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An honest plea for change

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
First, I'd like to state that I really enjoy playing STO. Through all of the complaints, as well and bugs and issues to be fixed in the future, I still feel STO has a lot of potential to be the most popular and well liked Sci-Fi MMO out there. And as a Trek fan (I'm a trekker, not a trekkie), I hope STO becomes an MMO that both Trek and Sci-Fi fans love. However, I'm talking about potential, and not what our 6.6 user rating at MMORPG.com or the 2 star rating at Gamespy has to say about STO as of this posting.
The result is a shallow, poorly paced, and repetitive game that, divorced from its storied source material, wouldn't warrant a second look.

So what needs to be done to help STO "live long and prosper"? To up its ratings, bring in more community members, and please the community members we already have? The answer will most likely vary from person to person, as everyone has their likes and dislikes, along with their opinions of what they want out of a Star Trek MMO. I'm sure there are plenty within the community who like STO just the way it is (minus the current bugs of course), while others have canceled subs, etc. But what really needs to be added/fixed in order to give STO more Star Trek and more long-term success?

Past all of the extreme responses from both complainers and fans, I hope we can all say that we're here because we've had fun and want to help make STO better? If you just want to rant, there are plenty of other threads for that (as well as the option to make your own). Likewise, if all you want to do is complain about the complainers, there are other threads for that as well. This thread is here to 1.) give Cryptic feedback from an STO lifetime member who's been through closed and open beta, and 2.) let others freely discuss points and of course bring up their own without getting flamed by others and without flaming others as so many other threads seem to experience. While I certainly can't stop flames or trolling, I can certainly encourage all of you to contribute positively, regardless of whether your post is praising or complaining about STO.

Here's my list of changes/updates I feel would benefit the STO project and entire community for long-term appeal and success.

(continued)...
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    1. Content. This is one area where we've probably seen the most common complaints. Whether it's due to feeling repetitive or a lack of things to do at end-game, we really need more, and better content. Personally I've enjoyed a lot of the missions. Some of them are lackluster, but some truly shine. And I certainly realize that lack of end-game content is typically associated with people plowing through content at breakneck speeds. Yes, the content is less than many other MMOs since STO has just released, so hopefully Cryptic will progress in this area over time. And yes, as with almost any game, there's never enough to please absolutely everyone. This is especially true for end-game content to keep subscribers interested and still playing long after they level capped. Yet have you ever heard someone complain that a game had too much content?

      As for content quality, there have been complaints that mission are too short, too easy, or too shallow. I'd even agree to an extent. To me, I get the feeling that STO was rushed from how brief and shallow a lot of missions are. Sure, some of the missions are fun. I even enjoyed the background and story-writing behind some chains. But then I look at the next mission on my Episodes tab and feel let down, again. Unfortunately, many missions lack any real depth, with Star Trek canon references that seem as if they were poorly placed/forced tag lines in a B-rated movie (cue the horribly placed "Dammit, man! I'm a doctor, not a physicist!" line in the new Star Trek movie). It seems everyone we meet is some relative of some prominent character in one Trek series or another, and ever other storyline is based on or at least similar to some specific episode. This all spells lack of original content. Sure, we might enjoy our Trek references in STO, but I for one don't want entire story lines to feel like a loop of DVDs from Trek series seasons. I would love to see Trek creativity and originality in STO just like every new series did for the Trek genre.

      And that brings me to another point regarding content: Scan/disable/sabotage/interact with 5 nodes is getting old. I personally expected a little more out of the genesis system and hope that Cryptic unleashes its full potential soon. The semi-random exploration missions are really B-rated content to fill the gap between the limited, scripted content. It's either destroy these 5 squadrons, scan these 5 anomalies, aid the planet with 10 supplies (which I completely avoid), or interact with these 5 notes on a base or on a planet. And to make the exploration missions worse, all of the "unexplored" clusters are the same square block of anomalies that are placed in exactly the same pattern, with exactly the same content classification (either explore system or scan for data samples) every time they respawn. It really feels like someone took one exploration cluster to copy and paste it for new clusters.
      .
    2. Exploration. To be honest, there is no true exploration of the unknown in an MMO. There is only exploration of the less-widely known. So to get the true feeling or Trek and the "to boldly go where no one/man has gone before" experience, we really need open-ended, sandbox style space like EVE has. Many don't want an EVE clone, but we need something that gives us that feeling of exploration. This is where we need the 'genesis system' to create random content beyond explored/charted space. Sector travel combined with 'unexplored' clusters is not a substitute for exploration. To make things worse, most systems in sector space require the mission before we can enter them. And on top of that, entering a system is more or less entering a small area of space that's centered around a planet or group of asteroids, and nothing like an actual star system.

      So in STO we currently have an MMO-like progression, which is good for an MMO. But for a Trek game, we have very little freedom of exploration in-game. Just go to the edge of a system's space to get that lovely, red, nothing-on-sensors-beyond-here style message. Same is true for bumping into the edges of sector space. In STO, the boundaries of our universe is all too painfully visible, possibly until the next update/expansion. While fantasy-base games wall off areas with impassable mountains or bodies of water, STO walls off areas with... well, invisible walls. While that might be acceptable in an MMO, that just screams blasphemy for the Trek universe.

      I'm sure there are plenty of players who are satisfied with this limiting feeling because sure, it can give us a secure feeling to know where we're going, what we're doing, and what's next on our flat line of progression. It's not wrong to feel that way, and I certainly have days where I just want to turn off my mind and follow the progress line to relax. But in the end, we're not doing any justice for STO when we don't have large, infrequently explored areas of pure space. We've already had talk of player controlled space and fleet controlled stations/bases, but where is this ultimately going? Hopefully Cryptic can get their genesis system to create more space. Sounds ironic, doesn't it?
      .
    3. Factions. So we saw STO launch with a huge focus on Federation gameplay. It appears that Klingons were added into the mix later in development, and although we have Quo'nos and some interesting Klingon flavor when starting a Klingon character, we quickly learn that there isn't much Klingon content. But we knew this according to what devs stated around closed beta, and we know we'll get more content over time. However, STO doesn't have that feeling of faction play, where players can enter a large open area (no via a PvP queue) to PvP with other factions on a much larger scale than we currently have. If I had to made a comparison (and I hate doing this), I'd like to cite Dark Ages of Camelot as an example of true multi-faction-play, as well as WoW for an example of two-sided faction play. While most of us can agree that we don't want STO to be another WoW or other MMO, more of a faction-play feeling would give deeper meaning to playing something other than just the Federation side. There should be a complete PvE progression side to compliment the PvP side of faction play. It shouldn't detract from PvP or force PvP-only players to grind through it, but it should be there to help both sides in getting comparable equipment and gear. Currently we see a lot of Klingon-focused players who use a Federation character or Federation friends to mail them equipment. It shouldn't have to be this way. All factions in a faction-oriented MMO should be able to get their own, good gear. Playing any faction should appeal to both PvPers and PvEers alike.

      And to keep that Star Trek feeling, future factions such as the Dominion, Romulans, etc. should be added as well instead of just partially rolled into Federation or Klingon. We've heard talk of this, as well as plenty of speculation on it, but until we have a fleshed-out Klingon faction, we can kiss goodbye to other factions.
      .
    4. Economy and Crafting. Well, other than a wad of overpriced items (ie: tier 5 weapons for 200k+) and a plethora of worthless, cheaper items that no one ever buys on the Exchange, we really don't have an economy in-game. Sure, we have some prices sorting themselves out over time for things that actually sell, but the economy is so out of whack that items posted weeks ago are still affecting prices today. This is partly due to the seemingly unlimited time that an auction can exist before it's removed and the original item sent back to the player. Don't get me wrong, as I love free auctions with unlimited time, but it is an obstacle in creating a thriving player-driven economy. To make the situation worse, the Exchange is a watered-down version of even the poorest Auction House of any MMO. Poor searching and sorting is one problem, while clumsy paging and forced-mouse-over-on-results is another. A poor Exchange will almost always yield a poor player-driven economy.

      The other part of this problem as I see it is our broken crafting system. Yes, there are tons of complaints out there that compare our crafting system to a barter system. And I'd agree with most of them. To give you an example, I am a Rear Admiral and yet I'm stuck at Tier 2 bartering right now (I prefer to call crafting what it is: bartering). It's not because I'm lazy or uninterested in crafting. I'd love to continue it. Yet, it seems getting most (if not all) items for tier 2 bartering require a drop or a purchase on the Exchange. And I even started on our "crafting" system at head-start, from Tier 1 and up. Yet I haven't received enough drops from tier 2 missions/areas to get past tier 2 bartering. My bank and inventory are overflowing with data samples (many, many 50 stacks of each, from ALL tiers), so that's not an issue. To get past tier 2 and into a tier that's actually worthwhile to me, I'd have to grind early areas (ie: secure sector missions) for drops or purchase them on the Exchange. How broken is that? While most MMOs will have a bit of grinding involved for their crafting, most items that make up part of recipes/plans/patterns can be unlocked and purchased over time from NPCs. The rest is resources which can be 'farmed'. STO has the resource farming (data samples) part of this, but lacks the other material gathering side.

      Once that part of this is fixed, we still have this feeling of bartering instead of actual crafting. Why? I bet it has to do with the same reason a lot of other things in STO are lacking: rushed to release. A crafting system should be more than just an NPC buy/sell panel. While we all know there is a grinding aspect to crafting in MMOs, there is usually a creative and unique UI-driven side to it as well. You'd think with all of the Trek canon out there that we'd be able to get a very creative, futuristic crafting system in place. From scanners, couplers, spanners, and even your good old wrenches, there's a plethora of tools, hardware, devices, components, and gear out there for an interesting crafting system

    (continued)...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    • Documentation and Transparency. Currently, can anyone truly find out how much an EPS power transfer of +3 is, what the final stats of damage is for +20 torpedoes vs. +20 quantum projectiles? STO is currently a min/max person's nightmare. Not enough stats are displayed for our characters or ships, and when they are displayed, we're insulted by devs with things like -99,000% (whether that was intentional or not). So many threads and wiki pages right now of people trying to guesstimate the math behind STO's mechanics. Some of it we can determine through trial and error, but we shouldn't have to. Our mechanics should be visible in-game so that players can make reasonable choices without having to become a min/maxer.

      A little transparency here goes a long ways to helping us decide if we want to change out one console for another. Granted, this has improved greatly since open beta with better descriptions in mouse-overs, etc., but it's far from being useful, let alone VERY far from near-perfect. And again, a good chunk of this is due to the rushed release of STO. Hopefully Cryptic will revamp some mechanics over time, such as the skill tree that doesn't make sense why one tier ship piloting does or doesn't affect other tiers. In the current wording, some do, and some don't. Obfuscation runs deep in STO. With those changes, all players should get free respecs as well, especially if we find out that one skill we have 9 levels in does absolutely nothing for us.

    And again, in spite of all of these complaints, I've enjoyed STO and look forward to future updates and content. This list is not something that's going to keep me from playing STO, nor is it ammo for an "I quit" thread or "this game sux rant". STO is fun, and it has potential, but it still needs a lot of nurturing to compete in the future MMO market.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    So what needs to be done to help STO "live long and prosper"?

    Give the title to a developer that is capable of committing to fully develop a project before releasing it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    gHz wrote:
    Give the title to a developer that is capable of committing to fully develop a project before releasing it?

    hahaha, well I wouldn't call Cryptic incompetent. But I would agree that it was rushed to release.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hahaha, well I wouldn't call Cryptic incompetent. But I would agree that it was rushed to release.

    Sad but true. Can you imagine what this game could have been if it had a normal development life of 4/5 years?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Wow, really good read. Lots of excellent points made in other threads. To add I'd like to see:

    * More diplomatic options
    * More use of Less Than Lethal weapons - phasers have a stun setting for a reason.
    * Capture options rather than just destroy all enemy ships - look to PotBS for this. You wouldn't actually have access to the ship, it would "disappear" and reard you with merit points, honor for Klingons.
    * Klingons should have more Less Than Lethal options as well, somebody has to work the dilithium mines.
    * Promised features for the Genesis system, including the ability to save a system waypoint, ability to share with friends, and additional random missions generated from said system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hahaha, well I wouldn't call Cryptic incompetent. But I would agree that it was rushed to release.

    Absolutely they are not incompetent, they are just focused on the churn and burn to get whatever the minimum is needed to box it and sell it. It is price point game development, figure out a market and a time frame and then build whatever you can to fit in that slot - good, bad, incomplete, simplistic, whatever - doesn't matter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sad but true. Can you imagine what this game could have been if it had a normal development life of 4/5 years?

    Indeed (and I would discount the engine development time since it's not specific to STO).

    If STO had a more relaxed development schedule we might see a virtual universe that makes even the most hardcore player feel small, or even heaven forbid a PvP side that puts EVE to shame!
    DeWitt_LSF wrote:
    Wow, really good read. Lots of excellent points made in other threads. To add I'd like to see:

    * More diplomatic options
    * More use of Less Than Lethal weapons - phasers have a stun setting for a reason.
    * Capture options rather than just destroy all enemy ships - look to PotBS for this. You wouldn't actually have access to the ship, it would "disappear" and reard you with merit points, honor for Klingons.
    * Klingons should have more Less Than Lethal options as well, somebody has to work the dilithium mines.
    * Promised features for the Genesis system, including the ability to save a system waypoint, ability to share with friends, and additional random missions generated from said system.

    Thanks. :)

    I agree about the whole perspective of the stun setting. Cryptic went the route of all-out-battle instead of incorporating more interesting mechanics. There's still time to add this, but it will be overshadowed now by the traditional MMO grindfest feeling of STO.

    For example, we have to capture and beam up NPCs during some missions. Why not make use of the stun setting for phaser pistols to stun the NPC we need to capture instead of pounding on him until he or she surrenders? I could see this implemented as part of the story, explaining to the player how to do this and even providing a container with a stun pistol for those with just rifles/assault weapons. For now we're stuck with all "pew pew" and no "think think". :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Increased difficultly is #1 on my list. The main reason that I got a refund on my lifetime sub and will no longer be playing (aside from the very well explained reasons from the OP), is the fact that the combat in this game is simply way too easy. Even-level content is a complete joke. There is simply no fun in getting new, cool skills and equipment when they are simply not needed. And it's not like in other mmos, where if content your level is too easy, you just move on to a higher level quest hub. STO is so linear, you have no choice but to do the missions given to you before you can receive new ones.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    A good post, OP. Unfortunately like many others I've decided to cancel my subscription. Cryptic just arn't up to MMO gaming and should try their hand at other genres. If they made this game into a non-mmo experience then I'm sure it would be better received.

    As it is, it has no depth, it's too easy and the game feels like a empty shell compared to even the first MMO's. EQ and Miridian 69 may not have been pretty but at least there was plenty to do!

    Live long and prosper, STO community. I fear this game will not last long.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yes, I do understand the complaints of too easy and no/little depth. I agree, the missions are far too easy. And when they're actually a little challenging, they're far to tedious (note: still not tough, just tedious).

    In ground combat, my shields can drop almost instantly. Then they're recharging back to full very quickly. Balance? I should see measurable damage to me over time, much like how I see damage to enemies' shields and health over time. So on one hand I'm worried how fast my shields go down, and on the other I'm worried that it's not challenging enough because my shields recharge to full so quickly and only after 3-6 seconds of not getting hit. A little odd.

    For space combat, it seems nothing can touch my tier 5 Star Cruiser in regular same or close level PvE content. Same was true for every other cruiser I had except for may be the Miranda. The only challenging encounters are when I fight a ship that takes a long time to kill (ie: the Terran battleship boss at DS9). It's still not doing much to me, and it becomes more tedious to kill than tough. May be it's the mechanics, but everything feels too easy. Don't get me wrong, as I enjoy easy when I just want to relax and sail through some missions. But there are times when I wish I could turn up the difficulty a bit to force me to make better use of my abilities.

    At any rate, STO can be fun, but it is also shallow, repetitive, and tedious. And end-game? Is that purple Anti-Proton weapon really worth the daily grind? No. Do I grind anyway because there is nothing left to do? Yup. Those purple end-game daily grind items are first unnecessary, and second not that much better than others in-game.

    Cryptic, you guys achieved "fun" with the ship combat mechanics (and may be even with ground after open beta), but we now need content, purpose, and a whole lot of bug fixing and polishing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sad but true. Can you imagine what this game could have been if it had a normal development life of 4/5 years?

    Hey, the only people to blame for that are Perpetual. They had the game that long and only had some fancy drawings to show for it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You know...i have read many , many good points in this thread. By all in fact. No one is bashing or trolling. But i have read all these reply's and such and think to myself " Does cryptic even read these forums"? "Does Cryptic even care"? I ve read in the past week too many to count now about cancel and getting a refund on the lifetime sub. I know it s hard work to piece a mmo togther, the bugs and glitched missions i can deal with, but content....end game...and all the points in this thread of gone unoticed it seems. I am a leader of a fleet, and 2 weeks ago we were around 150 active members, now, many have reached admiral, we are down to 75. Either their done with the game or almost have an "alt" at admiral.

    One would think, cryptic would be wise as too answer the "main" issues to put ppl at ease. I ve enjoyed sto and i am a trekkie, but i have watched many ppl quit cause they bore of the game.....and it hasnt been out a month. Cryptic......that right their is a sign. I ve enjoyed this thread....one of the best ones to date imo. I just hope someone that has a say at cryptic reads this thread and acutally cares what their paying customers have to say.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    iceman8370 wrote: »
    You know...i have read many , many good points in this thread. By all in fact. No one is bashing or trolling. But i have read all these reply's and such and think to myself " Does cryptic even read these forums"? "Does Cryptic even care"? I ve read in the past week too many to count now about cancel and getting a refund on the lifetime sub. I know it s hard work to piece a mmo togther, the bugs and glitched missions i can deal with, but content....end game...and all the points in this thread of gone unoticed it seems. I am a leader of a fleet, and 2 weeks ago we were around 150 active members, now, many have reached admiral, we are down to 75. Either their done with the game or almost have an "alt" at admiral.

    One would think, cryptic would be wise as too answer the "main" issues to put ppl at ease. I ve enjoyed sto and i am a trekkie, but i have watched many ppl quit cause they bore of the game.....and it hasnt been out a month. Cryptic......that right their is a sign. I ve enjoyed this thread....one of the best ones to date imo. I just hope someone that has a say at cryptic reads this thread and acutally cares what their paying customers have to say.

    If you check out the Dev Tracker, you'd find that they do read the forums, and they do respond to a lot of stuff on here. The thing is, a lot of people don't bother looking into similar threads, and the devs don't like to repeat themselves over and over.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    funny thing is thats the first thing i read when visiting the forums. all those threads are about if u have common sense is "dog and pony show"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    How many post's do you see them answering the topic "no content"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Awesome Post totally true!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I would like to see a lot of things done with this game but the main thing is content, the fact that there is no content at all at rear admiral 5 astounds me, saying the content is going to come after 45 days shows how rushed the release was.

    Sadly the the future for mmo's is going to be more and more like this release, Cryptic have clearly made a lot of money from the release of a half finished game and if people support this then they will do it again and so will other companies.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Good to see more and more people not getting stuck in the "everything is fine, the game is doing fine, etc etc " bubble. How the game is being perceived on the outside is telling the tale, just like we tried to tell Cryptic and the Cryptic fanbois it would. They can try and spin things all they want, stack the forums with Cryptic employee alts all they want, but that won't help them a lick.

    Unfortunately the damage is done. This game will now never be a "success" as far as the gaming public is concerned. The thing now is for Cryptic to try and save it for those that are still willing to give them a chance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Good OP! Sums it up!

    I played Eve for 5 years and only left the game as family comittments became larger than my gaming ones. Eve set the bar for space games and whilst the combat is not as involved or interesting in some cases as the STO version the game itself is a uniquq one with a purely player driven economy!

    Cryptic sadly have taken the route of a theme park MMO rather than something unique and cashing in on the IP for it to be successful. Whilst there are some elements of STO I actually genuinly like there is much I find shallow and lacking in depth.

    I have mixed feelings as I have moment of really enjoying the game then sheer frustration at the amateurish nature of it's design.

    I'll make my decision in a few weeks when my 30 days expires.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I hope some devs take the time to read this and respond. Some very good ideas here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Great post with some well spoken ideas.


    I also hope this post makes it to the devs. What I would love is some serious feedback on this post. The release of information on what is upcoming was welcomed news, but overall what is this year's goal for STO? Communication is a great way to ease player fears and put rumors to rest. A little bit of info goes a long way...and hey, if you are confident in your game, Cryptic, then you shouldn't worry about putting some ink down for us players. And for heaven's sake, release an official game manual already!

    Thanks! :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    :)

    Thanks for all of the great responses and good views. I'm happy to see that people posted in here while still respecting each other. Very worthwhile posts!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Puzzle solving, diplomacy, science and engineering based non-combat missions. Missions with choice and more than one outcome.

    Non-combat skills.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    HamishUK wrote: »
    Cryptic sadly have taken the route of a theme park MMO rather than something unique and cashing in on the IP for it to be successful.

    By theme park MMO do you mean one that is completely casual and non-obsessive friendly as opposed to EVE, which is the exact opposite?
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