Need gets priority over Greed. So if you roll need, and everyone else rolls greed you are guaranteed the item.
However you should only roll Need if you actually need the item and intend to use it. Its considered poor behavior to roll need if you just intend to sell the item, and in most online games will get you a rather negative reputation.
However you should only roll Need if you actually need the item and intend to use it. Its considered poor behavior to roll need if you just intend to sell the item, and in most online games will get you a rather negative reputation.
Unfortunately in the groups I have been in the last couple of days since this was implemented, the other members were clicking NEED on everything except batteries. Went through 2 missions with the same group and got 3 batteries as my only drops. I know it's not the system, it's the users. But the system, like any other system, can be abused.
Unfortunately in the groups I have been in the last couple of days since this was implemented, the other members were clicking NEED on everything except batteries. Went through 2 missions with the same group and got 3 batteries as my only drops. I know it's not the system, it's the users. But the system, like any other system, can be abused.
That's exactly why in PUGs, I have either Round Robin all the time (especially at the last segment of Infected) or straight up just hit need myself if someone hits need but doesn't immediately follow up with anything along the lines of "ooh, my BO could use that". It takes away all the drama.
Need gets priority over Greed. So if you roll need, and everyone else rolls greed you are guaranteed the item.
However you should only roll Need if you actually need the item and intend to use it. Its considered poor behavior to roll need if you just intend to sell the item, and in most online games will get you a rather negative reputation.
This explains it all. Already i have blacklisted some people for needing on items they will sell.
why? because need/greed rolling relies on people to estimate their own need for things. in some games they do that very well. here they do not. if people were religiously following true need/greed rules someone would roll need about 1 in 10 loot drops. currently in every loot drop at least one person is hitting need.
Unfortunately in the groups I have been in the last couple of days since this was implemented, the other members were clicking NEED on everything except batteries. Went through 2 missions with the same group and got 3 batteries as my only drops. I know it's not the system, it's the users. But the system, like any other system, can be abused.
The first time they do it, send them a polite tell requesting they use the system as it's intended.
The second time, add them to your ignore list and either drop team or kick them, depending on whether you're the team leader or not.
After a while they'll learn. I usually remove people from my ignore list after a few days.
Well this system wont be a problem if all will choose Need all the time. But considering all go Greed and one person Need that makes it stupid. And speaking about needing item for yourself should be superior to selling item - that is wrong. You can sell the item and for the money buy item that suits your needs, so really theres no reason that someone Needs item more than other.
This argument has gone around and around a hundred times on a hundre MB posts in a hundred games.
You can't control other people's behavior. You can only control your own. For me, all it comes down to is Fairness vs. Compassion.
If I care about being fair: I will always hit Need, and assume others will do the same. The Random Number Table does not care about the details of your situation, your sob story, or your interest in building an offspec set. It only cares that you are present to receive a number. If your number is the highest, you win.
If I care about being compassionate: you will use the system "as its intended", and assume that those who respect you will do the same. This is not fairness, it is charity. You give up something (your roll) to allow someone else to benefit.
Some days I feel one way, some days the other.
Nobody really "needs" items anyhow. Either you're doing just fine without it, or you're not really pulling your weight and don't deserve it.
Bottom line then, is that Greedy people will click Need to get the item. Yeah, round robin is a better system.
It depends on the group.
In PUGs, round robin is probably the fairest and simplest option. However, in groups that know each other, need or greed tends to allow a better distribution of items.
Need before Greed is really for friendly groups, where people agree on what defines need. There is no "official" meaning. Need can meed anything from Need it to improve this character now, to I need the money I can get from it by selling it. Add the complexity of BO need vs player character need, and I do not see it as being very popular in STO. IMHO round-robin with trading is best, then for friendly groups go with anyone loots and trade freely.
In general, if you would not just give something to a team mate that wants it, go with round robin.
Well this system wont be a problem if all will choose Need all the time. But considering all go Greed and one person Need that makes it stupid. And speaking about needing item for yourself should be superior to selling item - that is wrong. You can sell the item and for the money buy item that suits your needs, so really theres no reason that someone Needs item more than other.
It's this kind of thinking that makes you the person people will start putting on ignore. The "I need money" argument isn't valid, since everyone needs money. In the case of somebody needing an item more than another, a tac in an escort needs a cannon more than anyone else, and one could argue about various consoles for certain classes.
If the items dropping are bind on equip, then everyone rolling need is fine, since you can trade the items after the roll if anyone speaks up about a certain item. Most items in the game are useful to everyone, so it's not like a warlock rolling need on plate, but rolling need on something that isn't good for you and is for another in the group is bad form.
This came up during an Infected run last weekend. Someone refused to stay in the group if I didn't have Round Robin, so they left and I replaced them. While I can understand some people having very greedy groups, my group was not. If anyone had needed stuff they did not need, I would have booted them without hesitation. It's hard to trust someone, but I'd rather trust my group not to need things they don't need than know that I never have more than a 1/5 chance of getting an item.
Even if you don't trust someone, you will never get worse than a 1/5 chance with need/greed. If everyone else rolls need, you roll need and it's the same thing.
While I am almost always the group leader, I wouldn't even trust myself with Master Looter. Don't let anyone else do it either, IMHO.
Comments
If you click need and everyone else clicks on greed, you get it.
If everyone clicks on greed, then it's chance based as to whom gets it.
If more than one click need, then I guess it's chance based among those who clicked need, but I might be wrong.
If you need it, click need.
If you're gonna sell it, click greed.
However you should only roll Need if you actually need the item and intend to use it. Its considered poor behavior to roll need if you just intend to sell the item, and in most online games will get you a rather negative reputation.
Unfortunately in the groups I have been in the last couple of days since this was implemented, the other members were clicking NEED on everything except batteries. Went through 2 missions with the same group and got 3 batteries as my only drops.
That's exactly why in PUGs, I have either Round Robin all the time (especially at the last segment of Infected) or straight up just hit need myself if someone hits need but doesn't immediately follow up with anything along the lines of "ooh, my BO could use that". It takes away all the drama.
This explains it all. Already i have blacklisted some people for needing on items they will sell.
round robin is more fair at the moment.
why? because need/greed rolling relies on people to estimate their own need for things. in some games they do that very well. here they do not. if people were religiously following true need/greed rules someone would roll need about 1 in 10 loot drops. currently in every loot drop at least one person is hitting need.
The first time they do it, send them a polite tell requesting they use the system as it's intended.
The second time, add them to your ignore list and either drop team or kick them, depending on whether you're the team leader or not.
After a while they'll learn. I usually remove people from my ignore list after a few days.
Gets right in the way. I stick with RR unless its a Boss.
You can't control other people's behavior. You can only control your own. For me, all it comes down to is Fairness vs. Compassion.
If I care about being fair: I will always hit Need, and assume others will do the same. The Random Number Table does not care about the details of your situation, your sob story, or your interest in building an offspec set. It only cares that you are present to receive a number. If your number is the highest, you win.
If I care about being compassionate: you will use the system "as its intended", and assume that those who respect you will do the same. This is not fairness, it is charity. You give up something (your roll) to allow someone else to benefit.
Some days I feel one way, some days the other.
Nobody really "needs" items anyhow. Either you're doing just fine without it, or you're not really pulling your weight and don't deserve it.
It depends on the group.
In PUGs, round robin is probably the fairest and simplest option. However, in groups that know each other, need or greed tends to allow a better distribution of items.
In general, if you would not just give something to a team mate that wants it, go with round robin.
It's this kind of thinking that makes you the person people will start putting on ignore. The "I need money" argument isn't valid, since everyone needs money. In the case of somebody needing an item more than another, a tac in an escort needs a cannon more than anyone else, and one could argue about various consoles for certain classes.
If the items dropping are bind on equip, then everyone rolling need is fine, since you can trade the items after the roll if anyone speaks up about a certain item. Most items in the game are useful to everyone, so it's not like a warlock rolling need on plate, but rolling need on something that isn't good for you and is for another in the group is bad form.
If everyone chooses need all the time, then it's the same as Round the Robin..everyone has an equal chance to get it
Even if you don't trust someone, you will never get worse than a 1/5 chance with need/greed. If everyone else rolls need, you roll need and it's the same thing.
While I am almost always the group leader, I wouldn't even trust myself with Master Looter. Don't let anyone else do it either, IMHO.