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Battleship difficulty

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in The Academy
Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    It takes work, but they are not un-killable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    capthicks wrote: »
    Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.

    Without the right skills, they can be a challenge, but not unstoppable. Those ships like to use Viral Matrix (the purple globe that comes at you), and once they've used that, they'll close and tractor you, then proceed to pound you.

    You do that a couple of options, though. Have your Science Bridge Officer trained in and able to use Science Team, and/or a Tactical BO trained in and able to use Attack Pattern Omega. Both skills can be used while under the effect of those two enemy skills, and will break them.

    If you're not able to get those two skills trained for whatever reason, you'll have to suck up the Viral Matrix, but to evade the Tractor Beam, you'll need to stay outside of 4KM.

    If you think those are a pain, wait until you start operating out of DS9, and come up on Jem'Hadar Keldon's and their Photonic Fleet. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I have fought the jem hadder and cardassians on my other character which is a rear admiral. Nut Im going through it again with a tac officer. My other character is an eng officer
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    In my experience most people having trouble defeating these ships do not have their power settings with weapons maximized. At the balanced power settings Battleships will recharge their shields almost as fast as you can bring them down. This makes taking them down a very lengthy process.

    If you set your weapons power level to 100, your weapon damage will double and you will be able to overcome the battleship's shield recharge very handily. They should go down with very little trouble after that.

    Also make sure you have a Science BOff with Science Team, which can overcome the Battleship's Viral Matrix (that's the pink torpedo that causes a complete lockup of your ship).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Even without attack pattern omega and science team/polarize hull, I pound those damn warbirds back into the stone age. If they had support from a few romulan escorts then I would usually die a couple times. Other than that though they aren't that difficult.

    I do find the hirogen annoying though. They sap your weapon power fast. :mad:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I fly an Advanced Escort and usually they are pretty easy. Shut their shields down and torpedo them to death.

    But sometimes I have one surprise me. I got completely shutdown this morning on one and he blew me up.

    The code they are using is pretty good. A ship can act very differently from fight to fight. Sometimes pretty easy and sometimes they blow you up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    capthicks wrote: »
    Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.

    well if your sticking all your power into shields youll have trouble killing these things. instead of thinking shield recharge think shield rotate instead. move your ship round and keep power to weapons full. also make sure your weapon power stay full for maximum dps.. as soon as that power bar drops you do less dmg.

    this game is hack and slash, you have to be able to hack and slash to get through it, its really that simple. as soon as you start thnking tactical the game gets harder..

    just break the terget shields and fire torps through the oppening easy as pie.

    and dont forget to turn your ship changeing those shields.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Never had a problem with these. Jam sensors, attack pattern alpha and go to town. By the time they can target me, I've just about killed them. Polarize Hull and attack pattern omega go a long way in helping to finish them off.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I didn't have trouble with Hirogen at all and to be honest with Romulans also although the viral matrix is nasty. My strategy wasnt a brain breaker also, all power into weapons and the rest in shields, then just tank them by using defensive BO abilities till they die. I fly cruisers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I've always had an easy time beating Romulan and Hirogen battleships. Actually, aside from Deep Space Encounters, Fleet Actions, and so on...I've only died twice playing regular PvE mission content.

    It should be said, though...with custom power settings and power abilities, I can get up to 125 weapons power, while still maintaining something like 70+ shields. You need offensive firepower and decent protection to slug it out with a Battleship. I do play Cruiser, though, so I can get away with this. Science Vessel and Escorts would need other strategies.

    As others have noted, Science Team will break out out of Viral Matrix - previously it didn't, but they've patched it so all the Team powers can be now used while held. This helps a lot, though I'd already finished most of the Romulan space content by the time that fix came in. Polarize Hull breaks tractor beams.

    But you can get by without either of those powers. It just makes things easier if you have 'em.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    It's the "shut down your propulsion, weapons and shields and fire a heavy plasma torp" trick that really hurts with them. At the time, I was flying a Teir 2 escort ship (so I may as well have been flying a paper aeroplane for all the defence I had) and had to level up to an Akira before I could finish an Apex.

    Knowing what I know now, there's two vital skills you need. The first is the science skill, Jam sensors. The second is the tactical skill, Torpedo High Yield. Couple these two with either full power shunted to weapons or the engineering skill, Emergency power to weapons. If you keep jamming the **** out of the BS it should keep their nasty little trick off your back. Using the beam power to slice through their shields, once you're through, hit them with a high yeild torp and they go down pretty damn fast. I'd also recomend having a few engine batteries to hand incase you do get slapped around so you're able to move out of weapons range and repair.

    f you don't have access to these skills, you could try kiting them. It'll be a lengthy battle but should still work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I like that they finally started creeping the enemies up to the point where they're not crewed by mewling kittens anymore. Now if they'd just do that for the Klingon NPCs...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    capthicks wrote: »
    Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.

    Takes me all of about 10 to 15seconds with my escort...

    if i dont TRIBBLE up ..

    If I do, I can still do it in less than 30seconds.


    11km out pop cannon rapidfire, attack pattern beta, high yield torpedos, and fire on my mark ...star firing immediately when they come into range and then sensor jam them to keep them from hitting me with viral matrix or whatever ... fire my torpedos then back to all phasers ..a few seconds later they are dead. rinse repeat.

    If all that doesnt kill them I wait for the root then after, hit evasive manuevers to get some distance, when that ends turn on them, pop attack pattern alpha, overload beam weapons, and finsh them off.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I routinely melt them like candle wax with my escort.

    You just need to use your skills wisely, and not just the ones with buttons to click. Don't sit still in one place, try to stay out of the firing arc for torps, and pay attention to cooldowns.

    One of the best tricks I've found is to approach the side of the target from a high angle to get in an initial alpha strike. Pop your HYT early, as you approach firing range, so that when you fire the CD has less time to tick before it's ready again. This is good if you use phasers or something else that may negate shields long enough for that salvo to hit hull. Hammer it as you fly past, then jam sensors so you can maneuver and hit again while the enemy is trying to do the same to you. At present, my JS lasts 20 seconds, which is a long time to sit there with your hands tied in combat, and generally enough time to dish out a serious beating.

    You may take a hit from the energy weapons, but can usually avoid his torpedo attacks this way (which are good if you're fighting something using plasma to avoid the dot) and can generally kill the thing in short order.

    I currently use a mix of disruptor and tetryon for the cannons and turrets and one set of quantum torps, which works well. Waiting on respecs to try out different combos of the higher grade weapons. Your mileage may vary, depending on setup.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I actually find the battleships to be the easiest part of the PvE missions. I am Tactical/Escort and I slaughter them before they even get within 5km of me. I use cannon rapidfire, attack pattern beta, high yield torpedos, emergency power to weapons and fire on my mark. They die very quickly with this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Battleships have large amounts of shields and they large regeneration pulses. Do you have to take their shields down fast. That means Attack mode (Weapon power at 100.). One of the better BO skills vs Battleships is Science Team. But the timing on using it is tricky. That's because it will counter Viral Matrix, and it's will also give you an instance bump to your shield levels as well as give some extra damage resistance for your shields.

    Jam Sensors or Polarize Hull ill negate a Tractor Beam, and both have some added benefit as well. (a Placate or extra damage resistance). But you can survive a Tractor Beam if you keep Reinforcing the facing shield (and possible toss in Emergy Power to Shield or Science Team). And keep an eye out for a Heavy Plasma Torpedo. If the damage itself doesn't do you in, the Plasma Fire DoT might do it. At RA5, those procs can be going 250+ pts a tick. Those add up quick.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I run a cruiser as well and although it does take me a bit, slugging out a battleship is usually rather fun. (Until they tag you with Viral Matrix - life sucks for a bit)

    They are big lumbering beasts. I use the Attack power setting, and just keep strafing across them. Anytime I run tail to nose or side to side, I drop off some mines in my wake, turn for broadside phaser/disruptor hits. If I can keep turning enough, throw a quantum torp in. I do not worry with the throttle much - push it all the way up, and leave it there.

    Make another 'strafe run' and keep doing so. When you see a shield drop, make sure you get a torp in there.

    If you do this in a 'figure 8 pattern' and judiciously use the rotate shields and EPS, it is easy enough to keep your shield strength up high enough on the shields that face the battleship. If you can get set up that you are doing this mainly side to side, it works out really well.

    Save Evasive for when you see a shield drop, so you can quickly turn and throw a torp in the side.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I run an escort and have few problems with warbirds, Hirogen ships are even easier. Its pretty easy in a heavy escort but I was even able to take down warbirds in a T2 escort with a little work.

    If you use your CDs correctly you should have shields down and a HYT into them before closing into range where they can mess with you.

    another suggestion for fighting against cruiser class ships (battleships are just big cruisers), avoid the broadside hit them at the fore or aft (preferably aft), if you pass a battleships broadside your gonna get it from all his energy weapon banks at once and decimate your shields. Kinda like how you should try to hit escorts from the side or aft to avoid the cannon firing arcs (though romulan escorts will pop EM and try to keep you in their cannon arcs for as long as possible).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I play a tac in a science ship and I have no problems with any Battleship. I use sci against their weapons, tacheon beam against shields, pop viral matrix, reverse shield polarity to withstand their alpha with no damage while waiting for the viral to creep its way over, do alpha and beam overload then weapons battery to recharge quick, by this time their shield is usually down and I go to town with quantums.

    When I'm playing with a friend who has multiple jam sensors, neither of us ever get hit much.

    I also have my science configured with 3 forward dual beam phasers with power set to full weps. I have 2x 2.2EPS devices and my weapon power never goes below 90.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    capthicks wrote: »
    Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.


    Maximum Space Bar gets them eventually
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Stefx73 wrote: »
    Maximum Space Bar gets them eventually

    Go to autohotkey.com and get the product, assign the delete key to fire all weapons, then copy in the following script
    ;all words typed after a semi-colon are comments on what the words in the line before it do
    ;if there is no comments your either a programmer and you understand what that line does
    ;or your not and I can't explain to you whats it does in a few words

    F1::Suspend ;this means you can press F1 to pause/unpause the script allowing you to use the spacebar normally
    ;F1 can be changed see post FAQ for details
    #MaxThreadsPerHotkey 2
    Space:: ;do everything below Space everytime I hit spacebar Space can be change see post FAQ
    if Running
    {
    Running := false
    return
    }
    Running = true

    Loop
    {
    Send {Delete} ;hit delete key this should be assigned to fire all weapons/fire all phasers
    sleep, 100 ;wait 100milliseconds (1000 milliseconds = 1 second) 1/10th of a second therefore
    If not Running
    break
    }
    Running := false
    Return

    Script is not mine, but I don't know who the original source is.

    Before getting this I hammered my space bar so much I had to replace the switch. After this I can press the space bar and go get a drink and come back to find several yellow balls and no enemies. (if you do this, zoom out all the way, it only autotargets something that is displayed on screen - and never ever try this against a battleship or science ship)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think they're fine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    capthicks wrote: »
    Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.

    The main issue new people have with these ships is these are the first ships that actually fight back.

    With the proper skills, killing these will be just as easy as all the ships you fought leading up to them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    capthicks wrote: »
    Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.

    Heavy Escort .. 2x Dual Phaser Beam Banks mk VI with 1x Phaser Relay mk vi.. Quantum Torpedo launchers mk vi with Zero Point Quantum Chamber mk vi.

    Tactical Captain, Tyken's Rift, High Yeild IIi, Attack Pattern Alpha I, Security Team II, Mark Target all buffed at once (and Fire at Will if you have it).

    Efficient Impulse Engines .. skill points spent in weapons for Projectiles and beams / Phasers and Quantums .. maxed the skills.

    Power settings 80 / 70 / 25 / 25

    Race towards target.. and drop full impulse power back to normal at range 15.. cruise to target at 1/4 impulse. get to range 9.75 and unleash Tyken's Rift.. buff all phasers and then fire them.. pops a shield in about 3 seconds.. when you fire phasers, pop High Yeild III.. count to 2, fire High yeild.. watch the BB pop.

    Total time.. 8 seconds to kill Rom and Reman Battleships (or any other ship in game).. Dreadnaughts on the other hand take some work.

    Using this tactic.. you never get into Tractor or Viral Matrix range since they pop way before you get to them.

    If you are one to get in close, make sure to have Polarize Hull and Science Team to break Viral Matrix and Tractors.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    capthicks wrote: »
    Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.

    Well, they ARE battleships. Those are kinda sorta designed to be hard to kill dontcha know.

    That's one of my petpeeves with this game. That we're ABLE to constantly and consecutively destroy battleships in every ship we have, including the Miranda. Ok, different races have different strengths. What one race considers a battleship is, to Starfleet, maybe a frigate. But the BIG races? Klingons, Hirogen, Romulans? You know, Starfleet's peers? THEIR battleships should be rare, and should require either numbers to take down, great luck, or the lovechild of Captains Sysko and Kirk whose nanny was Worf.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    kamui wrote: »
    Well, they ARE battleships. Those are kinda sorta designed to be hard to kill dontcha know.

    That's one of my petpeeves with this game. That we're ABLE to constantly and consecutively destroy battleships in every ship we have, including the Miranda. Ok, different races have different strengths. What one race considers a battleship is, to Starfleet, maybe a frigate. But the BIG races? Klingons, Hirogen, Romulans? You know, Starfleet's peers? THEIR battleships should be rare, and should require either numbers to take down, great luck, or the lovechild of Captains Sysko and Kirk whose nanny was Worf.

    It's worse, you know. It creates complete mutual absurdity.

    On F-side, we take down Negh'var's in Mirandas.

    On K-side, they take down Sovereigns and Typhoons in tier 1 BoPs.

    So, the Miranda is better than the best the KDF have to offer, but the B'rel bird of prey is better than the best that Starfleet has to offer?

    Keep pondering on that, and you'll know what your computer feels like when it tries to divide by zero.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    And thus the problem with scaling the enemy to match your strength instead of dealing in absolute numbers, causing gaming in the order of instance entry.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Battleships from any race roll over to my tac/escort. The're rather anti-climatic when encountered in Kill X/Y missions.

    I'll tell you what gave me pause for the first time in ages, a freakin' -10 Jupiter Class Dreadnaught. I was shocked when it obliterated me with a THY III volley, just like good old days of OB. The final battle was pretty epic, a bloody tooth & nails furball that saw both ships battered, I mean just hammered, to within an inch of their hull. I was actually forced to make strategic decisions such as holding off on HE so my Go Down Fighting could do that more damage.

    More please!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Opening Volley -> Jam Sensors -> Blast Blast Blast -> Viral Matrix -> Blast Blast Blast -> Fly away from wreckage

    The photonic fleets crack me up. There's nothing like watching someone's own holograms blast them from all sides after a nice Sensor Scramble.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    capthicks wrote: »
    Is it just me or does other people have trouble defeating the romulan d'deredex ship and hirogen apex battleships. I think they went overboard on making those as difficult to destroy as they are.

    Forget that; play against a Klingon ship in pvp that is literally invisible the entire fight and jams your sensors. So not only can you not target the ship attacking you, you can't see it either. Imagine having your shields just disappear from different angles and you don't even know what direction the damage is coming from...

    Yeah, did that earlier today -- battleships got nothing on exploiting Klingon pvp'ers.
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