AFAICT, tetryons have a 2.5% chance of doing an additional 80 points of damage to enemy shields.
In comparison, phasers have a 2.5% chance to take down a subsystem.
I'm not sure which one to take, frankly. Especially considering the fact that skilling tetryon weapons is 50% more expensive.
Can anyone please shed some light on this for me? Which one of these two did you choose, and are you happy with it? Are the 80 additional points of damage noticeable? Is the percentile chance on the tetryons just a description error? Do they always a bit more damage aginst shields?
Comments
Lets just say that 80 shield is less then a turret bolt in most cases.
Plus, the phaser ability is pretty sweet anyway
-HD
But I'm actually still interested in using tetryon turrets in my escort and was wondering if the 80 damage would compensate for not having spent points in leveling its type of damage instead of using phaser based turrets. Keep in mind too that pvp wise, ship will prolly e stacking resistance to phaser based damage.
So anybody have the math on spec'd damage vesus proc?
Thanks
Don't have any actual math for you, just experience in game.
IU'm a tac captain, currently runnign a T4 escort. My weapons mix currently is 2x Disruptor Dual Cannons, 1x Phaser Dual Beam Bank, 1x Quantum Torp Launcher, and in the rear, 2x Tetryon Turrets. I also have CRF III and I, and do chain them.
The turrets can take down Jem'Hadar Attack Ships by themselves if I get into a furball (swirling dogfight), which happens often with Jem'Hadar. Facing them all the time is BAD, as they like to launch quantum torps at you, so a lot of time is spent maneuvering aaround them to take it easy on the shields. During that time the turreets are eating them. Admittedly, the proc doesn't do much once the enemy's lost it's shield - but getting the shield down is the key, and Tetryons do well at that. The proc seems to happen on a per-bolt basis, and with four bolts/cycle, that can add up to a good amount of procs with CRF running.
Not gonna say that that combo melts faces, but it does to pretty good:)
That sounds logical, but I am having 7800 from Covariant shield on my cruiser, so this wouldnt make a scratch. I just dont believe tetryon is such TRIBBLE, there must be something to it what we dont know about. Tetryon having chance to do 320 damage to shield while phasers having chance disabling them completely... eh...
Just speaking from personal experience on this one...
But there's a 2.5% chance that any one phaser hit will disable any subsystem. There are four subsystems, and any one of them can be disabled for a short period by any one proc of the skill. That makes it a 0.625% chance that you will disable the shields, specifically, on any one phaser hit.
There's also the problem that while the shields are disabled, you cannot do any damage to them at all. The value they go down at, is the value they stay at (I have not been able to confirm whether they will regenerate or not while 'disabled', though I sincerely doubt this is the case), and after the time on the Subsystem Disable finishes, you will once again have to work on disabling that shield facing (which the enemy can and occasionally does reinforce).
Tetyron weapons, on the other hand, do damage to all of the facings at the same time. This reduces the shield total on your facing of choice, and also reduces the total power that your opponent has to reinforce that facing with (by reducing how much is on any other facing), while also providing the benefit that as you move through facings, the additional shield reduction will come into benefit (as some of the work has already been done for you on that facing, plus any from reinforcing). It also has a much higher chance (2.5%) of doing damage specifically to the shields then the phaser does.
Honestly? I'm not, and have not, been impressed with phasers. I personally prefer Plasma weapons, but that's just because the damage proc affects hull and shields as far as I know (and even if it's just hull, that's far more important to me then the shield damage).
Ok, its only for a few seconds but a few seconds with no shields at less than 5 km from a loaded turret battleship = world of pain.
That's still only a 5% chance with 8 phasers of disabling the shields. >> Whereas, with tetyron weapons, it's a 20% chance per volley of inflicting one instance of shield damage, guaranteeing that in addition to the volley fire dropping the shields faster in the first place, that they'll have an increased chance of taking them down faster and keeping them down. There's also a much smaller chance of multiple procs going off at the same time, which while it isn't something you should ever bet money on, is worth considering. The tetyron volley can proc and stack 8 times while the enemy's shields hold (and they likely won't after that) per volley, whereas the phasers have to deal with proc redundancy (the chance that any given subsystem proc will occur twice for the same system in one volley - statistically low odds, but it does lead to wasted procs) in any given volley.
Granted, I'm not saying phasers are BAD, but the math behind getting them just for the Shield Subsystem proc is massively flawed and ridiculous. If you're getting them for the Weapon, Auxillary (turn rate/buffs), and Engine failure chance as well and not relying on getting one specific proc... Then you have a much better argument for it then just getting it for the shield drop like so many people seem to. In that respect, they're much more useful if incredibly random, and you can't exactly blame people for preferring more focused weapon types that aren't as big of a gamble.
It's all personal preference.
Sidepoint: I think I had my thoughts incorrect in the first instance... It's a 10% chance per cycle of the weapon in question, with the proc chance spread out over the number of hits in that cycle (with a beam array, that's 4 hits per cycle), right? If so, that means my internal math is a bit off... but the argument is sound beyond that.
EDIT: Bit of a fix to make it more accurate - sorry about that, still drinking my morning coffee.
It really is.
Though, I haven't gotten my hands on any tetyron personally yet. I may have to look towards fixing that... but, I am rather enamored of the Plasma weapon graphics. Plus, there's just something cathartic about watching an enemy ship burst into big, blue flames.
EDIT: Made clearer. Dude, I suck at being clear today.
I am aware of the associated statistics for phasers - but I most certainly was not aware that tet's had a 20% chance... thank you.
I should probably extrapolate my math on that to avoid confusion. >>
If we assume that for every one Phaser hit, there is a 2.5% chance of any subsystem to be damaged, and there are four subsystems, then we can conclude that there is only a 0.625% chance for any one particular subsystem to be damaged. If there are 8 phasers firing in a synchronized volley, then that 0.625% chance goes up to a total of a 5% chance for any phaser in that volley to cause a proc. If there is a total of a 10% chance total over the entire cycle time of a phaser for the proc to go off, there is then a 2.5% chance of disabling any one specific subsystem in that weapon cycle that becomes a 20% chance per cycle of eight phaser banks.
Tetyron weapons, however, have a 2.5% chance to do 80 damage to each shield facing on every individual tetyron weapon hit. There is no variance on this - there is only one instance of the proc, and when it goes off, there is a 100% chance of it doing that 80 damage. If we increase this to 8 Tetyron beams in the volley, then there is a 20% chance per volley (and an 80% chance per cycle) for at least one of those eight weapons to proc, causing 80 damage to the shields.
There is no limit (other then the number of shots in the volley and cycle, or the shield strength of the opponent [can't do shield damage with no shields present]) to how many times the Tetyron weapons can proc and still have an effect. However, a subsystem can only be disabled once for the duration of the proc (though it may have the ability to refresh procs on hit - that's gonna require some data). Any additional procs (barring timer refreshing) to that subsystem will have no further effect on the target because it's already disabled and not working. The chance for this kind of thing is... beyond my mathmatical ability to explain fully! Because that's going into a whole realm of statistics that I didn't get a chance to take a crack at.
In total... there looks to be a 10% chance per weapon cycle (explained finally as the total number of shots over the firing period of the weapon, plus the time it takes for that weapon to recharge) for the proc to happen. Because phasers instead use 4 individual procs that are all tied to the same chance (that is, the game will determine whether a Subsystem was disabled first, and then roll to see which system is disabled only after it's confirmed that one is - thus making it a 25% chance that any one subsystem will be disabled on that proc, but a 100% chance that one will when it procs), there is more random chance involved in what system is disabled.
...I think I got all of that right. My head is kind of spinning now.
EDIT: Reviewed my post, and realized I forgot to make a clarification that the math for phasers is specifically comparing exact functionality with tetyron weapons, and that if we're not concerned which subsystem is disabled, then the numbers are exactly the same as the proc rate for Tetyron weapons. However, if we're concerned specifically with just dropping shields, then statistically the tetyron weapon will do so in a consistently faster fashion over time. That's kind of an important footnote to make, even though it doesn't change any of my math at all.
I chose Disruptors early as I saw that was the only proc that scaled with my damage. Tetryon's 80 hits on all four shields is always 80. But the 10% extra damage proc form Disruptors will scale when I have four consoles upping Disruptors, Attack pattern Alhpa and Omegea going (not sure if they stack that well though), Cannon Rapid Fire and also helping some Quantum torpedoes hitting the foe.
Any thoughts?
Well, again, it's all personal preference. The proc for Disruptors is, over time, only a 1% increase in total damage (a 10% chance to do 10% more damage equates to 1% total damage increase over time). The plasma proc ignores shields and does direct hull damage when it goes off (and scales with mark), polaron weapons do Power System drain...
BigBadB has an excellent summary and look at Starship Weapons in his signature, and I highly recommend reading it and picking the energy type that appeals to you the most. That's really what matters - even phasers are totally viable in their own way.
That, and some of the buffs are also *slightly* stronger in appearance then others (Phasers/Disruptors have procs that give them long lasting benefits, but Tetyron/Plasma weapons help you destroy ships faster in a direct fashion [straight shield or hull damage] while not being hugely better then Phasers/Disruptors, and Polaron/Antiproton weapons have some devestating effects [or at least Polarons do] but still not OMGMUSTHAVE better. Though I think the differences do sort of warrant an increase in skill point expenditure; But this is just my honest opinion and should be taken as such). Realistically, with the proper skill point expendtiures, they all hurt the same.
You're mostly picking the color and flavor of your ice-cream of death.
There will be much debate on this until/if someone finally cracks the specific math of the secondary effects, but my money is on Cryptic not being stupid.
First, like Yuri said, yeah the secondary effects do scale in the sense that they can be more devastating. Take a system off line for a short time; directly damage the hull; drain power levels for a moderate time - I'd say those progressively get better. However, it is up to you and style. Going for an OMG I KILLED IT IN ONE PASS? I'd say direct damage to hull. Going for a lasting fight? Maybe the power drain. Going for a support role? Phasers combined with subsystem targeting powers equals a damn fine chance that you are messing with their systems on a lot of shots.
Second, Cryptic did make it so the weapon skill trees that cost more relate to the ready availability of the best weapons at those tiers. For example, Purple Mk X phasers I'm told are incredibly hard to come by, if at all - you would only find them in a drop. However, want some Purple Antiproton Mk X arrays/cannons/banks? No problem, several ways to get them, from badges, to mission rewards, to drops.
But also like Yuri said, you can make anything work so just go with your preference. I mean Mk VIII phasers that are purple with 9/9/9 in the skill tree is probably better than Mk X antiproton with 9/9/2 in the skill tree right?
Now, my focus is PvE so this could make a world of difference, but I find just using my specials effectively and maneuvering well allows me to dish out pretty good damage. This is a really small sample size but last night I was able to dominate DPS in my Science Recon ship just using phasers and photons as a Tactical Officer in a group comprised of a Tac Officer in an Assault Cruiser and a Science Officer in a Deep Space science vessel. Both of them were using much more advanced weaponry. But I was able to sustain solid DPS with my beam arrays and land fore and aft launched torpedo strikes (with HYT I x 2) at will on a target.
The science subsystems allowed me to target shields and Viral Matrix seemed to keep a target from doing much about it.
So it seems to me that weapon type is almost certainly secondary to your personal skills, the skills of your BOs and the innate strengths of a hull (and what you put into it).
Ok, just so I don't misunderstand here because I have not used any Tetryon weapons on ships yet. Does any shots from a Tetryon weapon damage all sides of shields equally at the same time? Or do you mean just the 2.5% chance to do so? If the former, then it really is a more powerful weapon that I first thought.
Running entirely off BigBadB's information on the matter... it looks like it does 80 damage to each facing, for a total of 320 damage. So, it's a 2.5% chance to do 320 damage to the target's shields, 240 of which is on facings you're not specifically targetting at that time (but may in the immediate future).
Thinking for down the road however, if you plan on doing Fleet Actions and PVP throughout and at the end of game, I like having a strategy in how I run my ship.
For example, on the Klingon side since I knew PVP was primary focus I thought to myself "What is the biggest threat to Klingons from Starfleet?" and the easy answer was Science Vessels. So I made a BOP Sci Vessel Killer. Plasma weapons to affect hull immediately, since their shields are powerful, lockdown abilities, so on and so on. Have an idea maybe who you want to prey on - a cruiser picking off escorts perhaps? A science vessel disabling cruisers? Look at the your prey's weakness, and exploit that
Ahh, ok. I though you meant one shot did damage to all facings of the shields no matter what and then an added 2.5% to do more damage.
Dood, I wish. That would be awesome, but it seems that the proc is set at 80 damage per facing regardless of mark. Which is still pretty significant in the long run, given shield values for the most part.
Especially if you use turrets, which each fire 4 bolts per cycle, meaning 4 chances to proc
TBH, though, I really don't know if the chance to proc is cumulative or computer per shot. If it's cumulative, than the more shots you fire, the more procs you'd get, If, however, it's calculated on a per-hit basis - well, that would drastically lower the chance to proc on ANY weapon. That 10% chance to proc you mention would drop to 2.5% amnd stay there. There IS a difference, sadly, and we need more data to see if it's per-hit or cumulative.
As mentioned before, I use a combo of disruptor cannons and tetryon turrets - it works pretty well, and I can eat frigates without having to use the front cannons.
Z
Phaser are an opportunistic early in the game, I'm ususally perpendicular to the ships when the shield drop, by the time I activate Beam Overload or ty to turn about, the shields are back online. However when you get more weapon slots on tier ships. That 2 x or 3x changes for a Phaser proc to happen with a typical weapon payload. Those disablements happen a lot more often and I'm in a position to take advantage of them. The same any other type of proc.
As to Tetryon weapons on their own in quanity they do pretty good. But if you add in some other shield drainers, they can be hugely effective. On a Science Ship (mine in particular), Charged Particle Burst will do around 700 pts to shields at my usual power settings. Tachyon Beam I will chew up 50-75 out of all shield for each pulse they do. On top of weapon fire, shields on anything short of a Battleship will be gone very quickly. Even w/o a Science ship, all of these relatively small drains add up when they are all used together.
Yar, really didn't mean to make it sound like the phaser proc was bad. Was a mistake of phrasing on my part, and I really should have been more objective and careful about that sort of thing. You hit it pretty accurately - it's value is about the same as any other proc, because even as the procs advance in tiers they're not quite powerful enough to phase any of the lower tiers out in effectiveness with the same general skill consideration (though they have an increased skill point investment).
Its 80 per side, all together you take 320.