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Cryptic Considering a More 'Meaningful' Death Penalty for Star Trek Online?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Death in Star Trek Online seems to be a disappointing experience for its fans, lacking narrative oomph and encouraging unreasonably risky behavior. The game's executive producer says the studio is listening and considering a change.

"We are looking into finding a meaningful way to give players a deeper sense of loss when something bad happens," Cryptic's Craig Zinkievich told IncGamers. "But we want it to feel right, rather than just like an arbitrary penalty."

Zinkievich said Cryptic's philosophy has been that death penalties in the genre are typically just a time penalty, and they prevent players from getting back into their game and enjoying it.

"I get that people want to feel a sense of risk when they're fighting in battles, but if the only emotion you feel when you're playing a game is fear that you're going to lose some time due to an arbitrary gameplay mechanic, we're probably not doing something right, " he said to IncGamers.

He's got a point. And from the perspective of making a product, someone's bought the game, you don't want to discourage its use. But there can't be risk without consequences. So it's a vexing design issue.

I suggest that Cryptic do far worse than kill you, admiral. It hurts you. And it wishes to go on ... hurting you ... leaving you marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet. Buried alive. Buried aliiiiiiiiiiive ...

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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    durability on gear would be the easiest way.
    25% durability loss on death and after you blow up for the 3rd time you better go visit a spacedock or after your next death your weapons and shields wont be working anymore.

    what also would be nice is a deserter debuff for leaving Space PvP ... cant join pvp for 60min after you left prematurely
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ocharni wrote: »
    durability on gear would be the easiest way.
    25% durability loss on death and after you blow up for the 3rd time you better go visit a spacedock or after your next death your weapons and shields wont be working anymore.

    what also would be nice is a deserter debuff for leaving Space PvP ... cant join pvp for 60min after you left prematurely

    lol I got this on my news feed, i just skimmed over it, because I was responding to PM I still need to read it lol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As part of the DP, I hope that the superfast crew regeneration is looked at. There's no need to use any of the items or abilities that affect crew numbers/durability right now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    dhaise wrote: »
    As part of the DP, I hope that the superfast crew regeneration is looked at. There's no need to use any of the items or abilities that affect crew numbers/durability right now.

    well you know in start base sierra what ever there is a vendor that sales crew. mite give an idea on whats to come.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It would be nice to see as the hull takes damage,so does the weapons and other ship bound items.I could see a durability loss to the point of a ruined weapon or ship bound item as a result of damage.I believe this would gives players incentive and a challenge.I also see that a system of receiving loot from a destroyed ship would be in order and the destroyed ship losing that item.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Speak for yourself. Not having to deal with "Death penalties" is nice for a change. It gets old for alot of players. The voices who want death penalties are not the only voices to be heard in this game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Wraiven wrote: »
    Speak for yourself. Not having to deal with "Death penalties" is nice for a change. It gets old for alot of players. The voices who want death penalties are not the only voices to be heard in this game.

    hey don't shoot the messenger, this is just off my news feed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Not this again, please.

    In this game, you can die so many ways that is not your fault, a "death penalty" is just going to annoy most people.

    But you can implement your own Death Penalty: every time your character dies, throw all his gear in the replicator. Enjoy!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Not this again, please.

    In this game, you can die so many ways that is not your fault, a "death penalty" is just going to annoy most people.

    But you can implement your own Death Penalty: every time your character dies, throw all his gear in the replicator. Enjoy!

    hey don't shoot the messenger, this is just off my news feed. I didn't write this. it was from an interview, check the source.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What if they made the death penalty toggle-able, and gave you a bonus for having it on? Like 10% extra skillpoints or something? (just as an example)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What if they made the death penalty toggle-able, and gave you a bonus for having it on? Like 10% extra skillpoints or something? (just as an example)

    Completely acceptable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The one drawback to a death penalty are those darn Romulan spawncampers in the Deep Space Encounters. As it is now, when you warp into one that's still waiting to reset you end up getting ganked by 4 escorts and 2 battleships without time to clear the dialogue before your crew is sucking vacuum, or the poor sucker who entered the encounter 10 seconds before you is. If they implement a death penalty I hope they lay off the spawn TRIBBLE at least long enough for us to clear the dialogue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The only penality I want to see in this game from dying is a debuff that prevents you from dropping loot of any kind. NOw if decent loot is dropable only that should make them more careful fighting if people want to develop their ships/captains or what not.

    A really risky maneuver such as a suicide type maneuver should maybe result in your BO made redunant for a fixed period of time. but no real loss of BO, the inactivity of a good BO may be enough to cause people to think twice about something risky,

    Experience penality causes a lot of frustration, a montary penality will only encounrage more credit farmers/spammers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why don't they just kill one of your BOs in the battle? It's not like they can't be replaced. It would force you to train up the new BO which would act like a death penalty if you are adding a new crew member in the heat of battle. Who wouldn't suffer by losing their chief engineer, tactical or science officer in a fight? I think it brings it close to home by doing it this way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Death Penalties are an anachronism that have no place in modern mmo's outside of pvp heavy games.. and STO is not a pvp game, its a PVE game WITH pvp, which isnt the same thing at all.

    Respawn timer is fine, if anyone wants anything more harsh i suggest they play EVE as it is more suited to thier tastes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm guessing I'm not the only one who read the last paragraph of the article in Khan's voice and with a smile?

    I don't really PvP, and I've been playing STO since CB and only have 'died' once (maybe twice) in space and once on ground since the game went live. So, I'm kind of meh when it comes to a death penalty. Not really for it, not really against it.

    I've played Eve for the last 3 years, so anything less than its DP would be fine by me lol (from my personal point of view; I'm *not* saying I want a harsh death penalty). I would hope Cryptic wouldn't go to that extreme (and don't really think they ever will), but I personally wouldn't be upset if they implemented a death penalty of any sort.

    Still, I do have to say I did like how the article ended with that last paragraph. Almost made me put WoK in. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I still think rewards for not dying is the way to go.

    Also, maybe the Accolade system, once implemented, will have perks and bragging rights for not dying in X number of missions, etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    NeoWolf wrote: »
    Death Penalties are an anachronism that have no place in modern mmo's outside of pvp heavy games.. and STO is not a pvp game, its a PVE game WITH pvp, which isnt the same thing at all.

    Respawn timer is fine, if anyone wants anything more harsh i suggest they play EVE as it is more suited to thier tastes.

    actually, its the other way around. in PvP heavy games, Death Penalty is a big NONO whereas PvE games should have one...

    and if you wanna see a real death penalty go play ultima online, skill loss at death FTW
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There should be a DP, I like the idea of either durability loss on items or losing a BO but at the very least there should be some kind of loss to make you look after your ship and crew more and yes I know some deaths are not your fault but thats life.

    Maybe as someone suggested a toggle if you want DP on or off but you get more skill points etc if you have it on. Seems fair then.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ocharni wrote: »
    durability on gear would be the easiest way.
    25% durability loss on death and after you blow up for the 3rd time you better go visit a spacedock or after your next death your weapons and shields wont be working anymore.

    what also would be nice is a deserter debuff for leaving Space PvP ... cant join pvp for 60min after you left prematurely

    no you should get a peg leg when you die.. a new peg part each death
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    NeoWolf wrote: »
    Death Penalties are an anachronism that have no place in modern mmo's outside of pvp heavy games.. and STO is not a pvp game, its a PVE game WITH pvp, which isnt the same thing at all.
    Respawn timer is fine, if anyone wants anything more harsh i suggest they play EVE as it is more suited to thier tastes.

    Well said.

    I just remembered a TNG episode where Picard is on the holodeck playing a Private Detective and a thug rushes in and pulls a gun on him and Picard ducks and yells:

    "Computer freeze program! This is not what I wanted at all! I came here to RELAX, not dodge bullets! More AMBIENCE and LESS SUBSTANCE!"

    I play STO to relax too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ocharni wrote: »
    actually, its the other way around. in PvP heavy games, Death Penalty is a big NONO whereas PvE games should have one...

    and if you wanna see a real death penalty go play ultima online, skill loss at death FTW

    I disagree, and ive played Ultima.. there arent many mmo's I havent played, and no part of its death penalty provided any sense of fun or enjoyment (frankly the offline Ultimas were far far better), so where is the benefit and point of having it? none.. none at all.

    We pay to play these games to enjoy ourselves, not to have our time and effort damaged by some ludicrously overdone death penalties.

    like I said, death penalties are an anachronism, they have no real place in modern mmo's and the genre does just fine without them.

    If you want meaningful death..head to character select after dying and hit delete.. that way you can have your meaningful deaths and it wont impact anyone else's enjoyment ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ocharni wrote: »
    durability on gear would be the easiest way.
    25% durability loss on death and after you blow up for the 3rd time you better go visit a spacedock or after your next death your weapons and shields wont be working anymore.

    what also would be nice is a deserter debuff for leaving Space PvP ... cant join pvp for 60min after you left prematurely

    Micro fracture !!!!!!

    " Captain:
    Extended and repeating repairs on some hull areas have resulted in irreversible structural damage at the Composite Subatomic level within the hull alloys....

    Even in the best case scenario our engineering team can only re-establish our structural integrity up to 78 - 81%...

    Only a complete re-fit at our starbase orbital shipyards can repair the problematic areas back to 100%

    Shall we set a course?"

    cost: XYZ credits
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kaellorien wrote:
    Micro fracture !!!!!!

    " Captain:
    Extended and repeating repairs on some hull areas have resulted in irreversible structural damage at the Composite Subatomic level within the hull alloys....

    Even in the best case scenario our engineering team can only re-establish our structural integrity up to 78 - 81%...

    Only a complete re-fit at our starbase orbital shipyards can repair the problematic areas back to 100%

    Shall we set a course?"

    cost: XYZ credits

    And when you die all time due to crazy spawns in patrol missions you pass your playing time and game money in trips between the starbase and the mission ? Before thinking about death penalties some other bugs must first be corrected.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I did like the suggestion someone had once, BTW, of every five to ten deaths or so just getting a shipboard mission where you and your engineers have to do repairs and put out fires to get your ship mobile again.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kaellorien wrote:
    Micro fracture !!!!!!

    " Captain:
    Extended and repeating repairs on some hull areas have resulted in irreversible structural damage at the Composite Subatomic level within the hull alloys....
    Even in the best case scenario our engineering team can only re-establish our structural integrity up to 78 - 81%...
    Only a complete re-fit at our starbase orbital shipyards can repair the problematic areas back to 100%
    Shall we set a course?"
    cost: XYZ credits

    Captain: "Ensign, please relieve Mr LaForge from duty, he is clearly delusional. Mr Worf, please escort Mr LaForge to sickbay."

    Ensign: "Structural integrity is 100%, Sir!"

    Captain: "Well, done Wesley."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    NeoWolf wrote: »
    I disagree, and ive played Ultima.. there arent many mmo's I havent played, and no part of its death penalty provided any sense of fun or enjoyment (frankly the offline Ultimas were far far better), so where is the benefit and point of having it? none.. none at all.

    We pay to play these games to enjoy ourselves, not to have our time and effort damaged by some ludicrously overdone death penalties.

    like I said, death penalties are an anachronism, they have no real place in modern mmo's and the genre does just fine without them.

    If you want meaningful death..head to character select after dying and hit delete.. that way you can have your meaningful deaths and it wont impact anyone else's enjoyment ;)

    So you just wanna impulse in, die, repeat....? No meaning of trying harder, getting better... learn anything? Just a mindless mind-numbingly boring and repetitive grind with no risk at all? No point of having friends help you out? No real meaning of teamwork...

    Yea that sounds fun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I am happy with the current penalty. I do not need any additional arbitrary punishment to make my loss even more painful. Having a more severe dp in place would not change how I play as I already do the best I can (and almost never die as it is - so even the current penalty almost never applies).

    Considering that the game was developed with the majority of the content soloable I do not see how adding in additional punishments would make playing this video game more fun and "meaningful" for me in that context.

    If the penalty only applied while grouping (which some believe necessary to stop other people from not playing "correctly" in their minds) it would make such interactions less desireable.. As some people would not want to group knowing there was an additional penalty for playing with others rather than alone.

    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Securion wrote: »
    So you just wanna impulse in, die, repeat....? No meaning of trying harder, getting better... learn anything? Just a mindless mind-numbingly boring and repetitive grind with no risk at all? No point of having friends help you out? No real meaning of teamwork...

    Yea that sounds fun.

    I have yet to see anyone do this in all of Closed Beta, Open Beta, till now. I have never played that way.. My friends do not play that way.. And nobody in the forced mission PuGs I have ever seen have played that way.

    Not everyone needs the threat of punishment do do their best.. Some can do it on their own. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Asakara wrote:
    I have yet to see anyone do this in all of Closed Beta, Open Beta, till now. I have never played that way.. My friends do not play that way.. And nobody in the forced mission PuGs I have ever seen have played that way.

    Not everyone needs the threat of punishment do do their best.. Some can do it on their own. :)

    You dont understand do you?
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