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A "level-editor"?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I remember, from one of the various live chats, that a dev mentioned the possible release of a "level-editor" in the future. I'm new to MMOs, so could someone please explain the purspose and scope of such a thing? I'm familiar with how they work as far as user-generated game content for fps games, but this game is so different, with centralized servers, etc.

Thanks.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kirkfat wrote: »
    I remember, from one of the various live chats, that a dev mentioned the possible release of a "level-editor" in the future. I'm new to MMOs, so could someone please explain the purspose and scope of such a thing? I'm familiar with how they work as far as user-generated game content for fps games, but this game is so different, with centralized servers, etc.

    Thanks.

    Similar to City of Heroes Architect System. Or possibly SWG's Storyteller system. Although given the instancing nature, guessing more so Architect :).

    Pretty much, a method for a user in game to select from a bunch of preset variables and have the server host for them and use them to generate the content. The purpose, mostly, is to let players create their own stories for others to enjoy in the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cryptic's well known (Well, at least from their project City of Heroes) to add in player-created content to their game(s). Champions has yet to receive this, but I don't doubt that it's planned. Normally, it includes creating your own missions that function like the ones already put in by Cryptic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kurama0900 wrote: »
    Cryptic's well known (Well, at least from their project City of Heroes) to add in player-created content to their game(s). Champions has yet to receive this, but I don't doubt that it's planned. Normally, it includes creating your own missions that function like the ones already put in by Cryptic.

    And as a point of clarity here, that I prolly should have mentioned with my earlier post. Architect was added under the Paragon Studios label, not really anything to do with Cryptic at all. It is a very good idea though, especially for heavily instanced games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    reiella wrote: »
    Similar to City of Heroes Architect System. Or possibly SWG's Storyteller system. Although given the instancing nature, guessing more so Architect :).

    Pretty much, a method for a user in game to select from a bunch of preset variables and have the server host for them and use them to generate the content. The purpose, mostly, is to let players create their own stories for others to enjoy in the game.


    This is really interesting to me, since I've enjoyed creating game content for other games. How much freedom does a user have with CoH for example in creating unique storylines, sets, playable atmospheres, etc.

    Or, is it very pre-fab and limited. From you post, it sounds like users write the dialogue.

    How to other players find those stories?

    Is there an user-generated PvP content? Could I create an amok time set for PvP battle or something like that?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There was a Best Buy dev chat where Craig said they still had a few surprises left for the game. He then said something to the effect of "Cryptic is a big fan of user generated content if that tells you anything". Later in that same chat he said he would like for players to be able to create their own stories for the holodeck.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kurama0900 wrote: »
    Cryptic's well known (Well, at least from their project City of Heroes) to add in player-created content to their game(s). Champions has yet to receive this, but I don't doubt that it's planned. Normally, it includes creating your own missions that function like the ones already put in by Cryptic.

    Do the content creators submit their creations to Cryptic for approval for it to show up in game? I ask because the game is so centralized server-wise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kirkfat wrote: »
    This is really interesting to me, since I've enjoyed creating game content for other games. How much freedom does a user have with CoH for example in creating unique storylines, sets, playable atmospheres, etc.

    Or, is it very pre-fab and limited. From you post, it sounds like users write the dialogue.

    How to other players find those stories?

    Is there an user-generated PvP content? Could I create an amok time set for PvP battle or something like that?

    With AE, no user-generated PVP.

    Pretty much, you pick a tileset, and select the map layout, the game handles NPC spawn locations and such. You can create custom advesaries and junk. You set the objectives of the mission [escort, defeat boss, defeat all, Use x items, etc]. The user has a bit of freedom, but at the same time, alot of it is restricted to prevent abuse. You can't explicitly state where you want the objectives to be located [randomly placed], so that's kind of frustrating.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Thanks for the info. It sounds pretty restrictive and limited, but still promising and fun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sounds interesting indeed. I hope they decide to let us have it, and I hope it's not TOO limiting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    AE effectively killed CoH.

    it was VERY easily exploited....

    people were leveling to 50 in a few hours.....


    finally nobody was playing the game exept "farming boss Ritki" in AE missions.

    seriously...it was ugly.


    I dont really see STO going that route....unless they want thier game to get a cancer.


    there are just too many variables, and possible exploits with user created content.


    .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    reiella wrote: »
    And as a point of clarity here, that I prolly should have mentioned with my earlier post. Architect was added under the Paragon Studios label, not really anything to do with Cryptic at all. It is a very good idea though, especially for heavily instanced games.

    Ah, that was Paragon Studios?

    My apologies.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    AE effectively killed CoH.

    it was VERY easily exploited....

    people were leveling to 50 in a few hours.....


    finally nobody was playing the game exept "farming boss Ritki" in AE missions.

    seriously...it was ugly.


    I dont really see STO going that route....unless they want thier game to get a cancer.


    there are just too many variables, and possible exploits with user created content.


    .

    Is there not an easy fix for this like restricting the amount of loot or the skill points, or making the amounts proportional to the number of enemies, difficulties, objectives, etc?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Im hoping that they introduce holodecks as a global instance, where you can select from a list of pre-generated 'programs' and also have a holodeck editing program which players can use to create any holodeck program to be used only on the holodeck.

    Basically would allow players to create say, wolf 359 re-enactments and such.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kitsunami wrote: »
    Im hoping that they introduce holodecks as a global instance, where you can select from a list of pre-generated 'programs' and also have a holodeck editing program which players can use to create any holodeck program to be used only on the holodeck.

    Basically would allow players to create say, wolf 359 re-enactments and such.

    That's what Craig seemed to suggest they would be doing in that dev chat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    That's what Craig seemed to suggest they would be doing in that dev chat.

    It's a neat idea, and having it in the holodeck expands the possibilities. Perhaps ground combat could include some of the futuristic and historical locations explored in the shows. Any up for playing as a Klingon merry man or a fire fight in 1930s chicago?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kirkfat wrote: »
    Is there not an easy fix for this like restricting the amount of loot or the skill points, or making the amounts proportional to the number of enemies, difficulties, objectives, etc?

    Paragon Studios addressed the problem with Architect (AE) farming in two ways:

    First, they drastically reduced rewards from AE missions. They even went to the extent of locking out characters who levelled through AE exploits. Now, obviously this was very unpopular.

    So Paragon launched a 'charm offensive' with their AE system. They brought in a slew of 'guest authors' - celebrity novelists, cartoonists, etc, to create featured story arcs. They elevated more player-created arcs to 'Dev's Choice' status. They held story-writing competitions.

    These days, it's mostly a success. But it's still unique in the MMO industry. The storyteller system that SWG has isn't quite as elaborate or formalised as this.

    By and large, most MMOs don't really focus much on player-generated content. City of Heroes likes to bill their Architect system as the way forward, a revolutionary new thing.

    But I don't believe it's been quite as big as they'd like to claim. Player-generated content can't replace the demand for new developer-generated world areas and more elaborate scenarios. The CoH folks know this; they're releasing a new box expansion in a couple months.

    The other question is: will Cryptic Studios will learn anything from Paragon Studios? This is tricky. Bear in mind Paragon is essentially an offshoot of Cryptic - all the senior employees at Paragon used to work for Cryptic. When City of Heroes was sold to NCsoft, these folks moved over to start a new studio under NC.

    The devs over at Paragon have consistently said stuff like...hey, we play Champions and STO ourselves, and there's certain features in Cryptic's new games we like.

    No Cryptic developer has ever said the same about Paragon's recent innovations.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I would looooove a 'level-editor' of some sort. Holodecks... planets I've discovered.... anything.
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