Everyone wins out. No more whining for more content ever again. STO get's more staying power. And Cryptic is saved a metric frak-ton of work, and get to focus on what's important: More game features, instead of creating content which not everyone is satisfied with.
If everyone has different desires on content, let them create their own.
Except it would never be allowed with a huge IP such as startrek. It has to go through authorisation and licensing laws.
I doubt it. I doubt CBS signed off every mission or piece of genesis content in the game, and if signposted as user-created I don't see where the issue would be.
I hated the architect in CoH if that's the reference here. It was used mainly for powerleveling, and the so called "added user made content" was just an excuse not to make real content. The selection and quality was mostly dubious.
I played that game for 4-5 years, and the architect and all it's powerleveling was instrumental in driving me away. I am aware that it was a highly requested feature, and made to appease the user base, or something like that. But personally think it detracted from other areas of the game, and was abused in the most extreme fashion, to blindly rush the advancement of characters.
In the end it was a gimmick far removed from real additions to the game, and not something I wanted to continue to support. But then again these are highly personal opinions, and all ideas have their worth no doubt.
I hated the architect in CoH if that's the reference here. It was used mainly for powerleveling, and the so called "added user made content" was just an excuse not to make real content. The selection and quality was mostly dubious.
I played that game for 4-5 years, and the architect and all it's powerleveling was instrumental in driving me away. I am aware that it was a highly requested feature, and made to appease the user base, or something like that. But personally think it detracted from other areas of the game, and was abused in the most extreme fashion, to blindly rush the advancement of characters.
In the end it was a gimmick far removed from real additions to the game, and not something I wanted to continue to support. But then again these are highly personal opinions, and all ideas have their worth no doubt.
---
If it ends up as you describe it then
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.........
The game needs a place where we can create real trek content. Not a cheats emporium......why play STO if you want to powerlevel. This game needs content.......it needs content content content. If the fans showed that they could create the sort of content that would fit in will with canon and the limitations that the engine sets then the devs could save them selves a WHOLE shed load of work.
I hated the architect in CoH if that's the reference here. It was used mainly for powerleveling, and the so called "added user made content" was just an excuse not to make real content. The selection and quality was mostly dubious.
I played that game for 4-5 years, and the architect and all it's powerleveling was instrumental in driving me away. I am aware that it was a highly requested feature, and made to appease the user base, or something like that. But personally think it detracted from other areas of the game, and was abused in the most extreme fashion, to blindly rush the advancement of characters.
In the end it was a gimmick far removed from real additions to the game, and not something I wanted to continue to support. But then again these are highly personal opinions, and all ideas have their worth no doubt.
---
dont forget that city of is still realling from that disaster. they lost alot of players from it. my home server before was yellow before and during it. during peak, now it cant get past green and 750 people online.
i vote no for this to be added to sto.
the mission creator destroyed coh and ruined the game,
however if it was set up well, and was carefully constructed so that people could create exciting missions then its not too bad.
the thing is sto is different to coh in the way its set up as the rewards for killing random enemies is very little, its the bonus at the end for completing the mission that helps to level you up.
coh creator basically just put loads of mobs on the map for tons of exp and just let 8 man group's farm them. sto is not set up like that so it wont be the same thing.
so as long as the rewards where not to easy to get for doing a couple of minutes work then it might help the game.
if they ever plan to put holodecks in the game then we might see something along these lines.
however as said because its star trek they probably wont let us create story content, and without that it would just end up like any other mission which would be boring.
There is a double XP week-end going on in City of Heroes right now.
This XP bonus doesn't apply to AE missions yet people are still farming AE missions exclusively and ignoring any other content because they can exploit it to get even more XP all year long. Finding a team doing something not-AE related in CoH is borderline impossible on most servers nowadays when it used to take a few minutes at most before the system was implemented.
99% of the content posted on the AE is farming missions with no plot or point, just big zones with tons of mobs to chain kill.
The AE destroyed CoH, let's not port it over here.
Except it would never be allowed with a huge IP such as startrek. It has to go through authorisation and licensing laws.
I don't buy this at all. Players of Star Trek: Elite Force could make their own maps all the time, from Simpson neighborhoods to Honey I Shrunk the Starfleet officers.
There was never any content/licensing issues when this other Trek game gave out tools for user-generated content. The big difference, I guess, is that the fan-made content was run on private servers.
considering some of the TRIBBLE released in the name of star trek i doubt they'd look too closely at something like a system for creating user generated content.
I'm a bit miffed that they give xp for going through such content in CoH though, i think that's a big nono. by all means have user generated content but have it give you absolutely nothing but the enjoyment of playing through it.
considering some of the TRIBBLE released in the name of star trek i doubt they'd look too closely at something like a system for creating user generated content.
I'm a bit miffed that they give xp for going through such content in CoH though, i think that's a big nono. by all means have user generated content but have it give you absolutely nothing but the enjoyment of playing through it.
Yes, I agree. The missions don't have to include drops, loot, or experience. If they are fun, then people will play, especially if the tools are good, allowing the creators to make the mission more like episodes of Star Trek.
Why not use it as a competition based thing......the best content created get's implemented into the actual game and you get some sort of reward for doing so.......is that not a great way to get people to be creative and make some awesome content?
Why not use it as a competition based thing......the best content created get's implemented into the actual game and you get some sort of reward for doing so.......is that not a great way to get people to be creative and make some awesome content?
Plus, it's like having a swarm of amateur devs working on the game for free. They could pick and choose what is or is not worthy.
It's a win win. Players get a continous stream of new content, while Cryptic doesn't have to invest time or people to create it, except for a few people to judge and implement the user-generated content.
Plus, it's like having a swarm of amateur devs working on the game for free. They could pick and choose what is or is not worthy.
It's a win win. Players get a continous stream of new content, while Cryptic doesn't have to invest time or people to create it, except for a few people to judge and implement the user-generated content.
Could not agree more.........Trek fan based content could be rubbish BUT I bet there are more than a few of us out there that understand the meaning of trek and could bring that out within the constraints of this game engine.
I can not see how cryptic could possibly justify not doing something like this considering the current state of the game.
I spent years making maps for Star Trek Elite Force. It was a ton of fun spending hours designing rooms and environments, experimenting with item placement, spawn points, and general gameplay.
The best reward for the time and effort was seeing players enjoy the maps and content. It was really challenging, especially because the tools were super complex and demanded a step learning curve. But, having challenging tools meant that I learned a ton more.
If you're interested, here were a few of my contributions to the game:
Users created content, if handled poorly, can lead to disaster, and a lot of players know that and are worried about such a feature. I'd like to reassure them.
1) Too many missions would be terrible junk stories
Have no fear ! Users created content comes with a rating system, search engine with keywords and usually the company doesn't have to check all the content. They may decide to check the best ones, selected by the players. I'm quite confident the community would rapidly make a website with the very top rating stories listed.
2) CBS would never allow such stories
Jack Emmert already said that they are planning to release a mission creator eventually for STO : I don't think he would say that if CBS wasn't ok with it.
3) User created content = farming, this almost destroyed COX
True, but there are many ways to prevent farming. For instance, you can limit the amount of XP earned by playing such missions and limit the rewards on a once a day basis : the first UCC you play will give you XP, but the other ones won't until tomorrow.
4) The community doesn't have to produce content for free, this is Cryptic's job !
Many trekkies love to write fanfics, some are excellent. I'd like to create stories myself, I find it a very fulfilling experience. Furthermore, this does not mean that Cryptic wouldn't work on content themselves. But imagine that they are working on a new faction, for instance Romulans, designing new ships, new skills, a new main PVE content. While you wait for this major expansion, it would be cool to find new stories to play for your admiral who is bored to days farming the same dailies over and over.
5) A story teller would allow things you'd never have
Imagine a team of 5 or 6 holonovelists working together on a full season, bringing you 24 interesting stories translated into the three languages of STO. One new episode a week, just as the TV show except that YOU are the hero. Frankly, isn't it worth it ? I know I would be delighted to work on such a project and trust me, I'm not alone.
I am saying this as a gamer not a trekkie. If it adds content to the game which is fun then by all means do it. They released this to early with no where near enough content and all they will ever be doing is trying to play catch up and never get ahead of the player curve. If it adds enjoyment then TRIBBLE canon and add it.
I don't buy this at all. Players of Star Trek: Elite Force could make their own maps all the time, from Simpson neighborhoods to Honey I Shrunk the Starfleet officers.
There was never any content/licensing issues when this other Trek game gave out tools for user-generated content. The big difference, I guess, is that the fan-made content was run on private servers.
Those were maps for a game that wasn't an MMO. Anything used in STO has to get approved by CBS first, devs have made that clear already, with CBS being so particular that even the text on the turbolifts has to be what CBS wants it to be, no exceptions. And you REALLY think user created content is going to get throught THAT process?
And, for the record, Jack never said they WOULD release the tools or they WOULD put in user created content, he said it's something they would LIKE to do, not something they are GOING to do.
Me, personally, having seen what user created content is like 99.9% of the time, I'm so NOT for this.
*edit*
An answer from Zinc in an interview just posted..
MN: How does Cryptic feel about the possibility of empowering subscribers to build and share their own content within the game through the use of holosuite locations and some kind of complementary out-of-game mission designer application?
CZ: User-generated content is a very exciting and new way for developers to connect with fans. The major question to keep in mind is: Does this work for the IP? Theres a lot to consider with Star Trek in order to capture the feel of the universe. Extending that out to a broad group may not grant the returns wed all like to see. Additionally, since we dont own the Star Trek IP, wed have to consider the extended approval process, since not just Cryptic would be involved in determining what fits best in the game. But in a perfect world, its something wed love to do with all of our games.
That extended approval process is CBS, and they are rather strict on what's allowed in the game, from the big stuff to the little stuff, you really think they'll be on board for user created content and the total non-IP fiasco THAT would entail? CoH and it's Architech system is one thing, there's no IP to be dealt with, but this IS STO and there is an IP, one who's controlling owner, CBS, is a nitpicker extraordinaire, NOT to mention all the legal ramifications of allowing user created content in such an iconic IP.
But I think what really sums it up, as far as Cryptic is concerned and this ever happening is the final sentence..
'But in a perfect world, it's something we'd love to do with all of our games.'
And we all know, it ain't a perfect world...
The trekkies always tried to create their own stories (fanfics, RPG, mods and even a TOS sequel). A stories creator would be a game in the game for many of them and would keep them busy for years to come. Cryptic could select the very best stories and even add them to the pool of regular missions.
Those were maps for a game that wasn't an MMO. Anything used in STO has to get approved by CBS first, devs have made that clear already, with CBS being so particular that even the text on the turbolifts has to be what CBS wants it to be, no exceptions. And you REALLY think user created content is going to get throught THAT process?
And, for the record, Jack never said they WOULD release the tools or they WOULD put in user created content, he said it's something they would LIKE to do, not something they are GOING to do.
Me, personally, having seen what user created content is like 99.9% of the time, I'm so NOT for this.
*edit*
An answer from Zinc in an interview just posted..
That extended approval process is CBS, and they are rather strict on what's allowed in the game, from the big stuff to the little stuff, you really think they'll be on board for user created content and the total non-IP fiasco THAT would entail? CoH and it's Architech system is one thing, there's no IP to be dealt with, but this IS STO and there is an IP, one who's controlling owner, CBS, is a nitpicker extraordinaire, NOT to mention all the legal ramifications of allowing user created content in such an iconic IP.
But I think what really sums it up, as far as Cryptic is concerned and this ever happening is the final sentence..
'But in a perfect world, it's something we'd love to do with all of our games.'
And we all know, it ain't a perfect world...
If they were so strict, do you really think we'd be killing civilians and babies in STO? From the typos in the dialogues to the lack of QA, it's clear that there is no one at CBS monitoring every mission that closely. Plus, in the context of a Holodeck, anything goes as far as user-generated content.
I would suspect that many fan-made missions would be a lot closer to the Trek that CBS protects than many of the missions that Crptic made.
A game is not canon. Different rules apply. CBS is not a canon police force when it comes to games.
The trekkies always tried to create their own stories (fanfics, RPG, mods and even a TOS sequel).
Yes, and for the most part, Paramount and CBS have tolerated and even encouraged it. It's only when people try to do it for profit when TPTB get upset.
If they were so strict, do you really think we'd be killing civilians
why do you assume the phasers are set to kill, why cant they be set to stun? yes there is an attack to vaporise people but you dont have to use it.
assuming your talking about the ferengi bar mission, then they attack you for trying to find faults in the bar. they start the fight but you dont have to kill them.
As far as IP goes, I am sure this could be easily accommodated. Think about the number of holo-novels we witnessed in Voyager and other series. It would just have to be made clear that the character was playing a holo-novel, not doing a real mission.
As far as experience granted for this, I don't know. It would be too easy to manipulate to create easy xp missions. Perhaps they could grant marks of exploration or similar rewards instead, or a very low experience reward.
Alternately, and I am pretty sure cryptic doesn't have this kind of free time, individual episodes could be approved for experience awards, and perhaps taken into the regular game, with the creator gaining a significant reward for his quest being selected.
why do you assume the phasers are set to kill, why cant they be set to stun? yes there is an attack to vaporise people but you dont have to use it.
assuming your talking about the ferengi bar mission, then they attack you for trying to find faults in the bar. they start the fight but you dont have to kill them.
It's a whole other debate, sorry. In a different thread I would say more. Point is, I don't really see much proof that CBS is monitoring the canon, quality, or content of the game. I'm sure they had to greenlight many things, but there is much breathing room.
If user-generated content went through an approval process or became part of fictional holodeck contexts, then there wouldn't be anything to worry about.
As far as IP goes, I am sure this could be easily accommodated. Think about the number of holo-novels we witnessed in Voyager and other series. It would just have to be made clear that the character was playing a holo-novel, not doing a real mission.
As far as experience granted for this, I don't know. It would be too easy to manipulate to create easy xp missions. Perhaps they could grant marks of exploration or similar rewards instead, or a very low experience reward.
Alternately, and I am pretty sure cryptic doesn't have this kind of free time, individual episodes could be approved for experience awards, and perhaps taken into the regular game, with the creator gaining a significant reward for his quest being selected.
Just an idea.
I like the idea of holonovels, etc.
The potential for exploiting exp points could be dealt with quite easily, I think. Besides, as the game is right now, I can log into pvp and just leave my comp to get experience points.
THe Holodeck eposides in TNG constantly brake canon, but holodeck with user content is canon. The crew was always making things that where off the wall, like historical simulations and out character renditions of crew.
I really expected that Cryptic would be adding the Holodeck for user created option, so see they are not planning to do such, is very disappointing.
AE is one of my favorite things to do in CoH, both making missions and playing others. Many of them were very well done.
Yes, and for the most part, Paramount and CBS have tolerated and even encouraged it. It's only when people try to do it for profit when TPTB get upset.
Technically, they ignore as much as possible.
They like their fanbase and internally probably don't mind the fan fiction.
IP law as it is right now, however, demands that you protect your IP if you know about a violation.
The key bit is "know about a violation". If you can reasonably say you didn't know about it, you aren't penalized for not pursuing a violation.
So, they largely ignore fan works. They don't comment, they don't acknowledge. In the few cases they do recognize a fan work, it's usually accompanied by a behind the scenes limited license to cover the legal bits.
They do get ****ed off if you're making money off a violation, though.
Comments
And YES
I doubt it. I doubt CBS signed off every mission or piece of genesis content in the game, and if signposted as user-created I don't see where the issue would be.
I played that game for 4-5 years, and the architect and all it's powerleveling was instrumental in driving me away. I am aware that it was a highly requested feature, and made to appease the user base, or something like that. But personally think it detracted from other areas of the game, and was abused in the most extreme fashion, to blindly rush the advancement of characters.
In the end it was a gimmick far removed from real additions to the game, and not something I wanted to continue to support. But then again these are highly personal opinions, and all ideas have their worth no doubt.
---
If it ends up as you describe it then
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.........
The game needs a place where we can create real trek content. Not a cheats emporium......why play STO if you want to powerlevel. This game needs content.......it needs content content content. If the fans showed that they could create the sort of content that would fit in will with canon and the limitations that the engine sets then the devs could save them selves a WHOLE shed load of work.
Win win for all right there.
dont forget that city of is still realling from that disaster. they lost alot of players from it. my home server before was yellow before and during it. during peak, now it cant get past green and 750 people online.
i vote no for this to be added to sto.
however if it was set up well, and was carefully constructed so that people could create exciting missions then its not too bad.
the thing is sto is different to coh in the way its set up as the rewards for killing random enemies is very little, its the bonus at the end for completing the mission that helps to level you up.
coh creator basically just put loads of mobs on the map for tons of exp and just let 8 man group's farm them. sto is not set up like that so it wont be the same thing.
so as long as the rewards where not to easy to get for doing a couple of minutes work then it might help the game.
if they ever plan to put holodecks in the game then we might see something along these lines.
however as said because its star trek they probably wont let us create story content, and without that it would just end up like any other mission which would be boring.
This XP bonus doesn't apply to AE missions yet people are still farming AE missions exclusively and ignoring any other content because they can exploit it to get even more XP all year long. Finding a team doing something not-AE related in CoH is borderline impossible on most servers nowadays when it used to take a few minutes at most before the system was implemented.
99% of the content posted on the AE is farming missions with no plot or point, just big zones with tons of mobs to chain kill.
The AE destroyed CoH, let's not port it over here.
I want missions of exploration. I want first contact missions.
I want to seek out new life and new civilizations, not pew pew the ever lovin' snot out of Klingons. My friends feel the same way.
Giving us our own version of CoH's "Archetect Entertainment" would, in my opinion, add significant value to STO.
I don't buy this at all. Players of Star Trek: Elite Force could make their own maps all the time, from Simpson neighborhoods to Honey I Shrunk the Starfleet officers.
There was never any content/licensing issues when this other Trek game gave out tools for user-generated content. The big difference, I guess, is that the fan-made content was run on private servers.
I'm a bit miffed that they give xp for going through such content in CoH though, i think that's a big nono. by all means have user generated content but have it give you absolutely nothing but the enjoyment of playing through it.
Yes, I agree. The missions don't have to include drops, loot, or experience. If they are fun, then people will play, especially if the tools are good, allowing the creators to make the mission more like episodes of Star Trek.
Plus, it's like having a swarm of amateur devs working on the game for free. They could pick and choose what is or is not worthy.
It's a win win. Players get a continous stream of new content, while Cryptic doesn't have to invest time or people to create it, except for a few people to judge and implement the user-generated content.
Could not agree more.........Trek fan based content could be rubbish BUT I bet there are more than a few of us out there that understand the meaning of trek and could bring that out within the constraints of this game engine.
I can not see how cryptic could possibly justify not doing something like this considering the current state of the game.
I spent years making maps for Star Trek Elite Force. It was a ton of fun spending hours designing rooms and environments, experimenting with item placement, spawn points, and general gameplay.
The best reward for the time and effort was seeing players enjoy the maps and content. It was really challenging, especially because the tools were super complex and demanded a step learning curve. But, having challenging tools meant that I learned a ton more.
If you're interested, here were a few of my contributions to the game:
http://eliteforce2.filefront.com/file/Heretic;20941
http://eliteforce2.filefront.com/file/Anubis;68680
http://eliteforce2.filefront.com/file/Amenhotep;23319
1) Too many missions would be terrible junk stories
Have no fear ! Users created content comes with a rating system, search engine with keywords and usually the company doesn't have to check all the content. They may decide to check the best ones, selected by the players. I'm quite confident the community would rapidly make a website with the very top rating stories listed.
2) CBS would never allow such stories
Jack Emmert already said that they are planning to release a mission creator eventually for STO : I don't think he would say that if CBS wasn't ok with it.
3) User created content = farming, this almost destroyed COX
True, but there are many ways to prevent farming. For instance, you can limit the amount of XP earned by playing such missions and limit the rewards on a once a day basis : the first UCC you play will give you XP, but the other ones won't until tomorrow.
4) The community doesn't have to produce content for free, this is Cryptic's job !
Many trekkies love to write fanfics, some are excellent. I'd like to create stories myself, I find it a very fulfilling experience. Furthermore, this does not mean that Cryptic wouldn't work on content themselves. But imagine that they are working on a new faction, for instance Romulans, designing new ships, new skills, a new main PVE content. While you wait for this major expansion, it would be cool to find new stories to play for your admiral who is bored to days farming the same dailies over and over.
5) A story teller would allow things you'd never have
Imagine a team of 5 or 6 holonovelists working together on a full season, bringing you 24 interesting stories translated into the three languages of STO. One new episode a week, just as the TV show except that YOU are the hero. Frankly, isn't it worth it ? I know I would be delighted to work on such a project and trust me, I'm not alone.
Those were maps for a game that wasn't an MMO. Anything used in STO has to get approved by CBS first, devs have made that clear already, with CBS being so particular that even the text on the turbolifts has to be what CBS wants it to be, no exceptions. And you REALLY think user created content is going to get throught THAT process?
And, for the record, Jack never said they WOULD release the tools or they WOULD put in user created content, he said it's something they would LIKE to do, not something they are GOING to do.
Me, personally, having seen what user created content is like 99.9% of the time, I'm so NOT for this.
*edit*
An answer from Zinc in an interview just posted..
That extended approval process is CBS, and they are rather strict on what's allowed in the game, from the big stuff to the little stuff, you really think they'll be on board for user created content and the total non-IP fiasco THAT would entail? CoH and it's Architech system is one thing, there's no IP to be dealt with, but this IS STO and there is an IP, one who's controlling owner, CBS, is a nitpicker extraordinaire, NOT to mention all the legal ramifications of allowing user created content in such an iconic IP.
But I think what really sums it up, as far as Cryptic is concerned and this ever happening is the final sentence..
'But in a perfect world, it's something we'd love to do with all of our games.'
And we all know, it ain't a perfect world...
If they were so strict, do you really think we'd be killing civilians and babies in STO? From the typos in the dialogues to the lack of QA, it's clear that there is no one at CBS monitoring every mission that closely. Plus, in the context of a Holodeck, anything goes as far as user-generated content.
I would suspect that many fan-made missions would be a lot closer to the Trek that CBS protects than many of the missions that Crptic made.
A game is not canon. Different rules apply. CBS is not a canon police force when it comes to games.
Yes, and for the most part, Paramount and CBS have tolerated and even encouraged it. It's only when people try to do it for profit when TPTB get upset.
why do you assume the phasers are set to kill, why cant they be set to stun? yes there is an attack to vaporise people but you dont have to use it.
assuming your talking about the ferengi bar mission, then they attack you for trying to find faults in the bar. they start the fight but you dont have to kill them.
As far as experience granted for this, I don't know. It would be too easy to manipulate to create easy xp missions. Perhaps they could grant marks of exploration or similar rewards instead, or a very low experience reward.
Alternately, and I am pretty sure cryptic doesn't have this kind of free time, individual episodes could be approved for experience awards, and perhaps taken into the regular game, with the creator gaining a significant reward for his quest being selected.
Just an idea.
It's a whole other debate, sorry. In a different thread I would say more. Point is, I don't really see much proof that CBS is monitoring the canon, quality, or content of the game. I'm sure they had to greenlight many things, but there is much breathing room.
If user-generated content went through an approval process or became part of fictional holodeck contexts, then there wouldn't be anything to worry about.
I like the idea of holonovels, etc.
The potential for exploiting exp points could be dealt with quite easily, I think. Besides, as the game is right now, I can log into pvp and just leave my comp to get experience points.
I really expected that Cryptic would be adding the Holodeck for user created option, so see they are not planning to do such, is very disappointing.
AE is one of my favorite things to do in CoH, both making missions and playing others. Many of them were very well done.
Just don't give XP, BO points or anything for holodeck missions.
/signed
Technically, they ignore as much as possible.
They like their fanbase and internally probably don't mind the fan fiction.
IP law as it is right now, however, demands that you protect your IP if you know about a violation.
The key bit is "know about a violation". If you can reasonably say you didn't know about it, you aren't penalized for not pursuing a violation.
So, they largely ignore fan works. They don't comment, they don't acknowledge. In the few cases they do recognize a fan work, it's usually accompanied by a behind the scenes limited license to cover the legal bits.
They do get ****ed off if you're making money off a violation, though.
-np