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PvP is so fu...ed up!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Sorry for the topic title...
I haven't seen one improvement in PvP since the OB. You're focusing on new content too much! PvP is currently so unbalanced and crappy that, the only reason I can think of for that situation is that you Cryptic, have never played it on Live server, with other players. Just make yourself a Cp5 and join any pvp enGANKment, so you'll see.
Typical issues are (first two are major game breakers for me):
  1. FvK / 5 vs 5-10, where most Klinks are +1 to +9 and one lonely -1, and all feds are getting their asses kicked
  2. FvK / 1 vs 1 (listed), happening to be 5 vs 10 again
  3. Solar Wind is so heavy on GPU that it's unplayable (it always was)
  4. Campers should never ever get any rewards
  5. Allowed Rank range is too wide, that pt.1 happens almost always, make it +- 1
  6. more issues reported since OB, and never fixed - read forums.

Geez.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    1. I really haven't seen it that much. Yes it happens more often than one would like, but it is not a gamebreaker.

    2. No idea what you are talking about. Never seen this happen.

    3. Never happened to me. solar wind is my favorite to play in.

    4. And how do you propose that is solved? By hiring referees to watch the matches? I have never had any camping issues.

    5. +- 1 would mean an eternity waiting in queue. It is fine as is.

    6. Other than fine tuning and improving the queue, pvpis fine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ggsimmonds wrote: »
    1. I really haven't seen it that much. Yes it happens more often than one would like, but it is not a gamebreaker.

    2. No idea what you are talking about. Never seen this happen.

    3. Never happened to me. solar wind is my favorite to play in.

    4. And how do you propose that is solved? By hiring referees to watch the matches? I have never had any camping issues.

    5. +- 1 would mean an eternity waiting in queue. It is fine as is.

    6. Other than fine tuning and improving the queue, pvpis fine.

    You must be playing klink side.
    1. Happens to me 99% of time
    2. You look at the queue, there's a map with just one klink and no feds - click join, engage pops up right away, and you end up with 7 klinks on your TRIBBLE - always happens to me
    3. I've got HD 3870 512MB, and it's slow for me with no PP, DL, etc
    4. Make rewards to be dependent on the number of rounds fired or something, if they just camp and don't do a bloody think.
    5. That would also mean that nobody is playing PvP anymore, if it only was 500 players that want to play PvP, there must be enough to be in such a group. maybe +-1 is too small, but +-2 would be enough.
    6. So, how it comes that there's so much complaints about PvP, especially from fed players ?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Don't win very often as a Fed. Would love to see some real stats on faction win/loses to date, by rank.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ngaio wrote: »
    You must be playing klink side.
    1. Happens to me 99% of time
    2. You look at the queue, there's a map with just one klink and no feds - click join, engage pops up right away, and you end up with 7 klinks on your TRIBBLE - always happens to me
    3. I've got HD 3870 512MB, and it's slow for me with no PP, DL, etc
    4. Make rewards to be dependent on the number of rounds fired or something, if they just camp and don't do a bloody think.
    5. That would also mean that nobody is playing PvP anymore, if it only was 500 players that want to play PvP, there must be enough to be in such a group. maybe +-1 is too small, but +-2 would be enough.
    6. So, how it comes that there's so much complaints about PvP, especially from fed players ?

    I play strictly fed. Certainly pvp needs to be improved upon, I would not argue that.however it is not F'd up as you said.

    1. What is your current level? I'm guessing you are ltcmdr or there abouts? My experience is that in the higher levels the numbers are more balanced. Lower to midlevels favor the Klingon side.

    2. Okay, I thought you were referring to the pvp report from the actual arena. Ideally you would hope that other players have the decency to wait, but since that is too much to ask, I agree that it needs to be fixed.

    3. Curious, as I have never experienced those issues. No idea why you are though.

    4. I thought rewards were dependent on actual performance. If this is not the case, then it should be. But I am relatively sure it is.

    5. I still think the level parameters are fine as is. Think of how the poor Klingons feel, lol Basically the only way they can level up is through pvp, whereas many fed players can wait until they reach grade 7 or so before going into pvp.

    6. People will always complain. No matter what.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Walshicus wrote:
    Don't win very often as a Fed. Would love to see some real stats on faction win/loses to date, by rank.

    As a fed player I probably hover around 50% win percentage. which is...perfect. Then again I always do 3 things. Wait until I achieve grade 6 before venturing into pvp, having different setups for pve and pvp, and going in with a coordinated team.

    A good team of fed players are nigh unbeatable, unless the Klingons cheese the CC skills. A few nights ago I rolled through about 10 straight wins with my team of 2 cruisers, 2 science vessels, and 1 escort. We stayed together and worked as a unit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Regarding participation-based rewards...

    Currently there is very little correlation. At the moment, 'participation' means damage dealt and hull repair. It does not take into account buffs/debuffs on target, AOE, or ally shield repair.

    Also, currently everyone is rewarded for participating in PVP no matter what their 'participation'. All rewards are fairly even, with only a slight bonus to the 'participation' leader.

    There might be absolutely no reward for 0 damage and 0 healing (I have not tested this), but it is -very- easy to go above 0. Once above 0 -- even if only by a single point -- you are granted a reward at the end of match.

    If rewards were purely participation-based -- including buffs/debuffs, AOE, and shield repair -- with a bonus to the winner, PVP would be more competitive and we wouldn't have to worry about suiciders or AFKers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ggsimmonds wrote: »
    1. What is your current level? I'm guessing you are ltcmdr or there abouts? My experience is that in the higher levels the numbers are more balanced. Lower to midlevels favor the Klingon side.

    Captain 6.

    I haven't played PvP much, since OB, mostly because of balancing issues like these. I must be really unlucky to have them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You're correct -- while there have been a few good "Klingon fixes" since release, the only actual "PvP fix" I know of is the one where you used to have to wait 60 seconds after the end of a match before it would let you leave...

    I can't believe that Assimilated Cruiser still had that bad spot on both sides of the bridge where people and boxes turn invisible. As far as I can tell, everyone has that problem. Wouldn't have killed em to fix it or just replace it with a new map.

    And that's small potatoes compared to the queue/"5v1"/spawn camping problem, which I suspect is where we lost most of this game's PvPers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ngaio wrote: »
    Captain 6.

    I haven't played PvP much, since OB, mostly because of balancing issues like these. I must be really unlucky to have them.

    In my experience, captain was the best pvp experience. I haven't did it as much as RA, because the lack of Klingons and queue times scare me.

    Best advice I could give, form a team and go into pvp together with a plan. You can't just go into it thesame way you approach pve and expect to win. Not saying you are, just from I have seen, that is the reason behind many peoples complaints. With the exception of course, to the overpowered CC skills.


    But most of your issues are queue based, and that is relatively easy to fix.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Aside for queing and campersI can't support your other points. Level spread doesn't affect PvP a bit for me. On the ground I was 1st last night on my science officer who just hit Commander 1 9/10 times. In space it doesn't affect me either. The damage bonus is miserable across 10 levels. We all use the same equipment during those 10 levels, so I don't see a problem there. If SW is not tolerated by your PC, que in planetoid ?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    horrible topic, nothing but qq about getting his rear end handed to'em.


    by the way where does the "K" at the end of the slur Klink come from? I recall Klingon...I don't see any K at the center of Klingon, so where does this K come into play? Fed...Federation....makes sense...Klink...Klingon...wtf?:confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Lately, I have seen nothing but Klingon victory's...I don't mean just victory. I am talking about NO KILLS on the Federation side. So I asked my self, why.

    I think it has a lot to do with cannons being allowed on all ships for the Klingon's. They have all the power of the larger ships, and the fire power of an escort. I am maxed out on all Ship equipment yet I cannot do ANY damage to their shields, but my shields are gone in a matter of seconds...and it is because of DUAL CANNONS UP FRONT ON A BATTLESHIP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    aesman wrote:
    Lately, I have seen nothing but Klingon victory's...I don't mean just victory. I am talking about NO KILLS on the Federation side. So I asked my self, why.

    I think it has a lot to do with cannons being allowed on all ships for the Klingon's. They have all the power of the larger ships, and the fire power of an escort. I am maxed out on all Ship equipment yet I cannot do ANY damage to their shields, but my shields are gone in a matter of seconds...and it is because of DUAL CANNONS UP FRONT ON A BATTLESHIP.

    Honestly I have Fed RA Engie and leveld him in PvP ALONE and it has nothing to do with one side having more "power" or klingons getting cannons. The truth is that in order for Feds to win they have to be SMART. This is just not L2P because you can be a fine player on your own but if you don't support who you need to support and at the right time you will lose in any fight. Klingons advantage is that they really don't need to be group organized to be moderately successful because they get to attack on their own terms most of the time. However, against good groups Klingons only chance is to be organized.

    I led, and was led, in fed groups into dozens of consecutive victories against Klingons in all tiers. I only Puged I was not in a fleet, nor did I use vent. At most, on occasion, I found a group that worked well together, but it never lasted that long. The thing is if you play wrong as a fed, if you do silly things (and one idiot on your team can do this to you) your going to lose and your going to lose bad. Most battles have a tipping point and if you cross it too early its all over for you.

    There are Fed groups that are all but unstoppable out there, believe me. There is more skill to this game than people give it credit (save for SNB spammers and their 32 seconds stuns).

    It's is harder for feds in the aspect that they usually need to be more organized to win. But once organized they have just as much chance, if not more, than the Klingons do. Feds just have to REALY play as a team. And the facts are most of them don't.

    The game is not unbalanced. It has bugs and a few powers (SNB in particular) that are over the top.That is it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ngaio wrote: »
    I haven't seen one improvement in PvP since the OB. You're focusing on new content too much! PvP is currently so unbalanced and crappy that, the only reason I can think of for that situation is that you Cryptic, have never played it on Live server, with other players. Just make yourself a Cp5 and join any pvp enGANKment, so you'll see.
    Typical TRIBBLE u p s are (first two are major game breakers for me):
    1. FvK / 5 vs 5-10, where most Klinks are +1 to +9 and one lonely -1, and all feds are getting their asses kicked
    2. FvK / 1 vs 1 (listed), happening to be 5 vs 10 again
    3. Solar Wind is so heavy on GPU that it's unplayable (it always was)
    4. Campers should never ever get any rewards
    5. Allowed Rank range is too wide, that pt.1 happens almost always, make it +- 1
    6. more issues reported since OB, and never fixed - read forums.

    Geez.

    This guy is so out to lunch I don't even know were to start.
    FIRST - YES! lets make every PVP match have ONLY players 1-2 levels away. THEN don't let the game start until there are 5 ready per side. Great Idea !
    Result = 3 hour Q times and massive uproar on the forums about ridiculously slow Q items and slow leveling. Well Thought out.

    SECOND - Yes remove any visually impelling pvp maps - In fact lets just make every map 100% dead open space to reward those cheap buggers who are trying to play a new MMO on an old crappy computer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    If you would, support my ground PvP issues thread here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Warbirdd wrote: »
    SECOND - Yes remove any visually impelling pvp maps - In fact lets just make every map 100% dead open space to reward those cheap buggers who are trying to play a new MMO on an old crappy computer.

    Well, my specs are well beyond RECOMMENDED specs, and this particular map gives me only 20fps, without any special effects enabled, so I have right to complain. It's well above 35-60 fps on the rest of the maps, and anywhere else in the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Maybe it's just me, but the klingons winning more makes a bit of sense if you consider that it's the only way to level a klingon... so logically the majority of them are gonna be more experienced at pvp, on the fed side pvp is something you can do, but don't have to, so learning how to pvp well isn't very important overall, it's a must for a klingon. The imbalance is less to do with ships and more to do with the amount of time each side has to spend on pvp to advance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    phlyer wrote: »
    Maybe it's just me, but the klingons winning more makes a bit of sense if you consider that it's the only way to level a klingon... so logically the majority of them are gonna be more experienced at pvp, on the fed side pvp is something you can do, but don't have to, so learning how to pvp well isn't very important overall, it's a must for a klingon. The imbalance is less to do with ships and more to do with the amount of time each side has to spend on pvp to advance.

    Well said !

    I played on both sides, and I now only PvP Klingon because on average you'll see more group invites and basic tactics than Fed side... I'll say my Klingon ship dies quicker than my fed ship under combined fire by the way, however Klingons allies will sometimes HEAL and will focuss on your attacker next - amazing overbalanced gameplay actual teamwork provides (which some players appear to believe means we have magic unkillable ships)!

    My PC spec is over 5 years old and I have yet to run a map I lag on - however perhaps an ability to turn more effects off may be an option to support those folks with PCs that (for whatever reason) don't run so well - but please don't just go with empty space - having objects folks hide behind adds to PvP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The bottomline is that PvP is unbalanced. You look at the kill/death ratio at the end of each match and it is clear as day. You can't have everybody on oneside scoring 15 kills each while the other side is barely getting 2 kills each and say it is balanced. Why is it so? could be many reasons, buit all I know is that I want Cryptic to fix it.

    Call me selfish, but I want to have matches where it is tight and close. I want to have long drawn out battles. I want to leave the arenas saying to myself, wow that was fun. I liked the way this or that happened. I enjoy the desperate struggle between two sides where no one knows how it will end until we see it all through.

    I find PvP on the Fed side futile and on the Klingon side boring.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The bottomline is that PvP is unbalanced. You look at the kill/death ratio at the end of each match and it is clear as day. You can't have everybody on oneside scoring 15 kills each while the other side is barely getting 2 kills each and say it is balanced. Why is it so? could be many reasons, buit all I know is that I want Cryptic to fix it.

    Call me selfish, but I want to have matches where it is tight and close. I want to have long drawn out battles. I want to leave the arenas saying to myself, wow that was fun. I liked the way this or that happened. I enjoy the desperate struggle between two sides where no one knows how it will end until we see it all through.

    I find PvP on the Fed side futile and on the Klingon side boring.

    Dude. . I have a RA Fed and in the right group I have cleaned house against Klingons in multiple tiers. I am not really that good. It just isn't as hard as you seem to think it is. You just have to have some good tactics and have everyone on your team know what they are doing.

    You can't nerf for skill. Really the only thing Klingons have is cloak and in T5 the universal slots are little OP for science officers, but SNB+VM combo will get nerfed and its not like Feds can't do the same thing... I will give you that it is harder to organize Feds. That I will give you, but that's not about balance but about people.

    There are skilled fleets of Feds that are just laughing right now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    THe klingons in general are easy kills, the only advantage most of them have is probally if i am doing a mission in borg space and one or 2 of them uncloak while I am fighting a borg cube, I just turn my attention to them and they scurry off like mice when they get in trouble. Rinse and repeat. Don't really see where its unbalanced. Situations are crude as I have discribed but all in all seems fair enough.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    mythran wrote:
    Dude. . I have a RA Fed and in the right group I have cleaned house against Klingons in multiple tiers. I am not really that good. It just isn't as hard as you seem to think it is. You just have to have some good tactics and have everyone on your team know what they are doing.

    You can't nerf for skill. Really the only thing Klingons have is cloak and in T5 the universal slots are little OP for science officers, but SNB+VM combo will get nerfed and its not like Feds can't do the same thing... I will give you that it is harder to organize Feds. That I will give you, but that's not about balance but about people.

    There are skilled fleets of Feds that are just laughing right now.

    First off I never said anything about nerf so you can retract that one. In fact, I know better to put up suggestions of suppositions because your troll-mongers will just use it to spread your filth. Thing is I have been pvp since OB. I recognize some of you from ingame, others, who are you people?

    Mythran, consider yourself lucky, because I cant get my guild to go pvp to save the life of me. I am stuck in the mindless zerg-land where yes, it is that bad. The average kill ratio in Cracked planet is 75 kill versus 2 kills. In Conquer and Hold it is 15 to 1. This isn't balanced, its a turkey shoot and I am sure it is no fun for the klingons as it is no fun for the feds. Tough close matches are fun, this is boring.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    First off I never said anything about nerf so you can retract that one. In fact, I know better to put up suggestions of suppositions because your troll-mongers will just use it to spread your filth. Thing is I have been pvp since OB. I recognize some of you from ingame, others, who are you people?

    Mythran, consider yourself lucky, because I cant get my guild to go pvp to save the life of me. I am stuck in the mindless zerg-land where yes, it is that bad. The average kill ratio in Cracked planet is 75 kill versus 2 kills. In Conquer and Hold it is 15 to 1. This isn't balanced, its a turkey shoot and I am sure it is no fun for the klingons as it is no fun for the feds. Tough close matches are fun, this is boring.

    What do you want to be balanced ? The only way to make everyone "equal" and "balanced" is to have on attack for everyone, one shield and one weapon. If you remove the SNB+VM, people will stack FBP+RSP and you will cry for the nerf of that ? This ****ing whining about "balance" has to stop. Every PvP match there is crier, be it ground or space. I hit him to hard, the holds are too strong, cannons are OP, cloak needs nerf. It is pathetic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Thing is I have been pvp since OB. I recognize some of you from ingame, others, who are you people?
    I don't PUG anymore. Since Beta, I prefer not to PVP without my Fleet or a premade (or semi-premade) with people I know. So, nowadays, I would happily not PVP if it meant avoiding a PUG.

    That said, because scheduling can be problematic with my Fleet members, we often end up in 3-Fleet/2-PUG groups. (More often 4-Fleet/1-PUG.) Obviously much more disparity when doing large maps (Capture-and-Hold).

    I also do Kerrat whenever I have the daily, with or without Fleet (or other friends). But there is usually very little PVP there, at least during the times when I'm online.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The_Stig wrote: »
    What do you want to be balanced ? The only way to make everyone "equal" and "balanced" is to have on attack for everyone, one shield and one weapon. If you remove the SNB+VM, people will stack FBP+RSP and you will cry for the nerf of that ? This ****ing whining about "balance" has to stop. Every PvP match there is crier, be it ground or space. I hit him to hard, the holds are too strong, cannons are OP, cloak needs nerf. It is pathetic.

    Wow amazing. Take away the QQ and see what happens. Yeah I got ideas, but I am not telling it to you, because you're not even listening. All you want is a target to attack and put down. The devs know what the problems are and they know what they have to do to fix it. I'm just adding my voice so they know that the problem is still a problem. I also reject your "there is only one way" position to obtain balance.

    No, I am not going to cry for the nerf and no, you can not call me a cryer. Why do you have this need to call people a crier so badly that even when someone says nothing about the nerf, you have to fabricate this hypothetical world where perhaps he might say the word nerf, just so you can call them a crier?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sorry I skipped the last 2 pages, just wanted to link this one in, that clearly shows why the PvP-population gets the short end of the stick:

    http://www.startrekonline.com/survey_one_results

    The results of the survey recently clearly show that the vast majority of the players give a ratsass for PvP and that's why cryptic won't do anything too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I don't PUG anymore. Since Beta, I prefer not to PVP without my Fleet or a premade (or semi-premade) with people I know. So, nowadays, I would happily not PVP if it meant avoiding a PUG.

    That said, because scheduling can be problematic with my Fleet members, we often end up in 3-Fleet/2-PUG groups. (More often 4-Fleet/1-PUG.) Obviously much more disparity when doing large maps (Capture-and-Hold).

    I also do Kerrat whenever I have the daily, with or without Fleet (or other friends). But there is usually very little PVP there, at least during the times when I'm online.

    I'll be sure to say hi the next time I see you. I'm on all the time. It does sound like the game is completely different outside of the PUG enviroment. Something I have not have the privalege to see and perhaps where the perception diconnect lies in regards to pvp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well, I've been pvping fed side for afew hours at captain. I've yet to see a fed victory. I'm getting insta popped quite a lot in a sci ship. Like quicker that I can press sci team I die.

    Feds used to have an advantage with sci and tank, while klinks got better cloak, turn rate and dps. Now sci has been nerfed feds have sucky, slow, visible ships with no way to compete with klingons. The score board all night confirms this.

    And don't bother with your 'but klingons are better players.' That's bull and you know it. Pvp has like t1 again, with klingons always winning.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ikenstein wrote:
    Well, I've been pvping fed side for afew hours at captain. I've yet to see a fed victory. I'm getting insta popped quite a lot in a sci ship. Like quicker that I can press sci team I die.

    Feds used to have an advantage with sci and tank, while klinks got better cloak, turn rate and dps. Now sci has been nerfed feds have sucky, slow, visible ships with no way to compete with klingons. The score board all night confirms this.

    And don't bother with your 'but klingons are better players.' That's bull and you know it. Pvp has like t1 again, with klingons always winning.
    Are you using any of the following:

    1) RSP
    2) Dampening Field
    3) Engineering Team
    4) Aux to Structural
    5) Hazard Emitters

    Is your team using any of the following on you:

    1) Extend Shields
    2) Dampening Field
    3) Engineering Team
    4) Hazard Emitters
    5) Science Team
    6) Transfer Shield Strength


    If the answer is no, then you or your team is doing something wrong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I still think the best way to solve these disparities is to improve queue match-making based on participation, where participation also includes buffs/debuffs and AOE.

    This would even out the disparity in win/loss experiences by more accurately matching players of relative 'skill' with each other.

    It would also require separating team queues from individual (PUG) queues.
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