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Ground PVP - Proof of lack of balance

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
proofw.jpg

5 vs 2 and in the last 3 minutes it turned into a 5 vs 3.
During the match we were a lot of times focusing fire on 1 klingon engineer, 5 guys shooting at 1 that died sooo slowly, until dieing still getting exposes on us and getting 1-2 kills before dieing.

How can the engineer class get such a staying power and damage at same time???

Cryptic, you figure this out.. is it the engineer class OP, are there exploits of the game mechanics? Is there some hidded buff within the klingon faction?

I am asking all this because at this moment, in ground combat klingons win 99% of the matches,with scores like 40 to 5.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    uhh....engineer= tank
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ground pvp uh?

    Lack of balance?

    Don't know; but .... since it's ground; no ships are involved. No officers are involved... just your character; his weapons; and skillset. And the player's skills.

    Except from starting races; everything is identical on both sides.

    Kits? same.
    Weapons? same.
    Captain ground skills? same.

    You just found a team that sucked so badly they couldnt fight correctly against 3 people? Don't tell me you had NO engineer at all on your team; I guess you'd even have at least 3.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    18 deaths? Seriously? That tells me that you were either suiciding and feeding them for the purpose of this "proof" thread, or you don't know what cover is. In either case, what hivewasp said is something you need to read over a few times. And then read again.

    When everyone on your team has an average of 5.5 deaths and you have 18, you should probably focus on ways to eliminate feeding the other team and realize you being sub-par doesn't make them OP.

    This should help:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=124515&highlight=ground+pvp+guide

    Youre welcome.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i can see from the scoreboard what happend, he has the most deaths on his team because he is probably the only one who didnt quit the match after the first few deaths, there are so many ppl who join, look at the score, then run.

    but there is no difference between a fedbear engineer and a kling(pwn you)on engineer, except for the fact that most fedbears like to stand in the open and spawn turrets instead of shooting back.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Had a match earlier today, 3 klinks vs. 5 feds, spawned in that way from the start. We decided to give it a go since it was the assimilated cruiser map, which tends to be a little less (very leetle) blobby. We actually managed to hold our ground pretty well under the first few waves, suprisingly so....

    Ended up winning it 40/5, still only 3 of us and none of the feds quit.

    No idea what the hell we were doing so right, but I laughed myself silly. And no, the other team didn't suck, nothing I saw them doing was terribly 'wrong'. We just held on as long as we could, and it worked beautifully.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yesterday I ended up against a really bad Fed team on my last Klingon alt and I had no trouble butchering them when the odds were on their side, because they were running around and lining up like idiots while I played to survive.

    If you play smart, know when to retreat in order to let your shield come back up and use cover then you shouldn't have a problem dealing with two or three guys rushing in without a plan, especially if everyone else in your team is playing the same way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As unbalanced as space PvP may be, Klingons and Federation get exactly the same stuff in ground PvP, so if you lose you just stink and that's all there is to it.

    I'll give you that, there are a few kits that make characters practically unkillable, especially some of the medic kits that cleanse expose every second automatically, but that's not a Klingon vs. Fed issue, that's primarely an issue with the fact that expose/exploit does absurd amounts of damage while regular attacks/powers don't do jack squat, so a high survivability character who doesn't get instantly squashed by an exploit will always win in the long run.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    it happens, no doubt about it. When I play my klingon faction toon, and spawn with one other vs. 5 feds, well we definitely hold'em down (red team for the win)

    But there has been situation, where I would be up against 2-3 fed engineers...and I'll say all those gizmo's and gadgets on the ground is annoying. I'm either wasting a shot on them, or taking 3-4 more shots to kill the player, then the usual 2, or 1 if i use a power cell.

    Even though u can put points into ground and still be somewhat ok in space battles, but if you have no points or just the basic 9 from start, u r not for ground pvp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yeah, sorry OP, but this is a skill/teamwork issue.

    I have spawned into similar matches a number of times. Klingons tend to have better natural teamwork and more familiarity with ground PvP than the normal Fed. This means we can usually put up a much more solid fight with fewer numbers.

    I actually suspect you all were not playing aggressively enough, though there is no way for me to tell since I was not there. When you have the number advantage like that, press the enemy and they will have a much harder time holding their position. Of course, don't be the only one pushing forward, or you will just get a high death count.

    But yeah...sucks that you all got butchered. I am sure those Klingons were having a grand time though. When we are down like that is usually when we have the closest and most enjoyable fights :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ya ive won 2v5 before it basically comes down to knowing how to not play like a complete idiot which alot of people tend to do. 2 good players cant roflpwn 5 morons any day.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This is a classic.

    This is the exact sort of poster who comes in with 'proof' being their own lack of clue, trying to make a case that there is something baseline unfair.

    Oh my god, engineers must be OP.

    I can't wait until fed vs fed space pvp, this kind of TRIBBLE is going to be all over these forums.

    OP, do us all a favor and never speak again. Ever.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    08098 wrote:
    i can see from the scoreboard what happend, he has the most deaths on his team because he is probably the only one who didnt quit the match after the first few deaths, there are so many ppl who join, look at the score, then run.

    but there is no difference between a fedbear engineer and a kling(pwn you)on engineer, except for the fact that most fedbears like to stand in the open and spawn turrets instead of shooting back.

    Actually youre wrong about your first point, the OP specifically says it was 5v2 up until the end of the game when it was 5v3. So no, it wasn't him alone getting his TRIBBLE kicked, it was him TRIBBLE his team by charging in, not knowing that the Klingons he was fighting aren't the same NPCs that just stand there and take shot after shot.

    Hopefully he reads the thread I linked, as he apparently needs all the help he can get.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Two immediate flaws in the OP's screenshot:

    #1: He has no hypos slotted. I see he has shield fixers but seriously, use hypos. Shields repair themselves just fine but health does not.

    #2: He's using a melee Tactical kit. Leg Sweep is fun and all but if you really want to start winning, I suggest using Squad Leader or Security Protocol kits and stick with your teammates so you can be buffing them. Fire Team kit is okay too. Operative and Close Combat kits are not that good for these 5v5 deathmatches. (Stealth kits might be good on some objective map where sneaking around might actually do you some good but in a deathmatch it's not that good.)



    Just the fact that he died 18 times and only healed for 1043 is a major indicator. He's reckless and he doesn't heal himself enough.

    Oh, and he's not grouped.

    And his chat bar is tiny which indicates he probably NEVER groups.



    So yeah. OP is fail.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Oh dear lord, leg sweep? Why in the world would you use that? How is it different, in any way, from just spamming the melee '3' attack which EVERY weapon has?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Thrishmal wrote: »
    Yeah, sorry OP, but this is a skill/teamwork issue.

    ...and I'd say mostly teamwork...

    Sure it helps if you have a good balance of expose/exploits, and the skills you have support each other, but I'd put at least 80% of any match on working together rather than trying to be the hero. It's so easy to get picked off if you are on your own.

    Having said that 1 v 1 is occasionally fun and I'd like to see it implimented in the game sometime.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The only valid reason for having leg sweep is to keep stealth on the bar. Stealth is a very good way of setting up flanking.

    Lunge gives a free exploit power, too.

    His power choice isn't what I would complain about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I am going to assume that the character both knew exactly what he was doing and, this is the really, really big part, probably actually spent some skill points in ground combat, something few people do, thus boosting his skills to levels you probably couldn't even imagine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    OP probably had hypos in one of his four device slots and ran out. I'm guessing that's where the 1K healing came from. and judging from his choice of other consumables, they were probably small or medium hypos.

    you should have two slots loaded with hypos, minimum. and they should be at least medium and/or large (small hypos are worthless). and if you run out, you should have plenty more in your bag ready to go right away. not between matches, right away. I'm a science officer, typically using a medic kit with 4 heal abilities, and I *still* have 2 device slots filled with hypos, and spares in my bag. they're that important.

    ditch the small shield charges, too. they're a waste of a device slot. there's no reason to blow your cooldowns for anything less than a 66% shield or health recharge.

    -ken
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Oh sorry, that might be lunge rather than leg sweep. I forget. It's still one of those kits I never use. (Lunge is arguably even worse than leg sweep since it's a low damage "Exploit" attack whose main purpose appears to be to waste an expose.)

    Incidentally, I consider the Security kit to be my "A-Game" kit. That's the one I switch to when we actually run up against a tough group. Overwatch plus the Draw Fire buff is very nice for buffing allies. The Draw Fire resist buff has a relatively wide radius too. Squad Leader is a close second for my favorite group kits though and that's the one I use most often (because grenades are fun! and it still has Overwatch, plus Rally Cry is nice).


    I don't really like cloak-flanking, by the way. In these narrow corridor maps you're probably going to have to just run through the enemy in which case you'll either get spotted by a science guy or hit with incidental split beam fire (which is interesting...nobody can see you but the split beam knows you're there).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I always thought it was pretty insane that Eng's and Sci's effectively get the same "one shot" exploit abilities as say the DPS class like a Tac Offier who is far more squishy and less durable.

    T5 Engs do reign supreme teamwork or no teamwork.

    They have the full pack of survivability, CC, and damage.


    Honestly if they just reduced the exploit damage done by Engs and Scis by 50% it would probably be ok.


    Teamwork is separate from that issue so let's not confuse things.

    Obviously you always want people healing, remove exposes, buffing, etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    but...this makes no sense.

    dont feds like, do ground missions? and practice on NPC's?

    maybe that's the issue....make ground combat harder for Feds, train them up a bit, then send em our way.

    i'd love to see your run-of-the-mill Fed in a Halo match....:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    That's what I always conclude too:

    Ground PvE must just be waaay too easy in this game. I get exposed, some Fed exploit shoots me and does less than half my health. Like what is that? A sniper rifle from T2?

    Some other Fed who shall remain nameless linked their armor in chat. It was a shiney purple armor....for melee resists. Get hit with a lot of melee, do you? Perhaps the energy resist armor would be better.


    I agree with making ground PvE a lot harder just to try and get the Feds trained up a bit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Halo match....:D

    HALO?

    Of all the FPS games you could reference based on skill Halo has to be the worst lol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ninjaboy wrote: »
    HALO? Of all the FPS games you could reference based on skill Halo has to be the worst lol.

    actually, take out the vehicles, and both sides have roughly the same weapons...same armor.....

    i was talking about levelling the playing field for them. a lot of Halo boils down to skill, and knowledge of the map.
    ANOTHER thing feds seem to have very very little of...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    actually, take out the vehicles, and both sides have roughly the same weapons...same armor.....

    i was talking about levelling the playing field for them. a lot of Halo boils down to skill, and knowledge of the map.
    ANOTHER thing feds seem to have very very little of...


    I just played on the Fed side in a pug match where most of them only healed themselves and couldn't break 1k damage.

    They were pretty helpless but in their defense they probably only bought the game for PvE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In the majority of PvP matches as both a Klingon and a Federation, the main factor in winning is simple Teamwork.

    Sticking together and supporting one another is going to get you the win than acting individually. Especially for those Rambos and Braveheart types that don't like to group up and charge in hopes they can get an quick kill.


    If there is any Nerfing, it would be with the Medics. I've honestly see one Medic pull off an Area Expose and finished them off with a split beam (2 moves). And that Gravitational and Thermal Vents are a pain in the Impulse Engines. Wish Cryptic had them just be medics and support, not a science soldier.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    In the majority of PvP matches as both a Klingon and a Federation, the main factor in winning is simple Teamwork.

    Sticking together and supporting one another is going to get you the win than acting individually. Especially for those Rambos and Braveheart types that don't like to group up and charge in hopes they can get an quick kill.


    If there is any Nerfing, it would be with the Medics. I've honestly see one Medic pull off an Area Expose and finished them off with a split beam (2 moves). And that Gravitational and Thermal Vents are a pain in the Impulse Engines. Wish Cryptic had them just be medics and support, not a science soldier.

    Engs either need their survivability reduced or their exploit damage reduced.

    Sci need their exploit damage reduced.


    Outside of that it's not too bad. Yes teamwork does help but that's another issue altogether.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    In the majority of PvP matches as both a Klingon and a Federation, the main factor in winning is simple Teamwork.

    Sticking together and supporting one another is going to get you the win than acting individually. Especially for those Rambos and Braveheart types that don't like to group up and charge in hopes they can get an quick kill.


    If there is any Nerfing, it would be with the Medics. I've honestly see one Medic pull off an Area Expose and finished them off with a split beam (2 moves). And that Gravitational and Thermal Vents are a pain in the Impulse Engines. Wish Cryptic had them just be medics and support, not a science soldier.


    Even though I would hate it, I somewhat suspect a number of science abilities will lose their expose chance over the coming months :(

    Last night I was in a 1v5 match, me being the one. Before anyone else was able to join the map, I had gotten the score to 18-7, me having the 18. For awhile there the Feds actually stuck together, but lucky for me science abilities are pretty good at breaking up groups :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well as I remember the fight he fought pretty well in the beginning. I actually think two of the times I died it was to him. He just got mad when we focused him at the end. He then gave up and came running to us to get killed.

    Fact is it was teamwork. Trigger and I love to PvP and we kit-up based on who we are fighting. We change our fighting styles/kits based on who we are figting. Basically you will not get the same fight from us every time. It is all about tactics and teamwork. As far as OP well I'll leave that to the Devs. We use the tools we have and I might add Feds have the same exact tools.

    Good hunting.

    Jo'Two

    Jotoo
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hold spam , and expose on hold/stun attacks and the Stun/hold expose bug are the only things that need to be fixed otherwise its all dandy.
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