If you want to beat yourself up for losing a battle, go right ahead.
You don't have any right to demand that others accompany you to the House of Self Abasement.
NO Death Penalty is needed, nor will it be welcomed, in this game.
Imposing a further penalty to being defeated by a string of code is like -- in fact, it is EXACTLY like -- beating a 3rd Grader for failing a math test.
It does not "inspire" the player to "do better next time", nothing is learned from such penalties, and indeed the only result is to add resentment of the developers to the frustration of having been defeated by their coding.
Because that is actually all that's really happening; no one is playing "stupidly", since there is no way to play "intelligently" agaiunst a mathematical string of probabilities; one cannot "trick" a computer, one can only reason out the hidden patterns and tricks implicit in the programmer's model and attempt to fit one's own actions into the blank pieces of the (hopefully) soluble puzzle the programmer has created.
Doing so is not "intelligent" play, at least not in the intellectual sense of managing a ship in combat or a fire team on the ground.
Rather, it is mix-and-matching, the same mental mechanic used when assembling jigsaw puzzles, and it's all that happens in any computer game, because that's basically all any of them CAN do until computers can think creatively and on the fly.
That doesn't mean it's not fun, and it's certainly very appealing in a visual sense. But it is a logic puzzle, and administering an electric jolt every time you miss a question might make "20 Questions" funny to watch (if you're a TRIBBLE), but it won't be any fun to play (unless you're a TRIBBLE).
"Death penalties" in games are holdovers from 1970's paper-and-pencil roleplaying games, where dying "cost" your character experience points or capabilities.
They were a bad idea then, and to be honest, it worries me to see that they have retained their appeal for some people in a whole new generation of gamers.
Even so, today, "death penalties" in games are the outdated, uninspired and, let's face it, the weak tools of a lazy designer.
The immersion level in games today -- particularly this one -- is so high that the frustration level attendant to defeat is more than sufficient punishment enough for dying.
This is especially true given that not everyone has 8 hours a day to devote to playing this or any other game.
I will be happy to start a movement opposing death penalties in this game, and I will do so here:
If a "death penalty", or any other sort of punishment for player defeat, is added to this game, I will seriously consider cancelling my lifetime subscription and and instruct my credit card company to re-claim the fees. (Yes, I can do that, and so can any of you; read your credit card policies.)
If anyone else is willing to suffer the abuse of paying money and being punished for failing to play perfectly all the time, every time, they are welcome to join me. If not, then I at least will have a good chunk of money back in my pocket and more time to devote to other games whose designers, unlike those who clamor for a "death penalty" in tis game, actually "get" what an adventure game should be about.
So far, Cryptic has shown itself to be ready, willing and able to do a GREAT job on this game, and it will only get better over time, unless they listen to suggestions like "death penalties", which can only make it worse.
For each person who doesn't want a DP there's probaby a dozen who do. Also, there is a system in place for a DP, it's just not turned on right now. It involved the loss of Crew - which then reduced your ship's efficiency. The Crew will periodically need to be replaced at a Starbase. Right now STO has Crew Regen turned on super-high.
i more or less agree. a death penalty would put me off of the game as well.
the death penalty in aion didn't seem to harsh, 4% exp loss 3/4 of which is recoverable by paying a fee, which removes resets the progressive debuff as well.
until my bro went broke wiping in buggy content over and over again at mid level. until i was saddled with a 5 minute debuff that i couldn't remove without going all the way back to town. until i learned that the debuff still happened after hitting max level and you would be on the hook for hundreds of thousands if not millions of game currency even with a full exp bar at 50 or deal with a crippling 5 minute debuff.
Aion is ofc doing quite well in asia, where they don't enforce the botting and RMT policies as fiercely as they do in teh west. and i've played aion on asia servers, and all you see is bots in the questing areas. but in NA and EU, people are quitting the game in droves, not just due to the DP ofc, but that's definitely a part of it. the servers are empty. you can count the number of people in each zone on your fingers.
I kind of agree and thats why i don't do pvp. I spend more time waiting to respawn then I do playing and that is in no way fun. and if they add an additional penalty to that I mean why bother?
I do think they should add a death penalty though and that should be perma death, instant deletion of that character. If your stupid enough to keep fighting till you die then that should be the only penalty. Also that would allow for retreats and actual tactics other then run in kill repeat. Or how about if you die you are kicked out of that mission/pvp/etc and can not get back in for 2 hours. This would also stop afk'rs and it won't waste my play time as I can then move on to something else and still play.
Because a death penalty is a key mechanic to preventing griefing and disruptive play. Although STO is more of a single player game than an MMO, it does still have a shared community. The community is damaged every time someone uses the lack of a death penalty to defeat content above their level. The community is damaged because no one ever has to depend on anyone else.
Death Penalties encourage player cooperation. Without them, there is no motivation to create anything other than an Escort flying, damage focused character. A significant number of skills (buffs, shield regen, etc) are worthless because there is no benefit to using them. In fact, trying to play this game with a 'well rounded' group and having different captains handle non-dps duties (buffing, debuffing, healing, etc) is actually a handicap. Currently it's always better to simply charge in guns blazing, dish out the most damage you can before dying, respawn, repeat.
The lack of a death penalty is one of the fundamental reasons why so many people find the current missions and combat mechanics boring. There is no thrill in winning an encounter that is impossible to fail. There is no reason to learn new skills and tactics when they don't actually impact your chance of winning.
Half of the content in this game (healing/repair items, skills, etc) are completely meaningless without a death penalty because there is no reason to ever use them to try and prevent death. Shields and hull worn down? Whats the fastest/best way to recover? It SHOULD be to rely on your team mates to transfer power to your shields, to defend you, to draw aggro, etc. Instead, it's faster to simply die and respawn at full.
No death penalty = boring game that everyone will tire of quickly.
Why would anyone want a death penalty? Have you people never played Eve. Spend 3 months working to build the ship of your dreams and then have it taken away in 2 seconds by some goon in a swarm of pre pubescent hysteria. STO is fun to play, it's not a chore and I don't want it to be. What the other poster said about Aion is so true, what a beautiful game that's totally ruined by bots, because everyone has to buy Kinah to pay the resurection witch! Don't ruin STO, please!
The children who played STO for 2 weeks solid and are admirals now are upset because they have nothing to do. You want a death penalty? Kill your admiral and start over. Next time, read the missions and enjoy the game like the rest of us. There's your death penalty!
DPs make people bored of the game more quickly, not the other way around. Those who scream for insane and asinine DPs are in the minority, they are just a reptitive and vocal minority, which in turn makes them look like a larger group.
I will only support a very few DP models in this game... crew reduction like it is now, but toned down some. Making random systems fail - which is a very Trek thing to do...
This game is not set up right to handle ridiculously TRIBBLE DPs like in other games, mostly because of the instancing, and because players treat this more like a single player... when was the last time someone randomly buffed or healed you?
LOL, I won't debate once again with this stupid argue that consist to say it isn't a shame that DYING is a more valid strategy to win than NOT DYING (anyonbody with an IQ superior than his car will understand this) since the last time I did, some kid reported me (because Ireplied him he was a joke) and this "insulting".
So play without DP, be a kid your whole life and report me for saying you are a kid.
Because a death penalty is a key mechanic to preventing griefing and disruptive play. Although STO is more of a single player game than an MMO, it does still have a shared community. The community is damaged every time someone uses the lack of a death penalty to defeat content above their level. The community is damaged because no one ever has to depend on anyone else.
Death Penalties encourage player cooperation. Without them, there is no motivation to create anything other than an Escort flying, damage focused character. A significant number of skills (buffs, shield regen, etc) are worthless because there is no benefit to using them. In fact, trying to play this game with a 'well rounded' group and having different captains handle non-dps duties (buffing, debuffing, healing, etc) is actually a handicap. Currently it's always better to simply charge in guns blazing, dish out the most damage you can before dying, respawn, repeat.
The lack of a death penalty is one of the fundamental reasons why so many people find the current missions and combat mechanics boring. There is no thrill in winning an encounter that is impossible to fail. There is no reason to learn new skills and tactics when they don't actually impact your chance of winning.
Half of the content in this game (healing/repair items, skills, etc) are completely meaningless without a death penalty because there is no reason to ever use them to try and prevent death. Shields and hull worn down? Whats the fastest/best way to recover? It SHOULD be to rely on your team mates to transfer power to your shields, to defend you, to draw aggro, etc. Instead, it's faster to simply die and respawn at full.
No death penalty = boring game that everyone will tire of quickly.
1) why?
2) griefing and disruptive play most often rely on death penalties. even in factional games with death penalties, people still mob train people on their own faction for fun.
3)DPs encourage players to rely on themselves only. mutliple accounts to rez yourself or buff yourself as much currency as required to buy items which recover exp or allow instant escape from combat.
3) if players find STO broing it's because ti doesn't diferentiate itself in quest objectives from any other quest driven mmo.
4)i use my boff's healing abilities in combat. i use hyposprays to stay alive. i haven't found a use for batteries yet, but my admiral fleet mate is asking us to collect them for hiim.
the fastest way to recover from near defeat is to win and then take a few more seconds to repair. you'll be at 100% before you know it. even faster if you use healing items.
As for the OP, if a third grader dies, you have a funeral - because there's a dead third grader! :P No one beats up a dead third grader for dying!
Without a penalty, players can just walk into instances as a team and Lt Cmdr. Leeroy Jenkins decides to kill himself and aggro every Klingon because "I'll be back in the fight in 15 seconds." How is this fair for the rest of the team working to accomplish the mission?
As it stands the current "death penalty" is to merely give you a "lifebar cooldown counter" or respawn timer.
My solution to the death penalty actually encourages crafting AND rewards players for tactics: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=121440
LOL, I won't debate once again with this stupid argue that consist to say it isn't a shame that DYING is a more valid strategy to win than NOT DYING (anyonbody with an IQ superior than his car will understand this) since the last time I did, some kid reported me (because Ireplied him he was a joke) and this "insulting".
So play without DP, be a kid your whole life and report me for saying you are a kid.
You argues are just plain pathetic, period.
Judging by the abusive tone in your barely intelligible post, I think they reported you for more than simply calling them a kid.
No one randomly buffs/heals anyone because there is no benefit to doing so. Until a death penalty is added, there will never be a reason for players to interact other than external reasons (such as a desire to play a game with a friend). There is no need to 'make friends' in STO, or to form fleets, or anything social at all, because the gameplay mechanics do not reward such behavior, and in fact, discourage it.
Yes, some players will do these things anyway, but the majority of players will not. The game has to encourage player interaction otherwise only those players who have outside-of-game reasons to interact will do so. For example, I do nearly every mission in a group with my wife, and a few friends from previous MMOs. I do this because I like playing with these people. However, the game itself doesn't give us any reason to play this way, and in fact, due to instancing issues where we end up in separate instances, it actually discourages us from playing as a team. Additionally, even though I'm a tactics officer and my wife is a science officer, there is no practical difference between our characters. There's never a reason for her to use her science powers to boost my shields, because that just takes both of us out of the fight. It's much better for her to focus on doing damage, and if I die, I'll just respawn and rejoin the fight in 20 seconds. Half of her skill-tree is completely useless because if she were to use those skills instead of doing damage, encounters would last longer and be harder to defeat.
Death penalties encourage player interaction and the development of tactics and strategy. These are crucial components to the long-term success of any subscription based game model.
Thats a poor arguement for wanting a DP. Other games have them and the community and team play is just as terrible as if it doesnt have a DP.
If anything they should kick us out of the instance and make us come back in. lol Thats basically what they did in wow. Ever been in Deadmines or something and you get overwhelmed or make a mistake and end up back in the little town and have to run back and then trudge through all the mobs again? Lotro did it too. By the time you get back into the instance the DP was gone.
Theres other ways to promote community and teamwork other than an arbitrary DP that serves no purpose than to frustrate the players.
Personally I think the game needs one. But not before other elements of the game are sorted (npc camping spawn points in DSE's for one example). You can disagree with me if you wish. MMO's need them and have them for very valid reasons. I ain't going to list them, and I don't need to in order to justify my position on the matter.
What is the point in any of the survivability bridge officer skills if there's no hurt in dying? You just die, fly right back into the fray and try to take another ship out.
A game must give a player meaningful play, and in my opinion there's nothing meaningful in just suicide running every pack of enemies.
XP loss? No.
Lose your ship/items? No.
Crippling debuffs? No.
I played Champions Online for quite a bit, and the system they had was new to me: The better you do, the stronger you are, the more you die the weaker you are. That would be an acceptable death penalty on the ground.
In space? If you go to some of the star bases there are crew requisition officers there, where you can purchase different numbers of crew to refill your ship. It's my understanding that this is supposed to be a death penalty in space thing. When you take damage there's two states your crew goes into. Orange, or disabled, and grey, dead. Currently the crew regenerates fast, but they could easily take that out and have you go to a starbase to requisition more people. At heavy damage (maybe <50% hull) hits have a chance to kill off crew (>50% they just get disabled) and on death you lose 1/4 of your total. Over time your disabled crew returns to able bodied condition, and maybe dead crew will regenerate, but at a very slow rate.
That's not extremely crippling and I think it's a good incentive to not die. Not only that, it brings a little bit of immersion along with it, because as Kirk would say, "...you will protect this ship at all costs..."
No one randomly buffs/heals anyone because there is no benefit to doing so. Until a death penalty is added, there will never be a reason for players to interact other than external reasons (such as a desire to play a game with a friend). There is no need to 'make friends' in STO, or to form fleets, or anything social at all, because the gameplay mechanics do not reward such behavior, and in fact, discourage it.
Yes, some players will do these things anyway, but the majority of players will not. The game has to encourage player interaction otherwise only those players who have outside-of-game reasons to interact will do so. For example, I do nearly every mission in a group with my wife, and a few friends from previous MMOs. I do this because I like playing with these people. However, the game itself doesn't give us any reason to play this way, and in fact, due to instancing issues where we end up in separate instances, it actually discourages us from playing as a team. Additionally, even though I'm a tactics officer and my wife is a science officer, there is no practical difference between our characters. There's never a reason for her to use her science powers to boost my shields, because that just takes both of us out of the fight. It's much better for her to focus on doing damage, and if I die, I'll just respawn and rejoin the fight in 20 seconds. Half of her skill-tree is completely useless because if she were to use those skills instead of doing damage, encounters would last longer and be harder to defeat.
Death penalties encourage player interaction and the development of tactics and strategy. These are crucial components to the long-term success of any subscription based game model.
i get buffs and heals all the time when i pvp. i'm not sure how much they actually benefit me, but they still do.
if it is more efficient not use sci ships abilities, that sounds like more of a class issue than a DP issue, and from what i hear, certain sci abilities are extremely powerful in pvp.
I don't believe in any stringency yet but I don't believe DP should exist outside of solo or teams where someone has invited everyone in PvE. The game is still in its infancy with other issues that should come first.
I play games with death penalties and truth betold it doesn't change anything about how people play. They f up and die, get debt, learn nothing, f up and die the same way again and sometimes make other peoples survival skydive too.
You insult me with my poor english so I spoke in my own language you don't understand at all.
At least I try to speak YOUR language, you should keep this in mind. If you can debate in my language, you'll I'm not that impossible to comprehend.
It means badger in French, but I guess it also means fool... *shrug*
And I didnt insult you... I commented on how you seemed to be in a huff while posting, which made you type alot worse. If you calm down you are more intelligible.
It means badger in French, but I guess it also means fool... *shrug*
And I didnt insult you... I commented on how you seemed to be in a huff while posting, which made you type alot worse. If you calm down you are more intelligible.
oh ok, my bad then.
Actually I'm not more inteliigible while calm since I am...problem was yesterday at 23h00 so you know...
2) griefing and disruptive play most often rely on death penalties. even in factional games with death penalties, people still mob train people on their own faction for fun.
3)DPs encourage players to rely on themselves only. mutliple accounts to rez yourself or buff yourself as much currency as required to buy items which recover exp or allow instant escape from combat.
3) if players find STO broing it's because ti doesn't diferentiate itself in quest objectives from any other quest driven mmo.
4)i use my boff's healing abilities in combat. i use hyposprays to stay alive. i haven't found a use for batteries yet, but my admiral fleet mate is asking us to collect them for hiim.
the fastest way to recover from near defeat is to win and then take a few more seconds to repair. you'll be at 100% before you know it. even faster if you use healing items.
2) There are a lot of different ways to grief other players. Some of those ways are encouraged by death penalties, some are not. Generally, disruptive play is discouraged by a death penalty. For example, people wouldn't TRIBBLE up the Crystaline Entity encounter for others if there was a death penalty. People would be less likely to use suicide tactics to 'win' fleet actions, etc.
3) Sure, some people will use multiple accounts for that purpose. Great, more money for Cryptic from extra subscriptions. However, for most people it would be motivation to make friends in game, to form groups and fleets. In the vast majority of cases it would encourage player interaction (ie: Looking for Science officer to join our group...)
3b) Sure, that's another reason to find STO boring. However, if combat was more interesting because it required tactics and strategy, it would make the game as a whole less boring. Again, without risk encounters are meaningless. Right now STO is in no-fail mode. You cannot fail any mission or task. Without a risk of failure, there is no real reward for success either. How long would you play a game that had an 'instant win' button? Most might mess with it for a few minutes, but once the novelty wore off, they'll move on to something more interesting.
4) Good for you. However, there's no in-game benefit for doing this. You would have won anyway, and probably faster.
Your final statement is incorrect. It takes longer than 20 seconds for a nearly destroyed ship to regen hull and shields to full. It is faster to die and respawn.
The statement that suiciding works best is simply false.
If by chance you were referring to my post, I didn't mean that suiciding your way through was viable. I was just taking a worst case scenario into account to prove a point.
I found that a group staying alive works mission very fast. .... because people do not have to fly in from the last respawn point i guess...
The statement that suiciding works best is simply false.
It depends on the encounter. In some, the respawn point is far enough away that the flight time is a factor, however, in most missions it's close enough that it's faster to die and respawn.
However, what is more open to abuse is the fact that you can use suicide tactics to defeat higher level encounters that you shouldn't be able to win, obtaining loot above your tier.
Did you ever play the original EQ and have to retrieve your loot and body? From Kithicor Forest? At night?
I can see why people would want a DP in some instances, getting people together to traverse a zone for a res or whatever is alot of fun, but the kids who liked that sort of thing when EQ was new, have grown up, have kids, and generally dont have the time anymore...
Theres a reason why stuff like this is called the Golden Age: its in the past. Trying to relieve the glory days is one thing, trying to make everyone else do so is another. lol
Comments
You're probably wrong.
the death penalty in aion didn't seem to harsh, 4% exp loss 3/4 of which is recoverable by paying a fee, which removes resets the progressive debuff as well.
until my bro went broke wiping in buggy content over and over again at mid level. until i was saddled with a 5 minute debuff that i couldn't remove without going all the way back to town. until i learned that the debuff still happened after hitting max level and you would be on the hook for hundreds of thousands if not millions of game currency even with a full exp bar at 50 or deal with a crippling 5 minute debuff.
Aion is ofc doing quite well in asia, where they don't enforce the botting and RMT policies as fiercely as they do in teh west. and i've played aion on asia servers, and all you see is bots in the questing areas. but in NA and EU, people are quitting the game in droves, not just due to the DP ofc, but that's definitely a part of it. the servers are empty. you can count the number of people in each zone on your fingers.
so do suicide bombers.
I do think they should add a death penalty though and that should be perma death, instant deletion of that character. If your stupid enough to keep fighting till you die then that should be the only penalty. Also that would allow for retreats and actual tactics other then run in kill repeat. Or how about if you die you are kicked out of that mission/pvp/etc and can not get back in for 2 hours. This would also stop afk'rs and it won't waste my play time as I can then move on to something else and still play.
Why?
Because a death penalty is a key mechanic to preventing griefing and disruptive play. Although STO is more of a single player game than an MMO, it does still have a shared community. The community is damaged every time someone uses the lack of a death penalty to defeat content above their level. The community is damaged because no one ever has to depend on anyone else.
Death Penalties encourage player cooperation. Without them, there is no motivation to create anything other than an Escort flying, damage focused character. A significant number of skills (buffs, shield regen, etc) are worthless because there is no benefit to using them. In fact, trying to play this game with a 'well rounded' group and having different captains handle non-dps duties (buffing, debuffing, healing, etc) is actually a handicap. Currently it's always better to simply charge in guns blazing, dish out the most damage you can before dying, respawn, repeat.
The lack of a death penalty is one of the fundamental reasons why so many people find the current missions and combat mechanics boring. There is no thrill in winning an encounter that is impossible to fail. There is no reason to learn new skills and tactics when they don't actually impact your chance of winning.
Half of the content in this game (healing/repair items, skills, etc) are completely meaningless without a death penalty because there is no reason to ever use them to try and prevent death. Shields and hull worn down? Whats the fastest/best way to recover? It SHOULD be to rely on your team mates to transfer power to your shields, to defend you, to draw aggro, etc. Instead, it's faster to simply die and respawn at full.
No death penalty = boring game that everyone will tire of quickly.
The children who played STO for 2 weeks solid and are admirals now are upset because they have nothing to do. You want a death penalty? Kill your admiral and start over. Next time, read the missions and enjoy the game like the rest of us. There's your death penalty!
I will only support a very few DP models in this game... crew reduction like it is now, but toned down some. Making random systems fail - which is a very Trek thing to do...
This game is not set up right to handle ridiculously TRIBBLE DPs like in other games, mostly because of the instancing, and because players treat this more like a single player... when was the last time someone randomly buffed or healed you?
So play without DP, be a kid your whole life and report me for saying you are a kid.
You argues are just plain pathetic, period.
1) why?
2) griefing and disruptive play most often rely on death penalties. even in factional games with death penalties, people still mob train people on their own faction for fun.
3)DPs encourage players to rely on themselves only. mutliple accounts to rez yourself or buff yourself as much currency as required to buy items which recover exp or allow instant escape from combat.
3) if players find STO broing it's because ti doesn't diferentiate itself in quest objectives from any other quest driven mmo.
4)i use my boff's healing abilities in combat. i use hyposprays to stay alive. i haven't found a use for batteries yet, but my admiral fleet mate is asking us to collect them for hiim.
the fastest way to recover from near defeat is to win and then take a few more seconds to repair. you'll be at 100% before you know it. even faster if you use healing items.
Without a penalty, players can just walk into instances as a team and Lt Cmdr. Leeroy Jenkins decides to kill himself and aggro every Klingon because "I'll be back in the fight in 15 seconds." How is this fair for the rest of the team working to accomplish the mission?
As it stands the current "death penalty" is to merely give you a "lifebar cooldown counter" or respawn timer.
My solution to the death penalty actually encourages crafting AND rewards players for tactics:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=121440
Tasha Yarr totally wanted a DP with Data and the ship's computer. She was practically begging them in that one episode.
Judging by the abusive tone in your barely intelligible post, I think they reported you for more than simply calling them a kid.
My "barely intelligible post" ?
Ok blaireau, on va le faire dans ma langue alors, tu pr
Yes, some players will do these things anyway, but the majority of players will not. The game has to encourage player interaction otherwise only those players who have outside-of-game reasons to interact will do so. For example, I do nearly every mission in a group with my wife, and a few friends from previous MMOs. I do this because I like playing with these people. However, the game itself doesn't give us any reason to play this way, and in fact, due to instancing issues where we end up in separate instances, it actually discourages us from playing as a team. Additionally, even though I'm a tactics officer and my wife is a science officer, there is no practical difference between our characters. There's never a reason for her to use her science powers to boost my shields, because that just takes both of us out of the fight. It's much better for her to focus on doing damage, and if I die, I'll just respawn and rejoin the fight in 20 seconds. Half of her skill-tree is completely useless because if she were to use those skills instead of doing damage, encounters would last longer and be harder to defeat.
Death penalties encourage player interaction and the development of tactics and strategy. These are crucial components to the long-term success of any subscription based game model.
I didn't.
You insult me with my poor english so I spoke in my own language you don't understand at all.
At least I try to speak YOUR language, you should keep this in mind. If you can debate in my language, you'll I'm not that impossible to comprehend.
COV/COH: with the ammount of deaths in this game, I wuit when I was a whole level in debt.
EVE: losing everything you worked hard to get by griefers, plus run the risk of losing all your training.
SWG : once you hit jedi ( pre nge) grinding XP and losing a lot when you were hunted by a BH, sometimes 3 at one time.
There is not reason to have DP on STO.
Most people that want DP are griefers anyway.
If anything they should kick us out of the instance and make us come back in. lol Thats basically what they did in wow. Ever been in Deadmines or something and you get overwhelmed or make a mistake and end up back in the little town and have to run back and then trudge through all the mobs again? Lotro did it too. By the time you get back into the instance the DP was gone.
Theres other ways to promote community and teamwork other than an arbitrary DP that serves no purpose than to frustrate the players.
http://kotaku.com/5475207/cryptic-considering-a-more-meaningful-death-penalty-for-star-trek-online
Personally I think the game needs one. But not before other elements of the game are sorted (npc camping spawn points in DSE's for one example). You can disagree with me if you wish. MMO's need them and have them for very valid reasons. I ain't going to list them, and I don't need to in order to justify my position on the matter.
A game must give a player meaningful play, and in my opinion there's nothing meaningful in just suicide running every pack of enemies.
XP loss? No.
Lose your ship/items? No.
Crippling debuffs? No.
I played Champions Online for quite a bit, and the system they had was new to me: The better you do, the stronger you are, the more you die the weaker you are. That would be an acceptable death penalty on the ground.
In space? If you go to some of the star bases there are crew requisition officers there, where you can purchase different numbers of crew to refill your ship. It's my understanding that this is supposed to be a death penalty in space thing. When you take damage there's two states your crew goes into. Orange, or disabled, and grey, dead. Currently the crew regenerates fast, but they could easily take that out and have you go to a starbase to requisition more people. At heavy damage (maybe <50% hull) hits have a chance to kill off crew (>50% they just get disabled) and on death you lose 1/4 of your total. Over time your disabled crew returns to able bodied condition, and maybe dead crew will regenerate, but at a very slow rate.
That's not extremely crippling and I think it's a good incentive to not die. Not only that, it brings a little bit of immersion along with it, because as Kirk would say, "...you will protect this ship at all costs..."
i get buffs and heals all the time when i pvp. i'm not sure how much they actually benefit me, but they still do.
if it is more efficient not use sci ships abilities, that sounds like more of a class issue than a DP issue, and from what i hear, certain sci abilities are extremely powerful in pvp.
I play games with death penalties and truth betold it doesn't change anything about how people play. They f up and die, get debt, learn nothing, f up and die the same way again and sometimes make other peoples survival skydive too.
It means badger in French, but I guess it also means fool... *shrug*
And I didnt insult you... I commented on how you seemed to be in a huff while posting, which made you type alot worse. If you calm down you are more intelligible.
The statement that suiciding works best is simply false.
oh ok, my bad then.
Actually I'm not more inteliigible while calm since I am...problem was yesterday at 23h00 so you know...
No no no, I'm just awful in english
3) Sure, some people will use multiple accounts for that purpose. Great, more money for Cryptic from extra subscriptions. However, for most people it would be motivation to make friends in game, to form groups and fleets. In the vast majority of cases it would encourage player interaction (ie: Looking for Science officer to join our group...)
3b) Sure, that's another reason to find STO boring. However, if combat was more interesting because it required tactics and strategy, it would make the game as a whole less boring. Again, without risk encounters are meaningless. Right now STO is in no-fail mode. You cannot fail any mission or task. Without a risk of failure, there is no real reward for success either. How long would you play a game that had an 'instant win' button? Most might mess with it for a few minutes, but once the novelty wore off, they'll move on to something more interesting.
4) Good for you. However, there's no in-game benefit for doing this. You would have won anyway, and probably faster.
Your final statement is incorrect. It takes longer than 20 seconds for a nearly destroyed ship to regen hull and shields to full. It is faster to die and respawn.
If by chance you were referring to my post, I didn't mean that suiciding your way through was viable. I was just taking a worst case scenario into account to prove a point.
However, what is more open to abuse is the fact that you can use suicide tactics to defeat higher level encounters that you shouldn't be able to win, obtaining loot above your tier.
Did you ever play the original EQ and have to retrieve your loot and body? From Kithicor Forest? At night?
I can see why people would want a DP in some instances, getting people together to traverse a zone for a res or whatever is alot of fun, but the kids who liked that sort of thing when EQ was new, have grown up, have kids, and generally dont have the time anymore...
Theres a reason why stuff like this is called the Golden Age: its in the past.