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Easy Fix for the T5 Fed Queue Problems

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Stop rewarding people for losing.

Suddenly, all the Feds who were only playing so that they could suicide and get medals will stop joining queues.

Meanwhile, I don't think it will impact Klingons. I dunno how many Klingons I can speak for, but I'm still doing T5 scenarios for the fun of it. I have thousands of medals and nothing left to buy. I have millions of credits and nothing left to buy. I do the Salvage map for the honor token daily quest but I don't really even care about that and would do some Salvage maps now and then anyway.


The only people left would be those who just play because they like PvP. All the suicidal non-teaming idiots who are clogging the queues up now would just go away (or they'd learn how to stop sucking so they could win sometimes).
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Slamz wrote:
    Stop rewarding people for losing.

    Suddenly, all the Feds who were only playing so that they could suicide and get medals will stop joining queues.

    Meanwhile, I don't think it will impact Klingons. I dunno how many Klingons I can speak for, but I'm still doing T5 scenarios for the fun of it. I have thousands of medals and nothing left to buy. I have millions of credits and nothing left to buy. I do the Salvage map for the honor token daily quest but I don't really even care about that and would do some Salvage maps now and then anyway.


    The only people left would be those who just play because they like PvP. All the suicidal non-teaming idiots who are clogging the queues up now would just go away (or they'd learn how to stop sucking so they could win sometimes).

    Such truths will invariably be met with no child left behind outcrys of rage.

    Littlejohnny is special donchaknow!?!?
    :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think there would be an issue on salvage maps. Starfleet players tend to not shout "OH BOY OH BOY" when the PvP pop up... pops up. Like 4 out of 7 salvage games I did today, as Starfleet, KDF was already ahead by 600 points and it was 1v7. By the time enough Starfleet ships showed up, the match was over and 4 people got no points because they couldn't fire a shot.

    But arena maps. Arena maps need to start giving out rewards after reaching a certain threshold of damage dealt against defeats and bonuses for kills after a certain amount. I think that would discourage suiciders and feeders on both sides.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Oh man, I had an evil thought. I mean moreso than usual.

    Lots of people seem to want "unlimited skill points" for captain skills.

    How about this (it's evil because it will infuriate the PvErs) --

    * Space deathmatch maps: You must kill 5 people without dying. After this, every additional kill gives you 10 captain points.
    * Ground deathmatch maps: You must kill 15 people without dying. After this, every additional kill gives you 4 captain points.

    This means that in a perfect game (where you get in on every kill and where you never die), you can get 100 captain points out of a space or ground deathmatch. (Generally you'll get less since you'll probably die once or miss out on some kills.)


    We'll have to think of something else for Salvage and Mine. Maybe for Salvage you get captain points at the end of the round based on how many points the enemy team has. Enemy team has 1200 points, you get nothing. Enemy team has 0 points, you get 50 captain points (so there's less points to give out but since the requirements are easier to meet you're more likely to get some, versus deathmatch where you might win but end up with no captain points because you never reached 5/15 kills in a row without dying.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Easy fix for suiciders is death penalty (greater than potential rewards from a PVP match).

    Easy fix for a faction-specific, rank-specific queue overload? Faction-specific PVP (i.e., FvF).

    Ideal solution for suiciders and AFKers? Purely participation-based rewards (participation including buffs/debuffs and ally shield repairs), with a bonus for winners.

    Ideal solution for faction-specific, rank-specific queue overload? Cross-rank (cross-tier) queues.

    ===

    Otherwise, punishing losers (or rather, not rewarding them anything), will be just as frustrating for both factions when PUGs encounter premades. In other words, it favours premades in a single tier bracket above the rest of the game.

    Better solution is to separate PUGs from premades.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Slamz wrote:
    Oh man, I had an evil thought. I mean moreso than usual.

    Lots of people seem to want "unlimited skill points" for captain skills.

    How about this (it's evil because it will infuriate the PvErs) --

    * Space deathmatch maps: You must kill 5 people without dying. After this, every additional kill gives you 10 captain points.
    * Ground deathmatch maps: You must kill 15 people without dying. After this, every additional kill gives you 4 captain points.

    This would be ****in awesome... it would be like the good old dark age of camelot, where you after hiting max level had to do PvP to improve your characters skills... PvE was only for some gear :D

    Would love it... but honesty I dont see it comming, the pure PvE Folks would QQ without ends :/
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You think there are 100+ RA5 feds in the queues for hours at a time, forced to practically sit on their hands while they wait because of the buggy notification system, and they don't want to actually PVP? Seriously, what?

    If all they wanted was BO points and medals, there are far easier ways to get them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    You think there are 100+ RA5 feds in the queues for hours at a time, forced to practically sit on their hands while they wait because of the buggy notification system, and they don't want to actually PVP? Seriously, what?

    If all they wanted was BO points and medals, there are far easier ways to get them.

    ^this^. Don't punish the people that want to play because of the people that don't want to play.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    You think there are 100+ RA5 feds in the queues for hours at a time, forced to practically sit on their hands while they wait because of the buggy notification system, and they don't want to actually PVP? Seriously, what?

    If all they wanted was BO points and medals, there are far easier ways to get them.

    Considering how they act once they actually get into battle (solo suiciding the enemy, running up and jumping up and down in front of us until we kill them, etc) I have to conclude that yes, there are LOTS of people in the queue for points and medals, who don't give a TRIBBLE about PvP or winning.

    Maybe there are easier ways to get those points and medals. Maybe someone needs to tell them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    In theory, your suggestion is sound. The reality of the situation would be somewhat different. This applies to both Federation and Klingon players, as neither group is populated by people who inherently have more fortitude.

    In practice, this is what will happen:

    1 - The number of people who would join the queue and actually try to play would go down. Some people will refuse to try at all if defeat means they get nothing. This is due to a central flaw in current western civilization, and so can not be addressed within the context of STO. Namely, that generations have now been raised on the "there are no winners or losers because we are all winners for trying" philosophy. Yes, this DOES eventually touch every aspect of your life, and no you can NOT escape from it in games if that game requires multiple people to play.

    2 - As soon as it looks like a team might lose, several people will "jump ship" as there will be no incentive to stick around and try. This will create a self-fulfilling result of defeat for that side. Both Fed and Kling players will do this, and I do not relish the experience of being abandoned by my team. This is fueled by both practicality (I only have so much time to play) and by the problem cited in point 1 (above).


    I know you want to create a "better" breed of PvPer (which is a good thing), but I do not think this will accomplish it. Many people PvP for "fun", but refuse to acknowledge that winning is "fun".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I don't think it's a question of "fortitude".

    It's a question of why you sign up for a PvP match. I think the reasons can be whittled down to two things:

    a) You think it's fun and you enjoy the rewards.
    b) You don't think it's fun but do it anyway because of the rewards.

    My theory is that 80% of Klingons fall under "a". We still enjoy medals and XP and money and officer points, but mainly we do it because it's fun. We heard Klingons were a PvP team and said, "Well sign me up!" If we only get rewarded for wins, we'll still play because we still think it's fun.

    However, I think at LEAST 50% of Federation players fall under "b". They are really here for the Federation Star Trek PvE game and they are signing up for PvP not because they enjoy the competition but because they want to "experience all the content" or they want something in particular from the PvP vendor (or in T5, they want the purple honor gear and are doing the PvP dailies for the medals). So they sign up but they don't really care and don't really try. They are simply clogging the queues.



    So if losers get nothing, I predict we lose 20% or less of the Klingons from the queues and 50% or more of the Federation from the queues.

    Net result:
    The people who actually enjoy PvP have shorter queues and have better games against each other.



    I agree that the QQ would be staggering and Cryptic would never do it. I'm just sayin', this plan would totally work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sounds good to me, but... you'll have to reduce the Daily to 0/2 I'd say. Simply put, there aren't enough Klingons to go around.

    Maybe if they additionally set a timer which populated redside with Feds after 20 min of waiting or something, complete with the ships being changed to ISS designations and replacing Starfleet logos with Terran ones for the duration of combat.


    EDIT: I want to add however that I do **NOT** condone FvF PvP unless and until Klingon side becomes a fully-featured faction. If Klingon is to be a 95% PvP faction as it is now, then FvF is simply not fair to the redside, like hiring scabs during a strike - you're taking content from them. the advantage and point of my Mirror Univers ISS flagging proposal is that it is a dynamic idea - as the demand for more redside opponents is met by an increase in Klingon population, the number of redside TEF'd Feds diminishes. Everyone gets to play, with less waiting.
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