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Ground PvP too extreme because enemies visible on map

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
OK, in space combat it's necessary to see the enemies on the map because of the larger distances in space but I think in ground combat the map should be changed in a way that you can't see enemies on the map, only your teammates.

As it is now any kind of strategic gameplay (creeping, hiding, ambushing and such things) are impossible because the enemy always knows exactly where you are. This leads to a kind of extreme gameplay where the combatants simply run on each other like colliding trucks.

The loop is always the same: respawn, run, kill or get killed, rinse and repeat in seconds. That's not fun that's only a senseless butchery!

So I strongly suggest to make enemies on map not visible!

It's long ago when I played last time PvP in a typical FPS-shooter (Quake etc.) but if I remeber right even in those games the enemies were never shown on map. For a good reason because it ruins ambitious gameplay.

I would like to hear what others think about this issue. Do you think it's good or bad that we can see the enemies on ground combat maps?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I used to think the same thing back during beta (note: back then, we couldn't see the guys on our own side on the map, just the enemy). However, what you say here -
    Druuna wrote:
    The loop is always the same: respawn, run, kill or get killed, rinse and repeat in seconds. That's not fun that's only a senseless butchery!

    This would only be made worse if we couldn't see the enemy on the map; think of all the games that have been lost because respawns scattered the team and they were never able to regroup properly. Imagine how much worse that would be if you couldn't see the enemy to go around them.

    Being able to avoid the enemy is just as important as being able to attack them; but you can't do that if you can't see them coming.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    So what is to stop you fun running right into the middle of the enemy after a respawn if you can't see them?

    Most times you respawn 4 ft away from the enemy anyway........
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Against this proposal. Matches last way too long as it is. If we are unable to see the enemy ground PvP will come to a stand still. There will be people hidding behind corners, boxes and simply milking the match. People will stealth will be given a blank pass alltogether.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ya it is not as if we can;lt have a tricorder up and see where enemy is...

    I prefer it as is. Work on active tactics and coordination and do not only rely on ambush and surprise. The current system helps teams re-group.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The_Stig wrote: »
    Against this proposal. Matches last way too long as it is. If we are unable to see the enemy ground PvP will come to a stand still. There will be people hidding behind corners, boxes and simply milking the match. People will stealth will be given a blank pass alltogether.

    People do not enter PvP zones for hiding all the time. You are maybe right that matches would last longer but not much because areas like the "Ghost-Ship" are small. I see also not why longer matches would make lesser fun.

    Look like it is now: Very few people play ground PvP and I think the reason is because it's so extreme compared to space PvP. If ground PvP stay like it is it will stay a niche for a handful players who like this. Is that good?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Suraknar wrote: »
    Ya it is not as if we can;lt have a tricorder up and see where enemy is...

    I prefer it as is. Work on active tactics and coordination and do not only rely on ambush and surprise. The current system helps teams re-group.

    Noone said you shouldnt your OWN team on the minimap, just enemies would not be visible. Think of it as an encrypted transponder that only your team can read.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yes, this needs changed. We shouldn't see enemy on the map. Was stupid of them to ever make it this way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Digglez wrote:
    Noone said you shouldnt your OWN team on the minimap, just enemies would not be visible. Think of it as an encrypted transponder that only your team can read.

    But as mentioned earlier, it's hard to regroup if you can't see the group of 5 enemies between you and where the rest of your team is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Druuna wrote:
    OK, in space combat it's necessary to see the enemies on the map because of the larger distances in space but I think in ground combat the map should be changed in a way that you can't see enemies on the map, only your teammates.

    As it is now any kind of strategic gameplay (creeping, hiding, ambushing and such things) are impossible because the enemy always knows exactly where you are. This leads to a kind of extreme gameplay where the combatants simply run on each other like colliding trucks.

    The loop is always the same: respawn, run, kill or get killed, rinse and repeat in seconds. That's not fun that's only a senseless butchery!

    So I strongly suggest to make enemies on map not visible!

    It's long ago when I played last time PvP in a typical FPS-shooter (Quake etc.) but if I remeber right even in those games the enemies were never shown on map. For a good reason because it ruins ambitious gameplay.

    I would like to hear what others think about this issue. Do you think it's good or bad that we can see the enemies on ground combat maps?

    I think this is a good idea, it would encourage teamwork and even some tactics other than the lemmings one used by so many people.

    Maybe if the enemy was not seen, people would stick togather and support each other more. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I was on last night and the ability to see opposing players was removed with the last patch... :p

    Kudos Cryptic! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    strange, I was on last night and I could see opposing players on the map just fine. are you talking about ground combat, or are you talking about the problem with stealthed ships in space combat?

    -ken
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think its an interesting idea.
    It would add alot to the game.
    Perhaps they could allow us to use the tri-corder to scan a limited distance for enemies?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Druuna wrote:
    People do not enter PvP zones for hiding all the time. You are maybe right that matches would last longer but not much because areas like the "Ghost-Ship" are small. I see also not why longer matches would make lesser fun.

    Look like it is now: Very few people play ground PvP and I think the reason is because it's so extreme compared to space PvP. If ground PvP stay like it is it will stay a niche for a handful players who like this. Is that good?

    Yes, things should be done to make ground combat more entertaining, but your suggestions would make gameplay worse, not better. You would likely end up with maps where players are hiding just to be jerks. We don't need any new ways for players to grief other players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    MAK0 wrote: »
    I was on last night and the ability to see opposing players was removed with the last patch... :p

    Kudos Cryptic! :D

    You probably just didn't realize they screwed up the map zoom.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    TheIgmo wrote:
    But as mentioned earlier, it's hard to regroup if you can't see the group of 5 enemies between you and where the rest of your team is.

    oh no, I might have to STOP, turn around and find an alternate direction.....using that minimap thing or even *gasp* pull up the main map.

    Frackin eh you guys are gimps
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I am for this is they lower the kill count to like 25 then it would be a good option. but 40 kill sand not seeing the other team will make games last even longer than they are now.
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