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I hate disintegrate.... Instantkill

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Who hates it, too?

Ground actions are making it very boring whit this "feature".
As a doctor you feel ****ed up.
All battle feeling is lost because.
Good long fights 5vs5 are very rar...

the chance to be desintegratet is simply too high for the time with all the skills.
Also in a winner team there is no fun with instantkills.
i got no problems with stuns... than another teammate can support my.
Plz... change all skills for all classes for a lower desintegrate.

The best groundbattels ingame were without instantkill. it was the most exciting fight with the most of fun! 40/39 wins etc.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I love it, one of the best features in the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Temiel wrote:
    As a doctor you feel ****ed up.

    Scientists have the greatest amount of expose abilities if you pick the right kit.

    I do agree that it gets boring though, I wish expose's duration would be reduced and the hold it applies would be removed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    LordTareq wrote: »
    I love it, one of the best features in the game.

    Agreed! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Expose/exploit system is great; they just need to reduce the hold on exposes to 1-3 seconds (leave the expose duration though).

    As a doctor, you have more abilities to save your teammates than just heals. IIRC, you have abilities that can remove exposes, plus you have holds and could carry a stun pistol to stop people from being able to exploit an exposed teammate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Indolo wrote:
    Expose/exploit system is great; they just need to reduce the hold on exposes to 1-3 seconds (leave the expose duration though).

    Agreed. The expose/exploit system is definitely needed, and while I hate getting hit with it, I love being the one hitting other with it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hold on expose is just bad, otherwise the expose/exploit is fine. But it makes no sense to be unable to do anything when you see the expose marker come up. (And it makes melee stupid - who can hit first.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I don't mean this in any way as an insult... so please don't take it as one.

    I really don't understand (and I tried) how anyone can enjoy ground pvp in this game.
    The ground engine feels clunky and seriously outdated, something I would expect to see in a game 7 or 8 years ago.
    The whole expose/exploit mechanic (again, simply a personal opinion) is TRIBBLE as a means of PvP, placing everything you do completely in the realm of luck, instead of reaction times and "skill"

    When I was trying to give ground pvp a chance, in the first few days of launch, all the games went in this manner:

    Run around until target found
    Spam sci skills (doesn't matter which, as long as it exposes) until target thingy appears
    press special attack quickly for 1 shot kills
    ???
    profit
    rinse repeat


    For those out there that do enjoy ground pvp, I envy you :( cuz I'm missing a big part of the game, that I simply cannot seem to enjoy at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The percentage for this is way too high IMHO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Akwartz wrote:
    Scientists have the greatest amount of expose abilities if you pick the right kit.

    I do agree that it gets boring though, I wish expose's duration would be reduced and the hold it applies would be removed.

    On a more important note, Scientists also have the most abilities to remove expose effects.

    The two have to work togather, expose then exploit. If you remove the expose effect before the exploit attack it is just a normal attack. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sharpsy wrote:
    I don't mean this in any way as an insult... so please don't take it as one.

    I really don't understand (and I tried) how anyone can enjoy ground pvp in this game.
    The ground engine feels clunky and seriously outdated, something I would expect to see in a game 7 or 8 years ago.
    The whole expose/exploit mechanic (again, simply a personal opinion) is TRIBBLE as a means of PvP, placing everything you do completely in the realm of luck, instead of reaction times and "skill"

    When I was trying to give ground pvp a chance, in the first few days of launch, all the games went in this manner:

    Run around until target found
    Spam sci skills (doesn't matter which, as long as it exposes) until target thingy appears
    press special attack quickly for 1 shot kills
    ???
    profit
    rinse repeat


    For those out there that do enjoy ground pvp, I envy you :( cuz I'm missing a big part of the game, that I simply cannot seem to enjoy at all.

    To me Ground PVP is the game, the star ship is to get to the ground PVP location.

    As I indicated before, if I wanted to play a Starship combat simulator I would play Star Fleet Command, in space there is nothing to do and no real reason for teamwork. On the ground there is, team work is essential to success; especially against superior numbers.

    I have played (both Klingon and Federation) in games with 1 to 2 odds and my team still won... the reason was when the end stats popped up I normally outhealed everyone by at least 10 to 1. If a member of the opposing faction also was noticably healing I would send them a PM with a kudos...

    The way to make the ground combat last is to work as a team and support the team, if everyone is using weapons and abilities.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    my only problem with disintigration is that some NPCs can resurrect disintegrated enemies.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Eleriel wrote:
    my only problem with disintigration is that some NPCs can resurrect disintegrated enemies.

    I would hazard a guess that if we happened to be close enough we could do so to, but yes I think it should be different.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well personally, I wished they removed Expose / Exploits, but guess it is a necessity. But when Open Zone PvP is implemented, it's going to make 1 on 1s, nothing but who can get EEs off the fastest.

    But people here have the right idea, shorten the duration of the expose and fix the extended Expose stun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I love ground PvP, and I enjoy the uncertainty that the expose and exploit system introduces (keeps people from getting cocky, even the very best PvPers can get vaped by a lucky shot).

    The only major complaint I have about ground PvP is the hold spamming. Some teams I run into do nothing but spam holds; kit abilities, stun phasers, and if that doesn't work, bat'leths! Highly annoying :mad:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Eleriel wrote:
    my only problem with disintigration is that some NPCs can resurrect disintegrated enemies.

    You can do this with players as well. Despite the lack of a visible corpse, you can still target and resurrect them... with CPR... done from a tricorder...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sharpsy wrote:
    I don't mean this in any way as an insult... so please don't take it as one.

    I really don't understand (and I tried) how anyone can enjoy ground pvp in this game.
    The ground engine feels clunky and seriously outdated, something I would expect to see in a game 7 or 8 years ago.
    The whole expose/exploit mechanic (again, simply a personal opinion) is TRIBBLE as a means of PvP, placing everything you do completely in the realm of luck, instead of reaction times and "skill"

    When I was trying to give ground pvp a chance, in the first few days of launch, all the games went in this manner:

    Run around until target found
    Spam sci skills (doesn't matter which, as long as it exposes) until target thingy appears
    press special attack quickly for 1 shot kills
    ???
    profit
    rinse repeat


    For those out there that do enjoy ground pvp, I envy you :( cuz I'm missing a big part of the game, that I simply cannot seem to enjoy at all.

    I'm still trying to figure out why I have so much fun in ground PVP. I've done almost all of it as a tactical officer so I don't have all the fancy exposes; just my stun phaser and melee attack (which I don't spam) and the very rare target optics.

    Expose/exploit doesn't throw everything into the realm of luck. Noobs will run around doing nothing but exposes till they can exploit. I had a whole fed team spend 10 seconds trying to get an expose on me; I was held the whole time and they could've easily killed me in 3-4 seconds (5 on 1) but they didn't want to miss an expose chance. Skill is in tactics and strategy, teamwork, judgment of whether to go for the expose or just kill the enemy, etc. In teams, being exposed isn't a death sentence, since your team can disable the opponents (stuns, knockbacks, weapon malfunction, etc) or remove your expose.

    Your description sounds like solo PVP. That's what the Rambos do charging in solo and ignoring their team. That's not to say it's all bad, there are times and places for it, but acting as a team makes ground PVP much more fun. Also, you say you tried ground PVP at the beginning of launch. It may have changed a bit as some people have learned to cooperate and work as teams.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    It's a decent mechanic, but requires a bit of revamping I think. Overall, exploit damage versus players ought to stand a little reduction, and the hold should be removed so you don't have those times where some guy walks behind you, tips his hat, and waits for his gun to recharge as you kindly stand there and wait for him to vaporize you. It sort of trivializes a bunch of defensive abilities, since you can't heal someone who dies instantaneously, and a 25% defense bonus will not save you from 1600 damage.

    Nor is it particularly fun to see a good 5v5 hallway fight end when someone uses target optics, tachyon harmonic, or any other AOE expose ability, exposes two or more people and vaporizes them with his split beam and routs your group via complete luck. Generally this can decide the game as a good team will prevent the defeated group from recovering its randomly spawned members.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I am all for this system. As I said before, it would be nearly impossible to kill anyone good without this system. I had science officers heal for over 30k in a round, while I was pounding them for the same 30k damage. On top of that simple LOS break+hypo pop will keep fights going indefinitely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The_Stig wrote: »
    I am all for this system. As I said before, it would be nearly impossible to kill anyone good without this system. I had science officers heal for over 30k in a round, while I was pounding them for the same 30k damage. On top of that simple LOS break+hypo pop will keep fights going indefinitely.

    QFT some people are just built up like brickhouse and the only way you can kill them is by getting a exopse/exploit attack on them. What they need to do is what allot of people have already said remove the stun from it you should not be stuned while exposed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    This is a ridiculous thread. Disintegration is BY FAR the best part about the ground game in STO. Respawn and stop QQing. Science officers are supposed to heal you and stop expose effects. Tell them to do their job.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Uth wrote:
    Disintegration is BY FAR the best part about the ground game in STO. Respawn and stop QQing. Science officers are supposed to heal you and stop expose effects. Tell them to do their job.

    this for the win.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    But the fact of seperate stun from expose need to be heared. Thats the only thing i would change. Bat'leth fights would be more interesting and everyone else have a chance to save himself. I can live with that if they dont change anything, but i hope they will do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Typically on ground combat I always get killed the same way....Im held then one shot killed....so im use to it by now.....:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sharpsy wrote:
    The whole expose/exploit mechanic (again, simply a personal opinion) is TRIBBLE as a means of PvP, placing everything you do completely in the realm of luck, instead of reaction times and "skill"

    Precisely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mike111 wrote:
    The percentage for this is way too high IMHO.

    I'm pretty sure there are things in the game that expose a lot more than 10% -- like bugged weapons and abilities.

    I'd love for the devs to take a pass through the system to ensure that nothing ever exposes more than 10% of the time.


    That said, I do love the Expose mechanic. I think they should reduce the damage by about 25% or so, so that you don't always kill an unbuffed, full health opponent. I think it should be more of a "finishing move" against a wounded target than a free kill.

    You can buff your way to survival, though. With me as Tactical using a kit like Security Protocol, it's not unusual to see nearby teammates survive due to the stacking resists buffs and enemy DPS debuffs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Is it luck that I can tear through a team of feds in a 4v1 match and keep a lead for 5 minutes (till more players join). Is it skill that I understand the expose/exploit system and use it tactically to succeed against otherwise overwhelming odds?

    I'm not saying anything about anyone here, but in PVP, the people I see complaining about exposes and holds are the ones refusing to use them. Refusing to use them is refusing to play by the rules. That's not skillful.

    Even the people that know to fire an exploit at the player with the bright target can be skillful or not. I had a team of 5 feds keep me held/knocked down/stunned for over 10 seconds trying to get an expose on me. It was 5v1 and they could've killed me in 3 seconds of focus fire, but instead they waited at least 10 seconds because they didn't want to fire their secondary attack and miss the expose opportunity they were desperately trying to achieve. In that time, my (not so good pug) team could've run over and saved me or hurt them bad from the rear. That's not skillful.

    During a typical match, I'm exposing players at least 3 times as much as I'm being exposed, often quite more. I'm tactical (with fire team kit) and not even particularly good since I forget to use target optics half the time, so I'm not running around with a ton of expose abilities (stun pistol, melee attack which I don't spam on principle, and an AOE that I forget to use half the time). Am I luckier than my opponents, or is there some skill involved in making sure I either kill them or escape instead of dying to them?

    I usually run with teams (random pugs by the way) that are focused on 2 things. Killing the enemy for points and surviving to not give the enemy points. We don't need exposes to win. Our strategy isn't based around them. They're an occasional opportunity for the battle to turn, which is luck, but it's also skill to recognize that the match isn't determined by expose/exploit. Winners win because of teamwork and using the abilities they have available. They win by recognizing the vulnerable targets (which doesn't mean the ones with an expose target on them) and exploiting them. They win by disabling the troublesome opponents. They win by covering each other when someone on the team is exposed. That sounds more like skill than luck to me.

    In matches, the people I see complaining about skill and luck are trying to play a different game and failing because of that. Players start with the basics of DPS. Then they learn about grouping up, expose/exploit and also either start carrying hypos or complaining about them. They start shaping their game around expose/exploit because it's awesome when it works. Then they learn that they're handicapping themselves by relying on it and realize that it's just one tool among many. You give yourself opportunities to expose your opponents, but you don't waste time killing them to get that expose. I don't know what comes after that because that's as far as I am in the progression.

    Just my opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Akwartz wrote:
    Scientists have the greatest amount of expose abilities if you pick the right kit.

    I do agree that it gets boring though, I wish expose's duration would be reduced and the hold it applies would be removed.

    Yeah, what you say here is right, I think it lasts juuuuust a little too long and shouldn't leave you rooted to the spot. At least then it's not a free kill, otherwise though it should stay (frankly if they didn't make those changes I wouldn't be that bothered, they are just things I feel would make it less annoying).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Just remove the stun component of exposes, it really sucks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    We often saw it in Canon, so it is Canon, but we never really gave that much thought, it makes Life more important too, and shows how life can be so fragile as well, and that we must cherish it because it can be gone forever in an instant..poof...nothing left.

    As part of the game I like it, because it adds a new Dynamic to engagements, and avoids, for Unbeatable teams that die and respawn on the spot to dominate, since as a healer you cannot predict who will disintegrate even if your using macros addons and what not to do the job for you and maintain numerical superiority.
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