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Newb Question: What Kind of Weapons on Science Ships??

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in The Academy
Hello, i've been around for a little while now, with 2 lv 7 characters, but not much else to show for it :D
Anyways, im currently playing with my lv7 science officer, and yeah, i intend to use science ships in the future once i get my promotions to higher ranks.

The question is, ofcourse as the title suggests; what kind of weapons to use on a science ship?Cannons are out of the question i bet, as i can tell that they are either reserved to Klingon ships or starfleet tactical escorts,

and this leaves us with,,, torpedos, mines, phasers(and such) and turrets.

Im interested in having turrets on the back slots of my ship (mostly) while front slots are equipped with a combination of phasers variants and torpedoes,, but im not sure!

i heard of some peeps use the ''2 beam, 2 turret, 2 torp setup'' on their Trident class ships (deep space science vessel) and that sounds like AN AWESOME SETUP to me, ROLEPLAYING WISE, but is it actually any effective in-game or should i narrow it down somehow?

Thank you for ur time.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    There is no best weapon configuration. It's all down to your personal preferences and playstyle. Pick what works best for you.

    Phasers are a particular damage type, not a weapon type. I assume you're talking about beam weapons.

    There are two kinds. Beam Arrays are the ones you usually get, they have the wide arcs. These can be equipped in front and rear slots.

    Dual Beams have higher damage but narrower firing arcs ... essentially they have cannon damage and arcs, except, well, they're beams. These can only be equipped in front slots.

    If you're talking about putting turrets in your rear slots, I assume your preference is to keep the front of your ship towards the enemy. If that's the case, you might want to consider Dual Beams over Beam Arrays.

    Now, it's entirely possible to run a ship without projectile weapons, just energy weapons - if you do that you'll need a lot of EPS engineering consoles, but it can work. Personally I'd still carry at least one torpedo, though.

    My preference is to have one torpedo in front and one in the rear, but you can double up torpedoes on a single arc. Firing one will impose a global cooldown period on other torpedoes. There's not much point with photons, but if you're using quantums or some other torpedo type with a long innate cooldown, then it might be desirable to have two torp launchers in the same arc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    If you're using a science vessel, chances are you have a few powers (I know I do!) that require the target to be in a 90 degree targeting arc in front of you. In that case, I recommend (and agree with the guy above me) that you want dual beam banks, as you're going to be trying to keep your target there anyway. Might as well nix the extra arc and gain the extra damage. I also have a forward torp launcher equipped.

    Now on the rear of my science vessel, instead of having turrets in my rear slots, i have beam arrays. No, I cannot fire forward with them, but they're good for switching targets or on the rare occasion that an enemy does manage to get out of my forward targeting arc.

    You're lvl 7, so I your next ship is the standard T2 science vessel. My loadout for that was 2 dual phaser beam banks in the front and a quantum mine launcher in the rear. Don't use mines, they're terrible. I did decently with that loadout but I like my current one better.

    In my T3 research science vessel, I have 2 dual tetryon beam banks and a chroniton torpedo launcher in the fore slots and 2 tetryon beam arrays in the rear slot. Right now, tetryon weapons are not available to you, nor are chronitons. I decided to give them both a try (since most of my characters use the Fed standard of Phasers and Quantums/Photons and I wouldn't have it any other way :p) but Tetryon weapons have a chance to do extra damage to shields (and I use tachyon beam III, so you can see I like it when shields are down) and chroniton torpedoes have a chance to slow the enemy.

    The actual damage types I just gave you are not my main point. The weapons types, however, are. I am highly successful with a forward torp launcher and 2 dual beam banks with 2 beam arrays in the rear. High Yield Torp I and Beam Overload II also contribute to my success. I highly recommend that loadout (or a level specific variation :D)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Disclaimer, this is my point of view, milage may vary.

    At ranks below commander, the type of weapon doesn't really matter as far as taking advantage of your skills. Until you reach commander, most weapons you will find/use will be phasers or disruptors. Each do a different type of damage. I usually mixed the two on my science ships.

    Disrupters have more bleed-through than phasers and do more hull damage when shields are down.

    Phasers have the advantage of a small chance of disabling a ship's sub-system. Added your target sub-system abilities, you have a chance to drop a target's shield or other system.

    Always have a target sub-system running while in combat. Sometimes the shields will drop in the beginning of a fight, then if you can react quickly with a high yield torpedo, the target is now debris.

    Torpedos are more of a choice. You want to pay close attention to the cool downs and the speed the torpedo travels. Photons are the fastest, plasma are the slowest. The trick to torpedo use is to fire them so they hit the target while the facing shield is down. Otherwise they aren't very effective vs the cool down they have. Once you get to Lt Commander, you should have installed a torpedo launcher in the front and rear slots.

    Are you planning a healer type ship progression or a buff/de-buffer? Look at the whole skill chart to aid you in your choice. Put skill into beam weapons.

    Mines are a waste of a slot. They are like torpedos that don't move unless the enemy is in range. If the target has shields up, damage will be minimal.

    Generally, as a science ship, you want to concentrate on either helping your team-mates survive or taking down the shields of a target as quickly as possible, while hindering the target's ability to hurt you and your team.

    A strategy I found effective on medium and large ships is to broadside beam weapons until shield ls low, turn in to the target and fire tetryon beam, activate high yield torpedo, fire the torpedos once the shield drops, hard turn and fire another torpedo from my rear launcher. Other things to add to the mix would be tractor beam to prevent the target from turning or moving and jam sensors to prevent the target from firing as I made the run.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kitsume wrote:
    Disrupters have more bleed-through than phasers and do more hull damage when shields are down.

    I'm pretty sure that this is wrong. All beam weapons do equal damage, the only difference is what their % chance gives. Phasers, like you said, have a 2.5% chance to disable a random subsystem. Disruptors give a 2.5% chance to give a 10% DR debuff to the enemy for 15 seconds.


    Quoted from Suricata's Ship Tier Chart topic:

    "There are a few types of beams/cannons in the game, they all do similar damage, however, different beams have different secondary side effects (the % chance changes with the lvl of the ietms):-

    Phasers - % chance to disable a random subsystem
    Disruptors - % chance lowers enemies damage resistance
    Plasma Beams - % chance to apply plasma DoT
    Tetryon Beams - % chance to do more damage to shields
    Poleron Beams - % chance to reduce enemy subsystem ratings by 25
    Anti-Proton - Bonus crit damage"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yeah, you're right.

    It can do a damage debuff. While debuffed, the shields don't block as much damage, I believe. I think I just over simplified it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I've flown a science ship in every tier, except Rear Admiral since I'm still a captain, and I really like having a turret in the rear arc. So many of the science officer abilities have a 90 degree arc that being able to pump the extra dps forward helps a lot in my opinion. My turret science ship I'm using 2 beam arrays, and a torpedo launcher in the front, and 2 turrets and 1 beam array in the back.

    I tried a dual beam bank in the front but the few extra dps was less useful to me. I fly straight at an enemy and use tachyon, and target shield subsystems, hit torpedo high yield and wait for my beams and turrets to finish off the forward shield and then fire my torpedo. Dual beams works great on the first guy, it's his 2+ buddies that just turned to one side or the other that it becomes less useful. Maneuvering back around to follow them and keep them in that 90 degree arc becomes more of a pain so I just go with the massive arc of the beam arrays and turrets so no matter how maneuverable they are they are getting hit a lot. If the dual beam isn't hitting them it's not doing any dps.

    But that's just my personal experience and tactics, one of my best friends in the game flies a science ship and handles it completely different and hates tachyon beam. I hate mines, another friend loves them, so it's a trial and error to find what you prefer the most.

    My only suggestion for science ships is Emergency Power to Shields, and Science Team are a must. If you lose shields the enemy will eat your hull for breakfast.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'm in love with 2 dual beams up front with a torp. And in back I use 2 regular beams and another Torp (going to put a tricolbalt here soon).

    Beam overload, tractor beam, and High yield torp 2 give a decent burst through shields.

    Then Science Team 2, two Hazard emitter 1, Viral Matrix 3, Scramble Sensors 2, engineering team 2, and emergency power to shields 1.

    Haven't met anything in PVE i couldn't kill.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Focalor wrote:
    Hello, i've been around for a little while now, with 2 lv 7 characters, but not much else to show for it :D
    Anyways, im currently playing with my lv7 science officer, and yeah, i intend to use science ships in the future once i get my promotions to higher ranks.

    The question is, ofcourse as the title suggests; what kind of weapons to use on a science ship?Cannons are out of the question i bet, as i can tell that they are either reserved to Klingon ships or starfleet tactical escorts,

    and this leaves us with,,, torpedos, mines, phasers(and such) and turrets.

    Im interested in having turrets on the back slots of my ship (mostly) while front slots are equipped with a combination of phasers variants and torpedoes,, but im not sure!

    i heard of some peeps use the ''2 beam, 2 turret, 2 torp setup'' on their Trident class ships (deep space science vessel) and that sounds like AN AWESOME SETUP to me, ROLEPLAYING WISE, but is it actually any effective in-game or should i narrow it down somehow?

    Thank you for ur time.

    You should experiment with different setups and discover for yourself what works best for you. There is no best setup and just about any arrangement will work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kitsume wrote:
    Mines are a waste of a slot. They are like torpedos that don't move unless the enemy is in range. If the target has shields up, damage will be minimal.

    I've been getting great use out of a rear-mounted mine launcher. My science vessel is maneuverable enough to lure the enemies into my mines as I'm taking down their shields, resulting in some nice hull damage to the enemies. Probably wouldn't work very well in PvP, but I stick to PvE, where the enemy ships typically like to move in close. Unlike my escorts, my science vessel wasn't getting enough use out of a rear-mounted torpedo launcher, and I don't want too many beam arrays sucking up my power.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I have 2 forward and 2 aft slots on the Amaranth-A. I have a beam and a torp each front and aft.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mirai wrote: »
    I've been getting great use out of a rear-mounted mine launcher. My science vessel is maneuverable enough to lure the enemies into my mines as I'm taking down their shields, resulting in some nice hull damage to the enemies. Probably wouldn't work very well in PvP, but I stick to PvE, where the enemy ships typically like to move in close. Unlike my escorts, my science vessel wasn't getting enough use out of a rear-mounted torpedo launcher, and I don't want too many beam arrays sucking up my power.

    That is exactly why you should try out differnt weapons for yourself. Personally mine launchers are pretty sucky for me but I have seen other players in fleet actions use them to great effect.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Stevia wrote:
    I have 2 forward and 2 aft slots on the Amaranth-A. I have a beam and a torp each front and aft.

    Thats perfect for the style of play where you make runs at your target. Personally I prefer the circling style and an Aft Torpedo never gets fired.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Personally I would use an equal number of beam arrays and torps in the front, and if you have an odd number of slots, then give the odd slot to a beam. In back I use turrets. Your mileage may vary.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    So far as a Lt Cdr in a Nova, I'm very fond of Mk IV Plasma array, and Plasma launcher fore, 2 plasma array's rear set up. Add this to the tactical console + damage to Plas weapons( name escapes me currently ), and you have a bonus win. The console pumps all weapons damage up, and thus far I haven't had too much an issue by adding a weapon batt in the device slot when needed.

    Not to mention with High yeild it's very satisfying to dump a heavy plasma torp into an open shield. Thus far my max damage has been 6970 vs a NPC battleship. Not to shabby as a LCDR 5

    A fleet mate has Quantum mines as a rear on his tier 3 sci ship, and is pleased with their performance. But he an I seem to be focused on different paths, he's a heal, and I a de-buff.

    So your play style, and skill progression has a large factor in what works best for you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I haven't read through all the replies, so forgive me if this overlaps with them. I'm sure there's a lot of good advice here.

    My thinking is that for energy weapons, you'll probably want to stick with phasers or disruptors (though the thought of disruptors on a fed ship gets under my Trekkie skin), since they're simply the cheapest to skill up. All of the energy types for the same DPS and only the procs differ.

    What arrangement of weapons you'll want to use will largley depend on your style and tactics. Once you hit Captain, your science ship will have 6 weapons, and it will stay the same in Admiral, so you can experiment with loadouts quite a bit while still leveling.

    I did this for a while: Fore: 1 dual bank, 1 array, 1 torp, and Aft: 1 array, 1 turret, 1 torp. The benefit of this loadout is that it's not highly reliant on EPS consoles, since you only have up to 3 weapons in arc at any time, with the front being the strongest, but decent broadsiding too.

    But now I use this, and I consider it a big improvement: Fore: 2 arrays, 1 torp, and Aft: 2 turrets, 1 torp. I can now use 4 energy weapons at all times in the front 250', and no one portion of that is better or worse. The turrets do a little less DPS, but a 4th weapon in those arcs more than makes up for it. I use two mk-X EPS consoles and there's no power issue at all. I had tried a 3rd turret in place of the rear torp, but the energy drain made it so the overall DPS wasn't that much better, and I really missed being able to use that rear torp opportunistically. You might want a mine layer or something different here, or just go ahead and use the additional turret and play with the power levels.

    But my strategy is (with a Recon ship) to always maneuver to try to stay inside the arc of shield facing on the target ship that I've chosen to take down. That means I may need to change throttle and turn sharply, and be able to shoot well in many directions. If you fly more like an escort, you probably want a more front-focused design, like 2 dual banks + torp and 3 turrets. Or if you fly the DSSV, which steers much more like a cruiser, you may want to instead focus on powerful broadsiding with beams, or make it completely direction-agnostic and load up with turrets.

    There are many ways to approach it, and a lot of it may also depend on what boff skills you tend to rely on too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Focalor wrote:
    Hello, i've been around for a little while now, with 2 lv 7 characters, but not much else to show for it :D
    Anyways, im currently playing with my lv7 science officer, and yeah, i intend to use science ships in the future once i get my promotions to higher ranks.

    The question is, ofcourse as the title suggests; what kind of weapons to use on a science ship?Cannons are out of the question i bet, as i can tell that they are either reserved to Klingon ships or starfleet tactical escorts,

    and this leaves us with,,, torpedos, mines, phasers(and such) and turrets.

    Im interested in having turrets on the back slots of my ship (mostly) while front slots are equipped with a combination of phasers variants and torpedoes,, but im not sure!

    i heard of some peeps use the ''2 beam, 2 turret, 2 torp setup'' on their Trident class ships (deep space science vessel) and that sounds like AN AWESOME SETUP to me, ROLEPLAYING WISE, but is it actually any effective in-game or should i narrow it down somehow?

    Thank you for ur time.

    I've found the default load out of weapon type for Science ships work well. With my RA5 Reconnaissance Science ship, I stick with 2 Beams Array forward/aft and a Torpedo Launch forward/aft. I capitalize on the turning ability to keep strong shields facing the enemy. And I can also alternate pumping torpedoes as I turn about as well while doing a broadside of 4 beams inbetween. A cross between a Cruiser and an Escort.

    But even as I level up, I stuck with the default weapon types of the T2 - T4 ships. I stuck with phasers for canonical and cheap skills reasons. But I upgraded to Quantum Torpedoes because I like to make each shot count on a naked hull. The higher burst damage of Quantums works better for me. And I love the sounds and gfx of Quantum Torpedoes.

    But I will admit that I do miss the Turrent of the T3 Science ship at times. It comes in handy for dealing with those High Yield Plasma Torpedoes. But overall, I found 4 beam arrays handled most of everything just fine. So I've stuck with them.

    On my Deep Space Science ship, I have been experimenting with different weapon load outs. Dual Bank weapons do look cool when firing from the front of a Trident Class. My experience have been mixed as I've also been using the exotic damage types which I don't have any skills ranks in. So my DPS is greatly reduces. But I will have to try out Turrents. I haven;t really experimented those yet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Its less of specific weapon types and more of what weapons you have skilled up.

    Beams typically work better for the Cruiser and Sci playstyle ( I would assume that DBBs probably work better in the fore slots on scis with their 90 deg arc debuffs). If you have your skill points into beams you shouldn't run turrets, cannons are weak without the cannon skills and CRF.

    On a 4-5 slot sci I would probably run DBB/torp on the fore slots (add an extra array or DBB if you have 3 fore slots) and either dual arrays or an array/torp in the aft slots.

    I personally haven't had much luck with torps in the aft position on my escort (ill have shields down with cannon fire before i pass by but the aft torp will usually not hit the unshielded facing). I could only really see aft torps being good on ships running full arrays (i.e. cruisers)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Wow! So many replies. THANK YOU FOR ALL THE ANSWERS! I have gone through them all reading them,
    and in the end i understand that science ships dont have a ''standart weapon of choice'' so as a captain i have to stick with what i fancy the most/allready trained up - that fits my playstile.

    i do allready have an idea of what i want.
    In my current newb cruiser (centaur hybrid) i stick to keeping enemies in front of me, hitting em with my torpedoes, frontal cannons, and rear mounted turrets (one regular turrer and one automated defense turret in tac slot) and it works really well for me and i wanna keep it up in the future if possible,, or at least a similar style.

    Now, we all know that respeccing is currently not available in the game, right? If it is, i must have been terribly, terribly out of contact.... and maybe i should stop sniffing tribbles for a while....:D

    So i was thinking that:
    Ultimately on my ''prize ship'' aka. the Trident: i use this weapon formula:

    Front:
    2 dual beams
    1 torpedo launcher (i dunno which kind exactly yet, i have to go through your posts about the torps again for that :) )

    Rear:
    3 turrets
    OR
    2 turrets and 1 something else like a torp launcher or etc...

    Etc:
    Still gonna keep on using my beloved auto turret in tac slot even if it kills me :D hehe

    (This setup is intended (as u guys explained) for frontal weapon damage that even fits with the scientists narrow arc front skills/abilities)

    So i intend to train skills that effect those weapon types such as:
    1-Beam weapons
    2-Torpedoes
    3-And,,,CANNONS`=? Cannons too? Since turret damage is effected by the cannon skills?

    If i train in torps, beams and cannons(for turrets) will i be spreading my skill points so thin that in the end i will end up GIMPING MY CHARACTER?
    Normally i wouldnt mind, but i dont wanna keep on playing weeks with a single character only to find out in the end that its totally wasted and gimped, and if there is no RESPEC option by than,, than im kinda screwed.

    Thats why im asking crazy questions like that here..

    Thx again for all the answers,
    Cheers!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well as far as being gimped goes, my rear admiral knows all about it... very poor skill choices because I didn't read any of the online manuals until later... but i still kick butt in PVE.

    Right now my Deep space is equipped with 3 turrets rear and one forward (both bays are tetryon turrets only) plus two quantums forward. It rocks, although I plan on respec changes to two photon. It also did well with a dual and two torps forward. But one you may want to consider is two dual phasers, and a photon forward plus three phaser turrets rear... with use of energy syphon level 1. Sweet.

    In any case, Skill points aren't a problem this way. You can mix beams and turrets. Of course with the autoturret in the tac console you might consider going plasma rather than phaser. Because you will need to use energy type as your other tac console slot. One energy type only is the way to go if you are using the autoturret (and the turret is plasma).

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Focalor wrote:
    If i train in torps, beams and cannons(for turrets) will i be spreading my skill points so thin that in the end i will end up GIMPING MY CHARACTER?
    Normally i wouldnt mind, but i dont wanna keep on playing weeks with a single character only to find out in the end that its totally wasted and gimped, and if there is no RESPEC option by than,, than im kinda screwed.

    Yeah, if you're using Dual Beams, Torpedoes, and Turrets, then you'll want to train the Cannons skill as well. For the Turrets.

    This really shouldn't cause you any skill point problems. Cannons are a Lt. Commander skill. See, the thing is... the higher rank skills cost an increasing number of points to level up. But Beams, Torpedoes and Cannons are pretty cheap skills. They're low on the tree.

    If you're worried about lack of points, then stick to Disruptors or Phasers for your energy weapons, and Photons or Quantums for your Torpedoes. This has been mentioned before in this thread, but it's worth saying again - this is the more skill-point efficient choice.

    'cause the Disruptor/Phaser and Photon/Quantum skills are Commander skills. Which means it costs fewer points to level 'em up for maximum damage boost versus all the other damage-type skills.

    The previous poster recommended increasing Plasma because the auto-turret console does Plasma damage. I'm not sure this is a good idea. I've not seen any proof that increasing Plasma skill actually boosts the damage done by the bonus console.

    Even if it DOES boost the damage...it's a piddly 45 base damage. You don't use the auto-turret tac console for damage output, the value is its use as a defensive thing... it shoots down mines, high-yield plasma torps, and tricobalt devices before they hit you. And it'll do that fine with just base damage.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    My RA5 Engineer went Science Ship, and went Phaser beam / Quantum Torps the whole way, with the traditional layout (1 torp fore / aft).

    My RA5 Tac officer leveled in Science ships. He went Dual Beam Bank forward with one Torp, and turrets aft.

    Advantages for the first layout is the ability to rotate and have about the same amount of power going into the opponent at any given angle. If they aren’t being broadsided with Phasers, they are being bombarded with Quantum Torps. Not a great deal of burst damage here.

    Advantages for the second layout is forward damage. I could usually take one of the three frigate-class ships in the first pass, sometimes two. My forward shield was almost always red or down, even with reinforcement.

    You should also not that in later tiers your weapon power becomes an issue. Right now equipping EPS consoles in your engineering slot will fix this, but I am hearing this will not always be the case.

    For Cruisers you have to equip Arrays / Turrets (/Torps), the turn rate becomes too horrible to worry about bringing that forward shield to bear for a dual beam bank.

    Long story. The point is either setup will get you where you want to go. One gets there a bit faster with more danger, the other is virtually un-killable.

    Also, as far as which weapon type to use, I find it’s a waste of points to do anything other than Phaser / Disruptor / Quantum Torp for skill points.
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