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If all you do is spam hold/expose...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
.. you should delete yourself an head over the aion! these games love nothing more then gimps who cant pvp an need to use cheap tactics to replace any form of skil! thank you this is brought to you by citam, an other ******s who cant do anything but spam this attack over an over again! gods i hope they tone that TRIBBLE down at some point or pvp here is gonna be about as active as Lotro was.. an about as relevent at least ground wise..
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cool story bro.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think hold/expose is a pretty cool guy. eh kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything...


    honestly - ground pvp is silly exactly because of that mechanic :P which is why alot of us never even been there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    nobody does ground pvp specifically because it is completely broken. Have you looked at the queue times? nobody does it. expose/exploit needs to be removed from ground pvp.....hell just turn it into an FPS. I don't even like FPS, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun to play than the current garbage implemented. at least an FPS system would free our skill points for ship skills.


    Short of that. we need a system that allows all skill sets to actually be helpful. what good is a healer if you get one shot in a matter of seconds? whats the point of having any of our abilities for that matter if all you need to do is spam expose/exploit?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    vinak wrote: »
    nobody does ground pvp specifically because it is completely broken. Have you looked at the queue times? nobody does it. expose/exploit needs to be removed from ground pvp.....hell just turn it into an FPS. I don't even like FPS, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun to play than the current garbage implemented. at least an FPS system would free our skill points for ship skills.


    Short of that. we need a system that allows all skill sets to actually be helpful. what good is a healer if you get one shot in a matter of seconds? whats the point of having any of our abilities for that matter if all you need to do is spam expose/exploit?

    There is a solid community of ground PvP players, of which I am one.

    The mechanics of which you speak are not really as cheap as you say, you just need to find a way around them, which really means sticking with a team. Just like space PvP, ground PvP is a team game that requires everyone to work together and support one another.

    If someone on your team is held/exposed, you use whatever abilities you can to try and shut down anyone who might choose to exploit that opening. It requires thought and teamwork, which is awesome and fun :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hope you get thicker skin, cause highly doubt they gona stop any time soon.Ever played fps games...often they need to put in limitations cause of such things.Like the bunny hoppers in the bf series!:(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The system is usable.

    The problem is with Engineers and Science officers.

    Their exploit damage needs to be reduced by 50% and it would solve one of the key fundamental problems with class balance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Getting held on nearly every hit is utter BS and not fun.

    It is not surprising that people just run in to die their 25 times and leaves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ninjaboy wrote: »
    The system is usable.

    The problem is with Engineers and Science officers.

    Their exploit damage needs to be reduced by 50% and it would solve one of the key fundamental problems with class balance.

    I'm making a wild guess you play a tac officer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This isn't just Ground PvP, but Space PvP as well, with the SNB + Viral Matrix exploit. Because it puts players in a permanent lock where they can't even use the recovery abilities to get out of.

    And with Ground Teams, I actually saw a Federation Science Officer do an AoE Expose and 3 Klingons got immediately exposed and disintegrated by the same person within a second. I really fell Cryptic should keep exploses and exploits out of PvP, as well as many of these abilities. We never saw them in Trek, and it doesn't give Cryptic the excuse to put them in STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The hold/expose/exploit system is really fine imo. Reducing the hold time from being exposed a little would be nice, but the real problem with ground pvp is the weapon switching exploit.

    I'm not talking about switching between the two equipped weapons you have, but switching out weapons from your inventory to avoid the cool-down on the secondary fire. That makes ground pvp kind of silly where a single macro-warrior can one-shot a crowd of people.

    Fix it so split-beams aren't the only reasonable weapon to carry and fix it so you can't dodge the cool-down on your abilities.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    And with Ground Teams, I actually saw a Federation Science Officer do an AoE Expose and 3 Klingons got immediately exposed and disintegrated by the same person within a second. I really fell Cryptic should keep exploses and exploits out of PvP, as well as many of these abilities. We never saw them in Trek, and it doesn't give Cryptic the excuse to put them in STO.

    I have done that as well, but I have also done it on a tactical and engineering officer as well. It is rare, but that is the nature of a random system.

    Really, the only thing that needs to be changed a bit is the stun from being exposed by a weapon/kit. A two-three second stun might be acceptable in this case, but the full duration stun that we have now is just crazy. Sure, it adds some awesome tactical team play, but I think the same feel could be accomplished with a shorter stun.

    The stun pistol is kind of OP though...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    They just need to add immunity timers after you've been exposed/stunned so if you survive it they can't just spam another. AND MAKE THEM ACTUALLY WORK (looks at the 'immunities' already in the game that don't function half the time).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Anxiety wrote:
    They just need to add immunity timers after you've been exposed/stunned so if you survive it they can't just spam another. AND MAKE THEM ACTUALLY WORK (looks at the 'immunities' already in the game that don't function half the time).


    What the have now is a diminishing returns systems, as far as I can tell. It works, but it usually isn't that noticeable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Thrishmal wrote: »
    What the have now is a diminishing returns systems, as far as I can tell. It works, but it usually isn't that noticeable.

    Isn't that noticeable = might as well not exist. Having played WAR and other games like it, I fail to see why it's so hard to slap a big ol' 10-15 second immunity to holds buff on people after they break out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Anxiety wrote:
    Isn't that noticeable = might as well not exist. Having played WAR and other games like it, I fail to see why it's so hard to slap a big ol' 10-15 second immunity to holds buff on people after they break out.


    Well, it does come in handy if they try and CC you constantly through the fight, but people usually don't live long enough for them to truly kick in.

    I think a system with a 15-20 second timer would be nice. First CC is full, second is half time, and the third is immune/very limited. This might actually be what they have though, I haven't paid close enough attention.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    rofl, QQ about holds and cc in general, what are you trying to do, to make players conform to ur way of playing. I don't think players pay to play to play ur way. If you take away the cc, u just gimped the science and engineers, or u just made them what you want them to be ez targets for your tactical. Or Maybe u just want Science to only heal, and engineers to build things nothing more or nothing less.

    I play an Star Fleet Admiral (tact) and Capt (science), w/ a Klingon Capt (tactical)

    You know what, I don't cry, I don't whine, I don't come to the board hoping the Devs would read your pathetic post. I play the game the way I want to with the abilities the Devs put into the game.


    Players like you remind me of the cry babies from WoW...from rogue stun locks, to warlocks fear and dots. Nothing but crying, and yet, here I am showing the class what can counter what, and who gets the last laugh. Why? because I enjoy the game, I have fun,win or lose.


    You get rooted, held, stunned, and you don't like it, don't ground pvp, all you are doing is getting urself worked up over a game. Its like the kid who keeps going back for those cookies in the cookie jar, even though he knows he is going to get punished. PvP is sweet, you are going to keep coming back, despite the cc, you like it, you enjoy it, have fun, don't get emotional. Its a game. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Anxiety wrote:
    I'm making a wild guess you play a tac officer.

    I play all three. Sci is my favorite on the ground atm but Eng is a close second.

    It seems like every other Stasis Field is a one shot.

    Who even needs a Tac with that kind of POWA!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    This isn't just Ground PvP, but Space PvP as well, with the SNB + Viral Matrix exploit. Because it puts players in a permanent lock where they can't even use the recovery abilities to get out of.

    And with Ground Teams, I actually saw a Federation Science Officer do an AoE Expose and 3 Klingons got immediately exposed and disintegrated by the same person within a second. I really fell Cryptic should keep exploses and exploits out of PvP, as well as many of these abilities. We never saw them in Trek, and it doesn't give Cryptic the excuse to put them in STO.

    what? you never seen that red shirt get vaporized?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=121866

    Take a look at the comprehensive ground PVP discussion thread. There's some stuff there about holds/exposes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    .. you should delete yourself an head over the aion! these games love nothing more then gimps who cant pvp an need to use cheap tactics to replace any form of skil! thank you this is brought to you by citam, an other ******s who cant do anything but spam this attack over an over again! gods i hope they tone that TRIBBLE down at some point or pvp here is gonna be about as active as Lotro was.. an about as relevent at least ground wise..

    Let me guess. You took all Space abilities, right? Probably ignored skills like Stubborn because you wanted to spike your Space combat abilities. Had you really paid attention you would have noticed there's a rather complex set of different holds and different hold resists, and you probably could have found one that made this not so agonizing.

    Also, I think we'd all have been much more impressed with a thoughtful, more rational discourse than a "I can't win therefore everything is fail!" self-agrandizement.

    Love you, but you gotta step up your game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ninjaboy wrote: »
    I play all three. Sci is my favorite on the ground atm but Eng is a close second.

    It seems like every other Stasis Field is a one shot.

    Who even needs a Tac with that kind of POWA!

    Stasis field is kinda weak. Fragile hold. Annoying, but one stray energy blast and you're free.

    The good sci kit is medic. Practically unkillable without a full team focus firing you. But it has no offensive capability, so all you can do is use an expose rifle and pray you get lucky.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    STO's ground PVP is well done! There is the issue with spawning in a mass of enemy at times, but overall with all the abilities and different weapon tactics...it makes for a very skill required game. If you stand out in the open constantly, you will get exposed and then ..sizzled. The people that look for thier teammates , use cover, know how to switch weapons , and KNOW where to run to when you do get seperated , make out the best. I see wayyyyy too many people not even looking for other teammates on the map ...like they dont even see it . I really doubt most are just trying to die fast , they just arent all too experienced with a FPS kinda atmosphere. THe holds, the exposes, the then exploits.....Those are all what make STO's ground PVP so special!! There is nothing more exhilerating than doing a quick ....expose ( lucky sometimes- 10% chance on each expose tactic) then switch quick ( ok maybe not so quick- there is a slight delay with just about every action) to your expoit weap and .....zzzzttt- ahhhhhh. IF they took that out it would lose it's appeal . You people that complain about one shot kills have been playing too many x-box games or something ...Try Worldwar2 online if you wanna REALLY see how one shot kills are * grins* .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Anxiety wrote:
    Stasis field is kinda weak. Fragile hold. Annoying, but one stray energy blast and you're free.

    The good sci kit is medic. Practically unkillable without a full team focus firing you. But it has no offensive capability, so all you can do is use an expose rifle and pray you get lucky.

    You're not using Stasis Field right then...

    All you need is one shot when you stack exposes with it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    :mad:
    DVanceJr wrote:
    Let me guess. You took all Space abilities, right? Probably ignored skills like Stubborn because you wanted to spike your Space combat abilities. Had you really paid attention you would have noticed there's a rather complex set of different holds and different hold resists, and you probably could have found one that made this not so agonizing.

    Also, I think we'd all have been much more impressed with a thoughtful, more rational discourse than a "I can't win therefore everything is fail!" self-agrandizement.

    Love you, but you gotta step up your game.


    Actually, the ground resists are broken. Made a Klingon once solely for Ground PvP with the various resist Traits and he still got Stasis'd/Exposed/Vaporized like no tomorrow. :rolleyes:

    They need to add a a huge default resist to any form of crowd-control for Player Characters in comparison to Non-Player Characters, 'cause this is really ruining Ground PvP. Either that or give us Tacticals some spamable Expose powers, too! :mad:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Iv'e seen someone really good in every class in ground PVP , Nausi. Cryptic did a good job with balancing out the different classes, considering how many different types of actions are going on in the game. If your Tact. you have stealth and so many are good with that. I have yet to get my tactical guy in PVP. I'm looking forward to delving into the tactics on him. Science and Engineering are both fun and effective :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ninjaboy wrote: »
    You're not using Stasis Field right then...

    All you need is one shot when you stack exposes with it.

    Pray tell, how does one 'stack' exposes? Do you even know what an expose is?

    Hint: Look at all your abilities and weapons, and see how many say 'chance to expose'.

    Hint 2: It's probably almost all of them unless you are a healer/buffer.

    If you ask for a third hint I'll have to slap you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Idk, IMO, ground is blanced and unblanced simply because it all depends on luck as well as skill. That science guy who exposed 3 people and killed 3 people got lucky. Any class can get lucky and expose/exploit multiple people. My other problems with ground pvp is expose spam/removal ( science ) ,weapon malfunction (enginner) and the two shoting( tacticals) who can kill you without a expose and do 3-5 times as much damaged as any other class/player when unchecked. Positioning and teamwork are extremly important but so is luck/expose( I mean you can basically just change the word expose to lucky). Soo basically, everyone is OPed when they are lucky and UPed when they are unlucky and the fact that the only viable weapon is a split beam and some expose and the inventory weapon switching....ehh, tends to become rather silly. With that said, I have never played a game before where the tip of my middle finger became numb because it is so important I am in the right spot at all times ( i'm not a big fps fan).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DVanceJr wrote:
    Let me guess. You took all Space abilities, right? Probably ignored skills like Stubborn because you wanted to spike your Space combat abilities. Had you really paid attention you would have noticed there's a rather complex set of different holds and different hold resists, and you probably could have found one that made this not so agonizing.

    Honestly, I went all space traits on my character (I wasn't expecting to enjoy ground PvP so much when I started), and I haven't noticed any problems handling ground PvP without ground traits. I HAVE noticed ground traits on opponents that I thought, "hey, that'd be helpful," but to be honest, I haven't seen any traits that add enough benefit that they'll tip the scales one way or another.

    Edit: Oh wait, I play a joined trill, so I think maybe they have one required ground skill -- maybe hyper metabolism. Can't remember, and can't check since I'm at work.

    Edit 2: Just in case anyone wonders what *I* think matters most in ground PvP (and I doubt you do ;)), first and foremost, your teammates, second your selected kit, third your shield and armor, and last, your weapons. Strangely enough, I still run into people in PvP who appear to be wearing kits from a tier or two back, which confuses me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hold Timers are currently broken.

    You have different timers for root, stasis field Hold, other types of Hold. You can watch the countdowns on them somehow magically disappear, and then you can get held again and again. I ground pvp constantly and experience this all the time.

    There is also some batleh exploit where your hold timer keeps increasing rather than counting down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Anxiety wrote:
    Pray tell, how does one 'stack' exposes? Do you even know what an expose is?

    Hint: Look at all your abilities and weapons, and see how many say 'chance to expose'.

    Hint 2: It's probably almost all of them unless you are a healer/buffer.

    If you ask for a third hint I'll have to slap you.

    I like your quote and I tend to enjoy your posts but I don't understand how you did not get what he was trying to say. You have never had a science guy lead with stasis than use the rest of their kit, science abilities and expose weapon? Its like flipping a coin. Depending on traits and so on, your looking at about a 50 percent chance to expose after all said abilities are used. The goal is to keep stasis up and not damage break it ( untill you have to) and once they are exposed..... well you know what happens next. Ive used this and had it used on me and it CAN be " oh i'm stasised....oh i'm exposed... oh im dead" no questions asked. However, if they are unlucky they now have to run because they just used all their abilities. This can be very dynamic when we are not just looking at a 1v1 situation but again, all these mechanics are solemnly based on luck.
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