Wow...guess what...not everyone dashes in ..how did you put.."Wlly nilly". I for one and I'm sure many others use..what's it called again..oh yes.."TACTICS". and do our darndest to NOT DIE AT ALL. You want some sort of punishment for getting defeated...well there are plenty more that don't...and I think that those that don't outnumber those that do....how do I know....look at the gazillion other threads covering this dead and bloated horse topic and you will see more against than for.
Yeah, wise guy.. but if.. what's it called again.. oh yes.. "TACTICS".. arent necessary to.. what's it called again.. oh yes.. "WIN" an encounter... then what is the value of the.. whats it called again... oh yes... "VICTORY"?
Yeah, wise guy.. but if.. what's it called again.. oh yes.. "TACTICS".. arent necessary to.. what's it called again.. oh yes.. "WIN" an encounter... then what is the value of the.. whats it called again... oh yes... "VICTORY"?
sheesh..
Let me explain it to you...the absence of a DP does not preclude a MATURE player from using TACTICS and savoring the VICTORY free of getting blown up and having to respawn. Get it..prolly not.
I agree and disagree. It's too soon and too many need the learning curve. I have fun as it is doing my best not to die. I get irritated when I have to respawn, and I do everything I can not to. Do I need someone making me put in another quarter to get a sense of worth? No. Do I want a reason to have a need for different Ship type? Yes. But it will all come with time, I'm sure. I just hope there is a happy medium. I would like to see the little escort DPSers who do max damage and gloat at drops they get in fleet actions taste a little pain though
Let me explain it to you...the absence of a DP does not preclude a MATURE player from using TACTICS and savoring the VICTORY free of getting blown up and having to respawn. Get it..prolly not.
sheesh
No.. I get it.. I play still.. and I use tactics and try not to get blown up.. that's not what I'm saying... What i am saying is.. there is really no risk involved... You KNOW you are going to beat an encounter going in.. with no possibility of losing anything more than perhaps a miniscule amount of time... If you dont die at all.. or if you die 5 times... the difference is what??? 1.3 minutes? And the reward is the same..
No.. I get it.. I play still.. and I use tactics and try not to get blown up.. that's not what I'm saying... What i am saying is.. there is really no risk involved... You KNOW you are going to beat an encounter going in.. with no possibility of losing anything more than perhaps a miniscule amount of time... If you dont die at all.. or if you die 5 times... the difference is what??? 1.3 minutes? And the reward is the same..
And with the DP what are you going to do...?
Play the mission over till you get it right only thing is you will be shorter on credits and may have to replace consoles or weapons...no thanks... the result is the same..you always win the mission no matter how long it takes. DP is nothing but a time sink...spending time to recup the progress you just made whether it be recovering credits you had to spend on crew replacements or lost consoles to gaining back the exp you you lost because some a**hat got the team wiped. Been there done that...don't need it here.
And with the DP what are you going to do...?
Play the mission over till you get it right only thing is you will be shorter on credits and may have to replace consoles or weapons...no thanks... the result is the same..you always win the mission no matter how long it takes. DP is nothing but a time sink...spending time to recup the progress you just made whether it be recovering credits you had to spend on crew replacements or lost consoles to gaining back the exp you you lost because some a**hat got the team wiped. Been there done that...don't need it here.
Well.. with the current system.. you can expect alot of as*hat Admirals out there who never needed to care whether or not their tactics were effective.. bank on that.. And you just may find them in your group... Oh yeah... it DOESNT MATTER if the group wipes... nice game...
In real life we avoid death because we have a habit of avoiding pain of all sorts that extends from our childhood, not because of a penalty. In a game there is no real need to add incentive to not die - people already have the habit, and are trying to avoid death anyway. They keep acting as if there is a cost to death.
Lets look at Eve online as a example. Eve gives you an elaborate death experience that's "great" if your on the killing side. Unfortunately, getting your current mission terminated, weeks of work destroyed in lost income, lost ship, lost components and implants, being killed a second time as your pod is destroyed, and then having people laugh and say "grow up" as they wait at a chokepoint with their gang for another victim, is not fun gameplay for most people. That's why in Eve most people stay hiding in their space stations, and instead of delight, the game has a feeling of paranoia.
I think the STO game designers made the right choice here.
In real life we avoid death because we have a habit of avoiding pain of all sorts that extends from our childhood, not because of a penalty. In a game there is no real need to add incentive to not die - people already have the habit, and are trying to avoid death anyway. They keep acting as if there is a cost to death.
Lets look at Eve online as a example. Eve gives you an elaborate death experience that's "great" if your on the killing side. Unfortunately, getting your current mission terminated, weeks of work destroyed in lost income, lost ship, lost components and implants, being killed a second time as your pod is destroyed, and then having people laugh and say "grow up" as they wait at a chokepoint with their gang for another victim, is not fun gameplay for most people. That's why in Eve most people stay hiding in their space stations, and instead of delight, the game has a feeling of paranoia.
I think the STO game designers made the right choice here.
Enjoy the game, but it's really missing some type of penalty.
It really reduces the thrill knowing my ship can blow up and I respawn a few kilometers away. Or my entire away team goes down, and we all just jump back up.
I would've really preferred a system where if the party wipes out, you have to restart the episode.
At least add repair costs, or bridge officer death, something!
There definitely needs to be some kind of death penalty!! Please.
Quit the game and stab your self in the eye with a skill saw, Let people have fun. you wanna kill pvp do this...
Well.. with the current system.. you can expect alot of as*hat Admirals out there who never needed to care whether or not their tactics were effective.. bank on that.. And you just may find them in your group... Oh yeah... it DOESNT MATTER if the group wipes... nice game...
Well you kow what..those are easily identified and put on ignore...done deal. And group wipes happen DP or no DP...but what doesn't happen is stupid time sinks or other such meaningless TRIBBLE.
Enjoy the game, but it's really missing some type of penalty.
It really reduces the thrill knowing my ship can blow up and I respawn a few kilometers away. Or my entire away team goes down, and we all just jump back up.
I would've really preferred a system where if the party wipes out, you have to restart the episode.
At least add repair costs, or bridge officer death, something!
There definitely needs to be some kind of death penalty!! Please.
Excellent point Alex, PVP without a death penalty is a god mode grind without enjoyment. A moderate penalty and reward system needs to be implemented, along with open zone pvp.
This ain't Texas people. Go play EVE if you want to handicap yourself every time you die. :cool:
whatcho got against us texans!??!:eek:
seriously though no artificial death penalty is the way to go, if your doing suicide runs cause it's faster you gaming the play rather than playing the game, you deserve to be bored in that case.
Most of the people posting on the forums are not 12 year old kamikaze gamers. Most of the people posting on the forums whether the desire the DP or not...simply are not those types of players.
Whether you like the death penalty, or not, you have to admit there are unskilled players out there that simply fly around, shoot everything, and if they die...oh well, it was fun. I have personally watched a ship fly into like 40 others ships, and blow up over and over again....the guy eventually fly near me and drew them all to me as well.
I am sure there are just as many people who do not want the dealth penalty that do, who use tactics and situational responses to stay alive as best they can.
The issue I have is this...without the death penalty, how do we weed out the 'yahoos' in the game who just fly around, blow up, and still manage to accomplish everything. I would hate to thing that I went into a mission for example, and had some high end gear go to the 12 year old player who just flew around and got killed without contributing anything.
Also, without any sort of reward or punishment for not dying, what is the point of having different ship classes. In fact, Cryptic goes so far as to call the different ships, tanks, etc. What would be the point if there was no DP...everyone would only want the most DPS applying ship there was.
Finally, the economy needs some sort of way to limit it's spending and collecting. Right now, it is really easy to make credits. Without a monetary penalty for example, the economy with be astronomical. All ready on the exchange, some purple items are in the millions. I do not want to try and figure out if I should buy the item that is 3,544,454,444,444 dollars or not....come on.
Enjoy the game, but it's really missing some type of penalty.
It really reduces the thrill knowing my ship can blow up and I respawn a few kilometers away. Or my entire away team goes down, and we all just jump back up.
I would've really preferred a system where if the party wipes out, you have to restart the episode.
At least add repair costs, or bridge officer death, something!
There definitely needs to be some kind of death penalty!! Please.
I couldn't agree more. I made the comparison in another thread that a game of this kind with no death penalty is like playing Poker for no money. It's still Poker, but it really takes the life out of it.
If you say you don't want a death penalty - aren't you essentially asking for a game you cannot lose?
Yeah, pretty much. Even the most basic games have some sort of death penalty. What if, in Super Mario Bros, whenever you died, you just re-appeared back on the screen? Not only would you re-appear right where you left off, but you would be big with fireballs. That's how STO currently handles death. Not only do you start back right where you left off, but your ship is magically repaired. Why bother to wait for your hull to be repaired if you can just die and speed up the process?
Enjoy the game, but it's really missing some type of penalty.
It really reduces the thrill knowing my ship can blow up and I respawn a few kilometers away. Or my entire away team goes down, and we all just jump back up.
I would've really preferred a system where if the party wipes out, you have to restart the episode.
At least add repair costs, or bridge officer death, something!
There definitely needs to be some kind of death penalty!! Please.
yes to maybe being charged for ship repairs, and upon paying ship repairs will warp you to your last confrontation on the map..
No to buying a new ship and No to decay.. sometimes when you are afk and a deep space encounter spawns on you, you are put right in the middle of the battle.. not fair.
Im a fan of decay if the economy and the penalty is reasonable.
If you say you don't want a death penalty - aren't you essentially asking for a game you cannot lose?
Where's the fun in that? If you cannot lose, who cares if you win?
Um,,, I have yet to come across an MMO, where you loose.
I could see repair costs, we need some sort of money sink or the economy is going to get real funky, but if I start loosing items and ships then your ruining the game.
I'm not for a harsh death penalty, but some type of DP is really needed in this game. Otherwise, we should all just fly Escorts. Who needs crusiers that have staying powers or science ships with healing abilities when you can just pew pew recklessly, blow up, respawn and be right back in a few seconds.
Well of course those who do not want a death penalty are the I want to win when I lose crowd.
Back in about the early 1980's when the total morons that managed to live through 1969 got old enough and wound up having some power (USA) in the education system and politics, things started to change for the worse. These touchy feely pottery class taking liberals basically looked at the way American life was and always hated it anyway because they knew not how to take part in it. They sucked at sports them selves and well every thing else other than the best new way to take a bong hit so they decided to ruin childhood sports and any other American institution they could get their resin stained hands on.
Suddenly you started to get a trophy when you lost on the fields of play as a child in America. They rewarded your loss with praise and parade. This is around the time American excellence died (well some of it), Unfortunately this terrible rewarding the loser additive started to bleed into many facets of life. Next thing you know if you don't do your job, oh well just try harder. Oh so your blind have one arm and want to be a professional tennis player, the government was forced to help you try.
Political correctness was born and with it all these people who were not taught what it means to lose. These people were taught that the world and the government owes them something. Every one they meet owes them something. Every company they will ever work for owes them something. Not to mention that if they lose or can't do something that it is ok because they tried. Well guess what, in the real world sometimes trying just does not cut it. DOING is what cuts it.
The people who scream from the roof tops for no death penalty have either had every thing handed to them in life or rome the streets wondering where their next meal ticket will come from because they certainly do not plan on providing it for them selves.
Comments
Yeah, wise guy.. but if.. what's it called again.. oh yes.. "TACTICS".. arent necessary to.. what's it called again.. oh yes.. "WIN" an encounter... then what is the value of the.. whats it called again... oh yes... "VICTORY"?
sheesh..
Let me explain it to you...the absence of a DP does not preclude a MATURE player from using TACTICS and savoring the VICTORY free of getting blown up and having to respawn. Get it..prolly not.
sheesh
No.. I get it.. I play still.. and I use tactics and try not to get blown up.. that's not what I'm saying... What i am saying is.. there is really no risk involved... You KNOW you are going to beat an encounter going in.. with no possibility of losing anything more than perhaps a miniscule amount of time... If you dont die at all.. or if you die 5 times... the difference is what??? 1.3 minutes? And the reward is the same..
And with the DP what are you going to do...?
Play the mission over till you get it right only thing is you will be shorter on credits and may have to replace consoles or weapons...no thanks... the result is the same..you always win the mission no matter how long it takes. DP is nothing but a time sink...spending time to recup the progress you just made whether it be recovering credits you had to spend on crew replacements or lost consoles to gaining back the exp you you lost because some a**hat got the team wiped. Been there done that...don't need it here.
agree !!!!
Well.. with the current system.. you can expect alot of as*hat Admirals out there who never needed to care whether or not their tactics were effective.. bank on that.. And you just may find them in your group... Oh yeah... it DOESNT MATTER if the group wipes... nice game...
Lets look at Eve online as a example. Eve gives you an elaborate death experience that's "great" if your on the killing side. Unfortunately, getting your current mission terminated, weeks of work destroyed in lost income, lost ship, lost components and implants, being killed a second time as your pod is destroyed, and then having people laugh and say "grow up" as they wait at a chokepoint with their gang for another victim, is not fun gameplay for most people. That's why in Eve most people stay hiding in their space stations, and instead of delight, the game has a feeling of paranoia.
I think the STO game designers made the right choice here.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Dionaea
Quit the game and stab your self in the eye with a skill saw, Let people have fun. you wanna kill pvp do this...
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Dionaea
Well you kow what..those are easily identified and put on ignore...done deal. And group wipes happen DP or no DP...but what doesn't happen is stupid time sinks or other such meaningless TRIBBLE.
So now you have resorted to insults. That's really mature. That sure raises the level of the discussion.
NEVER!!
go back to wow/eve if you miss having a DP!
Wow, what a resounding argument. You must have been on a debate team or something.
Excellent point Alex, PVP without a death penalty is a god mode grind without enjoyment. A moderate penalty and reward system needs to be implemented, along with open zone pvp.
whatcho got against us texans!??!:eek:
seriously though no artificial death penalty is the way to go, if your doing suicide runs cause it's faster you gaming the play rather than playing the game, you deserve to be bored in that case.
Here is the problem / situation as I see it.
Most of the people posting on the forums are not 12 year old kamikaze gamers. Most of the people posting on the forums whether the desire the DP or not...simply are not those types of players.
Whether you like the death penalty, or not, you have to admit there are unskilled players out there that simply fly around, shoot everything, and if they die...oh well, it was fun. I have personally watched a ship fly into like 40 others ships, and blow up over and over again....the guy eventually fly near me and drew them all to me as well.
I am sure there are just as many people who do not want the dealth penalty that do, who use tactics and situational responses to stay alive as best they can.
The issue I have is this...without the death penalty, how do we weed out the 'yahoos' in the game who just fly around, blow up, and still manage to accomplish everything. I would hate to thing that I went into a mission for example, and had some high end gear go to the 12 year old player who just flew around and got killed without contributing anything.
Also, without any sort of reward or punishment for not dying, what is the point of having different ship classes. In fact, Cryptic goes so far as to call the different ships, tanks, etc. What would be the point if there was no DP...everyone would only want the most DPS applying ship there was.
Finally, the economy needs some sort of way to limit it's spending and collecting. Right now, it is really easy to make credits. Without a monetary penalty for example, the economy with be astronomical. All ready on the exchange, some purple items are in the millions. I do not want to try and figure out if I should buy the item that is 3,544,454,444,444 dollars or not....come on.
Just my 2 cents.
I couldn't agree more. I made the comparison in another thread that a game of this kind with no death penalty is like playing Poker for no money. It's still Poker, but it really takes the life out of it.
Uh, NO and NO!
No to buying a new ship and No to decay.. sometimes when you are afk and a deep space encounter spawns on you, you are put right in the middle of the battle.. not fair.
Im a fan of decay if the economy and the penalty is reasonable.
Um,,, I have yet to come across an MMO, where you loose.
I could see repair costs, we need some sort of money sink or the economy is going to get real funky, but if I start loosing items and ships then your ruining the game.
Back in about the early 1980's when the total morons that managed to live through 1969 got old enough and wound up having some power (USA) in the education system and politics, things started to change for the worse. These touchy feely pottery class taking liberals basically looked at the way American life was and always hated it anyway because they knew not how to take part in it. They sucked at sports them selves and well every thing else other than the best new way to take a bong hit so they decided to ruin childhood sports and any other American institution they could get their resin stained hands on.
Suddenly you started to get a trophy when you lost on the fields of play as a child in America. They rewarded your loss with praise and parade. This is around the time American excellence died (well some of it), Unfortunately this terrible rewarding the loser additive started to bleed into many facets of life. Next thing you know if you don't do your job, oh well just try harder. Oh so your blind have one arm and want to be a professional tennis player, the government was forced to help you try.
Political correctness was born and with it all these people who were not taught what it means to lose. These people were taught that the world and the government owes them something. Every one they meet owes them something. Every company they will ever work for owes them something. Not to mention that if they lose or can't do something that it is ok because they tried. Well guess what, in the real world sometimes trying just does not cut it. DOING is what cuts it.
The people who scream from the roof tops for no death penalty have either had every thing handed to them in life or rome the streets wondering where their next meal ticket will come from because they certainly do not plan on providing it for them selves.
They will never win at anything and never have.