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Fix open sector space with 4 tiny changes

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
If the engine requires that it stays instanced, Cryptic, I propose the following really simple changes.

First off, however, leave the graphics and visual design of sector space EXACTLY like it is. It's fine; it's pretty; it's stellar cartography.

The four changes are these. They're all (I believe) fairly simple and modular, and would greatly improve gameplay in Sector Space for a majority of players.


1st change, very simple: A warp speedometer.
Give us a visible speedometer in sector space on the HUD. Ala this screen shot:



See the "Warp Factor: 0.407"? Give us that in the HUD in sector space. Massive, massive immersion benefit from a teeny change.

2nd change, very simple: Lose the control tower.
Lose the current "Would you like to warp to that sector? Yes/No" pop-up mechanic. If you brush up against the sector or system border and 'invoke' it, flash a "F" warning that isn't game play interrupting that you will warp to Sector or System XYZ by pressing F, or after 30 seconds. If you hit F, or 30 seconds expires with the popup up, you warp to the adjacent sector. If you don't hit F and just fly back off in another direction after 15 seconds, you stay in your current sector.

The biggest annoyance of flying sector space is how annoying that ****ing Benzite is. WOULD YOU LIKE TO WARP? WOULD YOU LIKE TO WARP?

The same mechanic should apply for entering solar systems, but Deep Space Encounters should STILL rip us into them. The 30-second timer should be a toggle option in controls. I'd prefer to default "on", but either way is fine.
Change 2A, very simple: let us go into the Black.

Based on Darkjedi's suggestion below: One extra tweak. Also extend the 'map' or grid beyond the hard border of space in each sector, if possible. Like, we see a big textual wall that says SECTOR BORDER XYZ. Keep the text for navigation visually, but if I fly past that border that invokes the "jump to next system mechanic" let me keep flying off into the black, so that if I look back, I'll see the known sector space in the distance.

Visually this will be great-- I've gone so far off the edge of the edge of the local star cluster, I can see it in the distance, and the whole time I have my "warp to next sector" option up on-screen, so I can't get lost. Even if I somehow do, because of a bug, I still have transwarp. It would also make my idea here motion-wise utterly seamless.

Travel from Sol to DS9 would be this assuming I didn't get ganked by hostiles:
1) Click warp to sector.
2) My warp animation goes off.
3) Load warp-travel animation loading screen--my pretty ship is warping!
4) Arrive in nearby Sol sector map. Since the warp-animation WAS my load screen, seamless.
5) Pull up systems/sector list, pick DS9. Off I go.
6) Fly off the edge of the local sector into the black. I click F or wait 30 seconds if I want to watch it.
7) Load warp-travel animation loading screen--my pretty ship is warping!
8) Arrive in Cardassian sector map. Since the warp-animation WAS my load screen, seamless.
9) I immediately continue on locally to DS9.

3rd change, semi-simple: the extra-galactic warp screen.
NOTE: Requires at least one new art asset. Replace the current extra-sector warp loading screens--all of them--with something like this:



Let us see our ships flying at warp. That's it. If possible, have it say at the top of the page: "En route to sector/system XYZ" based on what you're loading to. This needs to be the loading page every single time we warp anywhere.

4th change, very simple: navigation and star charts.
I have a big computer on my ship that presumably has lots of coordinates in it. Let me search for any system or sector I can reach, or browse to them. If I'm in Sol, and I want to go to DS9, let me set a course for DS9. Or Romulan space. If I make the mistake of AFKing to get a drink or bathroom break en route, and come back to find myself stuck in an and unable to warp out of 10 minute Deep Space Encounter, that's the balance to that power to warp so far.

Requires option #2 to be viable.




That's it. Thoughts?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    (saved for later)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    1. Hover your mouse over the speed throttle. It gives warp speed.

    2. Meh. I'd rather my own crew asked me if I wanted to cross into XYZ sector. I hate the traffic control TRIBBLE, though.

    3. No opinion.

    4. Agreed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    NinetyNine wrote:
    1. Hover your mouse over the speed throttle. It gives warp speed.

    2. Meh. I'd rather my own crew asked me if I wanted to cross into XYZ sector. I hate the traffic control TRIBBLE, though.

    3. No opinion.

    4. Agreed.

    1. I never knew that. As many people probably know about that as know you can hide your armors and kits from your uniform.

    2. Really? That can be a toggle if you want auto-pass through or confirm. I'll modify the post for that.

    3. It's pretty!

    4. Thanks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    #1 - Sure
    #2 - I'd love nothing more than to get rid of the Traffic Control
    #3 - Sounds cool, but sounds like a long term objective for the game per priority
    #4 - A lot of us have been asking for this for a long time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree with all your points.
    I'd also like to see the warp (stars flying passed) on the bridge viewscreen. :)

    P.S. And an estimated time of arrival when u plot a course.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zilag wrote:

    I have a big computer on my ship that presumably has lots of coordinates in it. Let me search for any system or sector I can reach, or browse to them. If I'm in Sol, and I want to go to DS9, let me set a course for DS9. Or Romulan space. If I make the mistake of AFKing to get a drink or bathroom break en route, and come back to find myself stuck in an and unable to warp out of 10 minute Deep Space Encounter, that's the balance to that power to warp so far.

    You do reealize you CAN leave the random enmcouters... your not "stuck" in it.. when you enter you get a dialogbox, simply click the Exit to Sector option and there ya go!! i do this often while they shoot at me and i even goto sector while blown up sometimes, so it's perfectly possible.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    jdb2008 wrote: »
    #1 - Sure
    #2 - I'd love nothing more than to get rid of the Traffic Control
    #3 - Sounds cool, but sounds like a long term objective for the game per priority
    #4 - A lot of us have been asking for this for a long time.

    Re #3, of course. There's a lot that could be done ahead of that, but #1, #2, and #4 are probably much easier.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yes, you can hover over the speed indicator to see how fast you are going. Works with impulse too.

    A little off topic: Does anyone know why "maximum warp" = 7.7ish? Why can't we go to warp 9?

    I don't know, it just doesn't seem very climatic to hear "So-so has sent a distress signal!" and have us go "Plot intercept course, max warp!" and then have us put-put around at the normal warp 7 that we always do anyway :)

    Along those lines, I'd like to see an option for warp 9 with a small debuff for straining the engines after but that is way off topic :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cecil0812 wrote: »
    Yes, you can hover over the speed indicator to see how fast you are going. Works with impulse too.

    A little off topic: Does anyone know why "maximum warp" = 7.7ish? Why can't we go to warp 9?

    I don't know, it just doesn't seem very climatic to hear "So-so has sent a distress signal!" and have us go "Plot intercept course, max warp!" and then have us put-put around at the normal warp 7 that we always do anyway :)

    Along those lines, I'd like to see an option for warp 9 with a small debuff for straining the engines after but that is way off topic :D

    Depends on the ship, and possibly the engines
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    you get faster as you level up (i noticed it is not dependant on engines as i got faster without finding a new impuls engine for a long time)

    my max warp is 8.57 something ...Cmdr. 7

    you notice a slight diffrence if you try to chase a high tier ship in sectorspace with a low one...
    it does not FEEL faster though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Minus number one - since it's already there - I like the whole list.

    Also, for those not in the know, at RADM5, Maximum Warp is 9.66.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Couldnt voyager go warp 9.95?

    That being the fastest one can go before being everywhere in the universe at one time.

    I really like the idea of 3 & 4, both would make the game a little more immersive at a low resource cost. 1 could be cool as well if we get a cool looking speedometer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The list is good. I'd like to add a fifth request;

    5th change, simple but will require a little effort; Remove WALLS in Sector Space.

    Lose the artificial walls between sectors. The ship models don't have animations other than the engine particles, there's very little terrain beyond the grid and planets, and the game is heavily instanced anyway. Please remove the walls between sectors so the experience of warping is one continuous trip. Warning people when they're entering an area that's dangerous for them is fine... maybe even by placing them in Red Alert. In any event, we should be able to travel from DS9 to Romulus in one single, uninterrupted flight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I see. Didn't know it was dependent on level. Thanks for the info.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ubung wrote: »
    Couldnt voyager go warp 9.95?

    That being the fastest one can go before being everywhere in the universe at one time.

    Technically, the fastest one could go before warp 10 would be warp 9.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999..........(you get the point)

    That being said, your max warp in STO is based on your Captain's level.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Darkjedi wrote: »
    The list is good. I'd like to add a fifth request;

    5th change, simple but will require a little effort; Remove WALLS in Sector Space.

    Lose the artificial walls between sectors. The ship models don't have animations other than the engine particles, there's very little terrain beyond the grid and planets, and the game is heavily instanced anyway. Please remove the walls between sectors so the experience of warping is one continuous trip. Warning people when they're entering an area that's dangerous for them is fine... maybe even by placing them in Red Alert. In any event, we should be able to travel from DS9 to Romulus in one single, uninterrupted flight.

    You're asking for the removal of instancing, not suggesting something to make the current instancing more palatable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    My warp goes to 11. It's one louder.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Technically, the fastest one could go before warp 10 would be warp 9.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999..........(you get the point)

    That being said, your max warp in STO is based on your Captain's level.

    ahh 9.99 recurring. Makes sense. Its cus its cus 9.95 was mentioned as Voyagers maximum.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Darkjedi wrote: »
    The list is good. I'd like to add a fifth request;

    5th change, simple but will require a little effort; Remove WALLS in Sector Space.

    Lose the artificial walls between sectors. The ship models don't have animations other than the engine particles, there's very little terrain beyond the grid and planets, and the game is heavily instanced anyway. Please remove the walls between sectors so the experience of warping is one continuous trip. Warning people when they're entering an area that's dangerous for them is fine... maybe even by placing them in Red Alert. In any event, we should be able to travel from DS9 to Romulus in one single, uninterrupted flight.

    The timing thing is a problem though, that's why I worded mine the way it is. Sort of like...
    1. Warp from Mercury to Pluto: seconds if not functionally instant.
    2. Warp from Earth to Vulcan, nearby same sector: 15~ minutes? According to the new Trek film.
    3. Warp from Earth to Bajor: weeks IIRC.

    Presumably the other sectors aren't literally adjacent, and represent actual star clusters in cosmology. So you have different levels:
    1. Planet
    2. Then orbital space (simple sub-impulse, minutes)
    3. Then solar system (hours at impulse to go Earth to Jupiter)
    4. Then sector (edge of solar system/Oort Cloud to the local black, can be reached by impulse in days)
    5. Then sector space (local black, not realistically passable without warp; short trips possible--see Vulcan example)
    6. Then intergalactic space (need warp, could be days/weeks between sectors)
    7. Then then the next sector
    8. Then the next quadrant (70 years for Voyager to get home!)
    9. Then the black until the next galaxy (hundreds or thousands of years to cross galaxies without wormholes)

    It would be fun to fly straight though, but mechanically without a warping load screen (like my example above) I don't know how you'd pull off the transit between sectors, let alone quadrants, which are long dull trips. Or do you mean that you can just fly off the edge of the known sector en route before say my 30 second timer kicks in, and if you look back you'll just see the sector off in the distance, while you're out in the local Black?

    Because if so, that's an even better and kick-TRIBBLE aesthetic idea--basically leave the instance but let the grid go wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off the sides. I really like that idea, actually.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ubung wrote: »
    ahh 9.99 recurring. Makes sense. Its cus its cus 9.95 was mentioned as Voyagers maximum.

    Technically in modern Trek physics (GEEK ALERT) true Warp 10 would mean you occupy all points in space at once.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ubung wrote: »
    ahh 9.99 recurring. Makes sense. Its cus its cus 9.95 was mentioned as Voyagers maximum.

    its also mentioned that in tng and voyager that 9.95 9s the fastest a ship can go before it start to shake it's self apart and even 9.95 has something like a 5 - 8 hour safe limit before the start takeing dammage (i remember a line that whent something along the lines of "if we keep this up much longer the ship will shake it's self apart.")
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zilag wrote:
    It would be fun to fly straight though, but mechanically without a warping load screen (like my example above) I don't know how you'd pull off the transit between sectors, let alone quadrants, which are long dull trips. Or do you mean that you can just fly off the edge of the known sector en route before say my 30 second timer kicks in, and if you look back you'll just see the sector off in the distance, while you're out in the local Black?

    Because if so, that's an even better and kick-TRIBBLE aesthetic idea--basically leave the instance but let the grid go wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off the sides. I really like that idea, actually...

    Fair questions. Let me expand on my idea;

    I was thinking that Sector space should be one large, continuous map. No 'zones' between Sectors because they smack of outdated game design. Imagine loading into your starship at Earth Starbase in Sector 001. You're in a drydock and need to ease your ship forward out of the dock. Or heck... play cowboy and just hit Warp.

    So now, you're moved to the Sector Space map. Here, you see the same visuals we have now (which are pretty). You can fly in any direction on the X,Y, and multiple planets present themselves for adventure. If you KEEP going, you get into dangerous territory and your Tactical Officer warns you. But you CAN keep going if you want...

    Eventually, you even get to the 'edge' of the map. That is to say, you don't hit a barrier or anything, but all known systems are behind you and you're literally in 'uncharted' space. A few randomly generated worlds appear in front and LOOK LIKE THE OTHER WORLDS... not just 'anomalous reading' floaty text.

    You approach the world and get offered a random mission. Do the mission. Leave. You're STILL in unknown space and can return home if you want.

    But all the while, you never hit a zone wall.

    IS THIS POSSIBLE? - The best thing is, it can be done with the game that's in place now. All that's needed is to make the Sector Space map a single larger entity, and populate the edges with randomly-spawning openings to random worlds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    NinetyNine wrote:
    My warp goes to 11. It's one louder.

    Well, why don't they make 10 the loudest and just move the numbers over?

    Because this one goes to eleven.


    That movie is awesome. I also like:

    I love this guitar. It's got such great sustain. I mean, listen. Cant you hear it?

    I don't hear anything.

    Well, that's because I'm not playing it. If it was plugged in, then you'd be able to hear something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree with all of it, for th emost part.

    For #2, I agree, I don't like the traffic control cop. At the very least, I'd like to see one of my own boffs (whichever one is in the highest ranking bridge seat assignment, ideally) instead. But even better would be to do away with the load screens altogether between the sector blocks and instead have a continuous sector map (not unlike the zoning in wow's world maps). I realize that's a huge change from a coding standpoint, and may not even be possible under the current architecture.

    But if we must keep our loading screens, having my own boffs ask me when I want to warp to a zone, and having a warp-stars view of my ship would be much better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Darkjedi wrote: »
    Fair questions. Let me expand on my idea;

    I was thinking that Sector space should be one large, continuous map. No 'zones' between Sectors because they smack of outdated game design. Imagine loading into your starship at Earth Starbase in Sector 001. You're in a drydock and need to ease your ship forward out of the dock. Or heck... play cowboy and just hit Warp.

    So now, you're moved to the Sector Space map. Here, you see the same visuals we have now (which are pretty). You can fly in any direction on the X,Y, and multiple planets present themselves for adventure. If you KEEP going, you get into dangerous territory and your Tactical Officer warns you. But you CAN keep going if you want...

    Eventually, you even get to the 'edge' of the map. That is to say, you don't hit a barrier or anything, but all known systems are behind you and you're literally in 'uncharted' space. A few randomly generated worlds appear in front and LOOK LIKE THE OTHER WORLDS... not just 'anomalous reading' floaty text.

    You approach the world and get offered a random mission. Do the mission. Leave. You're STILL in unknown space and can return home if you want.

    But all the while, you never hit a zone wall.

    IS THIS POSSIBLE? - The best thing is, it can be done with the game that's in place now. All that's needed is to make the Sector Space map a single larger entity, and populate the edges with randomly-spawning openings to random worlds.

    Assuming that requires tweaks to the engine rather that more cosmetic changes, reread what I added before I read this second post by you to my original post just now, under Tweak #2.

    What do you think of that model as a suggestion for the shorter term (but I would dearly love for all of sector to be one map, as well)?

    The objects in the black can be incorporated to this, too, after that baseline is in.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    NecroBones wrote: »
    and having a warp-stars view of my ship would be much better.

    This is the one I really, really want if we could only get one of these in 2010 and the rest not till say 2011. Having a moving, animated travel shot of my ship in warp rather than pretty static images would go miles to make the universe feel bigger on warping.

    Static = Hi, I'm a load screen.
    Dynamic warping of my ship = HOLY TRIBBLE I'M WARPING WHEEE, and I also disguised elegantly the fact that I'm watching a load screen.


    Keep the static load screens for beaming scenarios for now, since those aren't nearly as common (that's a goose to cook another day).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zilag wrote:
    Assuming that requires tweaks to the engine rather that more cosmetic changes, reread what I added before I read this second post by you to my original post just now, under Tweak #2...

    Not a bad edit.

    As for the 'single zone' concept, I don't think it would be that hard at all.

    Focusing on the first sector players experience (3 'sectors', Sirius and 2 others), we find a rectangular fish bowl geometry. Within that geometry space is perhaps 15 systems, a smattering of roaming enemies, and perhaps a dozen player ships. Each of these entities has two CRITICAL qualities to them; draw-method and position. Draw-method is handled entirely by your computer and doesn't need the server at all. It's just a graphic representation of the polygons, textures, and particles that make up that entity. The planets are starships have very low requirements. The second qualty is position, where the servers tell your computer where to place things and what direciton/speed they have. Nothing else.

    There isn't even need for combat stats in sector Space.

    So my proposal is, enlarge the first sector to be the entire map. Everything.

    WON'T THIS ADD GEOMETRY? - Just push the borders outwards so they encompass the entire galaxy. This will add zero polygons, and the grid on the floor (hopefully a tiled texture) just repeats indefinitely. A larger space in 3D worlds doesn't mean more memory until you add things into that space. See below.

    WON'T PLANETS ADD GEOMETRY? - Yes, but those worlds are about 3,000 polygons, tops. That's the resource alottment of a single character model in many of today's MMORPGS.

    WON'T SHIPS ADD GEOMETRY? - Again, each model is only about 1,000 polygons. Today's game engines can handle 30 - 50 character models at the same time, and that includes animations. Static ships don't cost much at all.

    MY SYSTEM CAN'T DRAW THAT MUCH - Fog of War. The map fades out already, so just keep that system in place.

    Lastly... each planet would maintain it's active hot-point that sends you to another instance, just as it is now. Along the map edge, have random non-mobile planets appear that serve as 'doorways' to random missions. That way, a player feels like they're actually visiting a system... not just a floaty text.

    Whew. Resting fingers now =)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cryptic, please don't make the OP's suggested changes. I don't like any of them!

    1. get rid of the blue gridlines and ribbon swooshes in sector space. I want to feel like I'm
    in space, not in a flippin' galactic roadmap.

    2. allow us to be on the bridge while in sector space. Give us warp view on the main view screen.

    3. get rid of instance warping altogether. make space huge and give us more realistic warping. This combined with getting rid of the gridlines and such will make space travel more realistic and immersive.

    Now, add these to the other 527,792 suggestions on how to improve the game and GET BUSY satisfying everyone's own personal desires for the game!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DarkJedi, while we don't know the architecture of the game, I'd hazard a guess and say your suggestion is unrealistic at best and impossible at worst.

    In reality, the game is a single "shard" architecture. Single shard doesn't mean one server though. Likely the sectors are divided up over servers (and probably further divided up over servers based on instance). The engine is designed to take advantage of this fact and the fact that you zone into each new sector of space.

    While having big, wide open space is awesome, it's probably going to be impossible with the current architecture.

    All of this is theoretical of course, since I don't have the source code in front of me but as a professional programmer, I'd guess that's likely the case. Still, I do like your idea.

    I've posted my changes for sector space before but here they are yet again :) :

    1) Remove grid lines and highways. Keep tinting depicting area of control (blue = fed, red = klingon, etc.) but tone it down. Subtle but noticeable. Unexplored areas should be black, empty space.

    2) Leave sector borders and sign posts.

    3) Improve graphics of systems: make planets look like planets, etc.

    I think that would do a lot for sector space and wouldn't require any major changes to how the game engine functions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'd really love to see Dev input on this one, since there's some really good ideas here on ways to make space feel bigger and more immersive.
This discussion has been closed.