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I don't remember Kirk crying about cloak.
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http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6853/kirk.png
Have it say:
"CLOAK"
"Feds don't have it."
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2850/kirkdemot.png
Honor is victory and glory. The cloak enables the Klingons a chance to achieve that. Whether they do it in traditional fleet engagements, or with Birds of Prey doing long range raiding missions deep in enemy territory (think of destroying freighters and civillian shipping, or vulnerable military units).
If it allows the Empire's ships to engage at will, disengage via speed and cloaking, and later re-engage to constantly harass the enemy and wear them down, so be it. If it allows the warrior to surprise the enemy and hit them at their most vulnerable points at their time of choosing for the best chance of success, so be it. The warriors that pull it off would gain alot of success, and with success, honor to their house.
Dishonor is showing no willingness to fight, or worse, utter incompetence.
A good example of real, historical "honor" for warriors are the Samurai of Feudal Japan. Everybody seems to have this ideal that the Samurai will always seek to fight a "fair fight" in your face. But if you know anything about Samurai, they were NOT like that during alot of their fighting history. Ambushes, deceptions, shifting alliances, betrayals, etc. Only during the peaceful period after the Warring States era and the advent of the Tokugawa Shogunate did you really start seeing these stupid ideals of Samurai fighting on equal terms and with no deception or dirty tricks. But in the days when they really fought, almost anything went. What mattered the most was victory.
There is no honor in whining you are right. Therefore 95% of KDF are honorless dogs.
Relating Klingon to Samurai is pretty far off. I'm sure I don't have to go through all this, but the Samurai did not make up an entire culture or society, they coexisted along with all the other Japanese people. If you are going to relate the Klingon to anything it would most likely be the ancient Greek Spartan society. Klingon in the various shows have always said 'Death before dishonor.' The 'type of honor' you are referring to about the Samurai is hardly the same as the Klingon. Klingon fight to show dominance, they do not use deception or trickery to gain political power. They have always had the mindset of you are going to die or I am, and that running is not an option.
My post is pretty irrelevant to the game, however Klingon ships having battle cloaking abilities does go against their culture.
This is where you are VERY wrong.
Kahless has a story that tells this tale , I forget where its from a book? one of the shows? not sure but here is the story.
A huge storm was coming which is nothing big on Qo'nos but this storm was stronger than most , kahless was a teen at the time I think he seen this klingon with his sword standing out in the wind , he told the klingon what are you doing come in from the strom. the man said "I am sick of these stroms im going teach them to respect me"kahless went inside with the others , the next day the klingon was dead outside.........a kahless spoke these mighty words.
"Stroms do not respect a fool"
Now I might have got some of this wrong because I just read it from in game text from one of the lore keepers outside of Qo'nos, but I think the story speaks for itself , die with honor but not as a fool , only a fool would not run from 10 fedration ships.
Here is the real story guess it was from TNG , you see the point kahless is making tho right?
but then this game has never been even remotely accurate to star trek combat wise, as it stands cloaking is more of a liability then a good thing, people not coming out of cloak to help win a fight can cost the battle.
people cloak and afk to mooch
all in all, too many people cry about something they dont even understand, and its just irritating.
Ex. Klingons are a cast based system, Warriors, Scientist/Medics, Workers, Non-Klingons and finally outcasts/those deemed w/out Honor.
The code of the Klingons is again, loosely based on Bushido, the tactics actually seem to incorporate more of a Ninja mindset than a Samurai. That being said, honor was everything to both a Samuai and a Ninja.
One could also view thier society as Roman or Greek, being that they were dominated by one caste over another. (which most ancient civilzations were) However, the political side of Klingon society, is purely based upon Roman Councils structure (also as was the Romulans)
Now, as to a cloaking device being cowardly... no. What one does with it may/may not be concidered cowardly.
Attack unarmed civilians, yes, that is an honorless act. Attacking an enemy unawares and recloaking before they realize what hit them, no. That is usage of a weapon of war, to take advantage of foe. It not the Klingon's fault the enemy was unprepared for such an attack, nor was it thier fault the enemy didn't have the technology/means to detect such an impending attack, before it happened.
(basically this was no different that WWII British pilots using the sun as a means of "cloak" during dogfights or egression to combat during the air battles over Britain vs the ME109. It simply using all the abilities one has to take advantage of a fight, and dictate terms to opponent. If one cannot adapt, one will always lose.
Now, in more closely resemblance of the samurai would be the Jem'Hadar. Lighting fast attacks, aimed to quicky and efficiently kill one's enemy. Victory is Life, and the belief that before battle, they state " I am X, and I am dead " as well as how they viewed the Vorta, and Founders. If they were told to go die, they did just that. If they disobeyed, they died.
One last note, Klingons frowned and even spurned those who died in vane. Quite a few episodes where they laughed and even disgraces another klingon who died as a fool. (TNG/DS9) As well during the Dominon/Federation/Cardassian War in DS9, Mar'tok explaining to Sisko, I will NOT allow my warriors to a needless death, or in vane. It is one thing, when the Dahar Master sacrificed his ship and crew, to allow the rest to escape, than to knowingly engage a futile battle for no benefit at all. ( Waste in Klingon society is bad juju)
Nice job. I probably could have come up with something more witty though. That was just off the top of my head. Maybe:
"JEALOUSY"
"They can cloak."
"ENVY"
"Klingons can cloak, but we can't"
Maybe, but 100% of the feds are.
Here's my attempt:
http://i45.tinypic.com/f0srhe.jpg
"Do not use deception or trickery to gain political power."...?
Then you haven't watched Star Trek, esp. TNG. Re. Chancellor-ship, succcession, and most esp. House of Duras, and alot of Klingon oriented story arcs.
Another example of the Klingons using cloaks to achieve victory is an episode in DS9, "Once More Unto The Breach" I believe it was, Kor's last episode.
Gen.Martok implements a plan where several BoP's are to strike at a Cardassian planeta based station. 2 BOP's decloak, do a devastating surprise attack, and get out of town. The Cardassians send repair teams out. Once they're fully out there doing their jobs, THEN Martok's main BoP group decloaks and attacks, causing even more damage and casualties, since the Cardassians expected the Klingons to have left already. An excellent example of Klingon cloak use and quick, surprise attacks to catch the enemy off balance and unaware.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G2Gz86ulOU
From 7:15 onwards. Just because they do it, doesn't make it honourable.
AKA, I'm afraid to post my "insult" there beause I'm afraid of a confrontation. Pretty honorable! :rolleyes:
I knew my post was going to be misinterpreted. I never said cloaking is 'trickery and deception.' I was making the point that the Klingon government is not comparable to the politics of fuedal japan.
In addition, even if it occurred in the TNG it doesn't matter. The idea of cloaking for defensive purposes still goes against Klingon culture, which is rarely (if at all) what they use it for in the shows.
Birds of Prey. Negv'har Cruiser. Vorcha Cruiser. Ships of varying sizes and roles, all capable of Cloaking technology.
Even in Kirk's era, the Bird of Prey operated with such devices. Gen.Chang, an important figure in the Klingon military sported a unique BoP that could attack while cloaked. Chang took on the Enterprise and Excelsior and he would have preferred to attack and destroy them while still cloaked, but of course it didn't turn out that way.
Back again to Picard's era... we see the Dominion War and heavy, heavy use of Cloaking technology with the Klingons, Romulans, and the unique Defiant. In the Starfleet drive to retake DS9, the Klingons were absent when the massive fleet engagement began. But the Klingons DID arrive later on. The Klingon fleet comes out of cloak from the Dominion's right flank and rips into them, opening the way for Sisko and the Defiant to head straight to DS9.
This and on top of the good example I provided with Gen.Martok and his BoP strike.
These are main line leaders in the Klingon military. The Klingons freely use Cloaking technology in their warfighting. Martok did not mind using the technology to his advantage, and he is considered a great leader. Chang did not mind using it, and was a key figure in the military, and probably would like to have used it more. Chancellor Gowron, the leader of the Klingon Empire and as chancellor, the face of the Empire, had no qualms about using Cloaks when he took his fleet out of DS9 to invade Cardassia.
I've shown examples in various Star Trek shows where the Klingons have no qualms about using Cloaking technology. I have not seen any episodes / movies where the Klingons looked down on Cloaking technology. What does that have to do with Klingons using Cloaking technology? And what does it have to do with Cloaks being considered an honorable or dishonorable weapon of war? Your example talks about corrupt individuals in the higher rankings of the Klingon government.
An as far as I know, there is honor, as long as there is a fight. If you attack after decloak, there is a fight. If the target isn't able to fire back, it's not your fault, as long as the target has weapons to use.
It's not honorable to poison someone and watch him die. It's not honorable to attack an unarmed. And it's also not honorable to attack someone, who gives up.
And I think, the Klingons see a "hunt like a wolf" (I don't know if there exists an english word for this...) as not honorable but a "hunt like a cat". If somone knows german, perhaps he/she can translate it better: "Hetzjagd" and "Schleichjagd"
A cloaked attack is like a "Schleichjagd". A quick, surprising attack.
Just a quick correction, in the words of then-Admiral Kirk: "Klingons don't take prisoners" :cool:
Indeed. What are you going to do with 1014 guys when you're piloting a bird of prey lol.
There was a TNG episode where the USS Pegasus was the testbed of a highly advanced "Transphasic Cloak." Not only was it supposed to keep the ship cloaked from sensors as usual, but it allowed the ship to pass through solid objects. But a malfunction wrecked the ship and killed the crew. The Enterprise investigated and discovered the wreck, found the cause, and Picard was shocked that there was an element in the Federation even working on the cloak. For the Federation to even consider working on one would be a breach of treaty with a number of major powers in the quadrant, namely Romulans and Klingons.
The Federation traditionally has been all about honoring its agreements. You get that vibe ever since Kirk's era, and most definitely in Picard's era. Very important for them to keep to their word, since that is exactly how the Federation got its powerbase... from diplomacy and sticking to their word. Nobody would be joining the Federation if its members were regularly getting screwed.