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This is for anyone who played EQ.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited February 2011 in Ten Forward
I just read this and man it set something off in me.
It's an MMO, so missions are supposed to be overly easy.

Old man rant /on

No! :eek:

This generation of MMO players are getting spoon fed and spoiled, but it is not your fault. I blame the parents (Devs) for spoon feeding you.

Go play EQ. NO quest in EQ was easy.

Even the starter quests, where it would tell you to go get 10 rat tails, could get you killed.

MMOs before WoW were hard. MMOs after are easy.

Don't get me wrong, I actually liked WoW. It had a lot of good features and was fun for a year or two, but the tough quests were rare.

[old man voice] In my day, we had to explore online worlds to even find quests and we liked it that way!

In EQ there was a massive world, with mulitiple continents, ships to sail on the open seas to get you there and mystery around every corner. I miss stepping out of a town and having a FULL world to run around in and not know where i am going. I was hoping this game was going to be like that for space travel.

I'm not saying old MMOs were perfect, God knows EQ had it's flaws, but the freedom to explore and the challenge of the quests made you pay attention to what you were doing.

Now a few years later, post WoW, we have sleeper quests, no death penalty, no exploration, no sense of adventure, no need for any strategy.

It's one thing to make online worlds player friendly, and EQ was sorely lacking there, but we have gone too far to ease the players challenges.

Old man rant /off

Now get off my lawn! :)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hehehe......

    I say bring back the hell levels!

    If STO was like EQ, then everyone would still be a LC.

    :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Knocky wrote: »
    Hehehe......

    I say bring back the hell levels!

    If STO was like EQ, then everyone would still be a LC.

    :eek:

    You act like that is a bad thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yeah I miss the old UO days myself. Some folks dont want to 'invest' into a game long term. They dont want to have virtual lives or explore continents. They just want to play a game. Sadly for us who like those things there are more of those people and games want to cater to the largest common denominator.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i should still have a rotting corpse in the lake of ill omen:D
    Yes I feel you on the "world", when i see a planet or moon, i wanna explore it.
    I want to beam over to your ship for nachos and hit on your female BO's
    I want to do a simple ground mission where I can explore and get quests specific to that planet only.
    hidden caves, secret worm holes, all stuff we have spoke of before, lots of potential here!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yea.. difficulty is a good thing.. I like the mechanics of this game, but I feel like i'm play DisneyMMO w/ space gloves.. so far there is very little in the way of challenge, and even if there occasionally is POP no death penalty... at least send my back to earth and reset the mission or something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Knocky wrote: »
    Hehehe......

    I say bring back the hell levels!

    If STO was like EQ, then everyone would still be a LC.

    :eek:

    Actually, if STO were like EQ, then everyone would be at Lt 4, spamming broadcast looking for a group to get their corpse... err Miranda.

    Ahh, good times :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As someone who started in MMOs with Meridian 59 and DAoC, lemme say this:

    Git off ma lawn!

    Yes MMOs have gotten easier.

    There's a reason for that.

    The 'casual' market is MUCH MUCH BIGGER than the 'hardcore' market.

    Yet a casual player pays the same money as the hardcore player.

    Tell me, which makes more business sense to be catering to?

    Things change. Things always change. Either you adapt or you get left behind.



    -np

    intends to be playing computer games when he's 90 and feeble. almost there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I enjoyed the days of Meridian 59.. where murder was an objective of many players.. where the end game was stealing other guild's fancy halls..

    I remember very well sitting in the tavern and hearing "so and so mass murderer has logged on! lets get him!" and the whole server running to do epic battle with them..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As someone who started in MMOs with Meridian 59 and DAoC, lemme say this:

    Git off ma lawn!

    Yes MMOs have gotten easier.

    There's a reason for that.

    The 'casual' market is MUCH MUCH BIGGER than the 'hardcore' market.

    Yet a casual player pays the same money as the hardcore player.

    Tell me, which makes more business sense to be catering to?

    Things change. Things always change. Either you adapt or you get left behind.



    -np

    intends to be playing computer games when he's 90 and feeble. almost there.

    Yes, I too played Meridian 59, but that was so old, i felt that it was not worth brining up. :)

    As to your point, i think there can be a good mix, between a pain in the TRIBBLE to play and being spoon fed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ah, the good old days......

    What would you like your tombstone to say?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If you want to get technical, EQ really didn't HAVE any quests at the beginning. ;) It was just mob killing and dungeon crawling. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sevok wrote: »
    If you want to get technical, EQ really didn't HAVE any quests at the beginning. ;) It was just mob killing and dungeon crawling. :)

    Yes, Neverquest. :)

    It did have quests, but they were simple in nature, but hard to do.

    the real quest was to go adventure and try not to die. :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    nicely said, but how the heck are we gonna do a corpse run from Space Freeport to Space Qeynos in space? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Rikarus wrote: »
    nicely said, but how the heck are we gonna do a corpse run from Space Freeport to Space Qeynos in space? :D

    You get a space SoW ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yes, Neverquest. :)

    It did have quests, but they were simple in nature, but hard to do.

    the real quest was to go adventure and try not to die. :eek:

    I was a Necro...non-issue for me. ;)

    Notice my avatar? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sevok wrote: »
    If you want to get technical, EQ really didn't HAVE any quests at the beginning. ;) It was just mob killing and dungeon crawling. :)

    This is very true.

    EQ later had the most customizable user interface ever til WoW came out. I still chuckle whenever I see someone act as if Blizzard came up with the idea.

    I re-skinned EQ so it had the interface from the game DOOM. Right down the the little guy's face getting bloodier as you took more damage. Some of the game buffs would give you the 'invincible' face.

    The first time I logged into Starbase 01 here I zone-yelled "BAAA-ARK! You've ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!"

    Nobody there got it. :(




    -np
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    EQ later had the most customizable user interface ever til WoW came out. I still chuckle whenever I see someone act as if Blizzard came up with the idea.

    Sure did. I played from 99-06 or 07. :) Really miss it, hehe.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You should see all the QQ in the Veteran's forums there about the new expansion. The hardcore raider element literally screamed for harder content, and now that they got it they want it easier lol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You act like that is a bad thing.


    Not really since i am LTC 7. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This is very true.

    EQ later had the most customizable user interface ever til WoW came out. I still chuckle whenever I see someone act as if Blizzard came up with the idea.

    I re-skinned EQ so it had the interface from the game DOOM. Right down the the little guy's face getting bloodier as you took more damage. Some of the game buffs would give you the 'invincible' face.

    The first time I logged into Starbase 01 here I zone-yelled "BAAA-ARK! You've ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!"

    Nobody there got it. :(




    -np

    Fippy! :D:D:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I just read this and man it set something off in me.



    Old man rant /on

    No! :eek:

    This generation of MMO players are getting spoon fed and spoiled, but it is not your fault. I blame the parents (Devs) for spoon feeding you.

    Go play EQ. NO quest in EQ was easy.

    Even the starter quests, where it would tell you to go get 10 rat tails, could get you killed.

    MMOs before WoW were hard. MMOs after are easy.

    Don't get me wrong, I actually liked WoW. It had a lot of good features and was fun for a year or two, but the tough quests were rare.

    [old man voice] In my day, we had to explore online worlds to even find quests and we liked it that way!

    In EQ there was a massive world, with mulitiple continents, ships to sail on the open seas to get you there and mystery around every corner. I miss stepping out of a town and having a FULL world to run around in and not know where i am going. I was hoping this game was going to be like that for space travel.

    I'm not saying old MMOs were perfect, God knows EQ had it's flaws, but the freedom to explore and the challenge of the quests made you pay attention to what you were doing.

    Now a few years later, post WoW, we have sleeper quests, no death penalty, no exploration, no sense of adventure, no need for any strategy.

    It's one thing to make online worlds player friendly, and EQ was sorely lacking there, but we have gone too far to ease the players challenges.

    Old man rant /off

    Now get off my lawn! :)

    Excellent post! You have hit the nail on the head with how I view STO. It's just too simple and there is no exploration to speak of in a possibly infinite area - space.

    'Ahhh, I feel much better now.....'
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    szurlo wrote: »
    You get a space SoW ;)



    You mean BEG for hours in General Chat for a space SoW! lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    totally agree!

    Im not as old as you, only being 21, but i have been gaming since the age of 12 ish when i was introduced to consoles by my grandmother.

    I ENJOY a challenge, i love difficult games. Sadly, theyre just isn't a difficulty anymore.

    Its either:

    - Ridiculously hard, I.E impossible for nearly everyone
    - Ridiculously easy, I.E easy for anyone with skill

    No middle ground. I recall Tibia, EQ, and other such mmo's (though tibia was a browser game) which had extremely difficult quests!

    Risk was involved. You required skill to play games.

    What happened?

    WoW came along. WoW spoon feeds its players.

    Since WoW, any player that 'leaves' WoW comes onto a new game and complains about how difficult it is. Most companies then dull down the game.

    I mean, In PvP i got called a hacker for multi-targetting and killing two klingongs in 2v1 on space combat. It was easy, the idiot had stayed directly behind me while the other was directly infront, so i simply used my cannons front and aft phaser to kill them both.

    Its a shame really. I was a competitive gamer, i competed in league for CS and CSS, and i have had my 'glory days' (though my clan never got into the top 20)

    But im just...so ashamed of gamers when i see this:

    Aion online, quest - Find Rin. Witch turned her into a frog. Each frog has fliptitle names:

    'Ugly frog' and ONE, JUST ONE has 'Cute frog'

    zone chat was spammed like this:

    "WHERE IS RAE?!?!?"
    "omg which frog is rae?"
    "WTF IS THIS ****, THERE IS NO RAE"

    etc. etc. It was BLATANTLY obvious.

    Same with STO, we hit open beta.

    Developers had to put npc's in discussion the location of sulu ACROSS the starbase, because these kids couldn't locate him.

    Despite, you know, the fact you have to see the other admiral, and that its clearly marked on both map and journal....

    I miss the difficulty from the old closed test. On the LAST test, we had a revamp of the AI and difficulty. they were FLANKING us, they were using shields and abilities, and they were VERY difficult to kill. It was great.

    But the forums lit up with cries of 'ITS TOO HARD' and they nerfed it for open. Then they nerfed it again for retail...

    Take a look at me. I very rarely use shields. I pretty much put all power to weaponry and i lose shields eventually, but i rarely die. Its just too easy.

    Hell they STILL havent given us a response as to a death penalty.

    At the moment its an easy arcade game. You died? woops, respawn. Go on again !

    Meaning the IMMENSE tactics they have put into the game (all sorts of skills and bonuses and manovours and such) are immediately nulled. Why bother? I can just zerg you.

    *sigh*

    Maybe, just maybe, they will put death penalty in to feel like a star trek world.

    Im currently saddend by the fact i have a self repairing 100% invincable starship that never dies.

    I really wanted to have to redock at spacedock to pick on new crew, to repair extremely damaged systems, etc, like i should have to !

    its what bugged me about voyager. 99% of voyager was spent on a immortal ship that practically never took any lasting damage.

    I guess the days of skilled gamers are gone ?

    I recently picked up a fps game and went online. Took the sniper rifle. I was topping the scoreboards, and i wasn't even trying. It was as if i had been put against the new people to CS with an AWP and unlimited ammo =/

    I want my difficulty back :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I don't know if I agree the missions should be harder across the board but they should certainly be more complex. As it stands we fight a little, or a lot, and then hit the F key till the mission success screen pops up. It is not good content. Its just a hamster wheel with Star Trek music playing in the background, some of the time its not ever that good.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.

    SOW PLZ.



    -np
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Rikarus wrote: »
    You mean BEG for hours in General Chat for a space SoW! lol

    Sorry, that's your problem. I was a Ranger :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I was a druid, later a beastlord as mains.

    Biggest mistake of my EQ life. Learning the Spirit of Wolf spell and proceeding to excitedly announce in chat about it.

    Augh. :eek:

    I tried a bard for a couple of weeks but my fingers were like OMG they're all mangled and broken.


    -np
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lithomed wrote:
    I don't know if I agree the missions should be harder across the board but they should certainly be more complex. As it stands we fight a little, or a lot, and then hit the F key till the mission success screen pops up. It is not good content. Its just a hamster wheel with Star Trek music playing in the background, some of the time its not ever that good.

    Ahh one more button masher who skips story and then moans the missions don't have substance lol.

    Looking at this guys post history all he has done for 2 weeks is say how bad the game is yet hes on here and still playing the game rofl.

    Some people have really empty life's.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    zone in

    /ooc Camp check please


    Some times I really do miss EQ, some of the mechanics in that game I do not miss however. Still remember the first time i headed to OOT to get a spell, was a long trip.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I really miss the old days of EQ, to this day it tops my list as the beast MMO of all time.

    Shame EQ2 was horrid IMHO. I would love to play a relaunched EQ with a "modern" quest system and all of the orginal content. Long as I am dreaming revamped graphix and tuned so you solo and group your way up.
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