In my opinion STO can never succeed with this old outdated engine that simply can not cope with a seamless world. The whole point of an mmo imo is to have a massive world such as LOTR, WAR, WOW etc etc and the only way that can happen is if you have a good engine and this ain't it.
If every other mmo used instances like they are used in STO then sure, it could be a winner, but they don't and for me this will be the failure of STO.
If every other mmo used instances like they are used in STO then sure, it could be a winner, but they don't and for me this will be the failure of STO.
I fail to see why you think STO has to do what every other MMO does in order to be successful. Some of the things I like about it are things not many other MMOs do.
The lack of a seemless world has a lot more to do with the graphic intensity used by the game then anything else. WoW's graphics are minimally invasive. They can start pre-loading because of the small amount of system their game requires. STO's requirements would mean that only the higher-end machines would be able to function in a seemless environment; and while that's great for those of us with dual and quad cores, massive RAM, and high-end cards, the gamers trying to run with lower system specs would watch their computers meltdown every time they tried to play.
I like open world environments, but I also like not having to fight for spawns, or being ganked while just trying to complete a quest. It makes it no less of an MMO if it's heavily instanced though.
I like open world environments, but I also like not having to fight for spawns, or being ganked while just trying to complete a quest. It makes it no less of an MMO if it's heavily instanced though.
I agree. One thing I've talked with others about is how, in many open world MMOs, you often run into people doing the same quest you are on, being sent to kill the same monster or what-have-you that you are. You end up going to the dragon's lair, discovering that there is already someone there killing the dragon, and waiting around for them to finish and the dragon to respawn so you can have your turn killing it. It can really pull one out of their immersion, at least it has to me. Say what you will about STO and its instances, but that isn't a problem in this game.
In my opinion STO can never succeed with this old outdated engine that simply can not cope with a seamless world. The whole point of an mmo imo is to have a massive world such as LOTR, WAR, WOW etc etc and the only way that can happen is if you have a good engine and this ain't it.
If every other mmo used instances like they are used in STO then sure, it could be a winner, but they don't and for me this will be the failure of STO.
Old outdated engine? what?.
From what i've read this is a very new engine specificaly built for CO and STO, what would you class as a new engine then i'd be very curious to know?.
Just because its mostly instanced doesnt make it an old outdated engine, they just work that way and i praise them for sticking to their guns, what works for other companys might not work for them.
From what i've read this is a very new engine specificaly built for CO and STO, what would you class as a new engine then i'd be very curious to know?.
Just because its mostly instanced doesnt make it an old outdated engine, they just work that way and i praise them for sticking to their guns, what works for other companys might not work for them.
It's an upgraded version of the engine used in City of Heroes.
Unless you have actually seen the engine, and have extensive experience and knowledge regarding game engines, can you truly be so definitive? Or, are you just declaring your opinion as if it was more then it actually is, ie. an opinion?
I like open world environments, but I also like not having to fight for spawns, or being ganked while just trying to complete a quest. It makes it no less of an MMO if it's heavily instanced though.
Even more importantly, the instanced system is a large part of what allows the game to be run on a single server - we may have more instances, but we've got a LOT more opportunity to interact with other players.
Unless you have actually seen the engine, and have extensive experience and knowledge regarding game engines, can you truly be so definitive? Or, are you just declaring your opinion as if it was more then it actually is, ie. an opinion?
Frankly no. As stated above, this game needed a tailored engine. Ignoring the fact that the instances fragment the game and make it seem single player, the way space has been portrayed is frankly unforgivable, and is directly a product of the engine. There are no expansive space environments, no true exploration, there is no going to tje bridge while your ship is doing things or doing any kind of command and control from it (which is what the bridge is for) and most importantly, solar systems are a fantasy, they don't exist. We just get ugly sensor contacts that load a single tiny planet, in a small box of space. There is no travel between bodies in a single solar system, no exploration of said system, important and iconic systems and activities are entirely missing such as shuttle based away missions etc. Really, one could go on forever.
This engine will be the death of the game unless its drastically altered.
Frankly no. As stated above, this game needed a tailored engine. Ignoring the fact that the instances fragment the game and make it seem single player, the way space has been portrayed is frankly unforgivable, and is directly a product of the engine. There are no expansive space environments, no true exploration, there is no going to tje bridge while your ship is doing things or doing any kind of command and control from it (which is what the bridge is for) and most importantly, solar systems are a fantasy, they don't exist. We just get ugly sensor contacts that load a single tiny planet, in a small box of space. There is no travel between bodies in a single solar system, no exploration of said system, important and iconic systems and activities are entirely missing such as shuttle based away missions etc. Really, one could go on forever.
This engine will be the death of the game unless its drastically altered.
Have to agree with you Tain.
I can't remember where I read this, but somewhere it was said that the 45* limitation in ascent/descent is attributed to the game's engine. But at the same time, the dev's stated that they tried that and decided it was not fun (apparently spiraling downwards/upwards to get at your targets was more fun).
While they say the Cryptic engine is entirely new... I find this hard to believe in its entirety. I doubt they would be able to re-use line for line the CoX engine... as that game is licensed to NCSoft and developed by a different Development studio.
However... it wouldn't be a surprise if they took the CoX engine, modified it slightly... and called it "new". Lets be honest, the CoX engine is strikingly similar to Champions Online. Take it a step further, and people are already saying that STO is nothing more than a champions online mod.
This to me, in my opinion... does not allow the IP to be taken advantage of fully, and has resulted in something that is less than ideal.
The lack of a seemless world has a lot more to do with the graphic intensity used by the game then anything else. WoW's graphics are minimally invasive. They can start pre-loading because of the small amount of system their game requires. STO's requirements would mean that only the higher-end machines would be able to function in a seemless environment; and while that's great for those of us with dual and quad cores, massive RAM, and high-end cards, the gamers trying to run with lower system specs would watch their computers meltdown every time they tried to play.
This. The only reason WoW & EVE (and EVE's graphics ARE not that fancy, they're just really pretty on the backgrounds and are mostly empty black) have persistent worlds of massive scale is exactly what is written here.
Eventually, I hope they can make Sector space completely wide open, at least. That would be more important to me that all the rest--warping straight through from Sol to DS9, for example.
BUT--one thing to keep in mind is that the sector space I don't believe is meant to be literally adjacent. There would probably be some sort of long gap in transit from Sirius to the DS9 sector:
If every other mmo used instances like they are used in STO then sure, it could be a winner, but they don't ....
They do. All other big MMOGs are using instancing. The last try with a seamless world was Vanguard and even Vanguard is not really seamless (map is divided in squares and the game has never run smooth).
I think you mix up the large overland zones from other MMOGs with a "seamless world", but large overland zones with several dungeon instances connected aren't a "seamless world".
Get over it, it's impossible to have both, good graphic and seamless world because of lag. To prevent lag you must either have crappy graphic or instancing. People prefer good graphic so instancing is a must.
Even EVE is heavily instanced, it has more than 7000 instances which are all looking same. I never played WoW but I heard they found a way to hide instance changing when going from one overland zone to another but that's only possible because of WoWs simplified and crappy graphic.
The game feels single-player most of the time due to the instancing.
I also feel that voice is a big aspect of Trek. TNG especially was a very talky show. Star Trek Bridge Commander (which I haven't played) supposedly had a voice recognition system you could hook into that let you call out commands to the bridge crew.
I can say that I was expecting something more like a captain's chair experience with lots of prerecorded voices and voice chat. You know, "hailing frequencies open"?
The IRC window on the left is not exactly cutting edge.
I fail to see why you think STO has to do what every other MMO does in order to be successful. Some of the things I like about it are things not many other MMOs do.
No, but it should employ an engine that doesn't require you to load into a new instance every minute.
In terms of maneuvering the engine is good, even Defiant wasnt looping - just try - buy one, and do some DSE with friends against Dominion - you will feel like you are in the DS9 episode.
HW - imo the engine is not so well optimized. You can run at really bad machine, that is not problem. But high settings are more taxing then Crysis on max, while you have only nice ship and then dark space and some rocks. I dont see why it is so taxing.
Instances - Instances for missions are ok. But there should be some bigger instances (ex. solar systems). Even Guild Wars, while heavily instanced, had a feel of a big world, the actual world instances were really big.
And engine is somewhat rehashed CoX/ChO engine, even some sounds are like in CoX.
Frankly no. As stated above, this game needed a tailored engine. Ignoring the fact that the instances fragment the game and make it seem single player, the way space has been portrayed is frankly unforgivable, and is directly a product of the engine. There are no expansive space environments, no true exploration, there is no going to tje bridge while your ship is doing things or doing any kind of command and control from it (which is what the bridge is for) and most importantly, solar systems are a fantasy, they don't exist. We just get ugly sensor contacts that load a single tiny planet, in a small box of space. There is no travel between bodies in a single solar system, no exploration of said system, important and iconic systems and activities are entirely missing such as shuttle based away missions etc. Really, one could go on forever.
Totally agree. Maybe I've just been lucky (or unlucky, depending on how you look at it), but I've played several MMOs, and STO is the first one that doesn't offer true "free roam". People have brought up restrictions such as graphics and depth rendering, the fact that space is 3D and land is 2D, etc. Maybe these are valid points. But to be honest, I'd much rather have poor graphics 2D space with complete free roam than what STO offers now. The "small box" of space or land to accomplish your missions is not going to cut it for me.
This engine will be the death of the game unless its drastically altered.
Maybe, maybe not. There might be enough people that like the current engine and how it is used to sustain the game indefinitely. I am just not one of them...
Frankly no. As stated above, this game needed a tailored engine. Ignoring the fact that the instances fragment the game and make it seem single player, the way space has been portrayed is frankly unforgivable, and is directly a product of the engine. There are no expansive space environments, no true exploration, there is no going to tje bridge while your ship is doing things or doing any kind of command and control from it (which is what the bridge is for) and most importantly, solar systems are a fantasy, they don't exist. We just get ugly sensor contacts that load a single tiny planet, in a small box of space. There is no travel between bodies in a single solar system, no exploration of said system, important and iconic systems and activities are entirely missing such as shuttle based away missions etc. Really, one could go on forever.
This engine will be the death of the game unless its drastically altered.
I'll disagree, because THIS is how Cryptic designs games. Heavy instancing, no real exploration, etc. Everything you stated pretty much is Cryptic in a nutshell. If the engine limits game play in any way, it does so ONLY because Cryptic doesn't want the engine to expand game play in that direction.
Jacob, why do you suspect that this engine is basically the COH engine with some tweaks? Serious question, because I don't know jack about soft ware engines. What are the indicators that this is bascially the same engine? And just how DO they make a software engine?
Comments
I fail to see why you think STO has to do what every other MMO does in order to be successful. Some of the things I like about it are things not many other MMOs do.
I agree. One thing I've talked with others about is how, in many open world MMOs, you often run into people doing the same quest you are on, being sent to kill the same monster or what-have-you that you are. You end up going to the dragon's lair, discovering that there is already someone there killing the dragon, and waiting around for them to finish and the dragon to respawn so you can have your turn killing it. It can really pull one out of their immersion, at least it has to me. Say what you will about STO and its instances, but that isn't a problem in this game.
Old outdated engine? what?.
From what i've read this is a very new engine specificaly built for CO and STO, what would you class as a new engine then i'd be very curious to know?.
Just because its mostly instanced doesnt make it an old outdated engine, they just work that way and i praise them for sticking to their guns, what works for other companys might not work for them.
It's an upgraded version of the engine used in City of Heroes.
Star Trek Online needed a game engine specifically tailored/suited for a science fiction game. It needed its own engine.
Even more importantly, the instanced system is a large part of what allows the game to be run on a single server - we may have more instances, but we've got a LOT more opportunity to interact with other players.
Assuming you are addressing me:
It is an opinion.
This engine will be the death of the game unless its drastically altered.
Have to agree with you Tain.
I can't remember where I read this, but somewhere it was said that the 45* limitation in ascent/descent is attributed to the game's engine. But at the same time, the dev's stated that they tried that and decided it was not fun (apparently spiraling downwards/upwards to get at your targets was more fun).
While they say the Cryptic engine is entirely new... I find this hard to believe in its entirety. I doubt they would be able to re-use line for line the CoX engine... as that game is licensed to NCSoft and developed by a different Development studio.
However... it wouldn't be a surprise if they took the CoX engine, modified it slightly... and called it "new". Lets be honest, the CoX engine is strikingly similar to Champions Online. Take it a step further, and people are already saying that STO is nothing more than a champions online mod.
This to me, in my opinion... does not allow the IP to be taken advantage of fully, and has resulted in something that is less than ideal.
This. The only reason WoW & EVE (and EVE's graphics ARE not that fancy, they're just really pretty on the backgrounds and are mostly empty black) have persistent worlds of massive scale is exactly what is written here.
Eventually, I hope they can make Sector space completely wide open, at least. That would be more important to me that all the rest--warping straight through from Sol to DS9, for example.
BUT--one thing to keep in mind is that the sector space I don't believe is meant to be literally adjacent. There would probably be some sort of long gap in transit from Sirius to the DS9 sector:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_factor
IIRC DS9 from Earth was weeks, wasn't it?
They do. All other big MMOGs are using instancing. The last try with a seamless world was Vanguard and even Vanguard is not really seamless (map is divided in squares and the game has never run smooth).
I think you mix up the large overland zones from other MMOGs with a "seamless world", but large overland zones with several dungeon instances connected aren't a "seamless world".
Get over it, it's impossible to have both, good graphic and seamless world because of lag. To prevent lag you must either have crappy graphic or instancing. People prefer good graphic so instancing is a must.
Even EVE is heavily instanced, it has more than 7000 instances which are all looking same. I never played WoW but I heard they found a way to hide instance changing when going from one overland zone to another but that's only possible because of WoWs simplified and crappy graphic.
I also feel that voice is a big aspect of Trek. TNG especially was a very talky show. Star Trek Bridge Commander (which I haven't played) supposedly had a voice recognition system you could hook into that let you call out commands to the bridge crew.
I can say that I was expecting something more like a captain's chair experience with lots of prerecorded voices and voice chat. You know, "hailing frequencies open"?
The IRC window on the left is not exactly cutting edge.
No, but it should employ an engine that doesn't require you to load into a new instance every minute.
HW - imo the engine is not so well optimized. You can run at really bad machine, that is not problem. But high settings are more taxing then Crysis on max, while you have only nice ship and then dark space and some rocks. I dont see why it is so taxing.
Instances - Instances for missions are ok. But there should be some bigger instances (ex. solar systems). Even Guild Wars, while heavily instanced, had a feel of a big world, the actual world instances were really big.
And engine is somewhat rehashed CoX/ChO engine, even some sounds are like in CoX.
Totally agree. Maybe I've just been lucky (or unlucky, depending on how you look at it), but I've played several MMOs, and STO is the first one that doesn't offer true "free roam". People have brought up restrictions such as graphics and depth rendering, the fact that space is 3D and land is 2D, etc. Maybe these are valid points. But to be honest, I'd much rather have poor graphics 2D space with complete free roam than what STO offers now. The "small box" of space or land to accomplish your missions is not going to cut it for me.
Maybe, maybe not. There might be enough people that like the current engine and how it is used to sustain the game indefinitely. I am just not one of them...
I'll disagree, because THIS is how Cryptic designs games. Heavy instancing, no real exploration, etc. Everything you stated pretty much is Cryptic in a nutshell. If the engine limits game play in any way, it does so ONLY because Cryptic doesn't want the engine to expand game play in that direction.
Jacob, why do you suspect that this engine is basically the COH engine with some tweaks? Serious question, because I don't know jack about soft ware engines. What are the indicators that this is bascially the same engine? And just how DO they make a software engine?