Just to add a constructive criticizm post, since many of my others were likely shorter and didnt offer exactly what I wanted to see improved. I know there are plenty of othe threads about this, but well this one is mine. If you dont want to read it, nobody is making you.
I understand somethings are at this point going to be pretty well ingrained into the game that I dont like, and wont be possible until an expansion.
1. More content - And I just dont mean time sinks; the patrol missions and defend missions should be something extra but should not be required just to make levels. Some of the content that is actually designed well such as the fairly early mission whose name I cant think of involving time travel is amazing. It is one of the few quest I have done (i.e. 2 or 3) that really invoked a star trek feeling that an episode of the series would have. We need more missions like this. And I dont mean 5, or 10, or even 100. I mean this needs to be a major effort, one that would normally look like an expansion (or the entire game), but should have been there from the start. The raidosode patch upcoming is still nowhere near the amount of content increase we need to see.
2. More options Namely it shouldnt always be about combat, or gathering. I myself dont usually like many puzzles and such in games, but in a star trek world we need options that dont always involve violence. (This is one I have seen several dev post aknowledging at least)
3. Repetiveness- When things get repetitive please hide it better. Of course in an MMO it is going to exist, but in too many missions we need to hunt down easily predictable, evenly spaced enemies, or search for random parts of a crashed this or missing that, or we need to scan random boxes of supplies, or missing weapons, or cool alien tech all of which pretty much looks like random boxes in asteroid fields. Adding more content, would likely help in achieving this.
4. Difficulty I know this is one many people will disagree with, but make it ahrder. As it is now it is nearly (actually?) impossible to fail (as opposed to not finish) a mission or a quest. And from the start of the game in a light cruiser I should not be able to fight a battleship and its escorts and be ok. The diffuculty needs to ramp up over time faster than it does now. I also would like to see some kind of a death penalty, not a harsh one but something.
5. Skills Forums have done it to death, so short version: The system as deseigned does not support a skill cap, remove the cap or redeseign the system.
6. Instancing This is one I acknowledge is likely too late outside of a major expansion, but the instancing to this degree has not allowed for any community to develop, limits roleplaying, constantly breaks the 4th wall. Maybe in an expansion we can get at least some zone that look more like what the combat areas look like, but are many times larger, in order to encompass severl solar systems inside of one area.
7. Scope- Similair to the instance problem, the scope needs to be larger. This is outer space, covering large parts of 2 quadrents and many solar systems, but yet I am developing claustrophobia. Most planets are the sizes of footbal fields. At least some planets need to be much much larger. Many other games make you feel like there is more space in a single city, than an entire sector in STO feels. Expanding the scope can add room to add some real exploration into the game as well, since the current exploration quest are just a different name for the patrol quest.
8. Communication This one has been getting better, but we need even more communication from Cryptic to all the negativity on the forums. If we have complaints of things you dont seem to think are broken and are staying (i.e. skills) tell us so the debates can get quieter if not end; and if its soemthing you are working on be specific, tell us it is being worked, tell us where it is in your priority list.
At this point I have a lifetime subscription so I am in this game for the long haul, but as it stands now this is the first game in a long time, and the first MMO I have ever played where I didnt have to force myself to stop playing. I spend more time on the forums looking for glimmers of hope from devs that things will get better, and soon, than I do actually playing.
To all those that will post about this, yes I know its an MMO, yes I know they are continually developed, yes I know thing will improve. But it is hard to argue against the fact that this game feels unfinished, empty, and dare I say souless. No sense of there being a world I am part of, that I can affect, with a communty I feel invovled in. As it stands now I could play the Old Startrek Command 2/3 that I have and get a better single player game that makes me feel more involved than STO does right now.
Wow, only one response still (outside of yourself). I mostly lurk on these forums... but just for the sake of bumping this I'll respond.
I agree with pretty much every point. I'm a lifer also. Right now I enjoy the game and even the casual nature of it, but the further along I get (captain 1 right now), the more I fear the day I reach RA5. I've read the content presented, done my share of deep space encounter repeats and so on, but I am still worried how quickly I am leveling. When I'm in the game though, I can't pull myself away. I've found good episodes, I like some of the storylines, I'm impressed with the tie ins to both the original series and the new movie... which makes me wonder why people complain about the writing, I feel most of it (for the episode missions) has been pretty darn good so far.
I hope that 1, 2, and 3 on your list are where Cryptic is really focusing efforts (outside of the usual bug fixes/stability enhancements) right now. I think the "raidisodes" and other episodes listed in the "What's Next" article on the main page are a good start and have me hoping that 6 months down the line this game will be far beyond what we see right now. Cryptic IMO has some good story tellers and I'd really like to see more missions on the level of the Guardian one and ones with more voice acting (though I know that can be a problem). Maybe in the futre they can throw some money at Trek actors/actresses for voiceovers in special missions.
For the record, I'm new to MMOs but have been a ST fan for years - which probably makes me the exact demographic Cryptic was going for.
Star Trek Online Digital Delux version: $60
Lifetime subscription: $240
First long constructive post getting 0 responses: Priceless
Criticisms based on facts tend to scare off those who are unable to tackle the facts head on rather than simply chime in with QQ / whiner responses. There's no fun in it for the witless fools
I think the "raidisodes" and other episodes listed in the "What's Next" article on the main page are a good start and have me hoping that 6 months down the line this game will be far beyond what we see right now. Cryptic IMO has some good story tellers and I'd really like to see more missions on the level of the Guardian one and ones with more voice acting (though I know that can be a problem). Maybe in the futre they can throw some money at Trek actors/actresses for voiceovers in special missions.
STO like any MMO will have content updates such as the upcoming one, that being said the is such a lack of it now they need to do more to get a better baseline then they have now. Of course I dont tend to make many if any alts in games so I would like to see much of it at end game, but really there is so much empty space for content in between.
The Guardian mission there was amazing. They dont all need to be voice acted (though more would be cool), but whoever worked on that quest needs to be given a raise and locked in a room for a week at a time to make more like it.
I hope that 1, 2, and 3 on your list are where Cryptic is really focusing efforts (outside of the usual bug fixes/stability enhancements) right now.
Also I didnt touch on those in my original post because as much as I dont like that these things are industry standards, the fact is they are. As long as they are systematically worked on in a reasonable amount of time I will be alright. I think Cryptic could stand to have given us a few days free (not that it matters to me since I am a lifer) to make up for the headstart, and first week being really bad. if nothing else it might be good for them to push the first 30 days free, to go at least one weekend past the raidasode update, Give alot of people that intend to quit at the 30 day mark a chance to see if they like the direction things are going. If we dont catch them now, we wont see many/any of them back for 6+ months.
STO like any MMO will have content updates such as the upcoming one, that being said the is such a lack of it now they need to do more to get a better baseline then they have now. Of course I dont tend to make many if any alts in games so I would like to see much of it at end game, but really there is so much empty space for content in between.
The Guardian mission there was amazing. They dont all need to be voice acted (though more would be cool), but whoever worked on that quest needs to be given a raise and locked in a room for a week at a time to make more like it.
haha ya I agree, that mission was very well written. Another mission I must praise is Accidents Happen. I really enjoyed that mission (and there was no combat XD)
Well constructed critique and again nice to see that people seem to be realising that negative does not have to be hate
I didnt yet so much make any negative/hate post but certainly I likely agreed to threads where the OP was. It is just this game had (and has) so much potential it just seems like a waste that this is how it was released that I like many others got (and get) very angry. That being said, I decided to make a somewhat clearer statement about what I want to see; though I fully reserve my right to random, hate filled, nonsensical screaming in the future
I agree with most of those and probably they do as well, the problem is they need time to do all that. If nothing changes in a few months I'll be disappointed, but I'm not an oracle of some sort so I can't say what will happen, I'll just wait and see and let my life go on.
The original post pretty much sumss up all that I have been thinking about this game. I like the game and I want it to succeed but right now there are a lot of issues.
My only comment to add would be what has already been repeated here, Cyptic, please let us know what you are working on and what the priorities are. I know that you can not reply to every thread but just let us know what you are thinking.
Agreed OP. In fact, we seem to share similar ideas. I also gave some feedback to Cryptic (see my sig for the link if you wish) and some of our points are very similar.
I'd also like to see Cryptic inform the players about what they are working on and what their priorities are. It may help answer a lot of questions and keep people around to see the updates.
Well constructed critique and again nice to see that people seem to be realising that negative does not have to be hate
Not to mention that in order to get your point out, you don't have to resort to a tantrum that a 4 year old would be shocked by or would sit back and say/think: "Dang...that was pretty awesome. Much better than I could pull off."
Some good feedback of which I always approve, could you elaborate on number one a bot more though. I know the mission, but what from it do you want to see in more missions? I also have to say communication is actually pretty good, however its scattered and difficult to find at best.
I find that many fans concerns and issues have been addressed days after a dev replies to an issue or makes a post about it. Most of the threads get buried or are just so dang big that you don't want to even try and find any dev posts. There are also all of the different interviews and of course the occasional thing dropped in IRC which can be gone in a matter of seconds basically. I would just say they need a better way or place to address concerns then the current way they are going about it.
I agree with everything you said, but I would suggest that if Cryptic would spend some time developing group content (where you need a balanced group of someone that can decently tank, someone that can decently heal, and others that can dps), they will alleviate a lot of the problems in one fell swoop, like repetativeness, difficulty, and content.
The best content in MMORPGs isn't the content that the developers create, it's the content that happens when you're in a group with other human beings and things happen- i.e. the shared experience. There is precious little of this kind of content in this MMORPG.
I have my own opinions, but right now I cant be bothered elaborating on them. Suffice it to say that I don't expect such areas of the game to improve drastically over the next 6 months. If at all.
The devs reluctance to discuss these areas that require attention speaks volumes.
So I'm not going to sit around paying a sub based simply on blind faith that someday one or two areas MAY get addressed, but no guarantees.
I agree with everything you said, but I would suggest that if Cryptic would spend some time developing group content (where you need a balanced group of someone that can decently tank, someone that can decently heal, and others that can dps), they will alleviate a lot of the problems in one fell swoop, like repetativeness, difficulty, and content.
The best content in MMORPGs isn't the content that the developers create, it's the content that happens when you're in a group with other human beings and things happen- i.e. the shared experience. There is precious little of this kind of content in this MMORPG.
That may have worked years ago, but devs have found that they cannot enforce grouping and provide the same rewards that would be given to a solo'er. People will just skip over such content if they either:
1) Don't have time for it.
2) Can't find a group.
3) The reward doesn't justify the time to find a group and do the mission.
In the case of 1 and 2, people consider the amount of time spent trying to find a group AND successfully complete the mission against the reward gained and the xp gained in the same amount of time. In other words, they consider whether or not its worth their time.
And when people skip over the group content, "gaps" appear in the progression because not everyone did every single solo AND group mission. That's another reason when people scream that theres not enough content for all levels in a game.
Therefore, group-centric content should always be considered supplimental to solo content, not as a replacement and certainly not the other way around. The individual player is the smallest unit that has to be considered in terms of gameplay content. And so, enough content should always be provided to suit an individual first and foremost. Group content can then be provided ADDITIONALLY to the solo content, so as to further enrich the overall game experience of the MMO. However, make no mistake, each type of content should have its own unique enticement in order to encourage players to partake in it. For instance, whilst soloable / duo-able content should be considered as a baseline, group / raid content should have better rewards and be harder. What is commonly referred to as "risk vs reward"
This is precisely how WoW catered for the majority. Blizzard built their game around the smallest unit size (the individual) and then provided group content on top of it with a difference in rewards to entice people. Thus, in theory, everyone is kept happy. Of course, the implementation of such a system isn't often perfect the first time around. But its better than enforcing grouping on people who don't want it / can't partake in it (for their own valid reasons).
Now, some people may consider building an MMO primarily around the solo'er to be an awful idea. But lets face facts, the world has changed since the days of EQ1 and UO. Costs have risen and thus so has the demand for subscriptions. Plus players no longer have the time to spend 12 hours per day on an MMO, camping one single boss for a rare drop and consider THAT to be fun. People have familiies now. However, that doesn't mean that the volume of content required for an MMO should be eroded away to the extreme that its less than sufficient to encourage the player to subscribe.
There is a balance that must be struck. And STO misses that balance by a long way off.
Side note
A step on from the provision of different rewards for different playstyles, is the provision of item progression for both playstyles (solo and group) but requiring different amounts of effort to compensate. If devs want to offer comparable good rewards for both, then the effort required of the player needs to be the same. A crude example would be that a particular reward may require 15 mins worth of group content, or it would require a soloer 30 mins worth of content. The amount differs but the reward is the same and this is justified by the difference in "risk" in the encounters. So if risk changes, so does the amount of time in order to compensate for the change.
Some good feedback of which I always approve, could you elaborate on number one a bot more though. I know the mission, but what from it do you want to see in more missions?
My missions such as the guardians of time, not necessarily voice acted, but in terms of logical story for our actions, events we feel have an effect on the world around us. I have killed hundreds of klingon ships so far, but the war seems to be going on still. But in the guardians of time I at least helped preserve the timeline, save the enterprise, save the Federation. More quest like that where an impact is felt need to be added. And as mentioned there needs to be MUCH less requirement to do patrols, explore, and pvp to actually level. Those should be options but not requirements. I am at Commander 4 right now, and my progress has been horribly slowed due to the fact that I hate repetition and I am out of story quest at my level, and am being forced to do repeatables just to advance.
Also the occasional mission with multiple solutions would be nice, not necessarily a puzzle, but something with some kind of moral dilemma, do I take somebody as a prisoner who is a danger and may later escape, or do I kill them there to make the Federation safer; which of 2 grousp of people should get mining rights somewhere, do I interfere or not? Should I interfere in a pre-warp culture to save them from a disastor, but risk negatively impacting their development etc.
Star Trek between multiple series, movies, books, TONS of fan fiction has SO much material to work with, but yet it seems the missions are always gather 4 of this, or kill 5 groups of that. It can been done much better. I saw one post where a dev sounded generally hurt that people accused Cryptic of never having of watched a single star trek episode; but I say the product we were given looks like it wasnt made by Star Trek fans.
Comments
Lifetime subscription: $240
First long constructive post getting 0 responses: Priceless
I agree with pretty much every point. I'm a lifer also. Right now I enjoy the game and even the casual nature of it, but the further along I get (captain 1 right now), the more I fear the day I reach RA5. I've read the content presented, done my share of deep space encounter repeats and so on, but I am still worried how quickly I am leveling. When I'm in the game though, I can't pull myself away. I've found good episodes, I like some of the storylines, I'm impressed with the tie ins to both the original series and the new movie... which makes me wonder why people complain about the writing, I feel most of it (for the episode missions) has been pretty darn good so far.
I hope that 1, 2, and 3 on your list are where Cryptic is really focusing efforts (outside of the usual bug fixes/stability enhancements) right now. I think the "raidisodes" and other episodes listed in the "What's Next" article on the main page are a good start and have me hoping that 6 months down the line this game will be far beyond what we see right now. Cryptic IMO has some good story tellers and I'd really like to see more missions on the level of the Guardian one and ones with more voice acting (though I know that can be a problem). Maybe in the futre they can throw some money at Trek actors/actresses for voiceovers in special missions.
For the record, I'm new to MMOs but have been a ST fan for years - which probably makes me the exact demographic Cryptic was going for.
Criticisms based on facts tend to scare off those who are unable to tackle the facts head on rather than simply chime in with QQ / whiner responses. There's no fun in it for the witless fools
Oh and I lagree with the OP in his observations.
STO like any MMO will have content updates such as the upcoming one, that being said the is such a lack of it now they need to do more to get a better baseline then they have now. Of course I dont tend to make many if any alts in games so I would like to see much of it at end game, but really there is so much empty space for content in between.
The Guardian mission there was amazing. They dont all need to be voice acted (though more would be cool), but whoever worked on that quest needs to be given a raise and locked in a room for a week at a time to make more like it.
Also I didnt touch on those in my original post because as much as I dont like that these things are industry standards, the fact is they are. As long as they are systematically worked on in a reasonable amount of time I will be alright. I think Cryptic could stand to have given us a few days free (not that it matters to me since I am a lifer) to make up for the headstart, and first week being really bad. if nothing else it might be good for them to push the first 30 days free, to go at least one weekend past the raidasode update, Give alot of people that intend to quit at the 30 day mark a chance to see if they like the direction things are going. If we dont catch them now, we wont see many/any of them back for 6+ months.
haha ya I agree, that mission was very well written. Another mission I must praise is Accidents Happen. I really enjoyed that mission (and there was no combat XD)
Well constructed critique and again nice to see that people seem to be realising that negative does not have to be hate
I didnt yet so much make any negative/hate post but certainly I likely agreed to threads where the OP was. It is just this game had (and has) so much potential it just seems like a waste that this is how it was released that I like many others got (and get) very angry. That being said, I decided to make a somewhat clearer statement about what I want to see; though I fully reserve my right to random, hate filled, nonsensical screaming in the future
Hmm not an oracle...thats disappointing. Do you know where we can find one at least? That would be helpful
Unless you took the red pill I can't help.
My only comment to add would be what has already been repeated here, Cyptic, please let us know what you are working on and what the priorities are. I know that you can not reply to every thread but just let us know what you are thinking.
I'd also like to see Cryptic inform the players about what they are working on and what their priorities are. It may help answer a lot of questions and keep people around to see the updates.
Not to mention that in order to get your point out, you don't have to resort to a tantrum that a 4 year old would be shocked by or would sit back and say/think: "Dang...that was pretty awesome. Much better than I could pull off."
I find that many fans concerns and issues have been addressed days after a dev replies to an issue or makes a post about it. Most of the threads get buried or are just so dang big that you don't want to even try and find any dev posts. There are also all of the different interviews and of course the occasional thing dropped in IRC which can be gone in a matter of seconds basically. I would just say they need a better way or place to address concerns then the current way they are going about it.
The best content in MMORPGs isn't the content that the developers create, it's the content that happens when you're in a group with other human beings and things happen- i.e. the shared experience. There is precious little of this kind of content in this MMORPG.
I have my own opinions, but right now I cant be bothered elaborating on them. Suffice it to say that I don't expect such areas of the game to improve drastically over the next 6 months. If at all.
The devs reluctance to discuss these areas that require attention speaks volumes.
So I'm not going to sit around paying a sub based simply on blind faith that someday one or two areas MAY get addressed, but no guarantees.
That may have worked years ago, but devs have found that they cannot enforce grouping and provide the same rewards that would be given to a solo'er. People will just skip over such content if they either:
1) Don't have time for it.
2) Can't find a group.
3) The reward doesn't justify the time to find a group and do the mission.
In the case of 1 and 2, people consider the amount of time spent trying to find a group AND successfully complete the mission against the reward gained and the xp gained in the same amount of time. In other words, they consider whether or not its worth their time.
And when people skip over the group content, "gaps" appear in the progression because not everyone did every single solo AND group mission. That's another reason when people scream that theres not enough content for all levels in a game.
Therefore, group-centric content should always be considered supplimental to solo content, not as a replacement and certainly not the other way around. The individual player is the smallest unit that has to be considered in terms of gameplay content. And so, enough content should always be provided to suit an individual first and foremost. Group content can then be provided ADDITIONALLY to the solo content, so as to further enrich the overall game experience of the MMO. However, make no mistake, each type of content should have its own unique enticement in order to encourage players to partake in it. For instance, whilst soloable / duo-able content should be considered as a baseline, group / raid content should have better rewards and be harder. What is commonly referred to as "risk vs reward"
This is precisely how WoW catered for the majority. Blizzard built their game around the smallest unit size (the individual) and then provided group content on top of it with a difference in rewards to entice people. Thus, in theory, everyone is kept happy. Of course, the implementation of such a system isn't often perfect the first time around. But its better than enforcing grouping on people who don't want it / can't partake in it (for their own valid reasons).
Now, some people may consider building an MMO primarily around the solo'er to be an awful idea. But lets face facts, the world has changed since the days of EQ1 and UO. Costs have risen and thus so has the demand for subscriptions. Plus players no longer have the time to spend 12 hours per day on an MMO, camping one single boss for a rare drop and consider THAT to be fun. People have familiies now. However, that doesn't mean that the volume of content required for an MMO should be eroded away to the extreme that its less than sufficient to encourage the player to subscribe.
There is a balance that must be struck. And STO misses that balance by a long way off.
Side note
A step on from the provision of different rewards for different playstyles, is the provision of item progression for both playstyles (solo and group) but requiring different amounts of effort to compensate. If devs want to offer comparable good rewards for both, then the effort required of the player needs to be the same. A crude example would be that a particular reward may require 15 mins worth of group content, or it would require a soloer 30 mins worth of content. The amount differs but the reward is the same and this is justified by the difference in "risk" in the encounters. So if risk changes, so does the amount of time in order to compensate for the change.
My missions such as the guardians of time, not necessarily voice acted, but in terms of logical story for our actions, events we feel have an effect on the world around us. I have killed hundreds of klingon ships so far, but the war seems to be going on still. But in the guardians of time I at least helped preserve the timeline, save the enterprise, save the Federation. More quest like that where an impact is felt need to be added. And as mentioned there needs to be MUCH less requirement to do patrols, explore, and pvp to actually level. Those should be options but not requirements. I am at Commander 4 right now, and my progress has been horribly slowed due to the fact that I hate repetition and I am out of story quest at my level, and am being forced to do repeatables just to advance.
Also the occasional mission with multiple solutions would be nice, not necessarily a puzzle, but something with some kind of moral dilemma, do I take somebody as a prisoner who is a danger and may later escape, or do I kill them there to make the Federation safer; which of 2 grousp of people should get mining rights somewhere, do I interfere or not? Should I interfere in a pre-warp culture to save them from a disastor, but risk negatively impacting their development etc.
Star Trek between multiple series, movies, books, TONS of fan fiction has SO much material to work with, but yet it seems the missions are always gather 4 of this, or kill 5 groups of that. It can been done much better. I saw one post where a dev sounded generally hurt that people accused Cryptic of never having of watched a single star trek episode; but I say the product we were given looks like it wasnt made by Star Trek fans.