.....in the days of EQ, E&B, AC2, Shadowbane, DAoC, etc...........the MMO world and community was nothing like it is now. It wasn't perfect then either. But QQ is reaching the heavens in the current age of the MMO.
Two key events have turned the MMO world into what it is today. Vile and ruthless QQ.
Event # 1. SOEs near destruction of their own game SWG with the NGE. Yes....I am refering to the tremor felt in the force by so many. As if a million voices cried out all at once and where suddenly silenced. Sorry to bring up that painfull memory folks. [edit]
Event # 2. The birth and continude presents of WoW. This game has utterly and almost TOTALY sucked up most of the subs on the planet. Blizzard made a quality game. But love it or hate it...WoW has created a envornment for the last 5+ years where other MMOs are DOA( you could look at this as a good or bad thing) and most of the MMO community has sat and stagnated in Azeroth with no where else to go. Thus makeing WoW forums the perfect breeding ground for resentfull Gollum types who LOVE and HATE their precious.....
Now they come here to QQ in all it's ugly forms. They want the perfect MMO and they want it now. If they can't have it they want to destroy it for others.
STO is a HUGE step in the right direction. For starters it's a SOLID title and sci-fi. The game isn't perfect. Actually it has some problems. But this game has the potential to be something MASSIVE.
So please little Gollums of the world. Go take a shower and muster just a little patience. If you don't like what you see here you can always go back to Azeroth and pretend you are the bestes gamer in the world with all your epics =D
Now they come here to QQ in all it's ugly forms. They want the perfect MMO and they want it now. If they can't have it they want to destroy it for others.
STO is a HUGE step in the right direction. For starters it's a SOLID title and sci-fi. The game isn't perfect. Actually it has some problems. But this game has the potential to be something MASSIVE.
EVE has massive potential too but their devs deliver one unfinished expansion after the other, resulting in a meh and buggy game. Lots of promises all the time for the NEXT expansion, which covers up the last failed expansion.
Now they come here to QQ in all it's ugly forms. They want the perfect MMO and they want it now
QQ about the QQ is still QQ. People are tired of being disappointed and paying for the pleasure. Perhaps if you moved out of your bubble into reality you would see this. Sorry, posts like these are as grotesque as the "I hate this game, give me a refund".
Eve has massive potential? It's been out for 7 years, has broken world records and is still going strong. More so than this it has constantly expanded and evolved, listening to what the community wanted.
.....in the days of EQ, E&B, AC2, Shadowbane, DAoC, etc...........the MMO world and community was nothing like it is now. It wasn't perfect then either. But QQ is reaching the heavens in the current age of the MMO.
Two key events have turned the MMO world into what it is today. Vile and ruthless QQ.
Event # 1. SOEs near destruction of their own game SWG with the NGE. Yes....I am refering to the tremor felt in the force by so many. As if a million voices cried out all at once and where suddenly silenced. Sorry to bring up that painfull memory folks. Damn u Smedley(the Don King of MMOs). DAMN YOUUUUU! =p
Event # 2. The birth and continude presents of WoW. This game has utterly and almost TOTALY sucked up most of the subs on the planet. Blizzard made a quality game. But love it or hate it...WoW has created a envornment for the last 5+ years where other MMOs are DOA( you could look at this as a good or bad thing) and most of the MMO community has sat and stagnated in Azeroth with no where else to go. Thus makeing WoW forums the perfect breeding ground for resentfull Gollum types who LOVE and HATE their precious.....
Now they come here to QQ in all it's ugly forms. They want the perfect MMO and they want it now. If they can't have it they want to destroy it for others.
STO is a HUGE step in the right direction. For starters it's a SOLID title and sci-fi. The game isn't perfect. Actually it has some problems. But this game has the potential to be something MASSIVE.
So please little Gollums of the world. Go take a shower and muster just a little patience. If you don't like what you see here you can always go back to Azeroth and pretend you are the bestes gamer in the world with all your epics =D
Thanks for your blanket statement. It doesn't fit.
Go play the game some more, learn about Star Trek and what it represents, then realize that the supposed "Destruction" that we are bringing down on the game includes:
Ooooh yes... we certainly are destroying your game aren't we? And these childish, short sighted pleas to "GTFO" and to "go back to WoW" are going to do more harm than good. the idea is retain subscribers, not throw a tantrum and kick everybody out.
I will concur in one thing... WoW did make the introduction of a game harder. But not as it stands now, it did it from day one. WoW, at inception, had over 2600 quests available. It had instability and bugs but because the development team wasn't split between "You guys finish making content we promised would be in at launch" and bug squashing they were handled at a much better rate than STO.
EVE has massive potential too but their devs deliver one unfinished expansion after the other, resulting in a meh and buggy game. Lots of promises all the time for the NEXT expansion, which covers up the last failed expansion.
whoc ares about eve? what the hell does this game have to do with eve, they're both set in space, the similarites begin and end there
STO is a HUGE step in the right direction. For starters it's a SOLID title and sci-fi. The game isn't perfect. Actually it has some problems. But this game has the potential to be something MASSIVE.
It's a step but not in the right direction. It's a step backwards. The game has been released with very little content. Besides combat and scanning stuff, the only other things you can do is breed tribbles and Memory Alpha crafting. Although, I'm not sure if you can even call it crafting.
The game is definitely sci fi and was needed but it's far from a solid title. It was released too early and with little content.
As far is it having a potential to be MASSIVE... How can it be MASSIVE if at most, you can only have 50 people in one instance? That's not massive; that's Team Fortress 2.
QQ is greater in the gaming industry consumers then ever, I vote parents are allowed to beat their children again (only if they need to be punished and within reason of course). That would fix the problem and I will stand by that.
try reading above his post, some hater brought in eve, us fanbois are merely defending it.
and it all really boils down to spoiled brats.
paying less than 2.5 dollars per hour of entertainment is CHEAP.
i pay 30 bucks when i go to the movies for 1½ hour of entertainment.
thats 15 dollars per hour.
now some will argue that they aren't entertained, and that is their subjective right.
but you cant go into a cinema and watch a movie, and then go out and demand a refund because the movie sucked.
That analogy makes no sense.
To compare a movie to STO you would have to have a guy come around to your seat every 5-10 minutes and ask you if you want to pay to keep watching the movie. If the movie sucks people will walk out.
Also... you pay 30 bucks to go watch a movie? I thought $10 was a lot.
There is no harm in complaining as long as you do it in constructive manner. unfortunately only 1% of player base is mature enough to give any good and genuine feedback.
The worst crowd is of those who claim to play DF, EQ2; WOW, EVE and other MMORPG but still spend majority of time complaining on STO forums. Such people help in nothing.
In last 10 year or so of playing MMOs i still have to go to forums of game i don't like and grief those who are enjoying it. i can't understand mentality of these people.
Yes you are enjoying your MMO, yes you told us about it, then why not go play instead of polluting the forums here?
try reading above his post, some hater brought in eve, us fanbois are merely defending it.
and it all really boils down to spoiled brats.
paying less than 2.5 dollars per hour of entertainment is CHEAP.
i pay 30 bucks when i go to the movies for 1½-2 hour(s) of entertainment.
thats 15 dollars per hour.
now some will argue that they aren't entertained, and that is their subjective right.
but you cant go into a cinema and watch a movie, and then go out and demand a refund because the movie sucked.
Can you demand a refund if through out the course of the movie the projector kept shutting down, the sound didn't work and then someone shut down the movie entirely for 2+ hours because of "unexpected downtime?"
At the risk of sounding prejudiced I think the OP makes decent points.
I'm not sure if its anyone in particular coming from any other MMO (maybe it is maybe it isnt) but the thing that struck me as so spot-on was the comment on people wanting perfection and then trying to ruin things for others if it didn't fall out to suit their desires.
WoW made MMOs mainstream and, between WoW and those who have tried to jump on the bandwagon, there is actual competition in the MMO space. No longer must an MMO enthusiast choose from a handful of options if they want to play in the genre. This is good for consumers. Competition increases standards and tightens up prices.
Are consumers much less forgiving than they were in the days of EQ? Absolutely. This isn't a bad thing. This is capitalism. When people have more options, it is only natural they will demand more from a company in order to earn their money.
If companies can't take the heat in an actually competitive MMO marketplace, maybe they should move on to making games in other genres. Things are only going to get harder for them, not easier. Choosing to toss your hat into the ring and make an MMO means you are saying you can meet consumer expectations and be competitive with the other offerings.
This is business. It is hard. it is cutthroat. It is demanding. This is not kindergarten. "It's not fair" and "the customers were mean to me" doesn't fly. Either deal with the market or go home.
.....in the days of EQ, E&B, AC2, Shadowbane, DAoC, etc...........the MMO world and community was nothing like it is now. It wasn't perfect then either. But QQ is reaching the heavens in the current age of the MMO.
Two key events have turned the MMO world into what it is today. Vile and ruthless QQ.
Event # 1. SOEs near destruction of their own game SWG with the NGE. Yes....I am refering to the tremor felt in the force by so many. As if a million voices cried out all at once and where suddenly silenced. Sorry to bring up that painfull memory folks. Damn u Smedley(the Don King of MMOs). DAMN YOUUUUU! =p
Event # 2. The birth and continude presents of WoW. This game has utterly and almost TOTALY sucked up most of the subs on the planet. Blizzard made a quality game. But love it or hate it...WoW has created a envornment for the last 5+ years where other MMOs are DOA( you could look at this as a good or bad thing) and most of the MMO community has sat and stagnated in Azeroth with no where else to go. Thus makeing WoW forums the perfect breeding ground for resentfull Gollum types who LOVE and HATE their precious.....
Now they come here to QQ in all it's ugly forms. They want the perfect MMO and they want it now. If they can't have it they want to destroy it for others.
STO is a HUGE step in the right direction. For starters it's a SOLID title and sci-fi. The game isn't perfect. Actually it has some problems. But this game has the potential to be something MASSIVE.
So please little Gollums of the world. Go take a shower and muster just a little patience. If you don't like what you see here you can always go back to Azeroth and pretend you are the bestes gamer in the world with all your epics =D
In a sense you are correct, but not directly.
Wow changed peoples expectations of a product.
Nothing more nothing less.
Wow works in it's current state and it works very well as it offers something for everyone.
An example would be a car company. X company puts out a vehicle which preforms as it advertised. The competitive company puts out a car that does not preform as well as X car , but promises it will address the issues and update the product to be competitive.
Which car would you buy as a consumer or support?
See the point?
Now I understand the point that Wow had obvious years to advance and develop it's product. But, in the end that makes no difference as the expectations of the consumer now are far more then they were in EQ, Shadowbane, UO , DAOC Hell even going as far back as Merridian 59 days.
Wow changed the mmo market forever. In some ways good and it a lot of others bad.
But, the reason no one can compete with the 1000 pound gorilla is because they have yet to understand the days of putting out a mmo without having polish and being complete for retail are over.
Players are not interested in purchasing and waiting anymore.
post facts. eve is better than ever, and going stronger than ever.
eve is the only game which have had an exponential increase in subs over 8 years.
no other mmo have done that.
WoW didnt have an "exponential" increase in subs? I thought there were 11 million or so playing that and 300k or so playing EVE... Do I have it backwards then?
.....in the days of EQ, E&B, AC2, Shadowbane, DAoC, etc...........the MMO world and community was nothing like it is now. It wasn't perfect then either. But QQ is reaching the heavens in the current age of the MMO.
Two key events have turned the MMO world into what it is today. Vile and ruthless QQ.
Event # 1. SOEs near destruction of their own game SWG with the NGE. Yes....I am refering to the tremor felt in the force by so many. As if a million voices cried out all at once and where suddenly silenced. Sorry to bring up that painfull memory folks. Damn u Smedley(the Don King of MMOs). DAMN YOUUUUU! =p
Event # 2. The birth and continude presents of WoW. This game has utterly and almost TOTALY sucked up most of the subs on the planet. Blizzard made a quality game. But love it or hate it...WoW has created a envornment for the last 5+ years where other MMOs are DOA( you could look at this as a good or bad thing) and most of the MMO community has sat and stagnated in Azeroth with no where else to go. Thus makeing WoW forums the perfect breeding ground for resentfull Gollum types who LOVE and HATE their precious.....
Now they come here to QQ in all it's ugly forms. They want the perfect MMO and they want it now. If they can't have it they want to destroy it for others.
STO is a HUGE step in the right direction. For starters it's a SOLID title and sci-fi. The game isn't perfect. Actually it has some problems. But this game has the potential to be something MASSIVE.
So please little Gollums of the world. Go take a shower and muster just a little patience. If you don't like what you see here you can always go back to Azeroth and pretend you are the bestes gamer in the world with all your epics =D
What, the people wanting a good game on release are destroying the game? what a load of bull.
Developers releasing unfinished games are killing the games. If STO sinks is all because Cryptic failed. Not because of the users, but because of Cryptic. Put the blame where it belongs. People want to play a good game, and Cryptic has to deliver. If they fail to deliver, it is their fault, not ours.
Sheez... People satisfied with sub-par products is what allows developers to release them in this state.
To compare a movie to STO you would have to have a guy come around to your seat every 5-10 minutes and ask you if you want to pay to keep watching the movie. If the movie sucks people will walk out.
Also... you pay 30 bucks to go watch a movie? I thought $10 was a lot.
Of course it makes sense.
5-10 minutes? where do you get that timetable from?
And hour is a freaking hour, and a hour in a game is an hour of entertainment, vs an hour in the movies, which is also an hour of entertainment.
People might walk out, and that is their right, but it is not their right to ruin the movie for those that actually enjoy it.
I dont know where you live, but i pay around 150 kroner per ticket in imperial cinema thats around 30 dollars.
Can you demand a refund if through out the course of the movie the projector kept shutting down, the sound didn't work and then someone shut down the movie entirely for 2+ hours because of "unexpected downtime?"
You can demand a refund then, but that is not what is happening, i havent crashed once in ST:O!
The game works fine, the sound works fine, while i agree there is limeted content, i dont agree on your right to get a refund because you thought the movie was cut short.
QQ about the QQ is still QQ. People are tired of being disappointed and paying for the pleasure. Perhaps if you moved out of your bubble into reality you would see this. Sorry, posts like these are as grotesque as the "I hate this game, give me a refund".
Soooo you're QQing in a thread you describe as QQ about the QQ that is still QQ. Isn't that kinda hypocritical?
WoW made MMOs mainstream and, between WoW and those who have tried to jump on the bandwagon, there is actual competition in the MMO space. No longer must an MMO enthusiast choose from a handful of options if they want to play in the genre. This is good for consumers. Competition increases standards and tightens up prices.
Are consumers much less forgiving than they were in the days of EQ? Absolutely. This isn't a bad thing. This is capitalism. When people have more options, it is only natural they will demand more from a company in order to earn their money.
If companies can't take the heat in an actually competitive MMO marketplace, maybe they should move on to making games in other genres. Things are only going to get harder for them, not easier. Choosing to toss your hat into the ring and make an MMO means you are saying you can meet consumer expectations and be competitive with the other offerings.
This is business. It is hard. it is cutthroat. It is demanding. This is not kindergarten. "It's not fair" and "the customers were mean to me" doesn't fly. Either deal with the market or go home.
The man brings up a very good point. As MMOs become more and more mainstream, the shoddy service and unfinished products become less and less acceptable.
When there were only a handful of MMOs, the horrible launches and unfinished products were acceptable because if you're a fan of the genre, you really had no choice. Now, with dozens and dozens of MMOs out there, people don't have to put up with sub par products.
WAR, AoC and CO are a prime example of this. Both WAR and AoC had huge money making IPs. Warhammer and Conan are huge! So what happened? Both games were unfinished, uninspiring and not really that good.
You can demand a refund then, but that is not what is happening, i havent crashed once in ST:O!
The game works fine, the sound works fine, while i agree there is limeted content, i dont agree on your right to get a refund because you thought the movie was cut short.
Have you played since launch? Because until recently, starting from the 3 day head start, the game was plagued with "unexpected downtime," server queues and constant disconnects.
WoW didnt have an "exponential" increase in subs? I thought there were 11 million or so playing that and 300k or so playing EVE... Do I have it backwards then?
selective reading much?
exponential increase over 8 years.
that means that their sub base have increased over the time of 8 years.
wow hasn't done that, as far as I am aware there is a decline in wow subs atm.
i am not arguing that eve is bigger than wow!
only that they have had a more stable and steady increase (according to their own size) over a longer time period.
It doesn't matter how good or bad WoW was on release, that's not the product now, it's not what the newer players see. They aren't playing through the bugs and server crashes in a half baked product. They see WoW and it works, there's plenty of content and it's playable. They look at STO and find a game that is, at best average. Posting continual insults and accusing anyone who disagrees of QQ doesn't help.
Regardless of how you feel about WoW new players can quickly find their feet and make their way in the world. Things like clearly defined maintenance periods also help. We aren't playing in 2004, it's 6 years from WoW's launch and MMO games have changed.
If someone wants to compete succesfully with WoW then they'd better make damn sure their game is in order. And regardless of what the fanboys say, STO is not at that standard. Maybe STO will survive long enough to get to a standard that can compete with WoW, I hope it does. But until that day I'm off to play offline.
Have you played since launch? Because until recently, starting from the 3 day head start, the game was plagued with "unexpected downtime," server queues and constant disconnects.
I bought it on launch yes, or around launch! ( i might have been a few days late.)
the DT's i have experienced, but as an eve player, im used to a daily DT.
Its good for the servers
5-10 minutes? where do you get that timetable from?
And hour is a freaking hour, and a hour in a game is an hour of entertainment, vs an hour in the movies, which is also an hour of entertainment.
People might walk out, and that is their right, but it is not their right to ruin the movie for those that actually enjoy it.
I dont know where you live, but i pay around 150 kroner per ticket in imperial cinema thats around 30 dollars.
You can demand a refund then, but that is not what is happening, i havent crashed once in ST:O!
The game works fine, the sound works fine, while i agree there is limeted content, i dont agree on your right to get a refund because you thought the movie was cut short.
Do you not know how to make analogies? You are trying to tie the two forms of entertainment together, where one is a single pay scheme (such as buying an offline game where you only pay one time and you get all of the content at once, much like watching a movie) and one is a subscription scheme (and that is where the analogy ceases to make sense as you don't have to pay to watch more movie every few minutes).
The 5-10 minutes was an arbitrary number that represents the monthly fee we pay to continue "watching the movie" as you have postulated.
In STO you are given points, about once a month, where you can jump ship.
Now imagine that as this movie is showing (you really chose a poor analogy here...) you can tell the director where you want the movie to go to make it better.
You and many others *Tolerate* the game as it stands, but I sincerely doubt you find your current STO experience to be the pinnacle of online gaming. If you do I am sorry to say that regardless of what input we give, the game will change. All MMO's do.
As to anybody asking for a refund (which I didn't catch while reading this thread) that is just silly. You can theoretically get a refund on the lifetime subscription, but any refund aside from that would be quite impossible from what I know of software policies at most stores.
The OP makes a good argument. The only thing he really didn't address and should have is, how did WoW do in a number by numbers comparison to STO in the first month. This should include, number of subscriptions, total hours til endgame content, and probably the number of bugs reported/etc.
I talked to a long time MMO'er in another game we play, he was a WoW beta tester and played for 5 years before giving it up. His opinion was that WoW had a lot more problems in the beginning than from what he'd heard from STO. I've heard people argue this point back and forth on this forum, but I trust this person because I've gamed with him for more than a year and know him to be a respectable/informative guy. His opinion carries weight with me, as well as the fact that the OP argument greatly addresses the fact without saying it, that this game is still within first year. Making overly critical statements about it is kind of mute to the fact that this game will have content upgrades in the next couple of months alone. On top of the fact that I'm sure Cyptic is reading these boards (and others) to consider what major changes need to be applied before the end of first year.
That's right, I just said Cyptic was working to make us happy. You may not believe that, but this is in their best interest, as well as ours. If they fail this, then it would mean the end of STO as a game, and the end of Cyptic, as a company.
What, the people wanting a good game on release are destroying the game? what a load of bull.
Developers releasing unfinished games are killing the games. If STO sinks is all because Cryptic failed. Not because of the users, but because of Cryptic. Put the blame where it belongs. People want to play a good game, and Cryptic has to deliver. If they fail to deliver, it is their fault, not ours.
Sheez... People satisfied with sub-par products is what allows developers to release them in this state.
I totally agree with you. SOE started pulling this stuff. Cryptic just did it with STO for other reasons. Wether you agree with them or not. It was either have the STO we have right now that will become what is yet to be seen. Or have no Star trek MMO at all.
But my original point is more along the lines of no matter how "perfect" a MMO is.....from this point forward in MMO history the Gollum types will come and QQ poo all over......=p
In a perfect world we would have 2 flawless MMOs of every genre to chose from =D
Comments
This......
Sorry but I completely agree with you!
EVE has massive potential too but their devs deliver one unfinished expansion after the other, resulting in a meh and buggy game. Lots of promises all the time for the NEXT expansion, which covers up the last failed expansion.
post facts. eve is better than ever, and going stronger than ever.
eve is the only game which have had an exponential increase in subs over 8 years.
no other mmo have done that.
QQ about the QQ is still QQ. People are tired of being disappointed and paying for the pleasure. Perhaps if you moved out of your bubble into reality you would see this. Sorry, posts like these are as grotesque as the "I hate this game, give me a refund".
Eve has massive potential? It's been out for 7 years, has broken world records and is still going strong. More so than this it has constantly expanded and evolved, listening to what the community wanted.
Thanks for your blanket statement. It doesn't fit.
Go play the game some more, learn about Star Trek and what it represents, then realize that the supposed "Destruction" that we are bringing down on the game includes:
"Added diplomatic options"
"Varied mission types"
"Server stability improvements"
"end game content"
Ooooh yes... we certainly are destroying your game aren't we? And these childish, short sighted pleas to "GTFO" and to "go back to WoW" are going to do more harm than good. the idea is retain subscribers, not throw a tantrum and kick everybody out.
I will concur in one thing... WoW did make the introduction of a game harder. But not as it stands now, it did it from day one. WoW, at inception, had over 2600 quests available. It had instability and bugs but because the development team wasn't split between "You guys finish making content we promised would be in at launch" and bug squashing they were handled at a much better rate than STO.
whoc ares about eve? what the hell does this game have to do with eve, they're both set in space, the similarites begin and end there
It's a step but not in the right direction. It's a step backwards. The game has been released with very little content. Besides combat and scanning stuff, the only other things you can do is breed tribbles and Memory Alpha crafting. Although, I'm not sure if you can even call it crafting.
The game is definitely sci fi and was needed but it's far from a solid title. It was released too early and with little content.
As far is it having a potential to be MASSIVE... How can it be MASSIVE if at most, you can only have 50 people in one instance? That's not massive; that's Team Fortress 2.
try reading above his post, some hater brought in eve, us fanbois are merely defending it.
and it all really boils down to spoiled brats.
paying less than 2.5 dollars per hour of entertainment is CHEAP.
i pay 30 bucks when i go to the movies for 1½-2 hour(s) of entertainment.
thats 15 dollars per hour.
now some will argue that they aren't entertained, and that is their subjective right.
but you cant go into a cinema and watch a movie, and then go out and demand a refund because the movie sucked.
That analogy makes no sense.
To compare a movie to STO you would have to have a guy come around to your seat every 5-10 minutes and ask you if you want to pay to keep watching the movie. If the movie sucks people will walk out.
Also... you pay 30 bucks to go watch a movie? I thought $10 was a lot.
The worst crowd is of those who claim to play DF, EQ2; WOW, EVE and other MMORPG but still spend majority of time complaining on STO forums. Such people help in nothing.
In last 10 year or so of playing MMOs i still have to go to forums of game i don't like and grief those who are enjoying it. i can't understand mentality of these people.
Yes you are enjoying your MMO, yes you told us about it, then why not go play instead of polluting the forums here?
Can you demand a refund if through out the course of the movie the projector kept shutting down, the sound didn't work and then someone shut down the movie entirely for 2+ hours because of "unexpected downtime?"
I'm not sure if its anyone in particular coming from any other MMO (maybe it is maybe it isnt) but the thing that struck me as so spot-on was the comment on people wanting perfection and then trying to ruin things for others if it didn't fall out to suit their desires.
You want perfection?
Go swallow an omega particle.
Are consumers much less forgiving than they were in the days of EQ? Absolutely. This isn't a bad thing. This is capitalism. When people have more options, it is only natural they will demand more from a company in order to earn their money.
If companies can't take the heat in an actually competitive MMO marketplace, maybe they should move on to making games in other genres. Things are only going to get harder for them, not easier. Choosing to toss your hat into the ring and make an MMO means you are saying you can meet consumer expectations and be competitive with the other offerings.
This is business. It is hard. it is cutthroat. It is demanding. This is not kindergarten. "It's not fair" and "the customers were mean to me" doesn't fly. Either deal with the market or go home.
In a sense you are correct, but not directly.
Wow changed peoples expectations of a product.
Nothing more nothing less.
Wow works in it's current state and it works very well as it offers something for everyone.
An example would be a car company. X company puts out a vehicle which preforms as it advertised. The competitive company puts out a car that does not preform as well as X car , but promises it will address the issues and update the product to be competitive.
Which car would you buy as a consumer or support?
See the point?
Now I understand the point that Wow had obvious years to advance and develop it's product. But, in the end that makes no difference as the expectations of the consumer now are far more then they were in EQ, Shadowbane, UO , DAOC Hell even going as far back as Merridian 59 days.
Wow changed the mmo market forever. In some ways good and it a lot of others bad.
But, the reason no one can compete with the 1000 pound gorilla is because they have yet to understand the days of putting out a mmo without having polish and being complete for retail are over.
Players are not interested in purchasing and waiting anymore.
Just the way it is.
but SWG is much better and yet he is older now than STO may be in the future. It's just reality.
And I'm a fan of Star Trek.
WoW didnt have an "exponential" increase in subs? I thought there were 11 million or so playing that and 300k or so playing EVE... Do I have it backwards then?
What, the people wanting a good game on release are destroying the game? what a load of bull.
Developers releasing unfinished games are killing the games. If STO sinks is all because Cryptic failed. Not because of the users, but because of Cryptic. Put the blame where it belongs. People want to play a good game, and Cryptic has to deliver. If they fail to deliver, it is their fault, not ours.
Sheez... People satisfied with sub-par products is what allows developers to release them in this state.
Of course it makes sense.
5-10 minutes? where do you get that timetable from?
And hour is a freaking hour, and a hour in a game is an hour of entertainment, vs an hour in the movies, which is also an hour of entertainment.
People might walk out, and that is their right, but it is not their right to ruin the movie for those that actually enjoy it.
I dont know where you live, but i pay around 150 kroner per ticket in imperial cinema thats around 30 dollars.
You can demand a refund then, but that is not what is happening, i havent crashed once in ST:O!
The game works fine, the sound works fine, while i agree there is limeted content, i dont agree on your right to get a refund because you thought the movie was cut short.
The man brings up a very good point. As MMOs become more and more mainstream, the shoddy service and unfinished products become less and less acceptable.
When there were only a handful of MMOs, the horrible launches and unfinished products were acceptable because if you're a fan of the genre, you really had no choice. Now, with dozens and dozens of MMOs out there, people don't have to put up with sub par products.
WAR, AoC and CO are a prime example of this. Both WAR and AoC had huge money making IPs. Warhammer and Conan are huge! So what happened? Both games were unfinished, uninspiring and not really that good.
Have you played since launch? Because until recently, starting from the 3 day head start, the game was plagued with "unexpected downtime," server queues and constant disconnects.
selective reading much?
exponential increase over 8 years.
that means that their sub base have increased over the time of 8 years.
wow hasn't done that, as far as I am aware there is a decline in wow subs atm.
i am not arguing that eve is bigger than wow!
only that they have had a more stable and steady increase (according to their own size) over a longer time period.
Regardless of how you feel about WoW new players can quickly find their feet and make their way in the world. Things like clearly defined maintenance periods also help. We aren't playing in 2004, it's 6 years from WoW's launch and MMO games have changed.
If someone wants to compete succesfully with WoW then they'd better make damn sure their game is in order. And regardless of what the fanboys say, STO is not at that standard. Maybe STO will survive long enough to get to a standard that can compete with WoW, I hope it does. But until that day I'm off to play offline.
I bought it on launch yes, or around launch! ( i might have been a few days late.)
the DT's i have experienced, but as an eve player, im used to a daily DT.
Its good for the servers
Do you not know how to make analogies? You are trying to tie the two forms of entertainment together, where one is a single pay scheme (such as buying an offline game where you only pay one time and you get all of the content at once, much like watching a movie) and one is a subscription scheme (and that is where the analogy ceases to make sense as you don't have to pay to watch more movie every few minutes).
The 5-10 minutes was an arbitrary number that represents the monthly fee we pay to continue "watching the movie" as you have postulated.
In STO you are given points, about once a month, where you can jump ship.
Now imagine that as this movie is showing (you really chose a poor analogy here...) you can tell the director where you want the movie to go to make it better.
You and many others *Tolerate* the game as it stands, but I sincerely doubt you find your current STO experience to be the pinnacle of online gaming. If you do I am sorry to say that regardless of what input we give, the game will change. All MMO's do.
As to anybody asking for a refund (which I didn't catch while reading this thread) that is just silly. You can theoretically get a refund on the lifetime subscription, but any refund aside from that would be quite impossible from what I know of software policies at most stores.
I talked to a long time MMO'er in another game we play, he was a WoW beta tester and played for 5 years before giving it up. His opinion was that WoW had a lot more problems in the beginning than from what he'd heard from STO. I've heard people argue this point back and forth on this forum, but I trust this person because I've gamed with him for more than a year and know him to be a respectable/informative guy. His opinion carries weight with me, as well as the fact that the OP argument greatly addresses the fact without saying it, that this game is still within first year. Making overly critical statements about it is kind of mute to the fact that this game will have content upgrades in the next couple of months alone. On top of the fact that I'm sure Cyptic is reading these boards (and others) to consider what major changes need to be applied before the end of first year.
That's right, I just said Cyptic was working to make us happy. You may not believe that, but this is in their best interest, as well as ours. If they fail this, then it would mean the end of STO as a game, and the end of Cyptic, as a company.
Regards,
-Grey
I totally agree with you. SOE started pulling this stuff. Cryptic just did it with STO for other reasons. Wether you agree with them or not. It was either have the STO we have right now that will become what is yet to be seen. Or have no Star trek MMO at all.
But my original point is more along the lines of no matter how "perfect" a MMO is.....from this point forward in MMO history the Gollum types will come and QQ poo all over......=p
In a perfect world we would have 2 flawless MMOs of every genre to chose from =D