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Open letter to Crypic

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
First off; thank you for bringing this huge intellectual property to the MMO Verse. As a life long Star Trek fan I finally get to enjoy flying about in my own space ship and get a taste of life in the 24th century. I am sure that you guys must be getting a lot of flack as a developer facing the impossible task of meeting the individual expectations of such a large fan-base.

I understand that my 14$ doesn't really warrant a response to my concerns but I do hope that someone will take the time to address a couple concerns that I have. Please accept the following observations as respectful criticisms.. I don't want to take away from the hard work of those that put in the time to develop the game.

Content and Leveling:

Currently the game wears like a Single Player RPG with about 50 hours of life too it. Leveling up to max level is far to quick and once you get to max level there isn't anything to do with exception to PvP which I'm sure you can appreciate gets old quick.

- Is there a plan or vision to address this?

Currently the game doesn't seem to have any social aspect to it. While fleets and social groups form there isn't any requirement for individuals to complete missions as a group. Any group of 5 randomly and automatically associated people can accomplish a task and thus there is no need to write down the name of good DPS, or to take note of "boy that guy could heal". Instead groups are made up of single serving accomplices.

- Will there be need to associate with talented personalities to accomplish goals or will goals be accomplished as they are now - with just any 4 other folk that can fog up a mirror.

From the forums, chat, and other mediums it is apparent that after the free 30-days is up many box sales will not yield recurring subscriptions. I'm sure the business plan accounted for some of this however if the exodus is as large as many sources speculate how will Cryptic react?

- To help prevent attrition can you give us a glimpse of what is planned for the 45-day patch? What do you hope to accomplish for the game 3-months from now, how about 6 month and 1 year milestones?

Is Cryptic currently working on any other MMO titles? Can we expect resources to be pulled from Star Trek Online development as was the case with Champions?

I'm sure I don't have to tell you that Star Trek is a huge intellectual property and for a good reason; we the fans love it. Many players I've run into are 1st time MMO players here because of the IP alone. Sadly I'm finding many of them disappointed with the game play and scared away by the elite that have reached max level within 3-days of release.

Star Trek is a masterpiece of an intellectual property; as a fan I beg you to please treat the IP with the respect it deserves and resolve to produce a masterpiece of a game. I pray that this isn't just a board room financial ploy with a cookie cutter game engine to garner huge initial sales and then leave it to fade into a small niche game.

Thank you for your time.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MjrGaelic wrote: »
    First off; thank you for bringing this huge intellectual property to the MMO Verse. As a life long Star Trek fan I finally get to enjoy flying about in my own space ship and get a taste of life in the 24th century. I am sure that you guys must be getting a lot of flack as a developer facing the impossible task of meeting the individual expectations of such a large fan-base.

    I understand that my 14$ doesn't really warrant a response to my concerns but I do hope that someone will take the time to address a couple concerns that I have. Please accept the following observations as respectful criticisms.. I don't want to take away from the hard work of those that put in the time to develop the game.

    Content and Leveling:

    Currently the game wears like a Single Player RPG with about 50 hours of life too it. Leveling up to max level is far to quick and once you get to max level there isn't anything to do with exception to PvP which I'm sure you can appreciate gets old quick.

    - Is there a plan or vision to address this?

    Endgame content is coming, some as early as next week.

    Currently the game doesn't seem to have any social aspect to it. While fleets and social groups form there isn't any requirement for individuals to complete missions as a group. Any group of 5 randomly and automatically associated people can accomplish a task and thus there is no need to write down the name of good DPS, or to take note of "boy that guy could heal". Instead groups are made up of single serving accomplices.

    - Will there be need to associate with talented personalities to accomplish goals or will goals be accomplished as they are now - with just any 4 other folk that can fog up a mirror.

    Endgame raid-i-sodes will require 5 players, and some are rumored to require 20 or more.

    From the forums, chat, and other mediums it is apparent that after the free 30-days is up many box sales will not yield recurring subscriptions. I'm sure the business plan accounted for some of this however if the exodus is as large as many sources speculate how will Cryptic react?

    Please cite sources to back up the claim of a "mass exodus." Trolls on the forums don't count.

    - To help prevent attrition can you give us a glimpse of what is planned for the 45-day patch? What do you hope to accomplish for the game 3-months from now, how about 6 month and 1 year milestones?

    Cryptic won't answer this, as they won't want to be pigeon-holed by "promises." The closest you'll get is the "what's coming for STO" post on the main site.

    Is Cryptic currently working on any other MMO titles? Can we expect resources to be pulled from Star Trek Online development as was the case with Champions?

    Cryptic is working on another, as-yet-untitled MMO, but they won't be culling the dev team from STO, just as STO didn't cull the dev team from CO.

    I'm sure I don't have to tell you that Star Trek is a huge intellectual property and for a good reason; we the fans love it. Many players I've run into are 1st time MMO players here because of the IP alone. Sadly I'm finding many of them disappointed with the game play and scared away by the elite that have reached max level within 3-days of release.

    Star Trek is a masterpiece of an intellectual property; as a fan I beg you to please treat the IP with the respect it deserves and resolve to produce a masterpiece of a game. I pray that this isn't just a board room financial ploy with a cookie cutter game engine to garner huge initial sales and then leave it to fade into a small niche game.

    Thank you for your time.

    I did the best I could.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Thanks for taking the time Jedi.

    The mass exodus was from these forms as well as chat I've had in game with the 2 different fleets I'm in, I expect that these associations represent a cross section of the games subscriber base (not just members of the fleets but the average game subscriber). That combined with poor online reviews (do I really need to point them out?) give me an overall sense that a mass exodus is pending. Granted this is my opinion and I hope that the respectful manner in which I'm trying to speak doesn't qualify me as a Troll ..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MjrGaelic wrote: »
    Thanks for taking the time Jedi.

    The mass exodus was from these forms as well as chat I've had in game with the 2 different fleets I'm in, I expect that these associations represent a cross section of the games subscriber base (not just members of the fleets but the average game subscriber). That combined with poor online reviews (do I really need to point them out?) give me an overall sense that a mass exodus is pending. Granted this is my opinion and I hope that the respectful manner in which I'm trying to speak doesn't qualify me as a Troll ..

    There are more good reviews than a lot of people are crediting. If you go on the main page, mouse over "The Game" and click Reviews, you'll see a list of all of the game reviews done to this point on STO. 41 reviews, with an average of 72%. Not bad if you ask me.

    You are right, that a lot of people will leave. However, the number of people coming in to STO in the first place blew expectations out of the water, so I'd guess that, at worst, they'd end up with around the number of subs they anticipated after the free month.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MjrGaelic wrote: »
    First off; thank you for bringing this huge intellectual property to the MMO Verse.

    ...snip...

    Thank you for your time.

    Tell me you did not misspell the name of the corporation of the person you sent the letter to. Bad business etiquette.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Battleunit wrote: »
    Tell me you did not misspell the name of the corporation of the person you sent the letter to. Bad business etiquette.

    Whoops!

    Still a good post.

    :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Battleunit wrote: »
    Tell me you did not misspell the name of the corporation of the person you sent the letter to. Bad business etiquette.

    Bleh - was a honest typo.. Besides, I'm not writing as a business person, I'm writing as a consumer. A consumer whose hooked on phonics is still in the mail.

    Fixed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MjrGaelic wrote: »
    Bleh - was a honest typo.. Besides, I'm not writing as a business person, I'm writing as a consumer. A consumer whose hooked on phonics is still in the mail.

    Fixed.

    LOL!

    You fixed the spelling yes, but I wonder, should the company name be ALL caps?

    I've never really known that. It might be a trademark or something like that.

    :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MjrGaelic wrote: »
    From the forums, chat, and other mediums it is apparent that after the free 30-days is up many box sales will not yield recurring subscriptions. I'm sure the business plan accounted for some of this however if the exodus is as large as many sources speculate how will Cryptic react?


    I can answer this one. Points finger to Champions Online. They'll just start offering free Buddy Keys or openly offer free weekends or a free trial to get people to return to 'populate' the server so that the Klingons will have more target practice.

    After all the paying customers will get bored and the server is a ghost ton so they need to bring people to keep the paying people happy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There are more good reviews than a lot of people are crediting. If you go on the main page, mouse over "The Game" and click Reviews, you'll see a list of all of the game reviews done to this point on STO. 41 reviews, with an average of 72%. Not bad if you ask me.

    You are right, that a lot of people will leave. However, the number of people coming in to STO in the first place blew expectations out of the water, so I'd guess that, at worst, they'd end up with around the number of subs they anticipated after the free month.

    That review page is not a very good use of measuring an avg score. The big sites with the major scores are at the bottom of the list. I've never heard 90% of the review sites on that list.

    It's easy to 'fluff' and 'buff' your avg score by including as many worthless review sites to increase the avg number.

    What cryptic should do is have a survey for every PAYING customer who plays this game (per paying account) provide a review/rating. That would make more sense to get accurate scores of people who PAID. Not review sites who have no vested interest because they got a FREE copy.

    People's review with their $ seems to make more sense.

    They could even have a second review pool for statistics purpose and have the FREE trial people provide their reviews. Break it down by Del taco reviewers. Guess Pass. Buddy Keys. Media/Press Freeloaders. Pre-order reviews (who never entered cd-retail key). Just statistical % if they dont want to disclose their actual subs base.

    From there you can decide for your self. And not some review site to tell you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MjrGaelic I think that is a well though out letter. It reflects my views. I have the same concerns about the game being finished. Also will be just get dropped in 6 months?

    Because what got me concern was the price drop in two weeks after that made me wander I paid $80.00 for the collectors edition and know it is $59.99. The only time that happens is when Atari knows they have a game that might lose people because it is getting bad press, or not the game they though it would be. Also it is blow market expectations. Many games have died the same way Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, to name a few they were great games. but they where not hitting the numbers and the price of the game fell fast.Also Buddy Keys, and For STO to drop the price two weeks later, brings a eye brow up. It says to me that Atari and maybe cryptic knows some thing we don't.

    I like this game a lot and I see what it can become. But hit the bad press and unfinished areas head on make it better. Then go get the costumers back STO will make it. But if they drop it in 6 months to a year, and just fix bugs, not continue the DEV for it and let it die. This will make me very sad.


    For jedidethfreak do you represent Cryptic? jedidethfreak this is not meant to be mean just more questions to your answers.

    the answers you gave MjrGaelic
    "Endgame content is coming, some as early as next week."

    STO has been release and there is not a End game, There is no excuse for this. We paying players that are staying, need to wait three to four weeks after release come on! that is lame this Game has been released it is not beta we should have had a end game to do already. Also some direction for the top level players when it released for end game or pvp or what ever for them to do. Or a option to go through the missions again and the missions would level them self's for the high levels or explore missions do. Or achievements for high level players to do, would have been nice. Also why did the beta testers, not say anything about no end game in beta is beyond me.
    Endgame raid-i-sodes will require 5 players, and some are rumored to require 20 or more.
    ok that was promised to be in release why did we pay for what is not there?
    "Please cite sources to back up the claim of a "mass exodus." Trolls on the forums don't count."
    That proof is in the price drop for standard edition 49.99 - 39.99 and collators edition form 79.99 to 59.99and Buddy Keys. Atari is nervous or they would have kept there price and no and Buddy Keys
    this early. If this is not a sign of what is goning on, I do not know what is.
    "Cryptic won't answer this, as they won't want to be pigeon-holed by "promises." The closest you'll get is the "what's coming for STO" post on the main site."

    ya but more commutation to us would be nice. A weekly update maybe would help elevate fears. As mentioned above.
    Cryptic is working on another, as-yet-untitled MMO, but they won't be culling the dev team from STO, just as STO didn't cull the dev team from CO.

    I find that hard to believe to keep profits up you have to send a lot of DEVs to the next project. And I hope you are right because if they take them from STO, it will fail.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    the o.p brings up a lot of good points. i am in the same boat as well, i can sum up my thoughts on the game as it being unfocused and unfinished. i was a little disappointed to spend 50 usd on a 'mmo' that look days to pretty much roll through. i do want to see this game succeed but i will not keep my subscription unless a lot of things are changed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    BorgEmpire wrote:
    That review page is not a very good use of measuring an avg score. The big sites with the major scores are at the bottom of the list. I've never heard 90% of the review sites on that list.

    It's easy to 'fluff' and 'buff' your avg score by including as many worthless review sites to increase the avg number.

    What cryptic should do is have a survey for every PAYING customer who plays this game (per paying account) provide a review/rating. That would make more sense to get accurate scores of people who PAID. Not review sites who have no vested interest because they got a FREE copy.

    People's review with their $ seems to make more sense.

    They could even have a second review pool for statistics purpose and have the FREE trial people provide their reviews. Break it down by Del taco reviewers. Guess Pass. Buddy Keys. Media/Press Freeloaders. Pre-order reviews (who never entered cd-retail key). Just statistical % if they dont want to disclose their actual subs base.

    From there you can decide for your self. And not some review site to tell you.

    It's also easy to fluff and buff a metacritic score, when they only have eleven reviews out of a known 41, so what's your point?

    As to player reviews, according to my math on this thread, players are giving it just shy of a 6.2 on average to this point. Not horrible for a new MMO. Not really GOOD, granted, but not horrible, either.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MjrGaelic I think that is a well though out letter. It reflects my views. I have the same concerns about the game being finished. Also will be just get dropped in 6 months?

    Because what got me concern was the price drop in two weeks after that made me wander I paid $80.00 for the collectors edition and know it is $59.99. The only time that happens is when Atari knows they have a game that might lose people because it is getting bad press, or not the game they though it would be. Also it is blow market expectations. Many games have died the same way Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, to name a few they were great games. but they where not hitting the numbers and the price of the game fell fast.Also Buddy Keys, and For STO to drop the price two weeks later, brings a eye brow up. It says to me that Atari and maybe cryptic knows some thing we don't.

    I like this game a lot and I see what it can become. But hit the bad press and unfinished areas head on make it better. Then go get the costumers back STO will make it. But if they drop it in 6 months to a year, and just fix bugs, not continue the DEV for it and let it die. This will make me very sad.


    For jedidethfreak do you represent Cryptic? jedidethfreak this is not meant to be mean just more questions to your answers.

    the answers you gave MjrGaelic



    STO has been release and there is not a End game, There is no excuse for this. We paying players that are staying, need to wait three to four weeks after release come on! that is lame this Game has been released it is not beta we should have had a end game to do already. Also some direction for the top level players when it released for end game or pvp or what ever for them to do. Or a option to go through the missions again and the missions would level them self's for the high levels or explore missions do. Or achievements for high level players to do, would have been nice. Also why did the beta testers, not say anything about no end game in beta is beyond me.


    ok that was promised to be in release why did we pay for what is not there?


    That proof is in the price drop for standard edition 49.99 - 39.99 and collators edition form 79.99 to 59.99and Buddy Keys. Atari is nervous or they would have kept there price and no and Buddy Keys
    this early. If this is not a sign of what is goning on, I do not know what is.



    ya but more commutation to us would be nice. A weekly update maybe would help elevate fears. As mentioned above.



    I find that hard to believe to keep profits up you have to send a lot of DEVs to the next project. And I hope you are right because if they take them from STO, it will fail.

    No, I don't represent Cryptic, but I do read a lot of dev posts.

    Very few MMO's have endgame available at launch. WoW didn't, UO didn't, Guild Wars never had it, the list goes on. It was also announced prior to launch that the planned endgame content wouldn't be available at launch,so it's not like we didn't see it coming, and, by definition, you didn't pay for it.

    All MMO's do a price drop very soon after launch, because they want to bring in more people, and sub fees make that affordable very quickly.

    Yes, more communication would be good, but Cryptic has gotten a lot of bad press because people jumped the gun, and they're overcompensating. It's just something we're going to have to deal with, at least in the short term.

    To your final point, Cryptic has roughly 250 employees, and the whole team for STO was about 70. The team for CO was about the same size, so there's no reason to suspect that the dev team for their other game wouldn't be about 70 as well. Cryptic has already announced that the STO dev team was working solely on STO, CO has it's own people and the third game has it's own team, and there is very little mixing of the teams. Does it happen? Yeah, of course. However, it isn't an issue where STO won't have a dev team in a few months because the other game is ramping up development.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I would like to add some things.

    1. Endgame content is coming.....
    Hmm cool, raidisodes should be there yesterday (with patch). Didnt happened. No word on this (we are working, bugged, etc.) so we can trust their 45 day patch as much as if I said that I will program really cool missions.

    2.Exodus
    You know some people already have 2 RAs, normal players are hitting RA now. With nothing to do - no sub. Also many people will withdraw their sub until they will see the 45 day patch.

    3. Promises
    See 1. They can and will promise us anything if we pay another month. After two years we have this. It is naive to think that that they will be able to add enough content to double the amount we have now (to add Klingons) in 45 days. Things is that it is they empty words vs. our hard money.

    4.Another MMo
    Yep they are working on another one, probably Dungeon and Dragons one. They are probably on a way to destroy yet another great and old franchise with same instanced crappy engine.

    5.Price fall
    We can prepare that our money will degrade quickly, right now, their last game Champions Online is in bargain bin, only after 6 months. Even WoW vanilla costs more. The new retail box of ChO is cheaper than month subscription (10 bucks vs. 15), add that you can finish that game with one char in 2 weeks, it is better to buy new box every month.........
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I will give Cryptic this. I feel this is Atari's Fault they bought Cryptic in the middle of Development. Then I bet they forced Cryptic to get it out because Atari is on the edge of going under.

    You can see in the interviews that Cryptic wanted to do more, and could do more. But I feel Atari wanted there money know and could not wait 4 more months, or a year.

    I bet Atari also thought the KOTOR MMO would make them lose market share. But this is not the first time that a game company shoved out any thing early because they where afraid of the other game and it went out unfinished. Atari does not Know what they where doing and would not look at the real market. Star trek fans and Star wars fans are different but like each other, and both games could have complement each other.

    But no! Atari got greed as they always do because the are hurting. They need to slow down and let the game be fixed and finished. Not just drop it, and maybe STO can still make a come back. But Shame on Atari for pushing Cryptic to far.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hunaxor wrote: »
    I would like to add some things.

    1. Endgame content is coming.....
    Hmm cool, raidisodes should be there yesterday (with patch). Didnt happened. No word on this (we are working, bugged, etc.) so we can trust their 45 day patch as much as if I said that I will program really cool missions.

    2.Exodus
    You know some people already have 2 RAs, normal players are hitting RA now. With nothing to do - no sub. Also many people will withdraw their sub until they will see the 45 day patch.

    3. Promises
    See 1. They can and will promise us anything if we pay another month. After two years we have this. It is naive to think that that they will be able to add enough content to double the amount we have now (to add Klingons) in 45 days.

    4.Another MMo
    Yep they are working on another one, probably Dungeon and Dragons one. They are probably on a way to destroy yet another great and old franchise with same instanced crappy engine.

    5.Price fall
    We can prepare that our money will degrade quickly, right now, their last game Champions Online is in bargain bin, only after 6 months. Even WoW vanilla costs more. The new retail box of ChO is cheaper than month subscription (10 bucks vs. 15), add that you can finish that game with one char in 2 weeks, it is better to buy new box every month.........

    1. They said last week that it slipped to next week.
    2. That's totally fine by me, what they do.
    3. Do you really think that they didn't start working on more Klingon PvE until launch?
    4. Please link to anything to suggest that they're working on a DnD MMO, when one already exists.
    5. WoW costed more at launch, and comes with two month of game time. Not really a fair comparison.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    4. Please link to anything to suggest that they're working on a DnD MMO, when one already exists.

    Looks more post apocalyptic with demons then DnD

    Edit after looking again maybe not Post apocalyptic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    1. They said last week that it slipped to next week.
    2. That's totally fine by me, what they do.
    3. Do you really think that they didn't start working on more Klingon PvE until launch?
    4. Please link to anything to suggest that they're working on a DnD MMO, when one already exists.
    5. WoW costed more at launch, and comes with two month of game time. Not really a fair comparison.

    1. It can slip and slip, slip then slip, ..... we pay, and pay, pay then pay.....
    Maybe I dont trust them as you do, maybe I am too negative.

    3. Even if they would have tutorial or 1-10 missions, they should be already in game. They are not, they will add some exploration soon (grindy repetitive Genesis). Hopes are not high....

    4. Many people said it will be DnD, Atari has rights on Forgotten Realms, also they said it somewhere maybe, that it should be Neverwinter Nights Online. But in the end it doesnt matter. If you have such big IP as ST, you really dont have to develop another one in so soon. But it is their business, sadly outcome is what we get. And it is not pretty.

    5. In my country, WoW still costs more then ChO, and it has also only one month free. Same for Blizzard store. Also I think that it went for classic 50 bucks imo (maybe 60).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    No, I don't represent Cryptic, but I do read a lot of dev posts.

    Very few MMO's have endgame available at launch. WoW didn't, UO didn't, Guild Wars never had it, the list goes on. It was also announced prior to launch that the planned endgame content wouldn't be available at launch,so it's not like we didn't see it coming, and, by definition, you didn't pay for it.

    All MMO's do a price drop very soon after launch, because they want to bring in more people, and sub fees make that affordable very quickly.

    Yes, more communication would be good, but Cryptic has gotten a lot of bad press because people jumped the gun, and they're overcompensating. It's just something we're going to have to deal with, at least in the short term.

    To your final point, Cryptic has roughly 250 employees, and the whole team for STO was about 70. The team for CO was about the same size, so there's no reason to suspect that the dev team for their other game wouldn't be about 70 as well. Cryptic has already announced that the STO dev team was working solely on STO, CO has it's own people and the third game has it's own team, and there is very little mixing of the teams. Does it happen? Yeah, of course. However, it isn't an issue where STO won't have a dev team in a few months because the other game is ramping up development.

    Sorry, as you stated "No, I don't represent Cryptic, but I do read a lot of dev posts." does not make you a expert on what Cryptic does with there employees in the Dev team. Also it makes your answers a little thin. I have to agree with hunaxor in the post above 3. Promises. they have been Promising and Promising things. Not munch has come down yet, not hay we are running behind but here is a preview.

    But I fell Atari is dropping there losses and telling Cryptic to fix the big bugs. Be done move on to what might sell better we can not afford to support more Dev. Again Atari is having Money problems.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hunaxor wrote: »
    1. It can slip and slip, slip then slip, ..... we pay, and pay, pay then pay.....
    Maybe I dont trust them as you do, maybe I am too negative.

    3. Even if they would have tutorial or 1-10 missions, they should be already in game. They are not, they will add some exploration soon (grindy repetitive Genesis). Hopes are not high....

    4. Many people said it will be DnD, Atari has rights on Forgotten Realms, also they said it somewhere maybe, that it should be Neverwinter Nights Online. But in the end it doesnt matter. If you have such big IP as ST, you really dont have to develop another one in so soon. But it is their business, sadly outcome is what we get. And it is not pretty.

    5. In my country, WoW still costs more then ChO, and it has also only one month free. Same for Blizzard store. Also I think that it went for classic 50 bucks imo (maybe 60).

    1. If they don't have the first raidisode out before you pay for the sub, don't pay for it, if it matters that much to you.

    3. You don't know what they'll add any more than I do, as it hasn't been discussed.

    4. Again, link to the naming of the IP, or it didn't happen. Also, STO's rushed development was at the behest of the IP owner, not because they're making three MMO's, one right after the other.

    5. WoW still does cost more, but all of the boxes I see on store shelves here in Minnesota all say two months of game time, and they sold for $60 US at launch, while CO still only comes with one free month, and was $50 US at launch, so it's an unfair comparison, as I stated.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sorry, as you stated "No, I don't represent Cryptic, but I do read a lot of dev posts." does not make you a expert on what Cryptic does with there employees in the Dev team. Also it makes your answers a little thin. I have to agree with hunaxor in the post above 3. Promises. they have been Promising and Promising things. Not munch has come down yet, not hay we are running behind but here is a preview.

    But I fell Atari is dropping there losses and telling Cryptic to fix the big bugs. Be done move on to what might sell better we can not afford to support more Dev. Again Atari is having Money problems.

    Making wild and unsubstantiated claims about one thing or another holds more weight with you than things that can be confirmed via the dev tracker?

    Again, it's CBS's fault for the short dev cycle, not Atari, as much as you may want it to be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Making wild and unsubstantiated claims about one thing or another holds more weight with you than things that can be confirmed via the dev tracker?

    Again, it's CBS's fault for the short dev cycle, not Atari, as much as you may want it to be.


    Ok CBS Atari who ever!

    The ball was drop and they know it, It is unfinished because they did not take there time and got money hungry. So I hope they do not drop it and give it the Time it needed, and it should have had the in first place, to get it done. So they can get the other costumers back.

    But the truth is people are seeing the true colors of the game, and know they see it is uncompleted. Posts of a promises of more to come and that more should have come on release. Is not going to Sale anyone that know sees the truth.

    But look I like the game a lot but I a very concerned that they tell cryptic to drop it and stop the investment in to it. and it will be another flop Star trek game because either A. Star trek fans as always want everything and don't get what they want (and you can never make them happy. Or B. CBS Atari Got greed and did not read the market. and give it some more time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    1. If they don't have the first raidisode out before you pay for the sub, don't pay for it, if it matters that much to you.

    3. You don't know what they'll add any more than I do, as it hasn't been discussed.

    4. Again, link to the naming of the IP, or it didn't happen. Also, STO's rushed development was at the behest of the IP owner, not because they're making three MMO's, one right after the other.

    5. WoW still does cost more, but all of the boxes I see on store shelves here in Minnesota all say two months of game time, and they sold for $60 US at launch, while CO still only comes with one free month, and was $50 US at launch, so it's an unfair comparison, as I stated.

    OK, I can let you think that you have won, but this is my last answer for some hours, I have to go out.

    1. It is not about raidisodes, I will sub next month for alts, not some raids. What I wanted to say was that they are giving us words, we give them money. Lot of things stated by them went poof or is not backed with acts. So my hope is low now. But we will see.

    3.We will see, you are more optimistic, I am more pessimistic. But imagine the surprise and good response if they added some Kling early content now, if they have it. And they should, 45 days patch is after 3? 4?weeks.

    4. http://weblogs.variety.com/the_cut_scene/2009/06/ataris-secret-weapon-neverwinter-nights.html or http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174706

    So nothing official but rumors are there. Also it should be 2011 so another hurried one. And I dont said that STO was rushed because of Cryptic. It was all this CBS, Perpetual, 10 years of development issue. And probably they will have to hurry that new MMo too because of Atari. Still I have problem with that I feel milked at every step (but I dont have to be if I dont want) for not so stellar unfinished product. YOu know, they could say, we know, we rushed it, servers are not so good (imo better now) we will be easy on money grabbing until we fixed everything. Maybe I am just irracional here, not that they are milking too much, but the feeling is here. Blame me.

    5. We can agree that both games went down 40 bucks in price. Online store description says that both have 1 month free. WoW went down after 5 years, ChO after 6 months. On the other hand the distributor is also a factor here. Still, relatively new mmo that costs less then month sub?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hunaxor wrote: »
    OK, I can let you think that you have won, but this is my last answer for some hours, I have to go out.

    So nothing official but rumors are there. Also it should be 2011 so another hurried one. And I dont said that STO was rushed because of Cryptic. It was all this CBS, Perpetual, 10 years of development issue. And probably they will have to hurry that new MMo too because of Atari. Still I have problem with that I feel milked at every step (but I dont have to be if I dont want) for not so stellar unfinished product. YOu know, they could say, we know, we rushed it, servers are not so good (imo better now) we will be easy on money grabbing until we fixed everything. Maybe I am just irracional here, not that they are milking too much, but the feeling is here. Blame me.

    5. We can agree that both games went down 40 bucks in price. Online store description says that both have 1 month free. WoW went down after 5 years, ChO after 6 months. On the other hand the distributor is also a factor here. Still, relatively new mmo that costs less then month sub?

    I agree and I did not want to say it. But I do feel miked the hole way I mean I Paid 79.99 for what two weeks later is 59.99. that Has never happend in gameing from what I know of. I Feel riped off. If I would have waited 2 weeks I could have got it for 20.00 less then the day aftter release.

    so you are right. Thanks for posting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I will be honest.

    I am myself not a fan of Cryptic as an MMO company.

    Let's look at some of their History:

    1)CoV/CoH - The best part of that game was the character creation screen. Cookie cutter mmo with generic instances which were nothing more then repetitive. Zero engaging content, zero replayability, and pretty much the basis for what we have now. That game as well ended up level 50 with really nothing to do once you reach level cap beyond roll another super hero or villan. The PvP system was half assed and the updates were never captivating enough nor frequent enough to retain the game's player base.

    2)CO - There are enough posts on this forum about that game already so I really don't feel the need to go on. Pretty much exactly what I posted above holds true to CO.

    Now onto STO.......

    The only reason I even remotely thought of purchasing another Cryptic title was due to this IP. I am a big star trek fan. Quite frankly after all is said and done I feel as thought I was pretty much suckered again into this as STO is nothing more then Cov/CoH with a star trek setting.

    1)No engaging content - I'm sorry but in this day and age MMO players expect a complete product when something goes live. This reminds me to much of CoH/CoV where I feel the end game will end up being nothing more then a rerolling of alts.

    2)Repetitive PvE for feds - zero PvE for klingons. Yes I understand all pve is repetitive to an extent but really goto this planet beam down here kill 5 guys , fly to this zone kill 5 ships. Totally linear with zero ability to do anything beyond the scripted events or chain of quests. The complete opposite of sandbox. Literally this game takes you from point A to B while leveing with no possibility of a detour.

    3)Lack of Communication - Once again after a game goes live - Cryptic all of the sudden becomes very quiet.

    4)Klingon Faction - Why release a faction if it's not anywhere complete? Klingons are basically broken and most Feds are complaining about que times. The thing is most Klinks rerolled feds because there is absolutely nothing to do on the klink faction side expect grind 1 repeatable pve quest and then que for pvp.

    Truth be told - I really want to like this game but the bottom line is it's nothing more then a mediocre single player space sim with a chat box. No engaging content, no requirement for fleets to work together , limited content and a simple scripted path to level with no diversion possible.

    Once again I am not sure why I am shocked but this is simply CoH/CoV - CO all over again except this time they are destroying a good IP along the way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I love you Star Trek.
    I hate that this happened to you.
    I love you more than Orcs but......there is no challenge or social aspect here.
    No real sense of pretendland accomplishment even.
    Cash (energy) is overly available to the point you do not need to or can not even spend it even before Captain 1.
    Leveling is just sadly easy and no setback or downtime for death....come on now.
    There is not enough variety in the "classes" to make leveling up alts even worthwhile.

    I will do as everyone suggests and speak with our wallets.
    4 more accounts waiting for the day you add some crafting and social aspects as well as turn off ezmode gamewide. Oh and come up with something besides the exact SAME mission 90% of the time just with different graphics to scan/kill.

    For the folks who payed 79.99 for CE. Most stores including Best Buy will give you the difference back within 14days..some even more than 14days. Doesn't need to be price dropped at Best Buy either BB will give you adjustment for GameSlops price cut..so will Wal Marts etc etc.
    Got some nice cash back for the ones we couldnt return outright.
    Damn kids taking off shrinkwraps!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Making wild and unsubstantiated claims about one thing or another holds more weight with you than things that can be confirmed via the dev tracker?

    Again, it's CBS's fault for the short dev cycle, not Atari, as much as you may want it to be.

    Wrong my ill informed friend, Cryptic got the rights to the IP because they stated they could push out the product in such a short time, dont defend Cryptic for the bad decisions they made. They always use the same model for their games, rack up profits from initial box sales and to hell with the rest, it goes on the back burner in maintainance mode AKA CO. The way you patrol these forums stating stuff that obviously ISNT fact AS fact boggles me to the point of wondering if you are a closet Cryptic employee here to sooth the masses lol. Either that or you just like to think of yourself as an unofficial mouth-piece for cryptic, either way you fail.

    Cryptic has promised to deliver with STO and has failed badly, repeatedley failed to come up with the goods they stated they would, How can anyone be surprised at the drop in morale and player base? Its just common sense people are not going to hang around and wait for Cryptic to get a concience.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Azreell wrote: »
    I will be honest.

    I am myself not a fan of Cryptic as an MMO company.

    Let's look at some of their History:

    1)CoV/CoH - The best part of that game was the character creation screen. Cookie cutter mmo with generic instances which were nothing more then repetitive. Zero engaging content, zero replayability, and pretty much the basis for what we have now. That game as well ended up level 50 with really nothing to do once you reach level cap beyond roll another super hero or villan. The PvP system was half assed and the updates were never captivating enough nor frequent enough to retain the game's player base.

    Okay, stop right there. Is that why they've had a stable fanbase for 5 years now, AND why they've had, with a few exceptions, content most games would CHARGE FOR as free updates around every three months?

    There's plenty to do at end game, especially with the mission architect supplying new content daily (INCLUDING stories written by guest authors like Troy Hickman and... Was it Mercedes Lackey? Gah, have to go look that up...). Hamidon, Lady Grey Task Force, Statesman/Lord Recluse Task Forces, the Cimmeroran task force, etc etc etc...

    Granted some of that came after Cryptic sold the rights to NCsoft, but it WAS a Cryptic game before hand, and, say what you will about Jack, it STILL wouldn't have made it this long without the work they initially put into it.

    At least know what you're talking about before you bash another game.
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