I am extremely frustrated with how broken space PvP is. Here are my critiques:
1. SnB + VM. Many have said this before, I'm just echoing the sentiment...nerf the heck out of these in pvp. Follow blizzards model with WoW if you need an example. Crowd control use to have the same mechanics in both pvp and pve until they got their act together and went "oh wow, we need to change this".
2. Klingon cloak. This is arguably the most broken part about space pvp in paritcular. There is no counter to it and furthermore it has no limits. Also, klinks can use it to escape combat and save their butts. You're going to sit here and tell me this is "working as intended"....:rolleyes:
3. I've read that PvP queues are going to "fixed" soon. I hope this means that I won't warp into a battle already in progress and be surrounded by five ships in the process of blowing up a teammate right next to me?
Queue's should have a timer to join the match AND a timer to actually begin so that those that hesitate to join the queue start the battle at roughly the same time as those who join instantly. WoW did this as well, so please learn from their example.
4. I unfortunately made the mistake of picking an assault cruiser to bring into pvp matches. You gotta do someting about the turn rate because even though I have a Mk X covariant shield, an engineer resistance console, and several defensive cooldowns it takes about 3-4 seconds to punch through my shields and armor.
I'd highly suggest throwing us cruisers a bone here unless the idea of bringing only science/escorts into pvp is "working as intended" as well.
1) VM is fine now apart from the immunity does not work. SNB will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
VM should be completelly change to randomly affect 1 Subsystem of a ship...Engines OR Shields, OR Weapons, OR BO Abilities etc etc for a maximum of 10 seconds....its cool down should be Higher as well to limit its use. Make the choice Strategic one not one that you can spam over and over.
SNB effects should be kept at 3 seconds no more
2) There are several counters to cloak. L2P
Yes this I agree with, Cloak is fine, I play Fed, but I think Cloak works as it is supposed to.
4) L2P
Nothing to L2P here really, shields and Hull go down within 5 seconds in the game it is simply too fast to kill a StarShip...
I would like Star Ship engagements and battles not fantasy Characters dressed up as Starships.
Shields do not go down that fast if you stop the ship(s) that are taking them down and/or use some defense skills. Or in other words.. L2P.
Oh and 3 seconds for SNB? Are you mad? Way to kill a skill stone dead. It would be totally useless at 3 seconds.
VM is fine as is it. It just needs the immunity to actually work and for it not to be stackable.
I love the mentality of people that play this game. Any other game people would take the time to practice, learn it and become a decent player. STO its like "ok I cant win and keep dieing, the entire game needs to be changed to suit my lazy, awful playstyle because I suck" attitude. So pathetic.
Oh and 3 seconds for SNB? Are you mad? Way to kill a skill stone dead. It would be totally useless at 3 seconds.
VM is fine as is it. It just needs the immunity to actually work and for it not to be stackable.
I love the mentality of people that play this game. Any other game people would take the time to practice, learn it and become a decent player. STO its like "ok I cant win and keep dieing, the entire game needs to be changed to suit my lazy, awful playstyle because I suck" attitude. So pathetic.
Maybe time to throw away the efficient "slug" engines and try to fly faster (if you didnt already), maybe time to not have 25 base setting in engines/aux. That will boost your surviabilty via defence rating. Tweaking BO setups works mostly also.
There is very few borked abilties, which will be fixed soon. Overall i feell the pvp is balanced, if the pvp scenario starts with even numbers.
1) VM is fine now apart from the immunity does not work. SNB will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
2) There are several counters to cloak. L2P
3) who knows...
4) L2P
1) I agree.
2) Like what? Ranges are short and arena space is big. Cloak is infinite. The greatest problem is that Feds have no reasonable way of finding a cloaked kling ship in all the space provided in an arena zone. I want cat and mouse, not sit and wait.
3) the queue system is BY FAR my #1 complaint with STO. It MUST be fixed to start allowing for some semblance of balance in the PvP aspect of the game.
4) I think so far I agree... L2P or re-roll tactical/escort if you don't understand the strengths of cruiser.
2) Like what? Ranges are short and arena space is big. Cloak is infinite. The greatest problem is that Feds have no reasonable way of finding a cloaked kling ship in all the space provided in an arena zone. I want cat and mouse, not sit and wait.
3) the queue system is BY FAR my #1 complaint with STO. It MUST be fixed to start allowing for some semblance of balance in the PvP aspect of the game.
4) I think so far I agree... L2P or re-roll tactical/escort if you don't understand the strengths of cruiser.
2) You have cat and mouse now. You just can't be bothered learning to play cat. Sit and wait is why you aren't finding anyone. And no I don't have time to teach you how to search by grid and do a true 'sub' hunt ..watch the history channel or something.
3) Should be fixed to remove all queues you aren't opting in for so you don't get double counted.
:cool:
You cant actualy find many cloaked ships, because the limitations of Z axis (you scan like sphere). High Aux sure helps, but its mostly noticable only on sci ships. With my science captain in escort and max sensor arrays, i can see cloaked shield with sensor scan on about 7km max, which is usualy too late anyway. But it helps with hunting down flying battlecloaking bops...
So really, its not THAT EASY to spot a klingon with clue...not many fly in middle of fedball cloaked...
The only "easy" way to spot klingons is to fly a sci ship with my aux.
Shields do not go down that fast if you stop the ship(s) that are taking them down and/or use some defense skills. Or in other words.. L2P.
Oh and 3 seconds for SNB? Are you mad? Way to kill a skill stone dead. It would be totally useless at 3 seconds.
VM is fine as is it. It just needs the immunity to actually work and for it not to be stackable.
I love the mentality of people that play this game. Any other game people would take the time to practice, learn it and become a decent player. STO its like "ok I cant win and keep dieing, the entire game needs to be changed to suit my lazy, awful playstyle because I suck" attitude. So pathetic.
Shields DO go down really quick. Most of my play in PVP is spamming abilities to rise shields :rolleyes:
Cruiser are supposed to have some passive tanking abilities.$
I think the overall fire power in the game is too high compared to passive defense. Turns the game into some kind of space invaders instead of something more tactical.
And I agree Subleonic is cheated. Such powerful ability should have at least a counter mesure.
Use subleonic on an attacked ship gave a freekill, that's unfair.
Cloaking is supposed to give less resistant ships a possibility to avoid destruction. Thing is I don't feel Klings ships using it are less resistant than Feds.
I'd like to see stats about Win/loss in PVP. I'm pretty sure Feds lose 75%. And I feel it's not only about players skills.
Depends, i still think, that if we would filter out the obvious (ab)uses of certain abilties, the result would still shown that the average klingon is better than the average fed..thus on average the klingons are more skilled. Of course the larger the statistical sample, the greater possibility of some unpredictable result..like horrible klingons and very skilled feds...
But you may argue it as much as you want, but the average fed, who was leveling via pve mainly, is less skilled in pvp as average klingon, who was leveling mainly via pvp. Now we can argue, that most pvp matches arent balanced, and the klingons wont improve with turkey shotting. But overall their hmmmm, lets call it tactical awareness, is better.
Depends, i still think, that if we would filter out the obvious (ab)uses of certain abilties, the result would still shown that the average klingon is better than the average fed..thus on average the klingons are more skilled. Of course the larger the statistical sample, the greater possibility of some unpredictable result..like horrible klingons and very skilled feds...
But you may argue it as much as you want, but the average fed, who was leveling via pve mainly, is less skilled in pvp as average klingon, who was leveling mainly via pvp. Now we can argue, that most pvp matches arent balanced, and the klingons wont improve with turkey shotting. But overall their hmmmm, lets call it tactical awareness, is better.
IF that were true, then the "more skilled" Klingon surely doesn't NEED uber stealth? I mean, if the player skills are that much better, then surely he could get the same results by not using ONE particular ability; Cloak.
1) VM is fine now apart from the immunity does not work. SNB will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
2) There are several counters to cloak. L2P
3) who knows...
4) L2P
Great argument there, I LOVE the way you discuss things in detail and show facts to prove your points. Solid rebuttal, you leave no way for anyone to prove you wrong.
2) Like what? Ranges are short and arena space is big. Cloak is infinite. The greatest problem is that Feds have no reasonable way of finding a cloaked kling ship in all the space provided in an arena zone. I want cat and mouse, not sit and wait.
3) the queue system is BY FAR my #1 complaint with STO. It MUST be fixed to start allowing for some semblance of balance in the PvP aspect of the game.
4) I think so far I agree... L2P or re-roll tactical/escort if you don't understand the strengths of cruiser.
2) I agree, I play a Sci captain in a Sci ship and passive cloak detection does not exist in this game. The ONLY cloak detection is the Sensor Scan ability of Science captains. that works for 15 seconds out of 90. Any BO ability is only useful AFTER you are attacked by the Klingons. So, to throw their own words back at the L2P 'ers.... L2P cloak detection.
3) Agreed, the queue system shows me two important things: this game is still in Beta testing, as I think GUILD WARS had this "issue" solved before it released; and Cryptic has neither the staff nor the inclination to do much for PvP beyond a few instances and the "queue system". You know, actually calling it a system is insulting to every programmer that has every tried to build one. I apologize to all those programmers. (that Don't work for Cryptic)
4) I don't play a cruiser, but to me it seems that it's main advantage is to present one shield side to the enemy for the entire time it takes a BOP to blast it (the cruiser) to smithereens.
Great argument there, I LOVE the way you discuss things in detail and show facts to prove your points. Solid rebuttal, you leave no way for anyone to prove you wrong.
/sarcasm off
oh, are you a Klingon player?
You say it in a tone and grammer that suggests I give a TRIBBLE? And what Dalnar said.
The people that PvP regular know what is imba in STO and what isnt. We get random QQ threads like this one pop up now and again clearly by people that all is left for them to do is L2P. Everyone else is getting along just dandy.
recording something so SIMPLE as number of matches won and number of matches lost, by whom.
that is QUITE within the realm of database programming.
so, ummm, what was it you said? oh,
Go back to school.
Ok lets say you save 1000 matches, now tell me, how you will clear the data of playerskill, which is an upredictable variable, so you can get objective results on what is, and what isnt overpowered. Because if you dont filter the skill out, the "skilled" will always outpeforms the noobs, so nerf the skilled ?
So please tell us, how to filter out 10000 individual playerskill variables out of 1000 matches, and im sure you will get a nobel prize for it.
The people that PvP regular know what is imba in STO and what isnt. We get random QQ threads like this one pop up now and again clearly by people that all is left for them to do is L2P. Everyone else is getting along just dandy.
Surely you could share some of this immense L2P wisdom that you have gained?
Ok lets say you save 1000 matches, now tell me, how you will clear the data of playerskill, which is an upredictable variable, so you can get objective results on what is, and what isnt overpowered. Because if you dont filter the skill out, the "skilled" will always outpeforms the noobs, so nerf the skilled ?
So please tell us, how to filter out 10000 individual playerskill variables out of 1000 matches, and im sure you will get a nobel prize for it.
Since we are talking about a fictional 1000 matches here, let's just postulate that out of those 1000 matches, 800 of them were won by one team, and further that Subnucleonic Beam just happened to be used between 5 and 10 seconds before 10000 of the kills.
Would that seem to indicate something?
Oh, and yes, I agree with you that player skill is an unpredictable variable. So it cannot be measured. So it is not recorded. I'm sorry, i must have missed it, What is your point again?
Since we are talking about a fictional 1000 matches here, let's just postulate that out of those 1000 matches, 800 of them were won by one team, and further that Subnucleonic Beam just happened to be used between 5 and 10 seconds before 10000 of the kills.
Huh ? SNB has nothing to do with pvp balance as both sides have equal access to it, that doesnt mean its not overpowerd, but it has nothing to do with balance. Dont mess apples with pears. Im asking you, how you would filter out 10000 personal player-skills out of 1000 recorded matches, to compare the data.
I am extremely frustrated with how broken space PvP is. Here are my critiques:
1. SnB + VM. Many have said this before, I'm just echoing the sentiment...nerf the heck out of these in pvp. Follow blizzards model with WoW if you need an example. Crowd control use to have the same mechanics in both pvp and pve until they got their act together and went "oh wow, we need to change this".
2. Klingon cloak. This is arguably the most broken part about space pvp in paritcular. There is no counter to it and furthermore it has no limits. Also, klinks can use it to escape combat and save their butts. You're going to sit here and tell me this is "working as intended"....:rolleyes:
3. I've read that PvP queues are going to "fixed" soon. I hope this means that I won't warp into a battle already in progress and be surrounded by five ships in the process of blowing up a teammate right next to me?
Queue's should have a timer to join the match AND a timer to actually begin so that those that hesitate to join the queue start the battle at roughly the same time as those who join instantly. WoW did this as well, so please learn from their example.
4. I unfortunately made the mistake of picking an assault cruiser to bring into pvp matches. You gotta do someting about the turn rate because even though I have a Mk X covariant shield, an engineer resistance console, and several defensive cooldowns it takes about 3-4 seconds to punch through my shields and armor..
I agree, and I am a Science Captain. I do not want an "I Win" button. As such, I refuse to use VM. Sadly, I feel I must use SnB BEFORE it gets used on ME. These 2 abilities ALONE make such a shambles of what could be a great starship combat simulator. Shields, power, weapons, gear, BO abilities, none of that matters. SnB, VM = 99% chance of a kill.
2) I know. cloak detection is 15 seconds out of 90. period. but that is Cyptic's version of "balance" ...I guess.
4) but you're supposed to be the tank...5 seconds? really? ummm, OUCH! Where o' where is the BALANCE?
firepower too high your kidding right. I have at best 2 seconds to get to a cruiser's hull before he starts his RSPs and I can't touch him. Unless like most feds he doesn't stop shooting his beams at me when I glow blue. Seriously firepower is fine get multiple RSPs like every other cruiser and you will live. Otherwise do what the good fed teams do, extends shields to the victim and focus fire on the guy doing the damage. That will keep me under 200k damage easily. if you just sit there doing passive heals like emergency to shields your dead in 5 seconds easy.
Huh ? SNB has nothing to do with pvp balance as both sides have equal access to it, that doesnt mean its not overpowerd, but it has nothing to do with balance. Dont mess apples with pears. Im asking you, how you would filter out 10000 personal player-skills out of 1000 recorded matches, to compare the data.
So to you, an overpowered ability has nothing to do with balance. Oh. Interesting.
I answered your question. I see that you missed the answer. Player skill cannot be measured. Thus you cannot "filter out" what you cannot measure.
Oh, and yes, I agree with you that player skill is an unpredictable variable. So it cannot be measured. So it is not recorded. I'm sorry, i must have missed it, What is your point again?
So to you, an overpowered ability has nothing to do with balance. Oh. Interesting.
I answered your question. I see that you missed the answer. Player skill cannot be measured. Thus you cannot "filter out" what you cannot measure.
Doesn't matter, in the sample sizes you're talking about player skill evens out to the point where it becomes statistically insignificant. The bell curve of Klingon ability may be a few microns to the 'win' side of the Federation, but to suggest that over 1000 matches it will affect the results in any meaningful way shows a woeful lack of understanding of statistics - and indeed human behaviour.
My toons name is Outcast, i am a subnuc/vm'er (took 2wks therapy to say that) if you see me on the t5 roster know that if you try to cap alone i am going to find you and kill you. It takes so long to cap i can fly over have a look, get a nice position, drift in to 5k and slow to 1/4 impluse decloak blow you up wait for recharge on cloak and move off. QQ if you must, flame me for using the 'lame combo' whatever in the end until it is nerfed, or until i cam get my hands on some bridge officer skill combos i would like to try (i have seen them but they are all on starfleet toons dammit) this is what i am going to be using.
Doesn't matter, in the sample sizes you're talking about player skill evens out to the point where it becomes statistically insignificant. The bell curve of Klingon ability may be a few microns to the 'win' side of the Federation, but to suggest that over 1000 matches it will affect the results in any meaningful way shows a woeful lack of understanding of statistics - and indeed human behaviour.
Mark, I am curious as to how you come to that conclusion. How is "player skill" measured?
Surely you could share some of this immense L2P wisdom that you have gained?
"WE" are waiting...
<cricket, cricket>
Unfortunately simply writing about how to play the game here wont make you as good a player as me. You actually have to go and play the game instead of just whining on the forums all day long because your PvE combos dont work in PvP.
Comments
2) There are several counters to cloak. L2P
3) who knows...
4) L2P
VM should be completelly change to randomly affect 1 Subsystem of a ship...Engines OR Shields, OR Weapons, OR BO Abilities etc etc for a maximum of 10 seconds....its cool down should be Higher as well to limit its use. Make the choice Strategic one not one that you can spam over and over.
SNB effects should be kept at 3 seconds no more
Yes this I agree with, Cloak is fine, I play Fed, but I think Cloak works as it is supposed to.
Nothing to L2P here really, shields and Hull go down within 5 seconds in the game it is simply too fast to kill a StarShip...
I would like Star Ship engagements and battles not fantasy Characters dressed up as Starships.
Oh and 3 seconds for SNB? Are you mad? Way to kill a skill stone dead. It would be totally useless at 3 seconds.
VM is fine as is it. It just needs the immunity to actually work and for it not to be stackable.
I love the mentality of people that play this game. Any other game people would take the time to practice, learn it and become a decent player. STO its like "ok I cant win and keep dieing, the entire game needs to be changed to suit my lazy, awful playstyle because I suck" attitude. So pathetic.
This is absolutely accurate.
There is very few borked abilties, which will be fixed soon. Overall i feell the pvp is balanced, if the pvp scenario starts with even numbers.
1) I agree.
2) Like what? Ranges are short and arena space is big. Cloak is infinite. The greatest problem is that Feds have no reasonable way of finding a cloaked kling ship in all the space provided in an arena zone. I want cat and mouse, not sit and wait.
3) the queue system is BY FAR my #1 complaint with STO. It MUST be fixed to start allowing for some semblance of balance in the PvP aspect of the game.
4) I think so far I agree... L2P or re-roll tactical/escort if you don't understand the strengths of cruiser.
2) You have cat and mouse now. You just can't be bothered learning to play cat. Sit and wait is why you aren't finding anyone. And no I don't have time to teach you how to search by grid and do a true 'sub' hunt ..watch the history channel or something.
3) Should be fixed to remove all queues you aren't opting in for so you don't get double counted.
:cool:
So really, its not THAT EASY to spot a klingon with clue...not many fly in middle of fedball cloaked...
The only "easy" way to spot klingons is to fly a sci ship with my aux.
Shields DO go down really quick. Most of my play in PVP is spamming abilities to rise shields :rolleyes:
Cruiser are supposed to have some passive tanking abilities.$
I think the overall fire power in the game is too high compared to passive defense. Turns the game into some kind of space invaders instead of something more tactical.
And I agree Subleonic is cheated. Such powerful ability should have at least a counter mesure.
Use subleonic on an attacked ship gave a freekill, that's unfair.
Cloaking is supposed to give less resistant ships a possibility to avoid destruction. Thing is I don't feel Klings ships using it are less resistant than Feds.
I'd like to see stats about Win/loss in PVP. I'm pretty sure Feds lose 75%. And I feel it's not only about players skills.
There is no way to extrapolate accurate results.
Which is very convenient. No ? :rolleyes:
Depends, i still think, that if we would filter out the obvious (ab)uses of certain abilties, the result would still shown that the average klingon is better than the average fed..thus on average the klingons are more skilled. Of course the larger the statistical sample, the greater possibility of some unpredictable result..like horrible klingons and very skilled feds...
But you may argue it as much as you want, but the average fed, who was leveling via pve mainly, is less skilled in pvp as average klingon, who was leveling mainly via pvp. Now we can argue, that most pvp matches arent balanced, and the klingons wont improve with turkey shotting. But overall their hmmmm, lets call it tactical awareness, is better.
IF that were true, then the "more skilled" Klingon surely doesn't NEED uber stealth? I mean, if the player skills are that much better, then surely he could get the same results by not using ONE particular ability; Cloak.
/sarcasm off
LOLZ
Oh? you mean the dev's don't record anything to help them in changing the balance of the game?
or, OH! you mean this is only arcade level space combat?
or OH! you mean this is a pay to play Beta version of the game?
Great argument there, I LOVE the way you discuss things in detail and show facts to prove your points. Solid rebuttal, you leave no way for anyone to prove you wrong.
/sarcasm off
oh, are you a Klingon player?
Skill factor is not a mathematical value. Go back to school
2) I agree, I play a Sci captain in a Sci ship and passive cloak detection does not exist in this game. The ONLY cloak detection is the Sensor Scan ability of Science captains. that works for 15 seconds out of 90. Any BO ability is only useful AFTER you are attacked by the Klingons. So, to throw their own words back at the L2P 'ers.... L2P cloak detection.
3) Agreed, the queue system shows me two important things: this game is still in Beta testing, as I think GUILD WARS had this "issue" solved before it released; and Cryptic has neither the staff nor the inclination to do much for PvP beyond a few instances and the "queue system". You know, actually calling it a system is insulting to every programmer that has every tried to build one. I apologize to all those programmers. (that Don't work for Cryptic)
4) I don't play a cruiser, but to me it seems that it's main advantage is to present one shield side to the enemy for the entire time it takes a BOP to blast it (the cruiser) to smithereens.
You say it in a tone and grammer that suggests I give a TRIBBLE? And what Dalnar said.
The people that PvP regular know what is imba in STO and what isnt. We get random QQ threads like this one pop up now and again clearly by people that all is left for them to do is L2P. Everyone else is getting along just dandy.
recording something so SIMPLE as number of matches won and number of matches lost, by whom.
that is QUITE within the realm of database programming.
so, ummm, what was it you said? oh,
Go back to school.
Ok lets say you save 1000 matches, now tell me, how you will clear the data of playerskill, which is an upredictable variable, so you can get objective results on what is, and what isnt overpowered. Because if you dont filter the skill out, the "skilled" will always outpeforms the noobs, so nerf the skilled ?
So please tell us, how to filter out 10000 individual playerskill variables out of 1000 matches, and im sure you will get a nobel prize for it.
LOLZ, Ditto
side note: do you know what "Irony" is?
Surely you could share some of this immense L2P wisdom that you have gained?
"WE" are waiting...
<cricket, cricket>
Since we are talking about a fictional 1000 matches here, let's just postulate that out of those 1000 matches, 800 of them were won by one team, and further that Subnucleonic Beam just happened to be used between 5 and 10 seconds before 10000 of the kills.
Would that seem to indicate something?
Oh, and yes, I agree with you that player skill is an unpredictable variable. So it cannot be measured. So it is not recorded. I'm sorry, i must have missed it, What is your point again?
Huh ? SNB has nothing to do with pvp balance as both sides have equal access to it, that doesnt mean its not overpowerd, but it has nothing to do with balance. Dont mess apples with pears. Im asking you, how you would filter out 10000 personal player-skills out of 1000 recorded matches, to compare the data.
I agree, and I am a Science Captain. I do not want an "I Win" button. As such, I refuse to use VM. Sadly, I feel I must use SnB BEFORE it gets used on ME. These 2 abilities ALONE make such a shambles of what could be a great starship combat simulator. Shields, power, weapons, gear, BO abilities, none of that matters. SnB, VM = 99% chance of a kill.
2) I know. cloak detection is 15 seconds out of 90. period. but that is Cyptic's version of "balance" ...I guess.
4) but you're supposed to be the tank...5 seconds? really? ummm, OUCH! Where o' where is the BALANCE?
K'rapok General KDF
So to you, an overpowered ability has nothing to do with balance. Oh. Interesting.
I answered your question. I see that you missed the answer. Player skill cannot be measured. Thus you cannot "filter out" what you cannot measure.
Doesn't matter, in the sample sizes you're talking about player skill evens out to the point where it becomes statistically insignificant. The bell curve of Klingon ability may be a few microns to the 'win' side of the Federation, but to suggest that over 1000 matches it will affect the results in any meaningful way shows a woeful lack of understanding of statistics - and indeed human behaviour.
Mark, I am curious as to how you come to that conclusion. How is "player skill" measured?
Unfortunately simply writing about how to play the game here wont make you as good a player as me. You actually have to go and play the game instead of just whining on the forums all day long because your PvE combos dont work in PvP.