Edit: I don't have time to fix this right now, so I'll just say that carriers spawning more than what's in their bays while out of combat has FINALLY been called an exploit by Cryptic, and when season 1 comes out that will be fixed.
How to Kill a Carrier 2nd Edition
What follows are some ideas on how to tackle a carrier. This is written from the perspective of a carrier pilot, me, along with some help from posts in this thread. This is the second version of this post (the first one wasn't as good).
Basics
Before continuing I highly suggest that you check out Matt_Dravis'
very good PvP tips thread. This information will help you in all of your battles, not just against carriers. Read it. Learn it. Play all your games by it. Trust me, you'll be happy that you did.
WHAT MAKES A CARRIER SPECIAL?
The carrier is the largest and the slowest ship int he game. At T5 the slowest federation ship is 50% more maneuverable than the carrier, meaning that it's going to try to stay put and rely on you doing the same. It has 3 fore weapon slots, and 3 aft, is a science ship, and has 2 fighter bays.
In each of these bays it can have 4 To'Dju fighters which are fast and do moderate damage, 1 Bird of Prey which does fairly good damage, 4 siphon pods which can wreak havoc on your energy levels or 4 shield repair drones, which don't really do much at all.
When in combat it can only launch what is currently in the bays, and all fighter types have a non-shared cooldown. Tu'Dju, for instance, have a 1 minute cooldown while the BoPs have 3 minutes each. If not in combat the carrier can launch what is in its bays and then swap those in the bay out for other fighter types to launch. Because of this a carrier can, if it has the time to prepare, field 24 fighters. Once combat starts, though, that number will decrease making the carrier less and less effective.
Unless you're taking a beating from the fighters it's usually better to go after the carrier itself, because when it dies all of its fighters do, too.
Now onto some anti-carrier stuff.
#1 - CROWD CONTROL
Carriers aren't much different than cruisers in that they are big, move slowly, and are often used mainly as backup. One of the best things you can do is use crowd control on us Here as some ideas on what seems to work well
-Subnucleonic beam is as great against carriers as it is against anything else. Hit a carrier with this and they can do nothing, not even launch more ships. This leaves them wide open for attack which, without significant backup for the carrier, will likely kill them swiftly.
-Viral Matrix is another good one where we can do nothing at all. Not even move. Sure we can use a science team to clear it, but if they are on a cooldown for it then this will let you take the carrier down very fast.
-Jam Target Sensors allows you to disappear from their view, letting you kill them with impunity. Again, a science team will clear it, but if you notice that happening, then it's time for the Viral Matrix, as you can be assured that science team is on cooldown (unless the science team came from a teammate). I have a video of an escort that I fought the other day. He jammed my sensors, and by the time I had realized what he did he was behind me, my shields were down and I didn't have the time to pull myself out of it. He was FAST! (I will post when it's formatted correctly)
-Scramble Sensors can be pretty evil. It affects everyone in a sphere and that includes all of the fighters if they are close by. They will target each other, and you will make the carrier shoot at its own fleet. I almost never am able to clear this off of me for some reason, so I usually end up waiting it out. If the carrier is waiting it out, it's not shooting you or using abilities on allies.
-Tractor Repulsors can send us flying in a direction that kicks us out of the battle completely. I've been in a group that had 3 carriers, and one person shoved us completely apart. It took a very long time to get back into formation where we could help each other again.
#2 AREA OF EFFECT
The fighters tend to crowd around each other and are prime for an area of effect weapon.
-Tricobalt weapons will destroy all fighters nearby, and a high yield plasma will do the same, but both are easily seen and shot down. If you use these, you need to be careful how you do. Launch late, preferably as the fighters near you so that there is no time to shoot it down.
-Torpedo spread may do well here too. I haven't tested it, but as long as the torpedos explode near the fighters you should be able to take them out.
-Gravity well will keep all the fighters from moving in on you.
-The explosion of your warp core will also take out any fighters nearby, and possibly start a chain reaction of warp core explosions devastating the fleet.
#3 USE YOUR MANEUVERABILITY
Did you know that the slowest federation ship at T5 is 50% more maneuverable than the carrier? This will let you dictate the terms of the engagement. You can pull the faster klingon ships away from us and we won't be able to support them. Even a couple of kilometers can make a huge impact on what we can do.
Don't be afraid to get around to a weak spot, especially if you have other teammates shooting the carrier. They can't do anything to stop you, meaning that your focus fire will be that much more effective. Although carriers will tend to focus fire, too, they are just too slow to maneuver a stronger shield into position.
# TARGETING
It can be really hard to target a carrier amidst its fleet, so how do you do it? There are a couple of things that you can do to make it easier. First is to surround us. Carriers can't split up their fighters so they will all go in one direction. A teammate on the opposite side of the carrier, then, can target, call it out, and then you can target their target.
The other, though you have to be real close to do it, is to zoom out as far as you can, and then position the camera so that the closest thing to your screen is the carrier itself. This has limited applications, but it can help in a pinch.
MISC
-Don't ram us unless you're a really big ship, and even then think twice. Carriers are the biggest and are more likely to survive it than you. I have a video that I will post soon of a ship ramming me and getting killed by it, while I survived well.
Comments
Traitor!!
:P
Just a small problem ... what do you do against 5 carriers?
5 feds vs. 5 kli carriers ... guess whos going to win? :rolleyes:
You hit the carrier group with scramble sensors. They'll take out most of their own shield drones, the fighters will attack each other etc
I try and cure myself with a science team if hit by a scramble, if that fails (or more likely end up using science team on a shield drone) i hit one of my RSPs
Yeah, I love doing that. Carriers are purpose-built for having their sensors gloriously scrambled.
I don't know, I've never been in a team that was all carriers. The most was 3, and that happened once. Most of what I said will still work, and since even your cruisers are more maneuverable than us you need to take advantage of that. Don't get too close to us, and then you can EASILY get away when needed. If you get within 5k, you're going to be hit with at least one tractor beam, so don't get that close. Stay to the side so that we can't us a speed buff to get closer to you, because we really can't. Staying to the side also means no subnucleonic beam, no viral, etc.
Let one person who's a good tank be the bait by getting just within 10k, then send everyone else, from another direction, after a single carrier. The tank can do some AoE on the mound of fighters heading their way, and since they are all going after the same target they will be in one big ball.
A group of 5 carriers working as a coordinated group is going to be a real tough nut to crack, no question about it. Then again, so is a group of 5 cruisers working as a coordinated group.
Just remember that absolutely everything that you can field at T5 is more maneuverable than the carrier, so use that to your advantage.
Yeah, I know, but I'd rather have a good match in PvP than listen to the complaints from people who just don't try. Now they have no excuse.
You can press F1 to target yourself. You never need to click on yourself.
I have killed several of my own fighters before I realized that it would make me target them as well. Now if my sensors are scrambled and I can't get them back I tend to wait it out, only taking shots I'm absolutely sure about, because otherwise I may up shredding many of my minions.
Nonsense! Speaking as a BoP driver, you should always target the cruisers first. They are nice and big and slow. Us BoPs don't do any damage, so don't waste any time on us.
It just gets TRIBBLE when there is oh, say 120 AI ships on you with a couple BoP spamming VM lol.
Launch scramble sensors on incoming Carriers. By the time that little green bolt gets to them they will be launching offensive ships, which will turn back on them if in close enough proximity...its awesome to watch
BRING FRIENDS AND HOPE you WIN!
Seriously this is BS so many things are tilted towards klinks. Some by themselves are just a debatable topic but sheesh how many advantages do you need to see a problem here. This argument about being fragile is BS a properly geared Carrier is tougher then a well geared star cruiser and they have 3 Xs the dps with all the minions.
Where is the balance?
So I give you lots of ideas, and you come back to QQ, and you wonder why you lose?
I do well as a carrier. Still, though, there were many people tonight who took me out in seconds, and that was working alone. Decent teamwork can take me down really fast. I saw some people using these ideas (don't know if they read them here), and though they didn't win they proved to be very effective in getting rid of the fighters and splitting us up. A little more practice at it and they'll be deadly. Balance can only be truly seen with teams of equal skill. That rarely occurs.
Get out and play more. Come back when you have a Klingon at BG5. You will see what we mean when we say that experience is key.
Ok then so you died sorry to hear that my point stands. Your deflection and so called tips are not for some magnanimous benefit for Feds. Its and obvious deflection of the truth that carriers are in need of some review because there is little balance in the the comparison of cruisers. I have 2 Adm 5 and yes I'm sorry i only have a captain Klingon so please feel free to say I'm ignorant. If you can not go into a fight with all MKx gear and well speced and knowledgeable with your class and hope to win at least 50% of the fights one on one then something is wrong. The game is not a one on one game but that is the best test of class comparison. On the flip side a BoP is dead every time against me one on one. The point is made the game is imbalanced and its the same old argument. "L2P! I'm just that good" and "stop the QQ" from the people with the advantages and long posts about nerf this nerf that from those that feel like underdogs. My favorite argument is the "its hard for us to level so we deserve the advantage" that made me laugh out loud. the games is imbalanced and saying you die once in a while to a full team doesn't make it balanced.
So you are saying that bops need a boost in shields and hull strength as they are clearly unbalanced to their detriment if you never ever die in a one v one. Perhaps they need an extra BO postition added to help even things a bit.
you have no issue with a ship you always beat, but cry when there is one you struggle against. This sounds to me like you just can't cope with being killed because your just too darn special and it shouldn't be allowed.
I totally agree with the boost Bop position however, i will start a thread at some point and link to you post as support, i run in a Bop and i totally agree i feel soo gimp i often wonder why i don't just cry and give up. Oh wait, you're not on about npc ships are you? just thought i'd ask
Type /target _______ (name of the player)
Have one or more ships use target shield subsystems on the carrier at 10 km. Evasive manuever toward it, use torpedo high yield, and drop a tricobalt right into the carrier, then fly out of the way. Finish off the carrier.
Supplemental: Get a science officer to stack aux equipment, maximize aux power settings, then fly to 10 km toward the carrier, use an aux battery, then subnucleonic beam the carrier; makes the kill smooth and quick.
This is a very easy method to do if you're in a 1 vs 1 situation with a carrier, and a carrier deserves to be killed in this situation because they are not designed for 1 vs 1 and should never be away from their team like that.
The only tactics that work against Carriers are teamwork and more teamwork. Tricobalts are situational, take up space, and just aren't that good. Shield drones aren't worth killing. Kill siphons, ignore the rest. Most AoEs aren't worth using on small, easy to miss targets. Most AoEs in this game are total TRIBBLE, blah blah blah blah.
There ya go, a whole wall of text summarized. Now to advertise my leetness to all: I R experienced fed, bettah den yous all! L2P! Lvl kling to T5 for skillz!
Carriers aren't overpowered, just annoying hell sent demons which, in the right hands, can make any organized team cuss at their monitor spam. Most carrier pilots don't know TRIBBLE. The few that do make me grind my teeth into nubs. I pray that those "experienced" klingons, who feel so self important, never learn the right way to PvP.
before anyone can rip on you I should say that I agree, if people advocate TRIBBLE like scramble sensors they should realize that theres a large thread of klinks that laugh at that because its so ineffective. and tricobalt also needs to be launched within 1km of the cruiser or else the fighters tend to shoot it down also. other AOE skills don't do enough damage to kill anything other than the energy syphons or for that matter, break shields.
Where's your proof? They aren't so called tips, they are tips. I want good fights and less QQ from people like you. If you think it's imbalanced, prove it. No one has.
RA5 means nothing. You can get that in PvE and most of the feds do. It's rare that you're going to get a complete group of PvP experienced players on the fed side, so you really have no idea what truly is balanced or not. As someone who ACTUALLY FLIES the carrier and who wins and loses, I can tell you that against a group of equal quality to my own the balance is fine. If it was imbalanced, I'd always win. That's not the case.
It's BECAUSE it's not a 1v1 game that it's the WORST test of class comparison. I'm just flabbergasted that you would even suggest such a thing. Basketball is a team game, but a 1v1 will only tell you who's the better player. Football is a team game, but runningbacks must be OP because the blockers can't catch them, right?
So as Ardept says, buff the BoP! If a Klink told me that they couldn't take you out, I'd tell THEM to learn to play too.
Not a FULL team. A GOOD team. You saying that you have trouble against a carrier doesn't make it IMbalanced. Saying that a good fed team is a good fight IS a good indication of balance.
I'm glad that I could provide you with a cause for you to fight against. :rolleyes:
So you have nothing to add here? Your only reason to be here is your hatred of me? One of us is trying to help out by giving beneficial information. The other person is simply trolling. Can you guess who is who?
Hmm, generally winning, generally high in DPS and healing.. Yup, I already know the right way to PvP thanks. I don't feel so important. I don't think I'm awesome. I'm just sick of people like you who bring nothing but negativity to the table so I'm trying to add something positive (though yes, I certainly voice my own frustrations while doing so). If more people were constructive with their posts I likely would never say anything. Hell, in all honesty, I'd far prefer it.
So how about it? Why not be a positive member of the community and HELP your fellow players? Either that or get lost and let us get back to improving the place.
I believe I did add something of my own. I pointed out the flaws in your tactics and substituted my own. You even quoted it. Perhaps you were too hung up on my opening line? Ego can do that to ya.
I guess I could say spider tanking, rapid targeting changes, and damage control are all legitimate "soft counters," but that applies to any situation. My premades have tried several tactics on negating carrier spam, and no specific counter works, as I outlined before. We only target fighters when we want to embarrass and neuter said carrier. As I said before, kill the siphons, ignore the rest, heal heal heal, and shoot the carrier dead.
I should mention that "kiting" carriers is one of your worst tactics though. You need to engage them in weapons range, otherwise endless amount of fighters will attack you, keeping you in combat, and the carrier safe and dry. Feds are tied to their cruisers as klings to their carriers.
And since you thought I was personally attacking your skill, I should point out that your ego saw what you wanted to see. I in no way said you were bad, I just generalized. Perhaps you should list your in game name so I can give an opinion? It seems that anytime someone does bring up an issue though, you're always quick to denounce them and beat your chest about your leet skills, and how they should... roll a klingon?
I called you out for acting like an entitled Klingon, and you told me you in no way advocated that Klingons=skill. The above quote seems to put the lies to your words. You have no clue who the above poster was, but you decided he needed to get more experience and roll a klingon. The fact he was a qqer without a valid point means nothing. Be the bigger man and ignore him if you have nothing to add, which was also a criticism of me, was it not?
And yes, perhaps I do rag on you a little, because obvious trolls are annoying, but subtle, snarky commenting trolls just irritate me. You never fail to throw in a "I play a Klingon, therefore I have more experience/skill than you" subtle comment in every post.
All that being said, I recognize that your have many intelligent posts, legitimate points, and decent critiques in many other threads where I said nothing, cause you said it all. I wouldn't bother having a conversation if you weren't worth it, but could you tone down the ego? It's dragging your posts down.
So I'm not going to argue with you any more, because you obviously aren't paying attention. You quote me saying that experience is key, and then say I just said that klingons = skill. Experience doesn't equal skill. Start paying attention to what you are reading and we can talk again.
Oh, and I play a Klingon, so I DO have more experience then you unless you've played as much as I have which, as a fed, is unlikely. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying I have more skill. I'm saying I have more experience. I'm a good player, but far from great. I don't know how many times I have to say that before people like you will actually understand what I'm saying and stop putting words in my mouth. A troll is someone who posts to **** people off, misquotes, puts words in peoples mouths and generally only post to antagonize. Your posts fits the bill. Mine don't.
And as I posted in the other thread, I thought that forum names were the same as your user name in the game. merai@sam_charette. Come find me and see how good or bad I am. Or you can wait till I get some movies up to see it. I have several from last night showing me doing many stupid things and getting my butt kicked.
Of course if you're in this just to attack me for no good reason then I guess that won't matter to you.
Ok here is my reply to your "how to" guide:
1) Good call but if people aren't given more than 4 seconds to invite a 5th player as they zone in before the Klingons pounce on them then they have no way to organize.
2) You pretty much just repeated what you said with 1). Seems like extra fluff to make your post look like it has more content.
3) More info about being organized. Again more fluff.
4) Focus fire the ship with the lowest shield and hull? That's not exactly telling us how to kill a Carrier. In fact you admit that it's just as hard to bring down as a cruiser and we should avoid attacking it until last. Not exactly a great "how to" guide on killing Carriers I must say. But hey, it is still good pvp advice to attack the squishy guy. Too bad he's cloaked... What's that? He just came out of cloak and half our team is SNB'd? Oh god time for us all to die one by one. GG
5) This one is obvious. Players who full impulse back into a losing fight aren't doing so because they think they can "save the day" but because they just want to get the match over with quickly. I know, you would like to sit back and think "lol they are so dumb!!!" but the truth is they just want to grind pvp to get gear faster.
Carrier Specifics? The title of this thread is how to bring down a carrier not general pvp.
1) You think the tri-cobalt is harder to see even though it has a big SQUARE outlining it? I think you just want people to waste it early. Torpedo Spread works much better and is on a shorter cooldown. Horrible advice from you.
2) Your advice is to run away from the carrier? That's how we kill it? By running away? WHAT??? "Hey guys lets fly off over here so we can 4v5 the klinks because the Carrier is slow. Oh wtf they all cloaked and now the Carrier is spawning more TRIBBLE because it's out of combat! Nooooo!!!!" Horrible advice here.
3) More about being organized. More fluff to make the post longer but have no substance. "hey guys I just zoned into cracked plant can I get a team invite? Oh god they're attacking!!!?? Who is the main assist? Why am I typing instead of fighting? Everyone is dead because I spent the last 20 seconds asking who to assist
4) The zoom idea is pretty cool. I'll give you points for that one. Although you have to be very close to use this tactic.
5) So your strategy for Feds is for us to just sit at the spawn point and pray the cloaked klinks suicide into us? Ya I'm sure that will happen. Don't get me wrong I'm sure they do rush over to the Fed spawn point but it's to camp us as we zone in 1 by 1, never when we have all 5 already. If they are attacking with 5 feds then it's the Kilingons who are disorganized, so now you're giving us tips on how to beat up a bunch of bad players?
The you go off on a rant here about how players should change their strategy depending on the group makup of the Klingons. "Hey guys we see 1 carrier and 4 cloaked klinks, what to do? lol idk they are cloaked can't see wtf they are tac/sci/eng." Unless you are talking about Pre-made vs. Pre-made then you are just not making sense here.
Here you say carriers are not overpowered. Yet you give no strategy on how to kill it before the other 4 members on it's team. Ok... A real carrier? There are no real Klingon Carriers buddy. This is all fiction. Unless you are talking about Aircraft Carriers that the Navy uses? Once this game is named "High Seas Adventures Online" then you can make that argument. Until then, no.
1) Get rid of minion names you say? That's a decent Idea. I'll give you points for that.
2) Here you talk about how OP you are that you can just spawn fighters left and right as long as you are not in combat. You even admit that it's just wrong that it's possible sit back and do this. Keeping a Carrier in combat is the only way we can bring it down so we MUST stay within 10km of it to keep it in combat. I find it ironic that first you say your Carrier should be able to launch tons of TRIBBLE and then shortly later you proclaim that it's lame. You sir are a walking contradiction.
And in conclusion you say you are not a "supership" yet you have given next to no tactical information on how to actually kill it as the 2nd or 3rd target. Do you really think it's ok for one guy to spawn 20+ wings of ships while beinga ble to put out the same heals / support as a federation science vessel? I didn't think so.
40 minute queue's prevent Feds from getting tons of experience in PvP. Not that it would fix much. There is a very good reason why Klingons do not queue for KvK. It's because they know that cloak is no fun when the other team has it. That's the truth.
Actually nothing could be further from the truth.
A bunch of KvK zones are bugged where you don't get credit for the fight and there are not enough Klingons playing to fill the ques.
We have to que where the traffic is at T5. That is in Fed Ques. The reason your ques are so long is because there are not enough T5 Klingons around to fight.
Other then my fleet when I pug I see the same faces day after day. I wouldn't be surprised if there are really only 30 to 40 T5 Klingons that play on a regular basis total on the server.
Vllad
Purge
I appreciate when you que solo you have no idea what or who you will get in a scrn and sometimes you just have the wrong ships for the task but with over a hundred waiting would it be so bad to pre form balanced grps. when there are only 5 klinks waiting there is less need to grp as you're going to see them in the nxt game anyway.
love it or hate it, while it is available sub vm the toad and let the escorts pew pew it into oblivion, and save that scan sensors for them, i know now you can see us on the map you think it might be worth a shot at pulling a klink out but -75% reisits on a carrier when the escorts focus on it will ruin its day.
ruining your day in every way
Outcast
Ya I saw your other post, I figured that was what you were talking bout, but it did confuse me for a minute.
You still think I'm attacking your "experience" in my posts, and you accuse me of failed reading comprehension? This is why you equate skill with experience, whether you realize it or not (and by now, I surely don't expect you to).
-You throw the word experience around as much as some do with L2P.
-I attack your "experience" and you feel the need to defend your playstyle-aka skills
-You believe for some reason that to be experienced in PvP, you need to play Klingon. This is false, and too similar to the "klings have more skill and/or exp. argument." Weak point, but in combination with your general attitude, only reinforces it.
Do I have to quote you word for word (misquote wut)? In response to my critique that "experienced" carrier pilots usually don't know how to play, you said "Hmm, generally winning, generally high in DPS and healing.. Yup, I already know the right way to PvP thanks." I never addressed you personally, but you felt the need to defend yourself... and your skill. You must of assumed you were the experienced pilot with the lack of skill. This was before our little "experience" argument started. Why did you assume I meant you? You failed to pick up on this, and tell me I can't read?
And apparently we've had a misunderstanding. I feel that you don't have to play Klingon for more experience. And I can tell you right now that your claim of more experience is misguided. I've played Klingon AND Fed, since beta thru 45. In fact, I played nearly as much PvP leveling as a Fed as I did with my Klingon, since trying to level PvP as a Fed slows you down quite a bit more (no pvp quests). I know many others who've done the same. The simple fact is if you want to be good as Feds, you have to play Feds, and the same for Klingons. The ships and tactics are about as different as you can get, save for some general similarities. You and I have both learned all the advanced basic stuff, the rest is in the details.
Whether you agree or not with my posts is fine, but I posted a harshly critical post because I strongly disagreed with you and your attitude on occasion. If you're not prepared to believe you may be wrong, or be harshly criticized, then don't post. A simple jab to your self importance has brought on a firestorm of aggression from you, which proves my point. Guess the discussion IS over. Your simple dismissal of my valid points with an accusation of trolling is an empty argument.
And forum names can be different, afaik. That's why I asked. I don't recall running into you, but I'm sure I have.
And I'm done trying to make nice. You conveniently ignored that part. Reading comprehension my a**. I'm not the only one to disagree with you.
I've already given my opinion on spawn camping. I hate it. Look at the staging area link in my sig. That said, you can still organize afterwards, and if you're fighting carriers you WILL have time to group up. We take a very long time to get to the fight.
It is a separate point because of how important it is. Some groups will organize themselves, but not support each other. They are two separate things, but I do apologize for the confusing wording.
Lots of people don't seem to understand that focus fire is necessary. When you tell someone to organize, they may not think to support each other and focus fire, even though that is part of organization. That's why it's there. I've seen groups that support each other, but since they all have different targets they can't take anyone down. You likely aren't one of these people, and good for you. This thread is for everyone, though, not just people who already have the basics.
Did you not read the category of "Basics"? This wasn't intended to be the part on carriers. The category of "Carrier Specifics" below this is. That said, one of the best ways to take out a carrier is to outnumber and overwhelm them. That's easier to do when they don't have team mates.
Is SNB a cone or a direct attack? I've never seen an instance where it affected more than one individual. I'd also go so far as to say that I don't think I've ever seen a Klingon do it. Of course there are plenty of Klingons I have played with that I don't know what they are doing, but of those that I play regularly with none of us use it.
I have been the victim of it many times, though, so this problem isn't unique to you. We all have to deal with SNB.
Some do, sure, but this guide isn't for them. This is for people who want to win, and I guarantee you that there are people who do this to get back to the fight. Though it's a bonehead move, I do it. I only do so when I think that I can make a difference, of course, but I've been caught with my pants down on many occasions because I did this. If I'm up against a decent team this will certain get me killed. I think I have some of that on video, though I'll have to look.
When I wrote that it was only from experience against it. It's worked nicely against me. Then I got one of my own, and I must agree that it really isn't that hard to spot or take out. I've since taken it off my carrier because of how rare it is that I can get a hit from it. It's better used by a fast ship who can get in quickly so there's minimal time to take it down. I didn't mention the spread because I've heard people complain that it does nothing. When I used to use it a loooong time ago I noticed that everything was already in another location when the spread hit, so I figured it was useless. I'll have to test that.
If you get the carrier out of combat then you are now outnumbering your enemy. If you take the combat even a short distance out of the carrier range in the back, then you have a long time with this advantage. "How to kill a carrier" doesn't mean that you take it out first. The best way to take it, or anything down is to do so when it's alone.
And any carrier pilot who only sends his goons in is a tool. They don't do much damage, are difficult to control, and are little more than a nuisance. With the carrier out of battle there are no debuffs, no buffs, no healing, 6 fewer weapons and you don't have to waste your precious skills on the one extra. You can focus better.
I like to think that people are generally more intelligent than you put forth. If you zone in and they're attacking it's obviously not the right time to set this up. Who's the one with no substance here?
If you're in an organized group, not a PuG, then you have plenty of time to set this up prior to the match. If you zone in alone you're already at a disadvantage.
Yeah, as with the tricobalt I didn't have much experience with this when I first wrote the topic. I thought you could zoom out farther. If you're in the thick of things, though, it will certainly work. You probably don't need to get the camera behind them, but zooming out and rotating will likely help.
I find it sad that you're so pessimistic. There's no reason not to take advantage of those who have no patience, and I have played with several Klingons who, for whatever reason, don't stay with the carriers. If they attack you, and the carriers aren't around, then kill them and now you have a huge advantage. If you come to US though then everyone's going to be around. There are many ways to use our speed to your advantage.
Your best bet is always in a premade. That is a big part of the organization I spoke about above. If you want the best chances possible, get in a premade. Barring that, if you can heal the alpha target then you can survive long enough to pick a target and focus on them. Even if you fail the first encounter, you can change your tactics for the second. Set up a target bind.
/bind t team Target --[$target]--
So if your target happens to be Sam, then when you press the T you will say in team chat "Target --[Sam]--". Press t a few times and people might join you on the same target.
So give some of your own. I'm looking for more to add. The best strategy to beat ANYTHING tough is to take out its support fast. The faster you can take a squishy down, the better your chances on the not so squishies.
I never said a real Klingon carrier. That would be as ridiculous to say as it was for you to assume.
You do realize that this game, every other space ST game, and the board games are all based off of naval combat, right? In any space warfare scifi there are nearly always comparisons to naval combat. When someone makes something that is named and behaves like a naval ship, then chances are it's supposed to emulate that naval ship.
*laughs*
It's 24 ships max, 6 of which are useless, 2 of which are easy to avoid, and 16 which are decent but don't do a lot of damage. The ship has 1 fewer Boff spot (an ensign spot) so that's one extra science team that it can't bring on. It can't cloak on a team that always cloaks, so it stands out like a sore thumb. Your team doesn't stay close to you, and you can't get to them. The science ship is significantly more maneuverable (the fed cruiser is 50% more maneuverable than the carrier).
So yeah, I think it's ok.
This entire thread, linked to in signatures and used as a refuting argument of "well just head to this link and see how easy it is to kill a carrier" is made by a carrier pilot himself with NO EXPERIENCE FIGHTING CARRIERS AS A FED IN TIER 5, and the people lauding it seem to be mostly klingon players themselves.
When a fed opens their mouth about anything, they get destroyed by calls of "QQing" or pulling out 20 quotes from their post and ripping them apart.
I can't wait for the giant nerf stick to hit the Klingon carriers...perhaps then they can come up with some "SPECIAL TACTICS" "LEARN THE BO ABILITIES" and "ADAPT" to win in pvp.
Happy flaming!
Point is.. it was fun.... Get a science vessel and equip it have sensor scramble, VMIII, subnu beam, as a sci adm (capt) you get photonic fleet, and then use titans rift or gravity well and you can pretty much get one carrier out.. Its a game.. Ive won, Ive lost.. just have fun..
This whole, nerf this nerf that, give us this since they have that.. is getting old..
Do you know why it was written by a carrier pilot with no experience fighting one? Because no one was doing anything except complaining. Better that a carrier pilot tell you some things that make his game more difficult than no one give anything, right?
And if you're referring to me ripping someone else's post apart in this particular thread, then I think you have it backwards. Mine was ripped apart more than once. I've defended it.
I never said that it was easy to do, nor should it be (though there have been several individuals in game that made it look very easy to me). No ship should be easy to take down unless the pilot sucks or are at a huge disadvantage (eg being focus fired).
And I think the only one lauding it is me
Seriously, this thread was an attempt to gather tactics to kill a carrier, and my post was a starting point. Most of what I've gotten in response from feds however have been cynicism and derision. Rather than sit down and try to discuss good tips on how to work against a carrier they've just attacked the post and have added little to nothing.
And you wonder why Klingons cry QQ? One of us tries to help out, and this is how he's met.
At least Matt is a good sport and is willing to help out. He and I will be getting together some time soon to put some ideas to the test and come up with some concrete answers, with video footage to help out. I like Matt. He and I don't agree on some things, but he's chosen to be a positive influence in this community and I wish more from both sides would follow suit.