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Player-driven Industry in STO

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Star Trek is open-ended enough where most, if not all, of those mechanics which make most MMOs appeal to such a wide variety of players, can be incorporated somehow. Player housing... Crafting... Economy... It's a BIG galaxy. And not everyone in it HAS to be in the Federation. Some cultures still use money. And there are mining operations... Independent trade organizations, and industrial operations... A replicator can only do so much from a practical standpoint. An industrial-grade replicator may be able to replicate a massive number of hull plate segments, but it still takes members of the Starfleet corps of engineers to install them on a starship frame...

As a suplement to the core gameplay, a fully functional player driven industrial model should be implemented. AFTER the bugs get fixed in the core game, the raidisode systems gets started, and Klingons get some solid PvE options of course.I'd like to use this thread as the framework by which such a system could be implemented in a way that all interested parties can agree on... It could factor heavily into the endgame.

If this does not interest you, then please just move on and don't attempt to derail the discussion. Thanks in advance...

So let constructive and respectful discussion begin...
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I just say no, player driven economy makes no sence in the world of star trek.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kassidus wrote: »
    I just say no, player driven economy makes no sence in the world of star trek.

    Someone clearly didn't bother to read the post. Because I asked that if you aren't interested, just move on. And also, I gave examples of how player driven INDUSTRY does fit within the scope of Star Trek...

    It helps to actually read something instead of just responding with a knee-jerk reaction.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In before the "welcome to Star EVE" posts
    (Not that I think thats what you were driving for but thats how these usually end)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Not going to happen here unfortunatly. In order to have a working economy you would have to remove items from players in some way. Naturaly there are people who hate the idea of losing their pixels and will scream no fair and greedy crafters.

    The current economy and crafting system sucks balls and is doomed to stagnation but it looks like its the best this game is going to get:(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kassidus wrote: »
    I just say no, player driven economy makes no sence in the world of star trek.

    At all...

    Particularly with a system that has SO many different types of currency!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Baltec wrote:
    Not going to happen here unfortunatly. In order to have a working economy you would have to remove items from players in some way. Naturaly there are people who hate the idea of losing their pixels and will scream no fair and greedy crafters.

    The current economy and crafting system sucks balls and is doomed to stagnation but it looks like its the best this game is going to get:(

    Havent yuo gone back to EVE yet?
    Its not a dig, I thought you gave this up a few times now
    nixboox wrote: »
    At all...

    Particularly with a system that has SO many different types of currency!

    ...and replicators
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Havent yuo gone back to EVE yet?
    Its not a dig, I thought you gave this up a few times now

    Never left eve. I just happen to be trapped in 0.0 with a load of angry russians hunting down my bomber so I have time to kill:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Honestly, the world of Star Trek being what it is...

    There's no need for any kind of physical labor.

    As you said, ship parts can be replicated en mass. And they could just as easily be beamed into position. In fact, in the process of rematerialization, they can be molecularly grafted to the adjoining pieces. So there isn't even a need for a final welder.

    For lesser civilizations, yes... all those jobs are out there. But the Federation itself does not need such things.

    And if you're attempting to say that KDF PvE should involve mining and crafting, I think I'd rather take my BoP out and kill stuff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In before the "welcome to Star EVE" posts
    (Not that I think thats what you were driving for but thats how these usually end)

    Is it so bloody hard to resist making a non-contributory post to a topic? If there is little interest, it will drop to obscurity, burried under layers of whining and complaining.

    Do you have any ideas or suggestions as to how something like this might be implemented? If so, then let's hear them. Otherwise, troll elsewhere... please?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Someone clearly didn't bother to read the post. Because I asked that if you aren't interested, just move on. And also, I gave examples of how player driven INDUSTRY does fit within the scope of Star Trek...

    It helps to actually read something instead of just responding with a knee-jerk reaction.

    Hey i did read it, and i stick to what i said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Is it so bloody hard to resist making a non-contributory post to a topic? If there is little interest, it will drop to obscurity, burried under layers of whining and complaining.

    Do you have any ideas or suggestions as to how something like this might be implemented? If so, then let's hear them. Otherwise, troll elsewhere... please?

    grow a sense of humor please
    There are these things called jokes. They tend to be humerous if you arent all "STO IS LIFE" serious.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Baltec wrote:
    Not going to happen here unfortunatly. In order to have a working economy you would have to remove items from players in some way. Naturaly there are people who hate the idea of losing their pixels and will scream no fair and greedy crafters.

    The current economy and crafting system sucks balls and is doomed to stagnation but it looks like its the best this game is going to get:(

    Consumables are where it needs to be... On both the large and small scale... It doesn't need item decay or anything like that to work... It just has to be stuff that people need.

    Deploying automated defense stations and squadrons of NPC ships in Federation controlled territory would create PvE content for the Klingons... THOSE ships and stations would be disposable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Consumables are where it needs to be... On both the large and small scale... It doesn't need item decay or anything like that to work... It just has to be stuff that people need.

    Deploying automated defense stations and squadrons of NPC ships in Federation controlled territory would create PvE content for the Klingons... THOSE ships and stations would be disposable.

    well gotta admit, there would be no shortage of business but who would buy them and what for?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Player driven "Industry" is a great way to foster a healthy community. The first iteration of SWG proved that a well designed and implemented crafting system in combination with the need to buy and sell goods, was very healthy for the game in that it required players to seek out others and create connections with those who could provide said goods.

    In my opinion, THAT kind of interaction is what makes an MMO what it is and not necessarily forced content grouping. A need to create relationships and connections in game is what keeps an MMO healthy and a solidly implemented crafting system coupled with a necessary need to buy and replace goods is one great way to do this. I for one would love to see an SWG like economy and goods system here. It could work regardless of how economics might be different in the Star Trek universe.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    grow a sense of humor please
    There are these things called jokes. They tend to be humerous if you arent all "STO IS LIFE" serious.

    chillax my good man. I got it and thats all that matters;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    For a player economy to properly function there has to be a few things that STO currently lacks. Money sinks, and item loss. Without money sinks there is no method to restrict inflation on player crafted items. Without item loss, the economy will soon stagnate when everyone has everything, or everything they want.

    The other issue that a player economy opens is the gold sellers. Currently, energy credits serve little use. You can get to RA 5 with over a million credits just from selling everything to the replicator and using equipment from loot and exploration badges. Gold sellers will suffocate in the current environment as nobody even needs energy credits to get excellent equipment. With a player economy they will have a market as people will need energy credits to attain things and the spam will be everywhere. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a player economy, I'm just voicing caution and hope that cryptic will institute ways to limit their pull before instituting a player economy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Baltec wrote:
    chillax my good man. I got it and thats all that matters;)

    lol I know right?

    What Item loss does wow have again? I mean by this definition, every crafting system in that game should stagnate except potion making and inscription
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Baltec wrote:
    Not going to happen here unfortunatly. In order to have a working economy you would have to remove items from players in some way. Naturaly there are people who hate the idea of losing their pixels and will scream no fair and greedy crafters.

    The current economy and crafting system sucks balls and is doomed to stagnation but it looks like its the best this game is going to get:(

    Actually, there is a better way:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=120448
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    An_Heron wrote:
    For a player economy to properly function there has to be a few things that STO currently lacks. Money sinks, and item loss. Without money sinks there is no method to restrict inflation on player crafted items. Without item loss, the economy will soon stagnate when everyone has everything, or everything they want.

    The other issue that a player economy opens is the gold sellers. Currently, energy credits serve little use. You can get to RA 5 with over a million credits just from selling everything to the replicator and using equipment from loot and exploration badges. Gold sellers will suffocate in the current environment as nobody even needs energy credits to get excellent equipment. With a player economy they will have a market as people will need energy credits to attain things and the spam will be everywhere. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a player economy, I'm just voicing caution and hope that cryptic will institute ways to limit their pull before instituting a player economy.


    Well, reading about a death penalty to possibly implemented, it could end up that a money sink will be created. If it costs to repair ships, crew or equipment. That itself will bring the currency spammers en masse.

    I think the idea of a player economy is sound, and frankly, it exists in almost every other major mmo. As to inflated prices, take a look at the exchange now. Level 2 shields required for leveling on Memory Alpha are more expensive on the broker than most rares. People are selling (or trying to sell) ordinary tribbles. The current system is inflated beyond belief .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kassidus wrote: »
    I just say no, player driven economy makes no sence in the world of star trek.

    OP, as much as it may pain you to read it, this is actually the truth. A player-driven industry/economy wouldn't be good for this game, as it doesn't have a lot of lore to back up the creation of it. CBS still has a lot of creative control over this game, and they won't let Cryptic stray too far from the IP. Since there never was a de-facto "faction" for this type of stuff, I doubt we'll see it any time soon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    lol I know right?

    What Item loss does wow have again? I mean by this definition, every crafting system in that game should stagnate except potion making and inscription

    as far as I know its just things like arrows that get used up. Armour and weapons last forever but need to be repaired if you die so I guess its a limited consumable economy. SWG had item decay which was a nice system as it ment that the casual games stuff always lasted much much longer than the powergamers stuff so that would be a full economy.

    EVE...well, this guy just says it all:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    seeing how straight forward and nonopen this game is, i doubt that idea you have will work.

    but on a different note, ther is a game that has everything you want and more, its called EvE Online.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Torath wrote:
    Well, reading about a death penalty to possibly implemented, it could end up that a money sink will be created. If it costs to repair ships, crew or equipment.

    Where did you read this?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Baltec wrote:
    well gotta admit, there would be no shortage of business but who would buy them and what for?

    Here's one possible suggestion...

    In addition to enemy signal engagements... imagine if a Klingon general "purchased" a massive number of ships and assembled them into an invading fleet. Say he deploys that fleet to attack Earth... It has to travel through the different sectors to get there, maybe advancing towards its destination one degree every fifteen minutes. A General can only have one fleet deployed at a time, And only one fleet can be deployed to the same target at a time. But several generals combining their resources could strike several Federation sites.

    Federation players can engage in fleet actions to stop the invading fleets from reaching their targets. Failure to stop the fleet would result in enemy ships coming out of warp in all active instances of the destination planet space zone, and enemies beaming down to associated ground locations...

    Of course, Admirals in Starfleet could deploy ships and defensive installations to planets in Federation space that would warp (or beam) in and automatically engage the attackers...

    The result is a form of PvP delivered as PvE content...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zilag wrote:

    An interesting idea that should be added to the game anyway tbh.

    However I am still smitten by the old SWG crafting system. call me odd but I loved getting my hands dirty digging up those mineral and running my business. Afterall someone has to go get the raw materials, even in star trek.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Someone clearly didn't bother to read the post. Because I asked that if you aren't interested, just move on. And also, I gave examples of how player driven INDUSTRY does fit within the scope of Star Trek...

    It helps to actually read something instead of just responding with a knee-jerk reaction.

    So you want an open and honest discussion with only the people who like the idea? That is TRIBBLE in a basket. It's like saying if you don't like my idea don't show up to vote.

    There is room for a system of industry. Not specificly in Starfleet but we do have Ferengy ( spelling ) and I see no problem with it being used in the Klingon Empire or as an underworld market above and beyound the Federation. Clearly trade and industry are common in some parts of the Universe.

    I don't think it's something the Devs should look at any time soon because it offers nothing to enhance the basic play of the game. Would it be cool to have later? Sure. But really if you want a complex trade system there are games that already offer this where it fits the concept of the game much better.
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