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***What Kind of Death Penalty Do You Want?***

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Please don't add a death penalty. If you do please don't make it a time sink. That was the main reason I left CoH.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Don't call it a death penalty. Call it a survival incentive.

    Right now the game encourages you to run suicide attacks. Fly in, do damage, die, rinse repeat. There is really no gameplay reason why you should assiduously avoid dying.

    These stupid replies suggesting you punish yourself are really annoying too. If someone suggested we abolish all law enforcement and just suggest that people who break the law volunteer to punish themselves, would you be ok with that too? My point with that analogy is that the purpose of a death penalty is not to punish but to disincentivize careless or suicidal tactics, in the same way that the primary purpose of penalties for lawbreaking are for disincentivizing illegal behavior.

    It's not that we want to be punished for dying, it's that we want not to be punished for avoiding dying. Right now we're penalyzed for trying to stay alive. I've been in a number of situations where a fight went south and I worked hard to escape and survive, only to realize after the fact that I would have been better off just dying as I'd have saved myself the time of making the escape and repairing and regenning shields. I can enjoy the personal accomplishment of having survived, I just wish the game agreed with me that it was an actual accomplishment instead of a waste of time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lethargic wrote:
    Ah, death penalties. I remember them all so well...

    The loss of hours worth of xp.
    The de-leveling and unable to wear your gear because you're no longer the appropriate level.
    The loss of random equipement.
    15 minute debuffs.
    Massive repair costs.
    Combination of all of the above.

    Yeah, no thanks. I'll pass. I've suffered through all of the various DPs that have been thrown at me, and it's refreshing to not get horrifically hammered due to death. The brief wait time , minor energy debuff and mob reset is sufficient for me. No rage or frustration makes for a relax evening of fun.

    If people want a harsher DP, why not just self-inflict? Come, step up. You're asking for a DP, set by example and start self inflicting.

    Self inflicting isn't harsh enough, I think the penalty should be on a pet/family member. That way if you die your dog gets hurt, that should guarantee you trying not die.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Arkalius80 wrote:
    Don't call it a death penalty. Call it a survival incentive.

    Right now the game encourages you to run suicide attacks. Fly in, do damage, die, rinse repeat. There is really no gameplay reason why you should assiduously avoid dying.

    These stupid replies suggesting you punish yourself are really annoying too. Right now we're penalyzed for trying to stay alive. I've been in a number of situations where a fight went south and I worked hard to escape and survive, only to realize after the fact that I would have been better off just dying as I'd have saved myself the time of making the escape and repairing and regenning shields. I can enjoy the personal accomplishment of having survived, I just wish the game agreed with me that it was an actual accomplishment instead of a waste of time.

    So because you need the game to do it for you, EVERYONE needs punishment forced on them?

    So stupid that you have the tools to implement your DP and no one is stopping you? That's dumb, but hoisting the annoyance on the rest of us isn't...right.

    It's your own fault you aren't motivated to stay alive. I sure am, and I don't need time wasting or expenses to drive home the point.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ZenBrillig wrote:
    If you say you don't want a death penalty - aren't you essentially asking for a game you cannot lose?

    Where's the fun in that? If you cannot lose, who cares if you win?

    First off, in an MMO, there is no "winning" or "losing," so this train of thought is pointless.

    Also, look at it this way. If you institute a death penalty, even a mild one, Cryptic would have to take out the provisions they added to Deep Space Encounters (a bunch of high-tier ships spawn-camping the players, killing them all within seconds). This would then allow people to instance-jump looking for a quick way to finish DSE quests. This would then lead to cries on the forum of "EXPLOIT!!!!" and "CHEATING ADMIRALS!!!!!!" This would continue forever until Cryptic decided to re-implement the spawn-camping NPC's. This would lead to more crying on the forums, which would lead to either an extreme nerfing of the death penalty, making it pointless, or removing it altogether. Since I'm anti-forum-whine, I say leave it out.

    But I second the request to make the PvE combat more difficult.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    First off, in an MMO, there is no "winning" or "losing," so this train of thought is pointless.

    Sorry, but is this your first MMO?

    Winning and losing is a part of everything in a game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Arkalius80 wrote:
    Don't call it a death penalty. Call it a survival incentive.

    Right now the game encourages you to run suicide attacks. Fly in, do damage, die, rinse repeat. There is really no gameplay reason why you should assiduously avoid dying.

    Well, then, I'd have to say the groups you get put into just suck, as I've been in plenty of PUGs and a lot of groups from my Fleet, and we always try to survive. Sure, we aren't successful all of the time, but just because you get crappy groups doesn't mean I should be penalized for trying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    He is speaking for myself, and many others. Most of you anti-death penalty people probably wont be playing this game for more than a few months, so why do you care anyway?

    PS. no where in the OPs post did he say he was speaking for anyone else besides himself.

    And who are those "many others"? Dumbest claim without evidence ever.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Celice wrote:
    Sorry, but is this your first MMO?

    Winning and losing is a part of everything in a game.

    No, this is not my first MMO, and there is no "winning the game" in an MMO. If you think there is, this must be your first MMO.

    After you complete the final mission, the game isn't "over." There isn't a "new game plus" feature where you start from the beginning. There's still plenty to do. Even if you have done everything, there's most likely content still to come.

    How can you win a game that changes every time you think you finish it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DieScream wrote: »
    So because you need the game to do it for you, EVERYONE needs punishment forced on them?

    So stupid that you have the tools to implement your DP and no one is stopping you? That's dumb, but hoisting the annoyance on the rest of us isn't...right.

    It's your own fault you aren't motivated to stay alive. I sure am, and I don't need time wasting or expenses to drive home the point.

    I modified my post after you quoted it so I'll reiterate the modifications here. Suggesting we have no mandatory DP and telling people to punish themselves for dying is like suggesting we have no mandatory penalties for committing crimes and suggesting people punish themselves for crimes.

    Either you enjoy using suicidal tactics in this game, or you don't mind that when you avoid death, the game is telling you you're doing it wrong. I don't like this game telling me that my personal accomplishments (avoiiding dying) are actually not the right way to play and I should be letting myself die whenever things go badly because it's more efficient.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree, there has to some kind of penalty. You need a deterrent from just rushing in, doing damage, and simply respawning if you die.

    Where's the incentive to stay alive?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Arkalius80 wrote:
    I modified my post after you quoted it so I'll reiterate the modifications here. Suggesting we have no mandatory DP and telling people to punish themselves for dying is like suggesting we have no mandatory penalties for committing crimes and suggesting people punish themselves for crimes.

    Either you enjoy using suicidal tactics in this game, or you don't mind that when you avoid death, the game is telling you you're doing it wrong. I don't like this game telling me that my personal accomplishments (avoiiding dying) are actually not the right way to play and I should be letting myself die whenever things go badly because it's more efficient.

    Are you really comparing dying in a game to real-life criminal activity?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lethargic wrote:
    The loss of hours worth of xp.
    The de-leveling and unable to wear your gear because you're no longer the appropriate level.
    The loss of random equipement.
    15 minute debuffs.
    Massive repair costs.

    No one is asking for any of these things, but thanks for exaggerating. Simply having ship crew compliment permanently die and have to be replaced would suffice.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Arkalius80 wrote:
    I modified my post after you quoted it so I'll reiterate the modifications here. Suggesting we have no mandatory DP and telling people to punish themselves for dying is like suggesting we have no mandatory penalties for committing crimes and suggesting people punish themselves for crimes.

    Well if you are drawing real world examples, not too many people continue on after death.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well, then, I'd have to say the groups you get put into just suck, as I've been in plenty of PUGs and a lot of groups from my Fleet, and we always try to survive. Sure, we aren't successful all of the time, but just because you get crappy groups doesn't mean I should be penalized for trying.

    I do try to survive and I am good at it. I never said I didn't try. The problem is that I feel like the game is telling me I'm playing wrong by trying to survive and its annoying. It would be more effective just to die and respawn.

    Avoiding death in tough situations requires a little bit of skill and cooperation in a group, and taking on big encounters should not be easily accomplished by repeated suicide assaults. I want to feel like the game rewards me for skillful play, instead of elevating the unskilled suicide attackers as or more quickly than those of us who actually try to survive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Qoojo wrote:
    Well if you are drawing real world examples, not too many people continue on after death.

    Exactly. Only catholics burn in hell after death XD
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Celice wrote:
    Winning and losing is a part of everything in a game.
    How do you "win" at an MMO? Get more gil/gold/credits than anyone else? Reach the level cap? Play through all the content? Be at the top in the PvP leaderboards?

    I'm being serious here: How is "winning" and "loosing" defined for everyone in an MMO?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Are you really comparing dying in a game to real-life criminal activity?

    No. I'm trying to point out that the purpose of a death penalty is not to punish those that die, but to disincentivize being careless with your in-game life, in the same way that the purpose of penalties for crimes is not so much punishment as it is to disincentivize illegal behavior.

    It's not that I want to be punished for dying, it's that I want to feel like the game isn't rewarding suicide tactics as much as or more than tactics that improve survivability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    V-Mink wrote:
    How do you "win" at an MMO? Get more gil/gold/credits than anyone else? Reach the level cap? Play through all the content? Be at the top in the PvP leaderboards?

    I'm being serious here: How is "winning" and "loosing" defined for everyone in an MMO?

    Ehm... he said "in a game", not an MMO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Please keep the game fun and engaging by not establishing arbitrary death penalties.

    The game doesn't need them. It already has enough penalties built in.

    Thanks. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think it's been said many times. The person with the most tribbles wins.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The penalty for the suicide tactic is that it takes time. The penalty for the death penalty is it takes time.


    Wait... I see a common theme here.



    It is actually quicker to go through missions with some thought and tactics to prevent doing the death respawn dance, and in the end saving time. The only time where this may not be the case is in Fleet Actions / Deep space encounters, which I think most people would agree, need to be rebalanced anyway regardless of death penalty or not.


    Basically your incentive not to die is to save time and progress quicker. This is the same as if there was a harsher death penalty, just maybe not as extreme.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    V-Mink wrote:
    How do you "win" at an MMO? Get more gil/gold/credits than anyone else? Reach the level cap? Play through all the content? Be at the top in the PvP leaderboards?

    I'm being serious here: How is "winning" and "loosing" defined for everyone in an MMO?

    There is no final victory in an MMO like in other games, this is true, but an MMO, like other games, can be viewed as a series of smaller games or challenges that can be won or lost. Each skirmish with an enemy squad is it's own battle, and you can win or lose that battle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Pretty much all these DP threads go the same way. "WE NEED DP"... "NO WE DON'T" I am not sure anything about this subject ever gets accomplished.

    Is there an issue where escorts suicide into combat, get kills and dps and rinse and repeat? Yes, is that cause there is no DP? Probably. But look at what those players are really doing. Are they working with the spirit of the game? More than likely not. Are they playing the game in their way? Most likely yes. Is this gonna change with a DP, nope.

    I personally don't want a DP because the penalty should and is death itself. Does that penalty matter to some...? No.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Arkalius80 wrote:
    I modified my post after you quoted it so I'll reiterate the modifications here. Suggesting we have no mandatory DP and telling people to punish themselves for dying is like suggesting we have no mandatory penalties for committing crimes and suggesting people punish themselves for crimes.

    Either you enjoy using suicidal tactics in this game, or you don't mind that when you avoid death, the game is telling you you're doing it wrong. I don't like this game telling me that my personal accomplishments (avoiiding dying) are actually not the right way to play and I should be letting myself die whenever things go badly because it's more efficient.

    Please cite an example where it was more efficient to die in a PVE mission than just complete the battle. I haven't died since the first tier. Abilities recover over time to be used again. Energy recovers after impulse. When is this infamous strategy that's supposedly ruining the game ever actually used?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I get ****ed off when I die. Are you saying it doesn't bother you? I know I can just respawn and come back, but I still do my damnest to survive. Frankly, if people are zerging with no regard to dying because its more efficient, then the PEBKAC.

    That's an issue with the player looking for the easy route, I hate even waiting the darn 15 seconds to respawn.

    Currently, there are too many ways to die through no fault of your own for a DP anyway.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Alex1939 wrote: »
    Enjoy the game, but it's really missing some type of penalty.

    It really reduces the thrill knowing my ship can blow up and I respawn a few kilometers away. Or my entire away team goes down, and we all just jump back up.

    I would've really preferred a system where if the party wipes out, you have to restart the episode.

    At least add repair costs, or bridge officer death, something!

    There definitely needs to be some kind of death penalty!! Please. :D

    I don't mean to be rude, not every one likes pain. So stop trying to create pain for people and slap your self if you die or something like that, don't inflict it on others!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Alex1939 wrote: »
    Enjoy the game, but it's really missing some type of penalty.

    It really reduces the thrill knowing my ship can blow up and I respawn a few kilometers away. Or my entire away team goes down, and we all just jump back up.

    I would've really preferred a system where if the party wipes out, you have to restart the episode.

    At least add repair costs, or bridge officer death, something!

    There definitely needs to be some kind of death penalty!! Please. :D

    hah. another death penalty request. Cryptic has delivered a game that appeals to the bottom-feeders, lowest common denominator of mmorpg gaming; those that feel entitled to always be in a win situation and rewarded for losing.

    I often come across these players in game since they detract from your game-play daily in missions by 'suicide leveling' to gain experience in the shortest period of time. Not only does it add to the diminishment of immersion and game-play interest for others, but this type of game-play is supported by Cryptic so that STO is really garnered with the title of being the shallowest, most rudimentary third-person shooter of our time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Thail.DL wrote: »
    It is actually quicker to go through missions with some thought and tactics to prevent doing the death respawn dance, and in the end saving time.

    I disagree. If you end up in a situation where things are going badly and you must decide to attempt to escape, repair, and regen, or just die and respawn, dying and respawning tends to be faster, or at least equal.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Arkalius80 wrote:
    I disagree. If you end up in a situation where things are going badly and you must decide to attempt to escape, repair, and regen, or just die and respawn, dying and respawning tends to be faster, or at least equal.

    When was the last PVE instance where things "went badly" for you? Maybe it's because I'm in a science ship, but this hasn't happened to me since the first tier and I'm level 26 now.

    This game needs challenge. A death penalty would not make these fights any more challenging, especially since I never die.

    Once things are challenging, or at least potentially challenging with a difficulty slider, then we can worry about some suicide tactic that has no practical benefit currently.
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