Ok, this is ludicrus; in Star Trek lore, the Federation does not have a huge fleet. The Borg almost wiped the fleet out in one battle. Yet I fight 100-200 Federation ships each battle it seems and after losing that many people (figure avg 200 people per ship) the Federation nations would be up in arms to end the war so their people could live. :cool:
On the ground it is even worse, I just engaged in a fight where I must have killed over a 1000 Federation, more kept beaming down... :eek:
I would rather fight fewer federation with high quality than more federation with bolts for brains.... :rolleyes:
In the shows the battles consist of maybe up to a dozen ships; that 200+ ships would come to die at my Disruptors is an honor but wasteful; please make our opponents worthy...:p
Your forgetting about DS9. The battle to re-take DS9 from the Dominion fielded 627 ships, and that was only 3 fleets out of many. Also, the fleets weren't even fully assembled when they were forced to attack DS9 to prevent the minefield from being de-activated. That said, one thing that irks me while playing is the fact that my little miranda class vessel can withstand a barrage from Negh'vars and Vor'cha's. There should be no huge ships flying around in my missions, it makes me feel like im flying the USS Invincible.
Yeah the borg battle you are thinking of at Wolf 359 was a bad period for the Federation. They were lulled into a false sense of peace after ending hostilities with the Klingons and very few new ships were built in the 1st half of the 24th century and old ones lives were greatly extended (see all the Excelsiors, Mirandas and Oberth classes running around?).
In the decade AFTER Wolf 359 occurred however, the Federation rapidly began building up their military forces and upgrading weapons/shield technologies. When the Dominion war occurred it was simply good timing for the Federation because if Wolf hadnt occurred I do believe they would NOT have won the war with Excelsiors, Mirandas and 1-4 Galaxys.
Ok, this is ludicrus; in Star Trek lore, the Federation does not have a huge fleet.
I haven't seen anything in lore that says Starfleet doesn't have a large fleet. AFAK they've bever even said what the size of the fleet was.
I'd actually argue that SF would have to have a large fleet. First, just to adequately cover the amount of federation space and second they'd be crazy not to. Despite the plot device of "Your the only ship in the quandrant!" the Federation has a lot of enemies. Game wise they're having conflicts with the Borg, rogue cardassians, Jem' Hadar and the Romulans and Klingons....they'd need to have a rather large fleet just to survive.
There is a large amount of conjecture about the size of Starfleet. THIS SOURCE has some reference information in its Background section. HERE lists another set of numbers. THIS DISCUSSION also puts forth several numbers, some of which are highly suspect.
As for the size of the Federation:
By the early 2370s, the Federation's territory was spread across 8,000 light years, with a membership of over 150 worlds and over 1,000 semi-autonomous colonies.
That Starfleet consists of several thousand ships. However, these ships are both spread out across Federation space, on patrols along borders, and traveling far afield beyond the edges of known space on scientific and exploration missions. Because of this, losing a fleet of 40 some odd ships (like Wolf 359) requires the drawing of ships across a large amount of territory, which leaves a large portion of your territory exposed (remember, you can warp directly from point a to b, no choke points in space).
I suspect that other powers, like the Klingon Empire, may have fewer total ships than the Federation. However, they are not as concerned with exploration, and such have a smaller territory. Therefor, they many have a much larger number of ships per light year than the Federation has.
This is why the Dominion may be so dangerous. They combine a large territory through exploration, like the Federation, but have a highly militaristic and conquest oriented structure, like the Klingon Empire. This results in a large territory with lots of resources AND a high number of ships per light year. They could probably send more ships than exist in the entire Klingon Empire in an invasion, and still have plenty in reserves for subsequent actions.
I haven't seen anything in lore that says Starfleet doesn't have a large fleet. AFAK they've bever even said what the size of the fleet was.
I'd actually argue that SF would have to have a large fleet. First, just to adequately cover the amount of federation space and second they'd be crazy not to. Despite the plot device of "Your the only ship in the quandrant!" the Federation has a lot of enemies. Game wise they're having conflicts with the Borg, rogue cardassians, Jem' Hadar and the Romulans and Klingons....they'd need to have a rather large fleet just to survive.
Its been inconsistent. Starfleet referred to themselves as "reeling" and having suffered "heavy losses" at Wolf 359... they lost a grand total of 39 ships.
Yet, in DS9, we hear of numerous federation fleets discussed that contain far more than 39 ships.
My only guess is that the Wolf 359 battle consisted of a single federation fleet (even though they said the whole starfleet was mustering) and its that one fleet that was wiped out. DS9 does seem to indicate starfleet has a ton of ships. (well had, most of the ships in this scene were destroyed with the majority of that fleet by the next episode)
I haven't seen anything in lore that says Starfleet doesn't have a large fleet. AFAK they've bever even said what the size of the fleet was.
After Wolf 359, didn't Commander Shelby (or someone) make some reference to the fact that the number of ships destroyed there represented "a third of the fleet" or some such number...? Gonna have to find that TNG episode and replay it.
EDIT: Although it just occured to me that she could have been referring to "THAT particular fleet" - i.e. the one that engaged the Borg.
Comments
In the decade AFTER Wolf 359 occurred however, the Federation rapidly began building up their military forces and upgrading weapons/shield technologies. When the Dominion war occurred it was simply good timing for the Federation because if Wolf hadnt occurred I do believe they would NOT have won the war with Excelsiors, Mirandas and 1-4 Galaxys.
I'd actually argue that SF would have to have a large fleet. First, just to adequately cover the amount of federation space and second they'd be crazy not to. Despite the plot device of "Your the only ship in the quandrant!" the Federation has a lot of enemies. Game wise they're having conflicts with the Borg, rogue cardassians, Jem' Hadar and the Romulans and Klingons....they'd need to have a rather large fleet just to survive.
As for the size of the Federation:
SOURCE
My guess would be this:
That Starfleet consists of several thousand ships. However, these ships are both spread out across Federation space, on patrols along borders, and traveling far afield beyond the edges of known space on scientific and exploration missions. Because of this, losing a fleet of 40 some odd ships (like Wolf 359) requires the drawing of ships across a large amount of territory, which leaves a large portion of your territory exposed (remember, you can warp directly from point a to b, no choke points in space).
I suspect that other powers, like the Klingon Empire, may have fewer total ships than the Federation. However, they are not as concerned with exploration, and such have a smaller territory. Therefor, they many have a much larger number of ships per light year than the Federation has.
This is why the Dominion may be so dangerous. They combine a large territory through exploration, like the Federation, but have a highly militaristic and conquest oriented structure, like the Klingon Empire. This results in a large territory with lots of resources AND a high number of ships per light year. They could probably send more ships than exist in the entire Klingon Empire in an invasion, and still have plenty in reserves for subsequent actions.
Its been inconsistent. Starfleet referred to themselves as "reeling" and having suffered "heavy losses" at Wolf 359... they lost a grand total of 39 ships.
Yet, in DS9, we hear of numerous federation fleets discussed that contain far more than 39 ships.
My only guess is that the Wolf 359 battle consisted of a single federation fleet (even though they said the whole starfleet was mustering) and its that one fleet that was wiped out. DS9 does seem to indicate starfleet has a ton of ships. (well had, most of the ships in this scene were destroyed with the majority of that fleet by the next episode)
EDIT: Although it just occured to me that she could have been referring to "THAT particular fleet" - i.e. the one that engaged the Borg.