A lot of people have been asking "How will FvF kill the Klingon faction?" and apparently can honestly not understand how this would happen. I thought I'd take the time to explain how/why.
Let me use an analogy from another game most of you will be familiar with. One major complaint that you hear on the forums from Fed PvPers is about cloaking: the Klingons have it, and the Feds do not. Now, cloaking, has undeniable tactical advantages: surprise, choosing encounters, initial positional advantage, etc. The hope is that this advantage is balanced out by other factors (Fed's bigger hulls, Sci. ships). In short, Klingons ships (for the most part) are like Rogues.
Now suppose you play a Shaman. Like most Shamans you hate Rogues. If you were given an option to do battlegrounds against groups with NO ROGUES, with no down-side, would you not take it? "Gee, I can do battlegrounds mostly against Rogues, or against no rogues whatsoever... I wonder which choice I'll make..."
Now, in a normal world like WoW, this would be bad, but not game-breaking. Now imagine if Rogues could ONLY level through PvP, and now everyone has the choice to NOT PvP against them...
So there you have it. If you still cannot see how FvF has the potential to kill off KDF, then, well, what more can I say. Now, of course, these are all likelihoods and possibilities. Is it *possible* that KDF would survive FvF? Sure, it's possible; jut not likely unless Cryptic makes some other rather drastic changes to the game.
Klingons refuse to fight each other in KvK because it's so much more fun to pick on players who do not have cloak. The advantage of cloak has spoiled them and they do not like having to go up against it. Not all Klingons are this way mind you, but enough that the ones with the balls to fight will have 40 min. queues and will probably just roll a Fed to get their PvP fix.
I for one will never queue up against the Klingons after hearing NUMEROUS times that they refuse to queue up for capture and hold maps because they cannot sit cloaked for 20 minutes while Feds sit there waiting. They also can't spawn camp and win within 5 minutes, because the match is actually based on teamwork and strategy instead of stomping someone 5v1.
About a month of only getting 5v1 or 5v2 pvp on cracked planet has left me bitter. I'm not the only one. Klingons are digging their own grave by conducting themselves the way they do because once FvF comes out Feds will never be forced to play against the flying double standards known as Klingons.
"Hey fedtards!! im gunna cloak and hide until i get moar team you can wait kk??? btw next round we rushing you 5v1 kekeke"
Klingons refuse to fight each other in KvK because it's so much more fun to pick on players who do not have cloak. The advantage of cloak has spoiled them and they do not like having to go up against it. Not all Klingons are this way mind you, but enough that the ones with the balls to fight will have 40 min. queues and will probably just roll a Fed to get their PvP fix.
I for one will never queue up against the Klingons after hearing NUMEROUS times that they refuse to queue up for capture and hold maps because they cannot sit cloaked for 20 minutes while Feds sit there waiting. They also can't spawn camp and win within 5 minutes, because the match is actually based on teamwork and strategy instead of stomping someone 5v1.
About a month of only getting 5v1 or 5v2 pvp on cracked planet has left me bitter. I'm not the only one. Klingons are digging their own grave by conducting themselves the way they do because once FvF comes out Feds will never be forced to play against the flying double standards known as Klingons.
"Hey fedtards!! im gunna cloak and hide until i get moar team you can wait kk??? btw next round we rushing you 5v1 kekeke"
I'm Klingon. KvK queues never pop so I don't bother. I pretty much only queue for Capture and Hold. I have also never done the 'Hey fedtards' manuever.
I also question your sources for 'hearing NUMEROUS times' that Klingons require 20 minute sessions fo cloak for enjoyment.
imo, those Fed players who knows how to pvp, actually knows how to pvp, instead of bicker about this and that towards 1 other faction, will probably stick with FvK. I get sick of shooting the mirror NPCs around the DS9 area...FvF would be boring, most likely in the beginning there will be cruisers, that will get rolled by the Science ships, and just like presently, Science ships will remain supreme, w/ the BO skills of the players choice (even after the patch) pvp in the game is about CC, no CC, expect to die.
Klingons refuse to fight each other in KvK because it's so much more fun to pick on players who do not have cloak. The advantage of cloak has spoiled them and they do not like having to go up against it.
Aside from Capture missions which have an alternate win option, my own (admitedly limited) KvK experience in the other space missions turned out to be "basic boring TRIBBLE". Two teams floating about waiting to see some glimmer that the other team is out there? Bleh. I hate KvK because of that. Capture isn't too bad, but I don't want it to be the end-all of space KvK.
From a Fed viewpoint, I'm not personally all that happy about FvF. It is not supported by the universe lore (unless we've all become Mirror agents). It is also not supported by the game lore. I feel that too much of it is driven by the "we don't want to fight cloakers" mentality, which I think is a shame. I love fighting PVP on both sides of the fence because each one requires a completely different tactical approach. Most players can't grasp the concept of "If at first you don't succeed - try try again" and come up with new tactics and instead whine that the same ol' same ol' isn't equally effective.
I personally hope FvF isn't going to be as harmful as some are saying, but right now I've got my doubts.
I'm Klingon. KvK queues never pop so I don't bother. I pretty much only queue for Capture and Hold. I have also never done the 'Hey fedtards' manuever.
I also question your sources for 'hearing NUMEROUS times' that Klingons require 20 minute sessions fo cloak for enjoyment.
Thank you for your time.
It's taken 20 minutes for the klingons to get 5 players, so they just sit there cloaked. It happens. Maybe not to you. But it happens. You're also in the minority if you don't say "fedtards".
imo, those Fed players who knows how to pvp, actually knows how to pvp, instead of bicker about this and that towards 1 other faction, will probably stick with FvK. I get sick of shooting the mirror NPCs around the DS9 area...FvF would be boring, most likely in the beginning there will be cruisers, that will get rolled by the Science ships, and just like presently, Science ships will remain supreme, w/ the BO skills of the players choice (even after the patch) pvp in the game is about CC, no CC, expect to die.
Ya you're totally right. We should just continue to queue up against players who sit there cloaked, de-cloak + SNB + VM our entire team and then the first fed dies without any fed firing a shot. Because that is so much fun.
imo, those Fed players who knows how to pvp, actually knows how to pvp, instead of bicker about this and that towards 1 other faction, will probably stick with FvK. I get sick of shooting the mirror NPCs around the DS9 area...FvF would be boring, most likely in the beginning there will be cruisers, that will get rolled by the Science ships, and just like presently, Science ships will remain supreme, w/ the BO skills of the players choice (even after the patch) pvp in the game is about CC, no CC, expect to die.
Ya you're totally right. We should just continue to queue up against players who sit there cloaked, de-cloak + SNB + VM our entire team and then the first fed dies without any fed firing a shot. Because that is so much fun.
rick, I recommend you stick with FvF if FvK isn't fun. there is no reason anybody should be expected to play something that's not fun, or at least rewarding in some way.
maybe there are other fed players who think FvK is fun -- just let them play FvK and don't worry about it.
Factions are supposed to dislike each other. I've never been on a server where the Allies didn't hate the Horde, Horde didn't hate the Alliance, Order didn't hate Chaos, Chaos didn't hate Order, and everybody didn't hate Rogues. It is part of the game immersion.
I remember how Horde used to hate Pallies, and Alliance hated Shamans. However, imagine if Blizzard had coped out and made Horde v. Horde BGs. I remember how Chaos hated Bright Wizards, but imagine Chaos v. Chaos.
For the most part, PvP should always be against the opposing faction. KvK is a reasonable execption for two reasons: 1) Klingons have no PvE, and 2) It makes sense from a storytelling/immersion PoV.
FvF has none of these reasons going for it. In fact it has a huge reason going against it: it will further damage the KDF population.
Klingons refuse to fight each other in KvK because it's so much more fun to pick on players who do not have cloak. The advantage of cloak has spoiled them and they do not like having to go up against it. Not all Klingons are this way mind you, but enough that the ones with the balls to fight will have 40 min. queues and will probably just roll a Fed to get their PvP fix.
I for one will never queue up against the Klingons after hearing NUMEROUS times that they refuse to queue up for capture and hold maps because they cannot sit cloaked for 20 minutes while Feds sit there waiting. They also can't spawn camp and win within 5 minutes, because the match is actually based on teamwork and strategy instead of stomping someone 5v1.
About a month of only getting 5v1 or 5v2 pvp on cracked planet has left me bitter. I'm not the only one. Klingons are digging their own grave by conducting themselves the way they do because once FvF comes out Feds will never be forced to play against the flying double standards known as Klingons.
"Hey fedtards!! im gunna cloak and hide until i get moar team you can wait kk??? btw next round we rushing you 5v1 kekeke"
Maybe you should try playing STO. I am playing it and have 3 Klings I play pretty regular like and NEVER see a case where we are sitting in a map waiting and waiting and waiting. I am so sick of this lame excuse. The only reason you want FvF is so you do not have to fight cloaked players, which is a shame. I know there are SOME Feds that now how to play and do so very well as I get owned as often as I win... in all tiers.
If anything needs to be looked into its the morons running into a match and just going "here kill me so this ends quick so I can get more points faster" TRIBBLE, that ruins PVP and gameplay for me more than anything right now in the lower tiers.
There are too many blanket statements here. "All feds to this", "All Klingons do that."
There is truth to what EVERYBODY has said. Everybody has had a different perspective and a different experience.
The truth is that this can very well help the game. For those people who are not enjoying pvp as it is,..and want to do some FvF, they can. I feel that those becoming frustrated and who won't even queue up any more for pvp,...now just may do exactly that.
That keeps players in the game.. and that is good for everybody.
From playing other games of this nature and the ability to engage other Feds will open this game wide open and draw in a much greater crowd then they have now. I believe allot of feds are getting tired of Klingons not wanting to engage in an honorable fashion or waiting like a rat to attack in a group against a lone fed ship. This will stop that rediculous and unsportsman like play in its tracks. I personally am looking forward to the Fed vs Fed, Its getting old to only engage the empire when its 3 or 4 on 1. Rarely I get lucky and get to engage 2 which is too greater odds in my favor as far as they are concerned. Speaking for a few Feds who I have became friends with. Its going to be refreshing. I can even see leagues being formed. Fleet vs Fleet. Let the Klingon play their back stabbing honorless playing style. We will have great battles to test our tactics, wits and loadouts against each other, something the empire cant comprehend.
I play a fed and love pvp. I would rather kill klingons but I also welcome the fvf. Main reason is I am getting sick and tired of all these bop's running around with science made ship with the op fbp destroying fed cruisers and science ships. It isnt a l2p or qq more. The science skills are op atm and if you say other wise your only fooling yourself. It just gives the game a breath of fresh air for some people. Will I stop pvping against klingons hell no. Seeing how on average I wait 30+ minutes on a queue, I can do some fvf while waiting and have some fun. Fbp will be used in fvf but atleast it will be more even because 2/3 ships use beams and I can live with that. Just my 2 cents on this subject.
Ur kinding right
1.Fed suck they win 1 out of every five pvp
2.KvK we play KvK just to have a real game
3.if fed stop playing KvF PvP we will just Play KvK i believe Klingon would discover this to be a better option in the future
4.Only the good player will fight KvF, FvFwould allow the sucky feds to keep on sucking
5.This would work out great because we will weed out the weak and have so real fun
Thank you no dis to feds there may be some pertty good ones and if they had other good player they could be better FED are not crappy just out classed.
A lot of people have been asking "How will FvF kill the Klingon faction?" and apparently can honestly not understand how this would happen. I thought I'd take the time to explain how/why.
Let me use an analogy from another game most of you will be familiar with. One major complaint that you hear on the forums from Fed PvPers is about cloaking: the Klingons have it, and the Feds do not. Now, cloaking, has undeniable tactical advantages: surprise, choosing encounters, initial positional advantage, etc. The hope is that this advantage is balanced out by other factors (Fed's bigger hulls, Sci. ships). In short, Klingons ships (for the most part) are like Rogues.
Now suppose you play a Shaman. Like most Shamans you hate Rogues. If you were given an option to do battlegrounds against groups with NO ROGUES, with no down-side, would you not take it? "Gee, I can do battlegrounds mostly against Rogues, or against no rogues whatsoever... I wonder which choice I'll make..."
Now, in a normal world like WoW, this would be bad, but not game-breaking. Now imagine if Rogues could ONLY level through PvP, and now everyone has the choice to NOT PvP against them...
So there you have it. If you still cannot see how FvF has the potential to kill off KDF, then, well, what more can I say. Now, of course, these are all likelihoods and possibilities. Is it *possible* that KDF would survive FvF? Sure, it's possible; jut not likely unless Cryptic makes some other rather drastic changes to the game.
Ur kinding right
1.Fed suck they win 1 out of evey five pvp
2.KvK we play KvK just to have a real game
3.if fed stop playinf KvF PvP we will just Play KvK i believe Klingon would discover this to be a better option in future
4.Only the good player will even fight us the one that suck will stay sucking and pla FvF because to unset with getting handed a very uneven loss.
5.This would work out great because we will weed out the weak and have so real fun
Thank you no dis to feds thiers some pertty good ones if they had other good player they could be better FED are not crappy just out classed.
Huked on foniks wurked fer mi
This is a bunch of broad generalizations written in even worse grammar.
9 times out of 10 when i am not in my escort but running the cruiser, if 2 empire engage me and things start looking bad for them, they run. They hit there cloak and scurry off like afraid mice. This is very common to allot of Feds and I am sure they can relate to this. This is enough reason to want actual tactical playing FvF action so the just can get their rewards in a nice battle.
There are a variety of reasons that FvF is a great idea.
1) Que times will be shorter: This means more practice for PvP. It is hard to get this practice, when you have 2+ hour waits a battle.
2) Balanced fights: Square off against similar ship types and classes to see how effective your build is, or to refine it by seeing what the other Federation players are using that works well.
3) Mindset: I think it is safe to say that most Federation players prefer capture and hold to the "cracked planetoid" kind of PvP map that has no objective other than kill. This means more capture and hold.. YAY.
4) No run and cloak: People get tired of that Klingon running away every single time they are going to lose and cloaking.... only to come back with 4 of his buddies and jump you. Now you can see them coming and going.
5) Less "Feddie" talk: I can't get enough of this garbage. Now we can learn from each other and not deal with ( well, at a lesser degree, anyway ) the cross faction garbage talk. Overall, I feel it will be a friendlier environment.
6) FAIRNESS: They have KvK,...so we get FvF. That is fair. End of story.
There are a variety of reasons that FvF is a great idea.
1) Que times will be shorter: This means more practice for PvP. It is hard to get this practice, when you have 2+ hour waits a battle.
2) Balanced fights: Square off against similar ship types and classes to see how effective your build is, or to refine it by seeing what the other Federation players are using that works well.
3) Mindset: I think it is safe to say that most Federation players prefer capture and hold to the "cracked planetoid" kind of PvP map that has no objective other than kill. This means more capture and hold.. YAY.
4) No run and cloak: People get tired of that Klingon running away every single time they are going to lose and cloaking.... only to come back with 4 of his buddies and jump you. Now you can see them coming and going.
5) Less "Feddie" talk: I can't get enough of this garbage. Now we can learn from each other and not deal with ( well, at a lesser degree, anyway ) the cross faction garbage talk. Overall, I feel it will be a friendlier environment.
6) FAIRNESS: They have KvK,...so we get FvF. That is fair. End of story.
You pointed out why FvF needs to be made possible as soon as possible.
For those who worry about canon:
7) There have always been Combat Simulations in the Federation. We've seen quite a few in the series, most of the time they went wrong when the AI run wild or infiltrators took command.
You pointed out why FvF needs to be made possible as soon as possible.
For those who worry about canon:
7) There have always been Combat Simulations in the Federation. We've seen quite a few in the series, most of the time they went wrong when the AI run wild or infiltrators took command.
I thought about that as well, but did not bring it up, because I felt it didn't really relate to the typical game arguments. Still, good to mention.
I have nothing against the idea of FvF, I feel for the FED-players sitting in endless queues.
I also think that still people will queue up for FvK in the beginning, but got the bad feeling that it will end up like this:
A FvK game pops, 5 Klingons get in, 1 FED (all other FEDs already sit in FvF games which pop faster, or do PvE). Spawncampslaughter. FED warps out, another one gets in, boring and useless game that lasts forever and is no fun for anyone.
Same faction games will always pop faster. Why? Because it's much easier to fill a game where you can put either person on either side, than to fill one where you need a minimum number of a different playerbase.
And the last thing is of course that even less people will have the urge to roll a Klingon, if they now can do EVERYTHING as a FED and nearly nothing as a Klingon player. Even a lot of Klingons will switch to FvF because it's easier and because of the above mentioned queue-problems.
Another advantage to FVF is there is no balance issue. If I say Klings are ridiculously OP at this time, I will have 200 guys to lecture me on the opposite point of view.
Good ! On FVF if I lose, I will know why. And I willbe able to adapt, because I will have the exact same possibilities as my adversaries*.
(I don't say enemies it's a game, just try to remember, for the dude who talked about the hate of the horde and other stupidities. Hate in a game .... Ho come on ! :rolleyes: Get a life)
I agree most feds will probaly play FvF so they don't have to deal with all the misbalanced crud klings got in their favor. Any kling who believes otherwise is delusional. Whenever I play my kling it is downright easy mode and takes a very orginized fed team just to have a CHANCE to win against a kling pug pick-up group.
I agree most feds will probaly play FvF so they don't have to deal with all the misbalanced crud klings got in their favor. Any kling who believes otherwise is delusional. Whenever I play my kling it is downright easy mode and takes a very orginized fed team just to have a CHANCE to win against a kling pug pick-up group.
You will be awfully surprised with FvF, when some Klingons hardcore-PvPers roll over you just in their FED-alt-ships.
I rolled 2 FED alts after my BG5 Klingon and steamroll Klingons quite easily. They die fast like flies and got several disadvantages concerning skills (the BO exchange is dead, you can't find very rare BOs for you, all tactical and attack pattern skills can't be pimped, one less BO slot for BoPs), and equipment (the episodic mission drops are awesome. My tier2 paratrinic shield on my escort shields more than my t5 purple honor mark shield on my bop for example).
I play both. I love both. I have had many fun KvK house battles, including pre-called melee only.
The big problems with pvp. Faction imbalance, number 1. Its a brutal grindfest to level up a Klingon, you don't have anything but a lame nebula to fall back on when you need a breather from pvp. This reason alone is why most klingons don't make it to T3.
Capture and Hold. its the only space battleground that runs. Why, Cloak. I wont queue KvK arena space because if one team is imbalanced that guy can just hide and moan that he cant beat 4 vs 1. If I were on the short end of that stick i would suicide into them just to end the match faster but most players are not so smart.
Same thing can happen with the Feds. Klingons shorthanded, hide and hope for reinforcements. Cloaking is a must for canon, its the battleground mechanics that need tweeking.
Capture and Hold is too wowish for me. Why not make battlegrounds where one side has to attack a starbase or defend a convoy of cargo ships that are going to cross the battleground map.
Lastly, we need a real neutral zone. There is a war right, why is there no front lines? Within the neutral zone sector when a fed ship and a klingon ship make contact (.25 LY) they can engage eachother in a micro instance(Sub nuke I win beam has to be nerfed for this) and every location is a persistent battleground with objectives and defenses for both sides. As one side conquer's the neutral zone locations the remaining locations get stronger and stronger to aide the losing side.
Oh...not that the defeated player loses anything but very rare loot should have a small chance to drop off players kills.
There is another important reason why adding FVF might be important...
Right now, once you hit endgame Fed... there is little to do and no PVP. I enjoy PVP in this game and to be honest, hitting RA1 was the worst thing that could have happened to me in terms of my enjoyiment of this game...
I get new ships and new BOs and I am very excited to use them... I try and queue up for PVP only to find:
FED 110
KLINGON 0
On all the PVP queues. PVP is nonexistent at RA level. You have to wait 45 minutes to get one game. If they don't fix that soon, I will likely unsub.
There is another important reason why adding FVF might be important...
Right now, once you hit endgame Fed... there is little to do and no PVP. I enjoy PVP in this game and to be honest, hitting RA1 was the worst thing that could have happened to me in terms of my enjoyiment of this game...
I get new ships and new BOs and I am very excited to use them... I try and queue up for PVP only to find:
FED 110
KLINGON 0
On all the PVP queues. PVP is nonexistent at RA level. You have to wait 45 minutes to get one game. If they don't fix that soon, I will likely unsub.
Thus, FvF would be a fantastic solution for that.
Just my 2 cents...
Then you need to stop calling this game Star Trek , and just name it Fedration......NO ONE should not have both sides to cap by now....EVERYONE should have rolled both sides......GET OFF YOUR REAR , Adimral.....help save the game by making a Klingon. if we ALLL had both to cap I wouldnt have to wait on my RA for 30 mins a game also , I did my part Im a General I help YOUR lazyness get games , do the same for me.
The most Important part to all this tho is they said you get f vs f......its mega wrong ....its bad for the game to not have a real enemey to fight but you cry and they jump , but they NEVER said you can do your dailies without F vs K , they just said your getting F vs F....im sure thats why "all~of~a~sudden" you want to pvp is for the epics....
In short make a Klingon and help save the game as a whole.
And the last thing is of course that even less people will have the urge to roll a Klingon, if they now can do EVERYTHING as a FED and nearly nothing as a Klingon player. Even a lot of Klingons will switch to FvF because it's easier and because of the above mentioned queue-problems.
I play both, but I'll probably just drop my Klingon. The only way to level is PvP, so without the Feds queueing the game is pretty pointless.
I expect there will still be ground queues, and ground KvK is the same as FvK, but I enjoy space battles too, and I can't imagine there will be any of that. (KvK space battles tend to be exceedingly dull since neither side can find the other to fight. There are work-arounds, but the easiest work around is just to not queue for KvK space.)
The thing that I don't get is that there are "Federation players" and they all seem to think that there is such a thing as "Klingon players" -- there's no penalty for playing both, and every "Klingon player" needs to play Federation as well. In truth there are "Federation players" and "STO players", and it often seems that the people who only play Federation really hate the people who play the whole game.
If the "Federation players" would also roll a Klingon, they'd have plenty of PvP. That's why I rolled mine; I don't care that much about the different abilities, and would like to see some science powers nerfed a bit since they do synergize way too well with cloaking, but I like PvP and for PvP to work there need to be 2 sides.
But I really don't think most Federation players will queue for FvK at all if given a choice. I already don't queue for the space arenas no matter what side I'm playing, because I feel that when the only objective is to kill other players, stealth is too much of an advantage. I already make about 2/3 of my queues ground because the only imbalance there comes if the queuing system screws one side.
*Many* players are much more obsessed with cloaking and BoPs than me, and I just can't imagine those players ever again queueing for FvK. So if it's going to get even more difficult to level my Klingon, why should I continue with the character?
If you really want endgame Federation PvP, you should be pushing for a PvE leveling path for Klingons. The early tiers are already awful to level through because the Federation doesn't queue at all in tier1, and still mostly PvEs through tier 2. If reaching endgame were as quick and easy for Klingons, you'd have a lot more of them to fight.
Comments
I for one will never queue up against the Klingons after hearing NUMEROUS times that they refuse to queue up for capture and hold maps because they cannot sit cloaked for 20 minutes while Feds sit there waiting. They also can't spawn camp and win within 5 minutes, because the match is actually based on teamwork and strategy instead of stomping someone 5v1.
About a month of only getting 5v1 or 5v2 pvp on cracked planet has left me bitter. I'm not the only one. Klingons are digging their own grave by conducting themselves the way they do because once FvF comes out Feds will never be forced to play against the flying double standards known as Klingons.
"Hey fedtards!! im gunna cloak and hide until i get moar team you can wait kk??? btw next round we rushing you 5v1 kekeke"
I'm Klingon. KvK queues never pop so I don't bother. I pretty much only queue for Capture and Hold. I have also never done the 'Hey fedtards' manuever.
I also question your sources for 'hearing NUMEROUS times' that Klingons require 20 minute sessions fo cloak for enjoyment.
Thank you for your time.
I can bet I'm not the only one. PVP against Kling has become too complicated and not fun for average players.
No one likes to lose all the time, if I like to play chess, I'm not going to play Grandmasters all the time or I'll become desperate.
Let's say Klings won, now give us a fun PVP to play. Maybe Fed/Fed is what casual players need.
See what I mean Cryptic? You give this game FvF and that will totally kill off the KDF. What little there is of it, admittedly.
From a Fed viewpoint, I'm not personally all that happy about FvF. It is not supported by the universe lore (unless we've all become Mirror agents). It is also not supported by the game lore. I feel that too much of it is driven by the "we don't want to fight cloakers" mentality, which I think is a shame. I love fighting PVP on both sides of the fence because each one requires a completely different tactical approach. Most players can't grasp the concept of "If at first you don't succeed - try try again" and come up with new tactics and instead whine that the same ol' same ol' isn't equally effective.
I personally hope FvF isn't going to be as harmful as some are saying, but right now I've got my doubts.
It's taken 20 minutes for the klingons to get 5 players, so they just sit there cloaked. It happens. Maybe not to you. But it happens. You're also in the minority if you don't say "fedtards".
Ya you're totally right. We should just continue to queue up against players who sit there cloaked, de-cloak + SNB + VM our entire team and then the first fed dies without any fed firing a shot. Because that is so much fun.
rick, I recommend you stick with FvF if FvK isn't fun. there is no reason anybody should be expected to play something that's not fun, or at least rewarding in some way.
maybe there are other fed players who think FvK is fun -- just let them play FvK and don't worry about it.
-ken
I remember how Horde used to hate Pallies, and Alliance hated Shamans. However, imagine if Blizzard had coped out and made Horde v. Horde BGs. I remember how Chaos hated Bright Wizards, but imagine Chaos v. Chaos.
For the most part, PvP should always be against the opposing faction. KvK is a reasonable execption for two reasons: 1) Klingons have no PvE, and 2) It makes sense from a storytelling/immersion PoV.
FvF has none of these reasons going for it. In fact it has a huge reason going against it: it will further damage the KDF population.
Maybe you should try playing STO. I am playing it and have 3 Klings I play pretty regular like and NEVER see a case where we are sitting in a map waiting and waiting and waiting. I am so sick of this lame excuse. The only reason you want FvF is so you do not have to fight cloaked players, which is a shame. I know there are SOME Feds that now how to play and do so very well as I get owned as often as I win... in all tiers.
If anything needs to be looked into its the morons running into a match and just going "here kill me so this ends quick so I can get more points faster" TRIBBLE, that ruins PVP and gameplay for me more than anything right now in the lower tiers.
There is truth to what EVERYBODY has said. Everybody has had a different perspective and a different experience.
The truth is that this can very well help the game. For those people who are not enjoying pvp as it is,..and want to do some FvF, they can. I feel that those becoming frustrated and who won't even queue up any more for pvp,...now just may do exactly that.
That keeps players in the game.. and that is good for everybody.
1.Fed suck they win 1 out of every five pvp
2.KvK we play KvK just to have a real game
3.if fed stop playing KvF PvP we will just Play KvK i believe Klingon would discover this to be a better option in the future
4.Only the good player will fight KvF, FvFwould allow the sucky feds to keep on sucking
5.This would work out great because we will weed out the weak and have so real fun
Thank you no dis to feds there may be some pertty good ones and if they had other good player they could be better FED are not crappy just out classed.
Hopefully, you are science officer in a science ship - if not your in for one hell of a suprise.
Huked on foniks wurked fer mi
This is a bunch of broad generalizations written in even worse grammar.
This post has my seal of approval.
1) Que times will be shorter: This means more practice for PvP. It is hard to get this practice, when you have 2+ hour waits a battle.
2) Balanced fights: Square off against similar ship types and classes to see how effective your build is, or to refine it by seeing what the other Federation players are using that works well.
3) Mindset: I think it is safe to say that most Federation players prefer capture and hold to the "cracked planetoid" kind of PvP map that has no objective other than kill. This means more capture and hold.. YAY.
4) No run and cloak: People get tired of that Klingon running away every single time they are going to lose and cloaking.... only to come back with 4 of his buddies and jump you. Now you can see them coming and going.
5) Less "Feddie" talk: I can't get enough of this garbage. Now we can learn from each other and not deal with ( well, at a lesser degree, anyway ) the cross faction garbage talk. Overall, I feel it will be a friendlier environment.
6) FAIRNESS: They have KvK,...so we get FvF. That is fair. End of story.
You pointed out why FvF needs to be made possible as soon as possible.
For those who worry about canon:
7) There have always been Combat Simulations in the Federation. We've seen quite a few in the series, most of the time they went wrong when the AI run wild or infiltrators took command.
I thought about that as well, but did not bring it up, because I felt it didn't really relate to the typical game arguments. Still, good to mention.
I also think that still people will queue up for FvK in the beginning, but got the bad feeling that it will end up like this:
A FvK game pops, 5 Klingons get in, 1 FED (all other FEDs already sit in FvF games which pop faster, or do PvE). Spawncampslaughter. FED warps out, another one gets in, boring and useless game that lasts forever and is no fun for anyone.
Same faction games will always pop faster. Why? Because it's much easier to fill a game where you can put either person on either side, than to fill one where you need a minimum number of a different playerbase.
And the last thing is of course that even less people will have the urge to roll a Klingon, if they now can do EVERYTHING as a FED and nearly nothing as a Klingon player. Even a lot of Klingons will switch to FvF because it's easier and because of the above mentioned queue-problems.
Good ! On FVF if I lose, I will know why. And I willbe able to adapt, because I will have the exact same possibilities as my adversaries*.
(I don't say enemies it's a game, just try to remember, for the dude who talked about the hate of the horde and other stupidities. Hate in a game .... Ho come on ! :rolleyes: Get a life)
You will be awfully surprised with FvF, when some Klingons hardcore-PvPers roll over you just in their FED-alt-ships.
I rolled 2 FED alts after my BG5 Klingon and steamroll Klingons quite easily. They die fast like flies and got several disadvantages concerning skills (the BO exchange is dead, you can't find very rare BOs for you, all tactical and attack pattern skills can't be pimped, one less BO slot for BoPs), and equipment (the episodic mission drops are awesome. My tier2 paratrinic shield on my escort shields more than my t5 purple honor mark shield on my bop for example).
The big problems with pvp. Faction imbalance, number 1. Its a brutal grindfest to level up a Klingon, you don't have anything but a lame nebula to fall back on when you need a breather from pvp. This reason alone is why most klingons don't make it to T3.
Capture and Hold. its the only space battleground that runs. Why, Cloak. I wont queue KvK arena space because if one team is imbalanced that guy can just hide and moan that he cant beat 4 vs 1. If I were on the short end of that stick i would suicide into them just to end the match faster but most players are not so smart.
Same thing can happen with the Feds. Klingons shorthanded, hide and hope for reinforcements. Cloaking is a must for canon, its the battleground mechanics that need tweeking.
Capture and Hold is too wowish for me. Why not make battlegrounds where one side has to attack a starbase or defend a convoy of cargo ships that are going to cross the battleground map.
Lastly, we need a real neutral zone. There is a war right, why is there no front lines? Within the neutral zone sector when a fed ship and a klingon ship make contact (.25 LY) they can engage eachother in a micro instance(Sub nuke I win beam has to be nerfed for this) and every location is a persistent battleground with objectives and defenses for both sides. As one side conquer's the neutral zone locations the remaining locations get stronger and stronger to aide the losing side.
Oh...not that the defeated player loses anything but very rare loot should have a small chance to drop off players kills.
Right now, once you hit endgame Fed... there is little to do and no PVP. I enjoy PVP in this game and to be honest, hitting RA1 was the worst thing that could have happened to me in terms of my enjoyiment of this game...
I get new ships and new BOs and I am very excited to use them... I try and queue up for PVP only to find:
FED 110
KLINGON 0
On all the PVP queues. PVP is nonexistent at RA level. You have to wait 45 minutes to get one game. If they don't fix that soon, I will likely unsub.
Thus, FvF would be a fantastic solution for that.
Just my 2 cents...
Then you need to stop calling this game Star Trek , and just name it Fedration......NO ONE should not have both sides to cap by now....EVERYONE should have rolled both sides......GET OFF YOUR REAR , Adimral.....help save the game by making a Klingon. if we ALLL had both to cap I wouldnt have to wait on my RA for 30 mins a game also , I did my part Im a General I help YOUR lazyness get games , do the same for me.
The most Important part to all this tho is they said you get f vs f......its mega wrong ....its bad for the game to not have a real enemey to fight but you cry and they jump , but they NEVER said you can do your dailies without F vs K , they just said your getting F vs F....im sure thats why "all~of~a~sudden" you want to pvp is for the epics....
In short make a Klingon and help save the game as a whole.
I expect there will still be ground queues, and ground KvK is the same as FvK, but I enjoy space battles too, and I can't imagine there will be any of that. (KvK space battles tend to be exceedingly dull since neither side can find the other to fight. There are work-arounds, but the easiest work around is just to not queue for KvK space.)
The thing that I don't get is that there are "Federation players" and they all seem to think that there is such a thing as "Klingon players" -- there's no penalty for playing both, and every "Klingon player" needs to play Federation as well. In truth there are "Federation players" and "STO players", and it often seems that the people who only play Federation really hate the people who play the whole game.
If the "Federation players" would also roll a Klingon, they'd have plenty of PvP. That's why I rolled mine; I don't care that much about the different abilities, and would like to see some science powers nerfed a bit since they do synergize way too well with cloaking, but I like PvP and for PvP to work there need to be 2 sides.
But I really don't think most Federation players will queue for FvK at all if given a choice. I already don't queue for the space arenas no matter what side I'm playing, because I feel that when the only objective is to kill other players, stealth is too much of an advantage. I already make about 2/3 of my queues ground because the only imbalance there comes if the queuing system screws one side.
*Many* players are much more obsessed with cloaking and BoPs than me, and I just can't imagine those players ever again queueing for FvK. So if it's going to get even more difficult to level my Klingon, why should I continue with the character?
If you really want endgame Federation PvP, you should be pushing for a PvE leveling path for Klingons. The early tiers are already awful to level through because the Federation doesn't queue at all in tier1, and still mostly PvEs through tier 2. If reaching endgame were as quick and easy for Klingons, you'd have a lot more of them to fight.