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We Need Respecs..............period

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
3 character slots and do not want to reroll toons til I have finally fine tuned my character. We seriously need respecs. I have put my gameplaying on hold and have just decided to come on the forums until we get respecs because I got tired of rerolling. Oh and tooltips would be nice to explain the stats. If these two things alone were put in it would be nice additions tooltips are not urgent but I feel the respecs are.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What part of "we're working on it." don't you understand?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What part of "we're working on it." don't you understand?

    The part where I am trying to understand this basic element to an MMO was not included at launch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    wrote:
    The part where I am trying to understand this basic element to an MMO was not included at launch.
    You need to understand that a Retcon in STO is not a simple thing. You're not just Retconning 1 character, your Retconning up-to a dozen characters at once: the main and every BO. There's also the issue of Cryptic needing to decide how Trained Skills on BOs will need to be dealt with when their Captain no-longer has the ability to Train those Skill due to the Retcon. It's not quite as mechanically simple as some people seem to believe.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    We Need Respecs..............period

    I think you forgot another period.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You need to understand that a Retcon in STO is not a simple thing. You're not just Retconning 1 character, your Retconning up-to a dozen characters at once: the main and every BO. There's also the issue of Cryptic needing to decide how Trained Skills on BOs will need to be dealt with when their Captain no-longer has the ability to Train those Skill due to the Retcon. It's not quite as mechanically simple as some people seem to believe.

    I hope we don't have to Retcon our bridge officers. You continue getting BO points even after you hit max level so you can always spec up a new one. Anyways, they will get respecs in before too long so just relax and try enjoying the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You need to understand that a Retcon in STO is not a simple thing. You're not just Retconning 1 character, your Retconning up-to a dozen characters at once: the main and every BO. There's also the issue of Cryptic needing to decide how Trained Skills on BOs will need to be dealt with when their Captain no-longer has the ability to Train those Skill due to the Retcon. It's not quite as mechanically simple as some people seem to believe.

    Then that's a bad design flaw. Poor planning is not a good excuse for not including such a basic concept as a respec.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Respecs are needed, but they won't solve the problem.

    The underlying problem relates to the skill tree and the design that makes you spend your SPs in each rank even though many of the skills there can't be used, or won't be used, in gameplay in later ranks. You can reallocate all you like, but unless they also got rid of the requirement to have a certain number of SPs spent in each "tier", you're likely to still have quite a few skills you're not using at RA5. In this sense it isn't really a "skill tree". In a real skill tree, the earlier, pre-requisite skills that unlock more powerful, later game, skills are not useless at the end of the game. It's the concept of "useless at the end of the game but need to spend SPs on them anyway" type skills that screws up the system.

    So as they contemplate how to do a respec, this issue needs to be addressed as well in terms of how they will permit players to allocate their SPs upon a respec.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You need to understand that a Retcon in STO is not a simple thing. You're not just Retconning 1 character, your Retconning up-to a dozen characters at once: the main and every BO. There's also the issue of Cryptic needing to decide how Trained Skills on BOs will need to be dealt with when their Captain no-longer has the ability to Train those Skill due to the Retcon. It's not quite as mechanically simple as some people seem to believe.


    personally I want no respec system and no skill cap. I( just have to ask though why do you insist on making it more complex then it has to be? Why change the bridge officers' skills with a respec at all? the current bridge officer skill point pool will continue to grow after you reach cap at least swapping a bridge skill gives us some use for it.

    respec are only needed because of the skill cap that was imposed in the last weeks of beta. If there was no skill cap this issue would have not happens. In placing a cap on the skill table and not having the appropriate support mechanics in place, not to mention not going over the skill tree so it makes sense with a cap, make me wonder just who decided to cap it. I think it was a directive placed on the devs from higher up the food chain at cryptic

    likely reason why is so they will be able to sell respec at the cstore, also last i heard from an interview last week 1-2 months for a respec system
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    alreya wrote:
    Respecs are needed, but they won't solve the problem.

    The underlying problem relates to the skill tree and the design that makes you spend your SPs in each rank even though many of the skills there can't be used, or won't be used, in gameplay in later ranks. You can reallocate all you like, but unless they also got rid of the requirement to have a certain number of SPs spent in each "tier", you're likely to still have quite a few skills you're not using at RA5. In this sense it isn't really a "skill tree". In a real skill tree, the earlier, pre-requisite skills that unlock more powerful, later game, skills are not useless at the end of the game. It's the concept of "useless at the end of the game but need to spend SPs on them anyway" type skills that screws up the system.

    So as they contemplate how to do a respec, this issue needs to be addressed as well in terms of how they will permit players to allocate their SPs upon a respec.

    It's the fact that the skill tree was intended with a no skill cap system and Cryptic decided to change the fundementals of the game and go with a skill cap without once thinking about the skill tree. If there was no cap, no respecs would be needed. But Cryptic wants you to spend real money on Cryptic points and buy respecs from them. It's all about money and it's 100% terrible
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What part of "we're working on it." don't you understand?

    Op is just a troll trying to stir up anger. Just report him for a ban and ignore him
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Inviegle wrote: »
    The part where I am trying to understand this basic element to an MMO was not included at launch.

    Most MMO's fail to include respecs on launch. It's not really a surprise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    There's also the issue of Cryptic needing to decide how Trained Skills on BOs will need to be dealt with when their Captain no-longer has the ability to Train those Skill due to the Retcon. It's not quite as mechanically simple as some people seem to believe.
    That's easy to solve: LEAVE IT AS IT WAS. In the interviews they talked about how other players could train your BOff skills. THEY CANT. So leave it.
    NinetyNine wrote:
    Most MMO's fail to include respecs on launch. It's not really a surprise.
    Most MMO take more than 5 days to get to maxlevel and have exponentially better documentation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kalecgos wrote: »
    That's easy to solve: LEAVE IT AS IT WAS. In the interviews they talked about how other players could train your BOff skills. THEY CANT. So leave it.
    Other BOs CAN train your BOs by spending 75 Merits. I never remember them saying other 'players' can train your BOs; though they could be Trained by Player A and then sold to Player B.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    jkbond646 wrote: »
    It's the fact that the skill tree was intended with a no skill cap system and Cryptic decided to change the fundementals of the game and go with a skill cap without once thinking about the skill tree.
    I always love how people assume something as fact, as if they were privy to the meeting where the decision was made, and thus know no one was thinking about the Skill Treee. :)
    If there was no cap, no respecs would be needed. But Cryptic wants you to spend real money on Cryptic points and buy respecs from them. It's all about money and it's 100% terrible
    Having a Skill Cap or not having one would have little bearing on people wanting to change something they have made a mistake in taking. Heck, I accidentally took a point in Cannons for my Science character. I never wanted my character to have that skill, but it happen. I'd happily remove it if I could, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You need to understand that a Retcon in STO is not a simple thing. You're not just Retconning 1 character, your Retconning up-to a dozen characters at once: the main and every BO. There's also the issue of Cryptic needing to decide how Trained Skills on BOs will need to be dealt with when their Captain no-longer has the ability to Train those Skill due to the Retcon. It's not quite as mechanically simple as some people seem to believe.

    You mean there's another complication from introducing a skill cap?

    To my understanding you can find BOs with any skill if you search long enough. Why bother with respecs affecting BOs if that is the case?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kalecgos wrote: »
    Most MMO take more than 5 days to get to maxlevel and have exponentially better documentation.

    All MMO's take me more than 5 days to get to max level. Literally. Every single one of them. Actually, they take in the range of months, usually, and a bunch I never hit max level at all. I'm going to go ahead and make a blanket statement on them now: All MMO's take month's to get to max level, and a lot of MMO's have no level cap. That includes STO currently.

    Omitting personal references from sentences is fun and productive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You need to understand that a Retcon in STO is not a simple thing. You're not just Retconning 1 character, your Retconning up-to a dozen characters at once: the main and every BO. There's also the issue of Cryptic needing to decide how Trained Skills on BOs will need to be dealt with when their Captain no-longer has the ability to Train those Skill due to the Retcon. It's not quite as mechanically simple as some people seem to believe.

    then i don´t understand why they jump on the last few days of open beta on the skillcap train...
    they knew that their skill tree is hard to respec and build it in a way where you intentionally don´t need respecs at all - and screwed it by them selv with implementing a skillcap.
    i can truly understand everybody who gets is rage because of that - it is plain silly...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tankqull wrote:
    then i don´t understand why they jump on the last few days of open beta on the skillcap train...
    they knew that their skill tree is hard to respec and build it in a way where you intentionally don´t need respecs at all - and screwed it by them selv with implementing a skillcap.
    i can truly understand everybody who gets is rage because of that - it is plain silly...
    The game has always assumed there'd be a Retcon. There's money to be made in selling Retcons. Cryptic learned that from watching several other games. That doesn't mean there won't be free Retcons in the game but the Skill Cap has nothing to do with the game eventually offering Retcons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    The game has always assumed there'd be a Retcon. There's money to be made in selling Retcons. Cryptic learned that from watching several other games. That doesn't mean there won't be free Retcons in the game but the Skill Cap has nothing to do with the game eventually offering Retcons.

    Ummm i think that is why people are so mad.....just saying
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Slackjaw wrote:
    Ummm i think that is why people are so mad.....just saying
    MTs are the growing trend in MMOs, whether gamers like them or not. Cryptic isn't the only company offering an MT retcon option, nor will they be the last. As long as they eventually offer in-game, as well as MT, methods to get them, like they do in CO, I have no problem with it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I say that they shouldnt add Respecs. That way when a person is playing the game, they actually have to PAY ATTENTION to what your doing instead of clicking **** like a TRIBBLE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    MTs are the growing trend in MMOs, whether gamers like them or not. Cryptic isn't the only company offering an MT retcon option, nor will they be the last. As long as they eventually offer in-game, as well as MT, methods to get them, like they do in CO, I have no problem with it.

    Yes they are and will be until the gamers revolt over having to pay a monthly fee plus MT's just to play the game. Is this the MMO that is going to see the revolt-i doubt it cryptic is just not that stupid but some company is going to step over the invisible line in the sand and charge for actual needed components needed to play the game and the revolt will be massive and cruel--nothing worse than a PO'ed gamer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What part of "we're working on it." don't you understand?

    The part where they arbitrarily threw a skill cap on a system that was designed not to have one.

    And then the part where they tell us that it'll be 1-2 months before we get a respec.
    icefire227 wrote: »
    I say that they shouldnt add Respecs. That way when a person is playing the game, they actually have to PAY ATTENTION to what your doing instead of clicking **** like a TRIBBLE.

    You're kidding me right?

    So you magically knew everything that was going to be available at Admiral level and specc'd accordingly? I'm sure you did, just like I'm sure that when you reach Admiral you won't be the first person to whine about respecs not being in game because you put points into skills you don't need.

    Half the skills in the game have mis-leading tootips, and the other half are only there for planned obsolescence. If you're not gonna play a Heavy Cruiser at 45, there is no reason whatsoever to put points in it. Which only screws Tac Officers more because they have to dump points into useless captain skills to buff their own powers.

    The skill system in this game is a mess only because they decided 7 days prior to launch to throw a cap on it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    icefire227 wrote: »
    I say that they shouldnt add Respecs. That way when a person is playing the game, they actually have to PAY ATTENTION to what your doing instead of clicking **** like a TRIBBLE.

    Because we were all supposed to magically know the only epic level admiral weapons that are going to be available for a while were going to be antiproton and specced accordingly?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Asoon as they changed the game by limiting the skill points they should have looked on what they can do to ease the impact on the player base i.e being able to respec the same time it went live.

    I would rather cancel my sub then have to pay more for an option that should be included in the monthly fee.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Respecs and 5000 more points.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FreyarH wrote: »
    I think you forgot another period.

    I think he's just on his period.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Choices matter? Freakish.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You need to understand that a Retcon in STO is not a simple thing. You're not just Retconning 1 character, your Retconning up-to a dozen characters at once: the main and every BO. There's also the issue of Cryptic needing to decide how Trained Skills on BOs will need to be dealt with when their Captain no-longer has the ability to Train those Skill due to the Retcon. It's not quite as mechanically simple as some people seem to believe.

    um, no its not that difficult. 3 easy steps: 1. set everything to zero, 2. add the points to a pool, 3. remove any self trained character skills (ex: skills that you unlocked yourself to train your officers). This means any skill unlocks you received by acquired officers to "train up" your officers stays, but are set to zero.
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