed use Hyperonic Radiation, then Neural Neutralizer, Nanoprobe infestation and so on. And this is only the worst case scenario ; most of the time you'll get an expose on the second or third ability you use and sometimes it's on multiple targets at the same time.
The fact is that you can launch multiple abilities almost instantly if you time it right and that the cooldown on some of them (Tachyon Harmonics notably) is so low that you can keep up a rotation until you get that expose you wanted on at least one guy. Then you just have to get your trusty Split Beam out and exploit away.
Like in primitive cultures; when something happens that can't be explained it's either:
- God
- Spirits
- Aliens
- whatever silly thing; but NOT something normal that people can't understand yet.
In PvP if they can't explain it:
- you're OP
- you cheat
- whatever silly thing; but NOT their lack of understanding of the game mechanics, or basic counters...
Or if we take chess... a newb will say:
- White is OP... they have an unfair advantage; they play first!
- Grandmaster X cheats! Look he moves two pieces! I can only move one! ... just a castling 0-0-0
In the end; no one admits their own shortcomings; we all have too much ego to even consider we might not know everything; or understand everything; or that we are just plain noobs.
The same thing can be said of a side that actually IS overpowered - the ignorant will often claim that it's just skill, not allowing for the possibility that an imbalance can and often does exist.
I will tell you what is cheating and that is hiding at the start point of a PvP match and never engagement any enemy and still getting points or warping to the far edge of the PvP map and staying there. The same people do it for the Deep Space missions.
Comments
Well except for me, I call people exploiters (when the shoe fits).
Don't let it bother you.
- God
- Spirits
- Aliens
- whatever silly thing; but NOT something normal that people can't understand yet.
In PvP if they can't explain it:
- you're OP
- you cheat
- whatever silly thing; but NOT their lack of understanding of the game mechanics, or basic counters...
Or if we take chess... a newb will say:
- White is OP... they have an unfair advantage; they play first!
- Grandmaster X cheats! Look he moves two pieces! I can only move one! ... just a castling 0-0-0
In the end; no one admits their own shortcomings; we all have too much ego to even consider we might not know everything; or understand everything; or that we are just plain noobs.
Before playing sto i did not know the most of this insults, so i used google to find out what they mean. I've got several reports, players leaving the map and so on. At least i take it with humor and i recommend you to do the same. You can't change those people. They can not understand how you can beat them so often or so easely. They do not know that there is always a better one and losing is part of a game.
bye
Ceilin
As I said already I'm very angry about myself not taking a screenshot about our 2:5 (40:18) run.
Meanwhile I read your thread about OrganizedPvP and Ive got a question: Is this only space or do you also manage Ground PvP?
If Ground is also on your duty, then I like to join and test it.
CU Folks
Tigerpfoetchen
Well we discuss a bit of everything; as for private matches at the moment its a bit quite... strange since we now have 400 members; was a lot more active with only 50. But maybe it's just people burnt out... or trying to complete other stuff (infected, dailies). The channel's about all PvP; so ground is also include, even though i'm not particularly fan of ground pvp.
that was heavy abuse of feedback pulse by the looks of it
and you KNOW that ability is bugged against beams
so really, that screenshot didn't really say anything.
Just proves that people will suicide like lemmings if they don't know how to counter it. And yes it can be countered...
Still in the same bracket, I saw a Fed Officier telling her buddies to focus fire on one of my team mates because he was "a one-shoter", when I exposed and vaporised her later, she then said that our "whole team were one-shoters", called us "cheaters", and left. How the hell do you get to Captain without knowing about the expose/exploit mechanic ?
Then you have the usual players calling you a cheater when you play a science officier with a mass expose kit (like Geophysicist or Bioresearcher), I don't really blame those because I find it overpowered myself even when I'm the one playing it.
But still, some people have no clue.
PvE. My first char was admiral befor i started a new one and tried some PvP. Ground combat at pve is different and i never cared about expose and exploits. Everything starts with pvp and you become aware of all the possibilities.
That's what I mean. We are not standing around and wait until someone comes up to kill us. We are over them before they even can spell PvP.
And if they don't know the difference between PvE and PvP than they are to feed the fish.
That and getting an expose when they completely miss.
Or better yet, get an expose without ever doing any actions.
Ground PvP is buggy toward the Klink's advantage imho. I don't think anyone is attempting to cheat, just that they don't realize what's happening fully.
This has been something I've thought was fishy for a while.
I think there are things in the game that get a higher than 10% expose chance. A while back someone did a limited test with a particular stun pistol and got about a 30% expose rate. Granted to really test it you'd need to fire it hundreds of times but he apparently fired a few dozen times and got exposed about 1 in every 3 shots if I recall correctly (there's a youtube video of this somewhere).
I would very much like to see a developer take a pass through the code and verify that nothing in the game is getting more than 10% expose rates, and that any talents that increase expose rates ("Lucky") are working properly.
I don't believe that there is a math problem with this 10% but....
I only can speak of a Science: I ve got two kit abilities with a expose chance of 10% := 20%
I ve got a weapon with expose chance and this weapon gives me a rifle butt := 20%
So if I use all abilities and the enemy is rooted, snared or even hold, then it is only a matter of short time to get one of these exposes to exploid. Meanwhile you get your opponent down enough to one-shoot him...
Engineer ability: Recharge shield. (lvl 5 I think) 10% chance to expose enemy every time THEY fire at you.
Once I saw this in action, I just spammed shield recharge even if it was full. Get 2-3 people shooting at you during the recharge cycle and I almost always got an expose proc.
Good side. It procs well esp if they use rapid fire on you.
Bad side. You have to be under fire so if someone melee's you it never procs.
Not sure if it stacks with the Engineer ability, but Overwatch (Tactical officer Kit ability) has an Expose chance which works in the same way, and that covers all allies nearby plus gives a small resist bonus to them.
Exposes and crowd control are definitely a controversial issue (I could go on for hours, but no wish to bore anyone, lol!). I have seen a number of different players achieving a virtually 100% Expose rate over the course of several consecutive games, so *something* is a little buggy there, and crowd control spam can be annoying when you get more than half the opposing team with heavy crowd control builds.
On the other hand, unless there is a known bug someone is exploiting with a weapon for that higher Expose chance, I see almost no ways to cheat. Bad behaviour? Yes, certainly. Cheating? No - most of what people see as 'cheating' is simply the application of the current game mechanics.
For example, mashing button 3 to keep people held until you Expose them, or Exposing > Exploiting someone may seem like cheating to those who do not PvP often, as will many other playstyles (I see complaints about one-shot kills from Expose > Exploit about two or three times a week, so there are still a few people who do not understand the mechanic well yet).
As a Tactical officer who invests purely in ground Traits and skills and takes a pair of split beam weapons (yes, I know those are about to get rebalanced - about time) I regularly do somewhere between double and quadruple the damage of the next highest person in the ground PvP match. I'm sure some people think I am cheating when they look at the final scoreboard after a match, but you can not really compare someone who prepares for PvP and does almost nothing else to up to others who PvE most of the time and gear/skill up for space combat instead, and I think this accounts for a lot of the accusations of cheating that some people get.
The Telepathic Trait gives an extra 1.5% chance to Expose, which brings a 10% chance up to 11.5%.
Just as a rough guide, these are the chances you will have Exposed someone by your nth ability, going from 1 to 5 Expose attempts, with (and without) the Telepathic Trait :
Attempt 1 - 11.5% (10.0%)
Attempt 2 - 21.7% (19.0%)
Attempt 3 - 30.7% (27.1%)
Attempt 4 - 38.7% (34.4%)
Attempt 5 - 45.7% (41.0%)
Numbers are rounded to 1 decimal for ease of use, base 10% Expose chance assumed for all abilities.
Note that this still means you have a better than 50% chance to have used 5 abilities and not Exposed them, even with Telepathic. That said, for a Science officer with the right Kit, Exposes are fairly common.
Edit for poor typing. Also note that if a Science officer kicks off with Statis Field, unless someone breaks the hold with damage you should be able to use all your other Expose abilities and an Exploit attack before Stasis Field ends (that's 'should' in the sense that you have sufficient time, not 'should' in the sense that I think this is appropriate).
Well no offense meant but the expose/exploit mechanic is fully explained in the tutorial.
I can tell you one thing for sure, exploit chance on science abilities seems far greater than 10%. I have an Orion science captain I PvP with and it's pretty stupid how easy it is to get an expose on multiple people with him.
Get the Bioresearcher kit, use Stasis Field on your target, if he's not exposed yet then use Tricoder Scan, if no one is exposed yet use Tachyon Harmonics, if he's still not exposed use Hyperonic Radiation, then Neural Neutralizer, Nanoprobe infestation and so on. And this is only the worst case scenario ; most of the time you'll get an expose on the second or third ability you use and sometimes it's on multiple targets at the same time.
The fact is that you can launch multiple abilities almost instantly if you time it right and that the cooldown on some of them (Tachyon Harmonics notably) is so low that you can keep up a rotation until you get that expose you wanted on at least one guy. Then you just have to get your trusty Split Beam out and exploit away.
The same thing can be said of a side that actually IS overpowered - the ignorant will often claim that it's just skill, not allowing for the possibility that an imbalance can and often does exist.
The truth is usually in the middle....