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Rear Admiral or Comodore ?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in The Academy
I don't know if it's been asked before, nothing showed up in the search.

In STO we have the rank Rear Admiral, with the pip being a square with one dot. But according to memory alpha, and beta.. and just about every one, that rank is rear admiral (lower half) or Comodore.
The Rear Admiral rank has a rectangle with 2 dots.

(Source :
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_ranks
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Rear_admiral)

Anyone notice this ? Is it a Cryptic Error ?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    --There' a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) which is 1 pip, and Rear Admiral (Upper Half) which is two. Admirals have to start somwhere... might as well be at 1, eh? After that it's Vice Admiral (3 Pips) and Fleet Admiral (4).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I didn't notice the pips thing. But Ii did notice that admirals are going to be extremely common pretty quic. I think they should change rear admiral to commodore someday.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    --Commodore is Rear Admiral... I'm surprised that a lot of people get that messed up. There's be no point to rename the rank, it'd still be the same position.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Houseweart wrote:
    --Commodore is Rear Admiral... I'm surprised that a lot of people get that messed up. There's be no point to rename the rank, it'd still be the same position.

    Amen. It was just be the TOS name for it.

    And by the way we can have both rank pins. Lower half and upper half. It's like when we hit lieutenant and could take lieutenant junior grade or lieutenant insignia.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Also when referring to someone such as a lieutenant colonel for example it is common to just say colonel. and so instead of always saying rear admiral lower half they can just say rear admiral, or even just admiral.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mijna wrote: »
    Also when referring to someone such as a lieutenant colonel for example it is common to just say colonel. and so instead of always saying rear admiral lower half they can just say rear admiral, or even just admiral.

    Very true in TNG for example.

    When Lt commander Shellby was on-board Enterprise pre Wolf 359, They all called her Commander.

    There's also lots of other times, like on the bridge but that's the example that came to mind lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kanharn wrote: »
    Very true in TNG for example.

    When Lt commander Shellby was on-board Enterprise pre Wolf 359, They all called her Commander.

    There's also lots of other times, like on the bridge but that's the example that came to mind lol[/QUOTE

    Although when the Admiral was giving her a dressing down for suggesting Picard was collaborating with the Borg, he called her "Lieutenant".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The rank of Commodore no longer officially exists in the US Navy. It is now only used as a title in some cases. Typically used for the senior Captain in charge of several squadrons, but never used once a person hits the rank of Rear Admiral. As far as I know the rank was never synonymous with that of a Rear Admiral in any military at any time, but I could be wrong. Not sure if Commodore was ever used in Star Trek to refer to an Admiral either???

    As for Lieutenant Commander, Lieutenant Colonel or whatever, others referring to us typically drop the Lieutenant portion of the rank. To have someone else call us Commander or Colonel when we our in fact one rank below is acceptable, but to call ourselves Commander or Colonel when we are Lieutenant Commander/Colonel is not acceptable. I only bring this up since I am a Lieutenant Commander in the US Navy.

    P.S. The dropping of Lieutenant to the rank is just do to laziness. It's simply easier to drop it when referring to someone. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    TZRaceR6 wrote: »
    The rank of Commodore no longer officially exists in the US Navy. It is now only used as a title in some cases. Typically used for the senior Captain in charge of several squadrons, but never used once a person hits the rank of Rear Admiral. As far as I know the rank was never synonymous with that of a Rear Admiral in any military at any time, but I could be wrong. Not sure if Commodore was ever used in Star Trek to refer to an Admiral either???

    As for Lieutenant Commander, Lieutenant Colonel or whatever, others referring to us typically drop the Lieutenant portion of the rank. To have someone else call us Commander or Colonel when we our in fact one rank below is acceptable, but to call ourselves Commander or Colonel when we are Lieutenant Commander/Colonel is not acceptable. I only bring this up since I am a Lieutenant Commander in the US Navy.

    P.S. The dropping of Lieutenant to the rank is just do to laziness. It's simply easier to drop it when referring to someone. :D
    Actually, there were a few periods of time where Commodore was used as the name for an 0-7 instead of Rear Admiral (Lower Half). Most recently was for a short period of time in the early 1980's. Prior to that, the title was used in WWII and before 1899.

    But as far as Commodores in STO, that train has long since left the station. Give it up, folks.
    I suspect that Roddenberry picked up the usage from WWII when it was used in ST:TOS.

    As far as "laziness" I know I rarely referred to my division officer as Lieutenant Junior Grade Smith in casual conversation. Now when introducing her it was always used but even then I'd shorten it a bit if the person was familiar with Navy ranks.

    "This is Lieutenant JG Smith. Lieutenant Smith is my Division Officer."

    Oh, and the way STO abbreviates ranks annoys me no end. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    A Commodore is a senior O6 Captain that has been given Flag Grade responsibilities over a task (sometimes a squadron or group of ships, as an example). He is still subordinate to an O7 and above, but within the context of his assignment, he has the authority of the O7.

    All of us in ST:O shouldn't have a disconnect with this concept - we're all, at start, O1 Ensigns with Captain's authority aboard our boat. As soon as we step off our ship, though, any O2 LTjg can have us at attention for a one way conversation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Some of you are missing the point.

    In STO, the one pip rank is called Rear Admiral, not Comodore or Rear Admiral lower half, just Rear Admiral. So what are they going to call the 2 pip rank ? Rear Admiral as well ?
    It would seem strange to use Upper half, if you don't use Lower half for the other one. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Colm wrote: »
    I don't know if it's been asked before, nothing showed up in the search.

    In STO we have the rank Rear Admiral, with the pip being a square with one dot. But according to memory alpha, and beta.. and just about every one, that rank is rear admiral (lower half) or Comodore.
    The Rear Admiral rank has a rectangle with 2 dots.

    (Source :
    http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_ranks
    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Rear_admiral)

    Anyone notice this ? Is it a Cryptic Error ?

    Rear admiral LH is one pip.Commodore does not exist anymore.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Houseweart wrote:
    --Commodore is Rear Admiral... I'm surprised that a lot of people get that messed up. There's be no point to rename the rank, it'd still be the same position.

    Star trek goes by real navy ranks. The us navy changed it and so did star trek to keep up with the times.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tyron_Jara wrote:
    Star trek goes by real navy ranks. The us navy changed it and so did star trek to keep up with the times.

    Just another discontinuity caused by lazy writing. The rank existed in Starfleet in TOS, was simply never used in TNG/DS9/Voy, but then we never saw any single-pip flag officers in those series.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Commodore=fleet captain actualy so a captain who is given command of a fleet or generaly a flotilla.

    It is a rank rarely used these days seeing the entire O6 rank seems to be gone and replaced by Rear admiral.

    Here is the list:

    Ensign---O1
    Lieutenant Junior grade---O2
    Lieutenant---O3
    Lieutenant commander---O4
    Commander---O5
    Captain---O6
    Commodore---O7
    Rear Admiral---O8
    Vice Admiral---O9
    Admiral---O10
    Fleet admiral---O11

    Marine counter parts:

    Second lieutenant---O1
    First lieutenant---O2
    Marine captain---O3
    Major---O4
    Lt Colonel---O5
    Colonel---O6
    Brigadier General---O7
    Major General---O8
    Lieutenant General---O9
    General---O10
    Field Marshal---O11

    that is the whole officer list cannot be bothered with the noncoms :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Personally, I like Commodore. Rear Admiral - Lower Half!?!? That has alwys been akward to me. You're already in the Rear of a Vice, so now you're lower than the Rear which is behind a Vice.
    Why not RA, JG? or 2nd RA. i mean there aren't "Major General, Lower Half "s ... anywhere i can find. The worst thing about Commodore is how close it's abbreviation was to the abbreviation for Commander.

    Maybe we could go back to the Civil War (American) where RA was the highest rank with Commodores and Flag Officers trailing. Of course, Ensigns would revert to being Masters (calm down Dr. Who fans, not Simon Pegg). If you go back a little further, you could be an Ensign in the Army (US or GB).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010


    Greetings all :)

    I would just like to inform everyone viewing this thread that I posted a huge update to my thread yesterday regarding the Rank Structure, the new post is on page #17 within my thread and contains a wide selection of Content Suggestions to be associated with the Ranks, please remember they are only suggestions.

    The thread is the 4th in my signature and is titled, Cryptic, can we have 11 Ranks instead of 6 please?

    There is a lot to read, if you have not previously viewed the thread, you may or may ot be interested in the thread topic but it's still a good read.

    Thank you for your time and attention.

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think Cryptic made a mistake with going from Captain to Rear Admiral for rank progressions. Commodore makes much more sense in regards to how players work in Star Fleet. I think Cryptic could change the name now without upsetting people too much.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    TZRaceR6 wrote: »
    The rank of Commodore no longer officially exists in the US Navy. It is now only used as a title in some cases. Typically used for the senior Captain in charge of several squadrons, but never used once a person hits the rank of Rear Admiral. As far as I know the rank was never synonymous with that of a Rear Admiral in any military at any time, but I could be wrong. Not sure if Commodore was ever used in Star Trek to refer to an Admiral either???

    As for Lieutenant Commander, Lieutenant Colonel or whatever, others referring to us typically drop the Lieutenant portion of the rank. To have someone else call us Commander or Colonel when we our in fact one rank below is acceptable, but to call ourselves Commander or Colonel when we are Lieutenant Commander/Colonel is not acceptable. I only bring this up since I am a Lieutenant Commander in the US Navy.

    P.S. The dropping of Lieutenant to the rank is just do to laziness. It's simply easier to drop it when referring to someone. :D

    Actually if memory serves the rank of Commodore was used in "The Doomsday Device". The captain of the USS Constellation was Commodore Decker.

    Then I also recall a Commodore Wesley - but not sure where in the Trek lore he was found.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The debate over whether or not a Rear Admiral is the same as a Commodore, or whether or not either rank should exist is mute, imho. Like everything else, both ranks have been used throughout history to represent the lower ranking flag officers. In some cases, they were the same rank. In other's they weren't. During the days of the Ships-of-the-Line (IRL), a Commodore commanded only a small squadron of ships. Only Admirals were permitted command of a fleet. During TOS (not IRL) the Commodore ranks was used for Starbase commanders and Fleet Captains. By TNG it had vanished, but there's no reason it couldn't make a comeback by 2409, and if it ever was going to come back, it would most likely do so at a time of war like we see in STO.

    All that said, I wish flag officer ranks were not in game yet at all. I would much rather see Captain cover ranks 31-50.

    Irregardless, I will keep the Captain ranks for my characters. I wouldn't want anyone to confuse me for a desk jockey. ,-)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Palindari wrote: »
    Actually if memory serves the rank of Commodore was used in "The Doomsday Device". The captain of the USS Constellation was Commodore Decker.

    Then I also recall a Commodore Wesley - but not sure where in the Trek lore he was found.

    Commodore Wesley commanded the USS Lexington during the (supposed to be) mock battle with USS Enterprise while controlled by the computer M-5 in TOS episode "The Ultimate Computer".

    There is also Commodore Stone of Starbase 11 from TOS "Court Martial' when Kirk was court martialed. And Commodore Mendez also of Starbase 11 from TOS Episodes "The Menagerie I and II". Who took part in the mock court martial of Spock. (He was a mental projection of the Talosians to keep Kirk off guard).

    Hrm. I think I want to avoid Starbase 11, if at all possible.

    And pardon me while I cover up. My inner geek is showing...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    fuzun wrote: »
    Commodore Wesley commanded the USS Lexington during the (supposed to be) mock battle with USS Enterprise while controlled by the computer M-5 in TOS episode "The Ultimate Computer".

    There is also Commodore Stone of Starbase 11 from TOS "Court Martial' when Kirk was court martialed. And Commodore Mendez also of Starbase 11 from TOS Episodes "The Menagerie I and II". Who took part in the mock court martial of Spock. (He was a mental projection of the Talosians to keep Kirk off guard).

    Hrm. I think I want to avoid Starbase 11, if at all possible.

    And pardon me while I cover up. My inner geek is showing...

    Ah hah! Too late after reading your "Complete Energy Guide" you got exposed. :)

    I knew there was a Wesley somewhere - was worried I was confusing the name with Wesley Crusher from TNG. Glad to hear my brain wasn't as befuddled as I suspected :rolleyes:

    Personally, I see no reason for Cryptic to not to do a slight change and thus adding another tier thus changing current lvl of RA to Commodore and moving RA to the higher level. If they want to keep people in to strive to higher achievements - it seems like the only logical choice (besides adding enriched content).

    Just my 2 cents :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Liandras wrote:
    Commodore=fleet captain actualy so a captain who is given command of a fleet or generaly a flotilla.

    It is a rank rarely used these days seeing the entire O6 rank seems to be gone and replaced by Rear admiral.

    Here is the list:

    Ensign---O1
    Lieutenant Junior grade---O2
    Lieutenant---O3
    Lieutenant commander---O4
    Commander---O5
    Captain---O6
    Commodore---O7
    Rear Admiral---O8
    Vice Admiral---O9
    Admiral---O10
    Fleet admiral---O11

    Marine counter parts:

    Second lieutenant---O1
    First lieutenant---O2
    Marine captain---O3
    Major---O4
    Lt Colonel---O5
    Colonel---O6
    Brigadier General---O7
    Major General---O8
    Lieutenant General---O9
    General---O10
    Field Marshal---O11

    that is the whole officer list cannot be bothered with the noncoms :P

    Your naval ranking is outdated. It's been RA Lower and Upper since the 80's and off and on before that. http://www.navy.mil/navydata/navy_legacy_hr.asp?id=266 link for you.
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