Considering the queues are so long on Federations side, sometimes stretching up to 50mins just to join a PvP encounter. Klingons gets the chance of doing PvP 2 more times during that same time frame.
Coming down to math at this point, PvP rewards on klingon side are 3 times higher due to the fact they get to join more often the queue.
They in return can fully equip their ship while most feds are still making due with their earnings.
I also notice the survivability with dps of a klingon ship way outweighs one of a starfleet ship, considering many have cloaks allowing them to setup tactics feds can't even dream or exploit.
I find hull on many Klingon ships are way too high for the option they have for a fast getaway.
Not all Klingon ships, but many I find should receive a hull decrease, except for the carrier and perhaps the BoP.
As controversial as this topic has been and can be seen throughout this forum. One common thing always surface, Klingons in general refuses to fight other Klingons. This says much of how imbalance Klingons are and Klingons inadvertently admits this by refusing to fight each other.
So the questions isn't if Klingons are OP, the question is what nerf are they willing to accept.
As long as Klingons prefers fighting Federation over other Klingons because it is easier... it is as long as Klingon is required to be toned down.
Considering the queues are so long on Federations side, sometimes stretching up to 50mins just to join a PvP encounter. Klingons gets the chance of doing PvP 2 more times during that same time frame.
Coming down to math at this point, PvP rewards on klingon side are 3 times higher due to the fact they get to join more often the queue.
They in return can fully equip their ship while most feds are still making due with their earnings.
I also notice the survivability with dps of a klingon ship way outweighs one of a starfleet ship, considering many have cloaks allowing them to setup tactics feds can't even dream or exploit.
I find hull on many Klingon ships are way too high for the option they have for a fast getaway.
Not all Klingon ships, but many I find should receive a hull decrease, except for the carrier and perhaps the BoP.
As controversial as this topic has been and can be seen throughout this forum. One common thing always surface, Klingons in general refuses to fight other Klingons. This says much of how imbalance Klingons are and Klingons inadvertently admits this by refusing to fight each other.
So the questions isn't if Klingons are OP, the question is what nerf are they willing to accept.
As long as Klingons prefers fighting Federation over other Klingons because it is easier... it is as long as Klingon is required to be toned down.
Klingons has spoken by their actions.
My 2 energy credits.
You speak as if these klingons are someone else? the klingons are YOU , and by YOU refusing to lvl one to cap YOU are holding the game back......
I made my general to help with the Q's but when i get on my RA i have to wait 30 mins cuz you wont get off your REAR...............................................Admiral and make a Klingon.
Many of the top generals have done k vs k infact we did it to lvl fast early on . now we cant even get enogh players to fight the feds , how on earth do you except us to get enogh players to fight each other??????
MAKE A KLINGON , if you Really care about this game YOU will.
Considering the queues are so long on Federations side, sometimes stretching up to 50mins just to join a PvP encounter. Klingons gets the chance of doing PvP 2 more times during that same time frame.
Coming down to math at this point, PvP rewards on klingon side are 3 times higher due to the fact they get to join more often the queue.
They in return can fully equip their ship while most feds are still making due with their earnings.
I also notice the survivability with dps of a klingon ship way outweighs one of a starfleet ship, considering many have cloaks allowing them to setup tactics feds can't even dream or exploit.
I find hull on many Klingon ships are way too high for the option they have for a fast getaway.
Not all Klingon ships, but many I find should receive a hull decrease, except for the carrier and perhaps the BoP.
As controversial as this topic has been and can be seen throughout this forum. One common thing always surface, Klingons in general refuses to fight other Klingons. This says much of how imbalance Klingons are and Klingons inadvertently admits this by refusing to fight each other.
So the questions isn't if Klingons are OP, the question is what nerf are they willing to accept.
As long as Klingons prefers fighting Federation over other Klingons because it is easier... it is as long as Klingon is required to be toned down.
Klingons has spoken by their actions.
My 2 energy credits.
You know when you are right you are right I say they should tone down the amount of rewards the klingons get from pvp and force them to do PvE missions to get the bulk of their equipment and credits.....oh wait.
You speak as if these klingons are someone else? the klingons are YOU , and by YOU refusing to lvl one to cap YOU are holding the game back......
I made my general to help with the Q's but when i get on my RA i have to wait 30 mins cuz you wont get off your REAR...............................................Admiral and make a Klingon.
Many of the top generals have done k vs k infact we did it to lvl fast early on . now we cant even get enogh players to fight the feds , how on earth do you except us to get enogh players to fight each other??????
MAKE A KLINGON , if you Really care about this game YOU will.
I dislike the Red UI and I always played the "side of Good", regardless how the balance going to work out. Nothing going to make me play something else than feds, so your critic pretty much went down the toilet.
You know when you are right you are right I say they should tone down the amount of rewards the klingons get from pvp and force them to do PvE missions to get the bulk of their equipment and credits.....oh wait.
PvE reward is a joke versus the PvP counterparts, any serious PvPer knows this. And I see no reason why Klingons would do PvE if they were given the option.
I dislike the Red UI and I always played the "side of Good", regardless how the balance going to work out. Nothing going to make me play something else than feds, so your critic pretty much went down the toilet.
Um the Klingons are the good side....general worf begged the feds to join the fight to free the Gorn of the shapeshifters , insted of helping the empire and listening to former starfleet officer worf they declared war on the empire.....hmmm now why would the fedration not want to free a ppl of the alpha quad. of Undine? hmmmmm The fedration is controlled by evil shapeshifters.
This is all ingame text not some "story" im making up ethier.
Um the Klingons are the good side....general worf begged the feds to join the fight to free the Gorn of the shapeshifters , insted of helping the empire and listening to form starfleet officer worf they declared war on the empire.....hmmm now why would the fedration not want to free a ppl of the alpha quad. of Undine? hmmmmm The fedration is controlled by evil shapeshifters.
This is all ingame text not some "story" im making up ethier.
The federation isn't the shapeshifters, and regardless how trouble starts within your forces, the federation, not the fake clones, but the federation stands for a lot of good. A mass of species where the primary mission is to explore can't be viewed as your typical evil.
On the other hand, Klingon favorite quote "It is a good day to die".
The federation isn't the shapeshifters, and regardless how trouble starts within your forces, the federation, not the fake clones, but the federation stands for a lot of good. A mass of species where the primary mission is to explore can't be viewed as your typical evil.
On the other hand, Klingon favorite quote "It is a good day to die".
Fedration IS the shapeshifters , Why would the fedration not help free the Gorn of shapeshifters?
and explore huh? ya the borg explore then force a ppl to join them also.
PvE reward is a joke versus the PvP counterparts, any serious PvPer knows this. And I see no reason why Klingons would do PvE if they were given the option.
Feel free to come to the Klingon side and check out those great PvP reward merchants anytime especially since we are missing Mk X shields/Deflectors/Engines.
So if you didnt get the hint the first time let me spell it out leave the Klingon faction alone,if it was that great being a Klingon side player im sure there would be more people there than there are now.
im sorry OP but u speak out of ignorance. your points are thus:1. kling equip faster. 2. PvP rewards are better for klingon. 3. klingons can PvP twice as much 4.Klingon ships have too great of hull. 5. suvivability vs Dps
1. its not faster to equip a klingnon ship, its slower, coming from the rank up we have 0 of that PvP currancy and worse stock equipment than we've already earned. on average its taken me to sub rank 5 or 6 to be completly refit with the mark gear of my rank and thats dipping into the exchange for buying expensive things in terms of pvp points (engines, deflectors). at 30ish points a battle and a little over 100 just for a weapon, and then a new weapon for each slot...u get the point, your "math" is wrong. feds havve access to mission reward items higher than their rank so when they rank up they already fresh gear to equip, not to mention feds also have access to pvp gear the same as we do.
2. everything except shield systems are green, shields being blue. enjoy. im not even sure how a klingon can get blues or purples outside of exchange, how many blue mission rewards are there? tons.
3. i cant speak for everyone(well, no, i sorta can) but the PvP queis pretty bare when it comes to kvk, ive only done one so far which means 100% of my exp and badges are earned at the same rate as the feds im fighting(theres been less downtime getting a match than flying from system to system on fed.
4. klings have lower shield and hull than their fed counterparts and BoP ranks the absolute lowest.
5. most if not all klings go full weap power and then BO power or cloak for suriviability. im not sure what feds go but sci vessels might go full aux from time to time b/c it helps with their detection and powers, cruisers might go shields from time to time; those 2 classes depending on the player are lowering their DPS to fit their percieved role but pretty much all klings understand firepower>all . so with focus fire it might seem kllingons are stronger but its just tactics vs no tactics.
1. Well put. Have to wait to gear up. No green or blue rewards to put in the bank until you level up. Less is available on the exchange and for ridiculous prices compared to the Fed exchange.
2. Same.
3. There aren't enough players for KvK and when there are it takes forever...not because it's overpowered and to hard to play, but simply because everyone is cloaked 90% of the time and trying to get the drop. It's waist of time.
4. K shields are a joke. Why do you think they cloak and run so much and fight so hard?
5. K isn;t as easy as anyone who hasn't played it thinks. T1-2 are slow grinding with little variety. Cloak loses value as you climb in rank. Even when we win 15/0, I and my team often are at 8% hull and 2% shields at the end of each exchange. We work in groups better...for the most part...than Feds do. When I come up against an equal fed group that knows how to play their class and ship as well as support each other and focus fire...the K team loses every time.
6. PvE dulls your PvP skills. It spoils you that you can;t kill a player like a NPC ship.
Considering the queues are so long on Federations side, sometimes stretching up to 50mins just to join a PvP encounter. Klingons gets the chance of doing PvP 2 more times during that same time frame.
And its how klingons level... we don't go PvP only when we are bored or when we run out of patrols/missions and need points to level. We don't go there at the end of a rank... we are ALWAYS in PvP.
They in return can fully equip their ship while most feds are still making due with their earnings.
Yes; and many federation rewards are much much better than the generic green/blues from PvP vendors; if those vendors actually worked for all items that is... since there are some Mk II items listed as Lt Commander instead of Lt; that the Mk X shield/engines/deflector pvp rewards are innexistant; that the tier 4 items use the wrong medals; and so on...
I find hull on many Klingon ships are way too high for the option they have for a fast getaway.
1) Check the actual numbers..
2) what fast getaway? only 1 ship has battlecloak; it drops shields; and it has the least structure of all ships in the game. As for a fast getaway; ANYONE can do it... Evasive Manoeuver? All captains have it early; emergency power to engines? available through BO's for everyone... Engine batteries? Available to all once again... use those 3; and you have a getaway. It works better than battlecloaking.
Klingons in general refuses to fight other Klingons. This says much of how imbalance Klingons are and Klingons inadvertently admits this by refusing to fight each other.
I sure hope you dont plan a carreer in programming or any other activity where logic is involved. It has nothing to do with being unbalanced. Most klingons want to fight feds; you know;... like in the show... Klingons don't like the civil war. The day devs will add a system of fleet/house wars; i'm sure plenty of klingon fleets will just battle each other for fun. But for day to day pvp; its 1) faster to get in a queue against feds; 2) more interesting.
As for your argument; you can say the opposite thing as well then; when FvF hits live servers; can we say Feds are too cowardly to fight klingons if they decide to fight each other? FvF just sounds wrong to many trekkies; as does house vs house during wartime.
So the questions isn't if Klingons are OP, the question is what nerf are they willing to accept.
If playing PvP more often than your opponent; getting more player experience about the game mechanics involved during PvP... the only nerf that would work is to have as many PVE options on the klingon side as there are in the Federation side: that way you'll have carebears and noobs on both sides.
As long as Klingons prefers fighting Federation over other Klingons because it is easier... it is as long as Klingon is required to be toned down.
Not because it is easier... a good fed team is harder to beat than klingons. But most are too clueless to even make the difference between jam sensors and cloak. Some come to PvP without any form of shield resists; or heals; or rsp... and if they have RSP; they dont even know how to restore it when it gets disabled.
1. Well put. Have to wait to gear up. No green or blue rewards to put in the bank until you level up. Less is available on the exchange and for ridiculous prices compared to the Fed exchange.
The exchange is shared by both sides; prices are the same.
6. PvE dulls your PvP skills. It spoils you that you can;t kill a player like a NPC ship.
Not just that; but the game mechanics are on a different scale between pve and pvp. NPC don't deal nearly as much damage as a single player can throw at another. NPC's are following scripts; players will react to every one of your actions; and if they have more experience than you, they will anticipate, feint and trick you into situations where you'll lose.
don't forget that a klingon who's getting medals three times as fast, is also getting xp three times as fast. so if klingon queues are popping three times as fast as fed queues, it doesn't mean they'll finish the level bracket with three times the gear -- rather they'll finish the level bracket with the same amount of gear, but they'll get there three times as fast.
you might as well complain that somebody who pvp's 6 hours per day gets 3 times as many medals as somebody who pvp's only 2 hours per day.
The Federation of "Exploration" is not what it really is, its all about finding new planets, new species, and systems to conqueor, to enslave and brainwash the new speicies into believeing the Federation way is the right way...thus the Federation is heavy on Science.
Free thought? no, the Federation has a dark sinister in the shadow organization, that will eliminate you before you can even think of going against them.
Its all a ruse to hide their sinister goals.
as for the Klingons, well, they don't hide, they just do the same things, more openly.
So the real gooood guys/gals are those rebellious types who seek change, who want something different, who in end will do the samething as the previous rulers, in a different way.
Considering the queues are so long on Federations side, sometimes stretching up to 50mins just to join a PvP encounter. Klingons gets the chance of doing PvP 2 more times during that same time frame.
Coming down to math at this point, PvP rewards on klingon side are 3 times higher due to the fact they get to join more often the queue.
They in return can fully equip their ship while most feds are still making due with their earnings.
I also notice the survivability with dps of a klingon ship way outweighs one of a starfleet ship, considering many have cloaks allowing them to setup tactics feds can't even dream or exploit.
I find hull on many Klingon ships are way too high for the option they have for a fast getaway.
Not all Klingon ships, but many I find should receive a hull decrease, except for the carrier and perhaps the BoP.
As controversial as this topic has been and can be seen throughout this forum. One common thing always surface, Klingons in general refuses to fight other Klingons. This says much of how imbalance Klingons are and Klingons inadvertently admits this by refusing to fight each other.
So the questions isn't if Klingons are OP, the question is what nerf are they willing to accept.
As long as Klingons prefers fighting Federation over other Klingons because it is easier... it is as long as Klingon is required to be toned down.
Klingons has spoken by their actions.
My 2 energy credits.
Your theory is flawed. Gearing up has no relevance.
The reason Klingons pvp better is because they pvp more in general. I won't dispute that having faster ques certainly helps with this but the bottom line is the average Klingon just pvps more and therefore becomes better at pvp.
The Feds tend to pvp less so tend to be worse at it. It is obvious when 4 good Fed players end up with that one random Fed that hardly pvps. It cripples there team.
Having played a T5 Klingon for some time I am now working on a Fed. It is far more challenging as a Fed because we always end up with at least one idiot Fed.
Feds are not better at space fights because they do stupid stuff like Full Impulse into a fight. Run off to spawn camp ALONE. Don't pay attention to there ground map and the list goes on and on.
You can throw out all of the game mechanics that people ***** about like Cloak, VM, and general BO slots. The better team wins more often then not in STO. In most cases that is the Klingons because they are just better at pvp in general.
When in my premade Fed groups we seldom lose. When in my premade Klingon groups we seldom lose. From my perspective the better team should win.
That is why I think STO is more balanced then most people think it is.
Fed players can pvp just as much as Klingon players while leveling up. The difference is that the Klingons have a BoP and the Federation does not. Universal BO's is something we have no access to on Fed side. That and cloak. Combine them together and you have a super weapon. Player skill / experience cannot compensate for this.
Fed players can pvp just as much as Klingon players while leveling up. The difference is that the Klingons have a BoP and the Federation does not. Universal BO's is something we have no access to on Fed side. That and cloak. Combine them together and you have a super weapon. Player skill / experience cannot compensate for this.
Sorry but this is just wrong and ignorant. The better team always wins, Fed or Klingon.
While I don't disagree with the difference or that Klingons have distinct advantages. Pointing out some of them is irrelevant to this conversation. Feds have there own advantages as well but again that is irrelevant.
Your points would only be relevant if they lead to 100% victory rate to Klingons. Since it does not you points are superfluous.
You are also correct that a Fed player can pvp as much as a Klingon however as you are fully aware pure pvp does not make up the majority of the Fed team. It does make up 100% of the Klingon team. Statistically speaking the chances of the entire Fed team in any given match having the same amount of experience of a Klingon team would be small.
In STO the better team always wins. PVP exerience or not.
I do not agree with your assessment. I believe STO is more balanced then most people think. I would change some things with the Science skills but short of that I think STO is very balanced.
That is why the better team wins.
Having played many pvp MMO's in the past the best MMO's are the ones that come down to how good your team is. STO is right on track with that balance.
If you are not having success with STO PVP then it is more likely your failings are with your team mates, not the game itself.
Fed players can pvp just as much as Klingon players while leveling up. The difference is that the Klingons have a BoP and the Federation does not. Universal BO's is something we have no access to on Fed side. That and cloak. Combine them together and you have a super weapon. Player skill / experience cannot compensate for this.
u forgot to add "Science Player Captain of BoP w/ universal BO slots, and Cloak"
key class in the mix is Science.
I also beg to differ about player skill/ exp countering Klingon's BoP. its ez to counter a BoP if they are captained by a Tact, or an Eng Player. Science on the other hand, the chances are less likely.
I am boycotting PVP it is broke and unbalanced beyond repair. I went into 4 matches this morning 2 federation vs 8 - 10 Klinks it was a turkey shoot they were popping us at the respawn point impressive skill. The Kingon players who repeatedly attempt to shout down any attempt to balance PVP have ruined the game good going, have fun pvping with 8 - 10 against 1 if you can even find a battle.
I just won't do PVP any more as Federation 2 against 10 is a joke in 1 match much less 4, maybe when Cryptic fixes the mess. I am hearing in test they are removing the damage boost Klingons have and making cloaking and de-cloaking have a 5 second weapons cool down, so I know they are workng on it.
feds advantage over kling other than greater shield and hull and possibly more balanced weapon arrangments( yes, its possible to fly behind a klingonwhere they only have 1-3 turrets mounted, theres nothing in the rule book saying u have to slow to 1/4 impulse and slug it out with only your front shield)? not sure but why overlook that.
the BoP is really just an answer to the fed's sci ship; without the BoP's universal BO slots klingons would have 0 chance to employ abilities like VM and sub nuke. and if u didnt know the BoP has the lowet hull, fewest weapon slots, and fewest BO powers at each tier. these are significant drawbacks. now back to the BoP vs sci ship. a sci ship can do all the things the typical BoP is set up for( aka Sub nuke then VM; and you might complain that a BoP has more firepower but as stated above it doesnt, just change your power settings{i know right? thats a thinker} and maybe rework your weapon config) except the chances a sci officer pilots a sci ship is greater than a sci officer flying a BoPso they get that sub nuke free of a BO power. excluding this point if a BoP slots a sub nuke and a VM they just ate their highest rank BO slot and have limited abilities in an already lower than average ability ship. the point here is if u were working faster than the BoP or had the slightest of teamwork that BoP's one trick pony would have been overcome, diminishing the BoP into a generic full power to weapons klingon in the weakest ship of the game.
every single PvP is a team vs team encounter so you can not approach PvP in terms of 1 v 1. Klingons PvP night and day and have tremendeous experiance knowing what works, what doesnt work, and what they're capable of. this is generally lacking on the federation side, for example i cant tell u how many fed ships run into pvp with abilities like the sensor confusers(one being fixed with a simple sci team that every kling equips, the other being fixed by retargeting) tractor beam repulsers, or torpedo spred. this poor ability set up is only coupled with the fact most Feds treat PvP as solo encounter, ignoring the need to support their allies and failing to focus fire or re-focus fire when said target pops a RSP. (just the other night i was amazed how every single kling suddenly switched target to the sci vessel shooting an extend shield at the current target, we all did it without having to say it and none of us were in a team, this just does not happen on the federation side)
lets not get started on federation weapon choices. there are things that work in PvE that dont carry over in PvP. slotting exotic weapons like plasma or slotting mines(really, try a turret it has way higher DPS if your skilling/gearing for that weapon type) is just a bad thing to do in pvp. realize each weapon has the same DPS but not the same skill to upgrade. the effects of phasers/disrupters are sadly among the king of all weapons and the easiet to upgrade. kling players know this and build all phaser or all disrupter ships and then skill toward that and then equip their ship with the consoles that further buff their weapons; sadly, this kind of thought process is not seen on the federation side.
in short: learn to play and/or enter in with premades
It comes down to who is organized better,not the gear.As it should be.The Klinks are better organized for pvp simply because they do it more often.Im still kicking it at general rank since i play to what the strength of my character is and try to stay away from what my weaknesses are.I will be doing federation next.So far nothing needs to be changed for ground Klingon PvP.Many K posters have already stated the space aspect quite well as it is.My Fed character will be mixing it up with PvP and PvE gameplay.My Klink is indeed specced for ground PvP and so will my fed.My third slot will be for my space config.After that then i will see where the issues are overall.
Universal slots so what. We lose at least one slot to your ships. Your ships also have more consoles.
Most Feds expect to pawn at pvp because they pawn npcs.
Unbalancing is caused by the majority of people lacking pure pvp skills and knowing how to skill up and outfit a ship to take advantages of what their ship offers. Quit trying to improve the attributes of the ship that are poor. Improve upon what is already good.
Most Feds lose because they have given up before they even enter the match. Just look at all the QQ.
There are some damn fine Fed teams out there that win. They just sit back and laugh at all the qq posts.
Does anyone not believe that if both sides had the same ships that nothing would change.
I hear most feds get waxed in ground combat too. Care to explain that? Cloak? BOP? Nope we have the exact same skills available and you feds probably have more ground skills trained that the KDF.
You have 90 percent of the players and 90 percent of the people the do things that cost you matches.
Pugs are pugs. Get into organized groups with comms and see the light.
I play both fed and klink. The comments about group skill are 100% correct. Right now the better group wins. If feds stay tight and maneuver as a unit it is very diffcult to take them. Those supieror hulls and shields are really difficult to crack unless you can get a ship isloated and focused on.
As a Klink player I love the resource map since the feds often break off and run willy nelly for control points. That is just asking to be a sitting duck as you will be focused and are alone. As a fed group you need to move in formation torwards the control points. That way when the klinks uncloak they are immediately underfire.
I do not hear a universal cry about BOPS. They are flexible but they are fragile for sure. You certainly could complain about some of the BO skills but that is for another tread. BTW my klink wouldn't be nearly as well equiped if it wasn't for having my fed toon pass scraps on. That says something about play balance when I have to use my fed toon and its access to pve to equip my klink toon. :eek:
Before i start, i have NOT played t5 PvP. Yet. My Fed is only commander4 and my Klink is only LTC1.
My experience of PvP so far....
When i hit about LT4 on my fed i started PvPing. I loved it, yes i got my TRIBBLE handed to me by every Klink i ran into, but i stuck at it and i learned. The turning point came when i was heading towards a cap point on the capture and hold map (alone, noobish i know) and BoP decloaked about 3km astern and opened up on me. I didnt panic, just put into practice what i learned in the last 30-40 games and killed him without breaking a sweat. Something clicked in my head that day.
It irritates me so much when i see all these "Fellow" Fed players on these board screaming nerf agaisnt the klinks.... i just dont get it. Sure kilnks play different, buts thats all. Different, not better. If i can catch a BoP with his battle cloak on CD he's dead. Yes a BoP played well is a tough fight, but, at the end of the day they are made of paper :P. If he catchs me in an equally unfavorable postion then im dead. Nature of the game.
I must have played over 200 pvp matches now. I dont do mission on my fed very much. I just pvp. In all that experience has taught me? There is no need to nerf klinks. there is nothing wrong with the games balance. There is however a MASSIVE difference in player skill.
As many have already stated on these boards the problem is simply lack of experince for most Feds. They PvE alot. Then jump into a PvP game expecting that they will pwn all before them like they do in Pve (lets be honest, PvE in this game is not srs bsns) then come here and QQ about how unfair the klinks are. It really is rather sad to see tbh.
I dont know and therefore cant comment on endgame PvP. But the lower brakets any Fed who calls nerf on the klinks just needs to practice more. They can be beaten. Trust me on this
I personally dont care about all of your comparisons to shield and hull HP's the fact is the PVP here blows it is broke beyond belief. I cant even tell you how many times I have been in a PVP with 5 tier 5 federation ships going against ONE (1) klingon ship no other help what so ever. We blasted that ship for 2 - 3 mins with there shields at most dropping down to 80% and we never even touched the hull and that ship alone mopped the floor with us. Their is no reason why one ship should blow away 5 ships its impossible. What ever information you have regarding the comparison of klingon and federation shields and hull strength is WRONG. The evidence speaks for itself I have seen it with my own eyes the klingons are way to powerful and they need to balance out this game entirely. I will admit leveling up the klingon takes forever and cryptic needs to fix this their is no reason my 2 month old klingon is still a Lieutenent LOL. And speaking of which I do the ground missions with him with just my standard issue disruptor and seem to have the upper hand against the federation and if that is not over powered I dont know what is then. Once the Federation gets its own PVP i seriously doubt 95% of the feds will come back to pvp against the klingons BECAUSE THE PVP IS BROKE. And good luck getting matches then if we are all gone doing our own thing.
I hear most feds get waxed in ground combat too. Care to explain that? Cloak? BOP? Nope we have the exact same skills available and you feds probably have more ground skills trained that the KDF.
You would be wrong. Ground combat is the great equalizer in the game. Its hilarious to see leet dood klingons, fresh from continuous space wins, get obliterated 40/4 on the ground. You want to hear real crying? Play ground.
Comments
You speak as if these klingons are someone else? the klingons are YOU , and by YOU refusing to lvl one to cap YOU are holding the game back......
I made my general to help with the Q's but when i get on my RA i have to wait 30 mins cuz you wont get off your REAR...............................................Admiral and make a Klingon.
Many of the top generals have done k vs k infact we did it to lvl fast early on . now we cant even get enogh players to fight the feds , how on earth do you except us to get enogh players to fight each other??????
MAKE A KLINGON , if you Really care about this game YOU will.
You know when you are right you are right I say they should tone down the amount of rewards the klingons get from pvp and force them to do PvE missions to get the bulk of their equipment and credits.....oh wait.
I dislike the Red UI and I always played the "side of Good", regardless how the balance going to work out. Nothing going to make me play something else than feds, so your critic pretty much went down the toilet.
PvE reward is a joke versus the PvP counterparts, any serious PvPer knows this. And I see no reason why Klingons would do PvE if they were given the option.
Um the Klingons are the good side....general worf begged the feds to join the fight to free the Gorn of the shapeshifters , insted of helping the empire and listening to former starfleet officer worf they declared war on the empire.....hmmm now why would the fedration not want to free a ppl of the alpha quad. of Undine? hmmmmm The fedration is controlled by evil shapeshifters.
This is all ingame text not some "story" im making up ethier.
The federation isn't the shapeshifters, and regardless how trouble starts within your forces, the federation, not the fake clones, but the federation stands for a lot of good. A mass of species where the primary mission is to explore can't be viewed as your typical evil.
On the other hand, Klingon favorite quote "It is a good day to die".
Fedration IS the shapeshifters , Why would the fedration not help free the Gorn of shapeshifters?
and explore huh? ya the borg explore then force a ppl to join them also.
Feel free to come to the Klingon side and check out those great PvP reward merchants anytime especially since we are missing Mk X shields/Deflectors/Engines.
So if you didnt get the hint the first time let me spell it out leave the Klingon faction alone,if it was that great being a Klingon side player im sure there would be more people there than there are now.
1. its not faster to equip a klingnon ship, its slower, coming from the rank up we have 0 of that PvP currancy and worse stock equipment than we've already earned. on average its taken me to sub rank 5 or 6 to be completly refit with the mark gear of my rank and thats dipping into the exchange for buying expensive things in terms of pvp points (engines, deflectors). at 30ish points a battle and a little over 100 just for a weapon, and then a new weapon for each slot...u get the point, your "math" is wrong. feds havve access to mission reward items higher than their rank so when they rank up they already fresh gear to equip, not to mention feds also have access to pvp gear the same as we do.
2. everything except shield systems are green, shields being blue. enjoy. im not even sure how a klingon can get blues or purples outside of exchange, how many blue mission rewards are there? tons.
3. i cant speak for everyone(well, no, i sorta can) but the PvP queis pretty bare when it comes to kvk, ive only done one so far which means 100% of my exp and badges are earned at the same rate as the feds im fighting(theres been less downtime getting a match than flying from system to system on fed.
4. klings have lower shield and hull than their fed counterparts and BoP ranks the absolute lowest.
5. most if not all klings go full weap power and then BO power or cloak for suriviability. im not sure what feds go but sci vessels might go full aux from time to time b/c it helps with their detection and powers, cruisers might go shields from time to time; those 2 classes depending on the player are lowering their DPS to fit their percieved role but pretty much all klings understand firepower>all . so with focus fire it might seem kllingons are stronger but its just tactics vs no tactics.
2. Same.
3. There aren't enough players for KvK and when there are it takes forever...not because it's overpowered and to hard to play, but simply because everyone is cloaked 90% of the time and trying to get the drop. It's waist of time.
4. K shields are a joke. Why do you think they cloak and run so much and fight so hard?
5. K isn;t as easy as anyone who hasn't played it thinks. T1-2 are slow grinding with little variety. Cloak loses value as you climb in rank. Even when we win 15/0, I and my team often are at 8% hull and 2% shields at the end of each exchange. We work in groups better...for the most part...than Feds do. When I come up against an equal fed group that knows how to play their class and ship as well as support each other and focus fire...the K team loses every time.
6. PvE dulls your PvP skills. It spoils you that you can;t kill a player like a NPC ship.
And its how klingons level... we don't go PvP only when we are bored or when we run out of patrols/missions and need points to level. We don't go there at the end of a rank... we are ALWAYS in PvP.
Yes; and many federation rewards are much much better than the generic green/blues from PvP vendors; if those vendors actually worked for all items that is... since there are some Mk II items listed as Lt Commander instead of Lt; that the Mk X shield/engines/deflector pvp rewards are innexistant; that the tier 4 items use the wrong medals; and so on...
1) Check the actual numbers..
2) what fast getaway? only 1 ship has battlecloak; it drops shields; and it has the least structure of all ships in the game. As for a fast getaway; ANYONE can do it... Evasive Manoeuver? All captains have it early; emergency power to engines? available through BO's for everyone... Engine batteries? Available to all once again... use those 3; and you have a getaway. It works better than battlecloaking.
Whats the reasoning there? The BOP is the one with your vision of the perfect escape plan; raptors and cruisers dont have it.
I sure hope you dont plan a carreer in programming or any other activity where logic is involved. It has nothing to do with being unbalanced. Most klingons want to fight feds; you know;... like in the show... Klingons don't like the civil war. The day devs will add a system of fleet/house wars; i'm sure plenty of klingon fleets will just battle each other for fun. But for day to day pvp; its 1) faster to get in a queue against feds; 2) more interesting.
As for your argument; you can say the opposite thing as well then; when FvF hits live servers; can we say Feds are too cowardly to fight klingons if they decide to fight each other? FvF just sounds wrong to many trekkies; as does house vs house during wartime.
If playing PvP more often than your opponent; getting more player experience about the game mechanics involved during PvP... the only nerf that would work is to have as many PVE options on the klingon side as there are in the Federation side: that way you'll have carebears and noobs on both sides.
Not because it is easier... a good fed team is harder to beat than klingons. But most are too clueless to even make the difference between jam sensors and cloak. Some come to PvP without any form of shield resists; or heals; or rsp... and if they have RSP; they dont even know how to restore it when it gets disabled.
Your interpretation is full of holes and misunderstanding about the game. Play a klingon to Tier 5 and you'll see.
The exchange is shared by both sides; prices are the same.
Not just that; but the game mechanics are on a different scale between pve and pvp. NPC don't deal nearly as much damage as a single player can throw at another. NPC's are following scripts; players will react to every one of your actions; and if they have more experience than you, they will anticipate, feint and trick you into situations where you'll lose.
you might as well complain that somebody who pvp's 6 hours per day gets 3 times as many medals as somebody who pvp's only 2 hours per day.
-ken
Free thought? no, the Federation has a dark sinister in the shadow organization, that will eliminate you before you can even think of going against them.
Its all a ruse to hide their sinister goals.
as for the Klingons, well, they don't hide, they just do the same things, more openly.
So the real gooood guys/gals are those rebellious types who seek change, who want something different, who in end will do the samething as the previous rulers, in a different way.
Your theory is flawed. Gearing up has no relevance.
The reason Klingons pvp better is because they pvp more in general. I won't dispute that having faster ques certainly helps with this but the bottom line is the average Klingon just pvps more and therefore becomes better at pvp.
The Feds tend to pvp less so tend to be worse at it. It is obvious when 4 good Fed players end up with that one random Fed that hardly pvps. It cripples there team.
Having played a T5 Klingon for some time I am now working on a Fed. It is far more challenging as a Fed because we always end up with at least one idiot Fed.
Feds are not better at space fights because they do stupid stuff like Full Impulse into a fight. Run off to spawn camp ALONE. Don't pay attention to there ground map and the list goes on and on.
You can throw out all of the game mechanics that people ***** about like Cloak, VM, and general BO slots. The better team wins more often then not in STO. In most cases that is the Klingons because they are just better at pvp in general.
When in my premade Fed groups we seldom lose. When in my premade Klingon groups we seldom lose. From my perspective the better team should win.
That is why I think STO is more balanced then most people think it is.
Vllad
Purge
Sorry but this is just wrong and ignorant. The better team always wins, Fed or Klingon.
While I don't disagree with the difference or that Klingons have distinct advantages. Pointing out some of them is irrelevant to this conversation. Feds have there own advantages as well but again that is irrelevant.
Your points would only be relevant if they lead to 100% victory rate to Klingons. Since it does not you points are superfluous.
You are also correct that a Fed player can pvp as much as a Klingon however as you are fully aware pure pvp does not make up the majority of the Fed team. It does make up 100% of the Klingon team. Statistically speaking the chances of the entire Fed team in any given match having the same amount of experience of a Klingon team would be small.
In STO the better team always wins. PVP exerience or not.
I do not agree with your assessment. I believe STO is more balanced then most people think. I would change some things with the Science skills but short of that I think STO is very balanced.
That is why the better team wins.
Having played many pvp MMO's in the past the best MMO's are the ones that come down to how good your team is. STO is right on track with that balance.
If you are not having success with STO PVP then it is more likely your failings are with your team mates, not the game itself.
Vllad
Purge
u forgot to add "Science Player Captain of BoP w/ universal BO slots, and Cloak"
key class in the mix is Science.
I also beg to differ about player skill/ exp countering Klingon's BoP. its ez to counter a BoP if they are captained by a Tact, or an Eng Player. Science on the other hand, the chances are less likely.
Like what? Seriously, I don't know. What is it that Feds exclusively have that is in the same ballpark as universal bo slots and cloaking device?
I just won't do PVP any more as Federation 2 against 10 is a joke in 1 match much less 4, maybe when Cryptic fixes the mess. I am hearing in test they are removing the damage boost Klingons have and making cloaking and de-cloaking have a 5 second weapons cool down, so I know they are workng on it.
the BoP is really just an answer to the fed's sci ship; without the BoP's universal BO slots klingons would have 0 chance to employ abilities like VM and sub nuke. and if u didnt know the BoP has the lowet hull, fewest weapon slots, and fewest BO powers at each tier. these are significant drawbacks. now back to the BoP vs sci ship. a sci ship can do all the things the typical BoP is set up for( aka Sub nuke then VM; and you might complain that a BoP has more firepower but as stated above it doesnt, just change your power settings{i know right? thats a thinker} and maybe rework your weapon config) except the chances a sci officer pilots a sci ship is greater than a sci officer flying a BoPso they get that sub nuke free of a BO power. excluding this point if a BoP slots a sub nuke and a VM they just ate their highest rank BO slot and have limited abilities in an already lower than average ability ship. the point here is if u were working faster than the BoP or had the slightest of teamwork that BoP's one trick pony would have been overcome, diminishing the BoP into a generic full power to weapons klingon in the weakest ship of the game.
every single PvP is a team vs team encounter so you can not approach PvP in terms of 1 v 1. Klingons PvP night and day and have tremendeous experiance knowing what works, what doesnt work, and what they're capable of. this is generally lacking on the federation side, for example i cant tell u how many fed ships run into pvp with abilities like the sensor confusers(one being fixed with a simple sci team that every kling equips, the other being fixed by retargeting) tractor beam repulsers, or torpedo spred. this poor ability set up is only coupled with the fact most Feds treat PvP as solo encounter, ignoring the need to support their allies and failing to focus fire or re-focus fire when said target pops a RSP. (just the other night i was amazed how every single kling suddenly switched target to the sci vessel shooting an extend shield at the current target, we all did it without having to say it and none of us were in a team, this just does not happen on the federation side)
lets not get started on federation weapon choices. there are things that work in PvE that dont carry over in PvP. slotting exotic weapons like plasma or slotting mines(really, try a turret it has way higher DPS if your skilling/gearing for that weapon type) is just a bad thing to do in pvp. realize each weapon has the same DPS but not the same skill to upgrade. the effects of phasers/disrupters are sadly among the king of all weapons and the easiet to upgrade. kling players know this and build all phaser or all disrupter ships and then skill toward that and then equip their ship with the consoles that further buff their weapons; sadly, this kind of thought process is not seen on the federation side.
in short: learn to play and/or enter in with premades
Universal slots so what. We lose at least one slot to your ships. Your ships also have more consoles.
Most Feds expect to pawn at pvp because they pawn npcs.
Unbalancing is caused by the majority of people lacking pure pvp skills and knowing how to skill up and outfit a ship to take advantages of what their ship offers. Quit trying to improve the attributes of the ship that are poor. Improve upon what is already good.
Most Feds lose because they have given up before they even enter the match. Just look at all the QQ.
There are some damn fine Fed teams out there that win. They just sit back and laugh at all the qq posts.
Does anyone not believe that if both sides had the same ships that nothing would change.
I hear most feds get waxed in ground combat too. Care to explain that? Cloak? BOP? Nope we have the exact same skills available and you feds probably have more ground skills trained that the KDF.
You have 90 percent of the players and 90 percent of the people the do things that cost you matches.
Pugs are pugs. Get into organized groups with comms and see the light.
As a Klink player I love the resource map since the feds often break off and run willy nelly for control points. That is just asking to be a sitting duck as you will be focused and are alone. As a fed group you need to move in formation torwards the control points. That way when the klinks uncloak they are immediately underfire.
I do not hear a universal cry about BOPS. They are flexible but they are fragile for sure. You certainly could complain about some of the BO skills but that is for another tread. BTW my klink wouldn't be nearly as well equiped if it wasn't for having my fed toon pass scraps on. That says something about play balance when I have to use my fed toon and its access to pve to equip my klink toon. :eek:
My experience of PvP so far....
When i hit about LT4 on my fed i started PvPing. I loved it, yes i got my TRIBBLE handed to me by every Klink i ran into, but i stuck at it and i learned. The turning point came when i was heading towards a cap point on the capture and hold map (alone, noobish i know) and BoP decloaked about 3km astern and opened up on me. I didnt panic, just put into practice what i learned in the last 30-40 games and killed him without breaking a sweat. Something clicked in my head that day.
It irritates me so much when i see all these "Fellow" Fed players on these board screaming nerf agaisnt the klinks.... i just dont get it. Sure kilnks play different, buts thats all. Different, not better. If i can catch a BoP with his battle cloak on CD he's dead. Yes a BoP played well is a tough fight, but, at the end of the day they are made of paper :P. If he catchs me in an equally unfavorable postion then im dead. Nature of the game.
I must have played over 200 pvp matches now. I dont do mission on my fed very much. I just pvp. In all that experience has taught me? There is no need to nerf klinks. there is nothing wrong with the games balance. There is however a MASSIVE difference in player skill.
As many have already stated on these boards the problem is simply lack of experince for most Feds. They PvE alot. Then jump into a PvP game expecting that they will pwn all before them like they do in Pve (lets be honest, PvE in this game is not srs bsns) then come here and QQ about how unfair the klinks are. It really is rather sad to see tbh.
I dont know and therefore cant comment on endgame PvP. But the lower brakets any Fed who calls nerf on the klinks just needs to practice more. They can be beaten. Trust me on this
You would be wrong. Ground combat is the great equalizer in the game. Its hilarious to see leet dood klingons, fresh from continuous space wins, get obliterated 40/4 on the ground. You want to hear real crying? Play ground.