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Interesting cannon changes coming...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
A few of the changes of the latest patch on tribble..

Cannons

* There are no longer any firing restrictions on cannons. (Removed shared cooldown)
* Weapon power costs now show in weapon tooltips.

* Increased DHC cost from 5 to 12 power.
* Increased DC cost from 5 to 8 power.
* Increased SC cost from 5 to 6 power.
* Reduced Turret cost from 5 to 4 power.


Rapid Fire

* Rescaled Rapid Fire damage. Previously, all ranks of Rapid Fire were behaving as if they were Rapid Fire 3.
* Rapid Fire was applying extra damage to Single Cannons, Turrets and Dual Cannons. Dual Heavy Cannons were behaving properly, so all cannons now receive an equivalent boost to Dual Heavy Cannons.

Combined, those two changes above mean Rapid Fire now scales from 30% DPS increase to 40% then 50% for tier 3. Previously, it was 48% for Dual Heavy Cannons and 68% for everything else.

Dual Heavy Cannons
Now come with an innate 10% critical severity bonus.



So rapid fire has been bugged all this time.... interesting :)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    looks like I gotta go buy some mkX phaser heavy dual cannons of the exchange (god damn those are expensive)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Dont think they are worth it with the drain. What tenikis didnt write is, that EPS consoles have been nerfed to 1.5 with mk X.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I understand the EPS nerf, but this pigeon-holes console choice more than anything. Drop the console to 2.5 maybe and then have harsh diminishing returns on additional consoles. If I can get back to +4.5 power and still spam my energy weapons why pick something else?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Without the energy the combat will be a bit slower, and the CCs less powerfull. I like it tbh.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    Without the energy the combat will be a bit slower, and the CCs less powerfull. I like it tbh.

    well, your still going to have just as powerful CCs, it will just take 5 seconds to get to 100 aux as opposed to 3 seconds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    No i meant that with less dps, you will surive longer. But anyway, attack pattern beta was improved what i could see (2x).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    No i meant that with less dps, you will surive longer. But anyway, attack pattern beta was improved what i could see (2x).

    this is going to jumble up my skill selection on my escort quite a bit tbh.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    faithborn wrote:
    this is going to jumble up my skill selection on my escort quite a bit tbh.

    It fits in my latest build, so i aint worried. Im a beam heretic, and im using 2 normal cannons lately :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    whats certain though, is that battle cruiser DPS is going to be hurting after this goes live. Also BOP will lose damage for their utility or utility for their damage. I like this change, since it nerfs RF 1 and 2 but leaves 3 alone. People will actually have to have OR eat their cake, but not both.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I will still keep my lovely dispersal pattern, so it doesnt change much for me. But still the overall EPS nerf will be interesting, especialy for cruisers...there will be less beam boats, and more turrets boats...and even with quantuns getting +200 dmg, they wont still be overused.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I knew I made the developer supported choice when I stacked mostly turrets on my boat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    tenikis wrote: »
    A few of the changes of the latest patch on tribble..

    Cannons

    * There are no longer any firing restrictions on cannons. (Removed shared cooldown)
    * Weapon power costs now show in weapon tooltips.

    * Increased DHC cost from 5 to 12 power.
    * Increased DC cost from 5 to 8 power.
    * Increased SC cost from 5 to 6 power.
    * Reduced Turret cost from 5 to 4 power.


    Rapid Fire

    * Rescaled Rapid Fire damage. Previously, all ranks of Rapid Fire were behaving as if they were Rapid Fire 3.
    * Rapid Fire was applying extra damage to Single Cannons, Turrets and Dual Cannons. Dual Heavy Cannons were behaving properly, so all cannons now receive an equivalent boost to Dual Heavy Cannons.

    Combined, those two changes above mean Rapid Fire now scales from 30% DPS increase to 40% then 50% for tier 3. Previously, it was 48% for Dual Heavy Cannons and 68% for everything else.

    Dual Heavy Cannons
    Now come with an innate 10% critical severity bonus.



    So rapid fire has been bugged all this time.... interesting :)

    Wow.. just... wow.

    I always figured that Rapid Fire was a bit much, and some tests weeks ago confirmed that regular dual were outperforming DHC, hinting to something amiss, but I wonder how this is gonna affect BoPs and escorts? They're already kinda squishy, and time on target it gettin shorter.

    Then again, when I think about it, I always had problems with some other cannon jockey ripping me a new one in my BoP and escort, so.. meh. Gots to check this out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    Without the energy the combat will be a bit slower, and the CCs less powerfull. I like it tbh.

    what are you smoking? The CC's will be stronger, especially energy draining ones that are already pretty destructive. I do like they are trying to scale back some of the damage though, slower = better
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I knew I made the developer supported choice when I stacked mostly turrets on my boat.

    I'm curious, how do you see this as a good change for you?

    I use several turrets on my cruiser and as far as I'm concerned this is most likely going to completely kill my build since the only time turrets really do much damage is when used in combination with Rapid Fire, and that damage boost is going to be cut from the current 68% down to 30%.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Enjoy the damage while you have it.

    Turrets should not be all powerful and it is a bug and not a nerf.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Like I've been telling people basically since release - Rapid Fire is ridiculous. Apparently that is at least partially due to a bug rather than design; glad to see some changes on the way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Aww I liked the rear turret dps with RF, maybe attack pattern beta could be better on my RSV now though. Hating the eps nerf though, k so turret energy cost is down but this could be annoying using aux sci powers(excepting the uber ones where it's worth it anyway).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I've played on Tribble with my Fleet Escort, the drain isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

    I use 2 Dual Heavy Cannons, 1 Dual Beam Bank, and 1 Torpedo Launcher fore. 3 Turrets aft. All energy weapons on auto-fire. 2 Mk X EPS Regulators (now +1.5 transfer, down from +3). From 115 Weapon Power (Escort Bonus +Efficient Impulse Engines. The bonus from Weapons Performance seems to not be working, I should be at 124.) And the lowest average I dropped to was 86.

    Are we going to see a metagame shift? Yes. Maxing out Starship Attack Vectors gives you an extra 3% chance to land a critical hit, so this skill favors the new bonus that Dual Heavy cannons get (+10 Critcal Severity). Not using this will favor Dual Cannons for captains that use Escorts or KDF ships that want 900 skill points somewhere else. The 3 DHC build may be better off now by swapping out a DHC for a DC or a single Cannon, time will tell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I've played on Tribble with my Fleet Escort, the drain isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

    I use 2 Dual Heavy Cannons, 1 Dual Beam Bank, and 1 Torpedo Launcher fore. 3 Turrets aft. All energy weapons on auto-fire. 2 Mk X EPS Regulators (now +1.5 transfer, down from +3). From 115 Weapon Power (Escort Bonus +Efficient Impulse Engines. The bonus from Weapons Performance seems to not be working, I should be at 124.) And the lowest average I dropped to was 86.

    Are we going to see a metagame shift? Yes. Maxing out Starship Attack Vectors gives you an extra 3% chance to land a critical hit, so this skill favors the new bonus that Dual Heavy cannons get (+10 Critcal Severity). Not using this will favor Dual Cannons for captains that use Escorts or KDF ships that want 900 skill points somewhere else. The 3 DHC build may be better off now by swapping out a DHC for a DC or a single Cannon, time will tell.

    drains not the issue, its the change in CRF. In order to keep the same DPS up a BoP must sacrifice its highest utility slot and a Klink carrier... Well lets just say they're not going to be topping the charts anymore.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well, as a BoP captain, I would have to make the choice between RF3 or VM2. If I take RF3, that's one less VM user for Starfleet to cry about. But considering how useful of a punishment VM is...

    I have a gut feeling that the metagame will still favor a TRIBBLE/TRIBBLE/FBP2/VM2/3 Science Officer in the commander slot and a HY1/RF1/APO1 Tactical Officer in the Lt. Commander slot for T5 BoPs.

    Really just need more people on Tribble to test this stuff out with a fresh character.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    In order to keep the same DPS up a BoP must sacrifice its highest utility slot
    You mean a support ship won't be able to do the same damage as an Escort? Say it isn't so!
    and a Klink carrier... Well lets just say they're not going to be topping the charts anymore.
    If Carriers were "always" top damage, that would highlight a gross game imbalance - should only one faction have access to the "best" damage output, but their opponents not have the same type of advantage in healing? Not to mention the imbalances that would cause within the Klingon faction itself - why play in a Raptor when a Carrier has better damage and more survivability?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Wheem wrote: »
    You mean a support ship won't be able to do the same damage as an Escort? Say it isn't so!


    If Carriers were "always" top damage, that would highlight a gross game imbalance - should only one faction have access to the "best" damage output, but their opponents not have the same type of advantage in healing? Not to mention the imbalances that would cause within the Klingon faction itself - why play in a Raptor when a Carrier has better damage and more survivability?

    uh ya, no carrier using turrets will ever be close to top damage against competent players
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    2 things, I meant cruiser not carrier, my mistake. And i'm not complaining about it, just stating whats going to happen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'm wondering if this is going to reintroduce the bug of cannons interrupting each other. Before the cooldown, 2 cannons actually averaged out to be about 1 and 1/4 cannons because the second cannon would interrupt the first cannon's fire, so you'd get 5 or rarely 6 shots instead of 8 from 2 sets of cannons if you hit spacebar to fire all. If I wasn't so sick this week, I'd test it out on Tribble.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    With nerf of EPS consoles, i will just run 4 EPS instead of 2 now. Not switching fast is the most annoying thing in this game, makes it slow. And 50% nerf? I didnt see complaints about EPS, maybe they should nerf FBP to 50% and sub 50% atleast people agree with that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Indolo wrote:
    I'm wondering if this is going to reintroduce the bug of cannons interrupting each other. Before the cooldown, 2 cannons actually averaged out to be about 1 and 1/4 cannons because the second cannon would interrupt the first cannon's fire, so you'd get 5 or rarely 6 shots instead of 8 from 2 sets of cannons if you hit spacebar to fire all. If I wasn't so sick this week, I'd test it out on Tribble.

    Been on there testing things earlier and that seems to work fine now, even in rapid fire mode. Also 3 DHC works properly now to which is quite nice, although the power drain is very apparent with the new nerfs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    zenixzor wrote:
    With nerf of EPS consoles, i will just run 4 EPS instead of 2 now. Not switching fast is the most annoying thing in this game, makes it slow. And 50% nerf? I didnt see complaints about EPS, maybe they should nerf FBP to 50% and sub 50% atleast people agree with that.

    Its a good choice I think, it will lower DPS all round and slow things down a little. Of course if you double up your consoles you will get the same power as before but will gimp yourself in another area that you were previously buffing. I personally like my +22% all round damage resistance so I will take the 50% power hit :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    tenikis wrote: »
    Its a good choice I think, it will lower DPS all round and slow things down a little. Of course if you double up your consoles you will get the same power as before but will gimp yourself in another area that you were previously buffing. I personally like my +22% all round damage resistance so I will take the 50% power hit :)

    When i increase weapon power performance i get the same result as i got now 2x +6 weapon power. Resist is nice but i tried it myself and it feels kinda useless. Hazard emitters + aux to struc s alot more effective in that area, shields are the most important anyway if they are completly down you wont survive much longer even with high resistance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Anyone managed to work up an idea of how we should set up our Escorts with these changes? Will it make cannon choices more versatile? Such as being able to have a huge pile of single cannons instead of any duals, because they're easier to power?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Its still up to you how to fit your escort. But the common aproach park and shoot wont work much. You will actualy have to fly around and dual cannons will be burst weapons as they were meant to.
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